Apple taking a survey, instead of simply talking to their customers indicates that Steve has truly left the building. As I suspected, AppleTV was never a concept that Jobs bought into and now that he's out of the picture, every division of Apple will be taking their product in whatever direction THEY want.
I think you're reading too much into it.
When does Apple talk to their customers? What do you mean by that? I thought Apple just made what they wanted to make, they don't seem to take much outside input in designing a product.
Is doing a survey necessarily a bad thing?
Quote:
This is the beginning of the end. If I'm lucky enough to see AAPL rise again to the neighborhood of $160-$180, I'm dumping everything.
I think the warning signs would come well before then.
Apple taking a survey, instead of simply talking to their customers indicates that Steve has truly left the building. As I suspected, AppleTV was never a concept that Jobs bought into and now that he's out of the picture, every division of Apple will be taking their product in whatever direction THEY want.
This is the beginning of the end. If I'm lucky enough to see AAPL rise again to the neighborhood of $160-$180, I'm dumping everything.
Dude what the heck are you talking about?! i guess you didn't read the part where it says clearly that sales of the device are up 3x. Steve might be gone but he's still running the show. My opinion is that they first thought of the device as a hobby but now they can see clearly that if they sold more than expected then this is something that people are willing to spend money in it & they want peoples input on it
Really folks doesn't Apple realize that success with Apple TV will come from people that currently don't own an Apple TV. I fail to see how questioning current users will get them focused on what is missing from Apple TV.
The way I look at it is that the number one issue is storage space for your video. The current Apple TV simply doesn't have enough built in and doesn't have a clean way to expand externally. So what we need here is a far bigger internal capacity and Firewire to external storage.
Closely related is purchase security from ITunes. Let's face it these files take up huge space and are a pain to backup properly. Your iTunes account ought to also be your backup incase the HD goes belly up.
I'm not a current Apple TV owner but consider myself to be a potential customer and use iTunes slot on my MBP. This some of the ideas outlined here and this this point, if I'm going to have an online device I want it to have good access to the web in general. That means a first class web browser, Java and even Mail. Given such access to web video that isn't as mainstream as YouTube ought to be a snap. This ought to be a lesson learned from iPhone in that the YouTube app is very nice but it is a real pain that iPhone Safari can't acccess some of the better sites out there offerring video over the web.
BlueTooth is needed for I/O.
I'd love to see a VoIP app on Apple TV.
It is a bit silly not to have a DVD player in at least one model of the machine.
Oh incase you are wondering about mail on Apple TV it is because of the rise in Video attachments. I wouldn't expect to use an Apple TV for mail exclusively but many times an attachment might be worth looking at on the big screen.
Related to the above support the display of PowerPoint and other presentation programs data files.
Come up with a service to support comics. Seriously this to replace newspapers.
In any event there is a lot of potential in ATV but they need to address the storage issue first and then look at some of the other things here as enhancements.
Add an inexpensive subscription plan ($20 or less a month) and I'm there.
.
AGREED! More than anything, my top feature would be a competitive subscription plan to rent movies..
It would have to be priced similarly to Netflix and Blockbuster Online services.
I like the idea of renting from ATV and I rented a few titles when the service launched, but $4.99 a pop for HD? We watch way too many movies to pay that price.
If Apple allows the playing of ripped dvd structures over a network, specifically it allows me to play ripped dvds from my windows home server for MyMovies, i buy four of them. It's that simple.
I 2nd that. I wouldn't even care if they left it in video_ts format (ie, not trancoded into another format). Hard drives a relatively cheap, so the extra space won't be a big deal. And a wireless network (n variety) has no problem streaming the higher bandwidth MPEG-2 video over the network to play a file from another computer in FrontRow or DVD Player.
More likely, if any DVD solution is developed, the studios would require some form of protection. So more likely would be that iTunes could rip and encode the main feature of a DVD into an AppleTV compatible H.264 format and wrap it in FairPlay. Of course, the studios would prefer we just purchase our movies a 2nd time, but that's BS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nace33
The AppleTv is a great device. I really like mine. However, the device fails miserably when it comes to TV. $1.99 is just too much money. I don't really care if I get to keep it, it just takes up a bunch of space.
I would much prefer a streaming service whether it be subscription or a'la carte (for less than $1.99). Basically, if TV shows were set up like the podcast section of iTunes, with hulu type ads, I would be more than happy with the device.
I agree. The price for video purchases is too high. Movie rental prices are reasonable, but why would I want to own a TV episode? The only reason I'd buy one was because I missed it on broadcast. If I wanted a whole season, I'd by the disc. 99 cent episode rentals seems reasonable.
I also subscribe to several video podcasts (NBC Nightly News, Meet the Press, etc) which do exactly what your propose. There are a couple of advertisements at the beginning and end (not enough to bother fast-forwarding through), and occassionally in the middle. I never understood why networks don't simply use that mechanism to distribute their shows. They don't even need Apple's buy-in to do it, and they can still use iTunes to list their shows and let people subscribe from there. Much cheaper than building your own distributions system.
The way I look at it is that the number one issue is storage space for your video. The current Apple TV simply doesn't have enough built in and doesn't have a clean way to expand externally. So what we need here is a far bigger internal capacity and Firewire to external storage.
Dave
For me, storage has never been an issue.. Apple TV streams flawlessly... The solution is to add a dedicated drive for ATV media to your computer. I have a 1TB drive attached to my Mac and stream everything to ATV. The onboard storage is only used for rental downloads and 40gb is plenty sufficient for that..
The day the AppleTV was launched and I saw there was a USB port I thought, "web cam!".
Imagine if they leveraged iChat and iSight and turned your HDTV into a video conferencing system via AppleTV. It would be the must-have Christmas present for anyone with grandkids!
I don't have much faith in Blu-ray doing anything beneficial for consumers beyond taking more out of their wallet. The BD consortium hasn't made a peep about the ability to do "Managed Copies" which is exactly what you ask. A way to have a more flexible digital copy of a movie.
So the real problem with the Apple TV is price and dealing with the shenanigans that studios cause willfully. IMO of course.
I believe I recall you being one of the die hard supporters of HD DVD so I really can't put much stock in your current Blu-Ray opinions. My apologies if I remember that bit incorrectly.
Regardless, what beneficial things does Blu-Ray offer consumers? How about better audio and video quality then what downloads can provide (and will be able to provide for the foreseeable future, especially in the U.S.)?
I guess I don't understand the appeal of managed/digital copies either. I've experimented using Handbrake on a couple of DVDs using my 2.16GHz C2D iMac and it takes nearly as long as it would to just watch the movie. Having all my movies available on demand has a definite geek appeal to me, but for the literal months it would take to rip my collection, my time seems like it would be better spend simply putting the disc in the DVD player instead. I guess as you hinted, it might have more appeal if you had kids that were prone to messing up the discs. But at the same time, I'd have to ask why you let them mess with them in the first place. Moving into the Blu-Ray realm, having digital copies just seems a bit impractical. Blu-Ray quality would quickly eat up hard drive space.
I also can't imagine the studios allowing the ripping of DVDs or Blu-Rays. There's already issues with the Netflix rip/copy and return crowd pirating content; I know 3 people who are big into that. I can't imagine the studios would want to exacerbate that problem by having it built into a program as widely known and used as iTunes. The only way I could see it being allowed is the way digital copies work today, with the inclusion of a one-time use code, though I guess once it was linked to your iTunes account they could allow you re-rip it in the future.
The day the AppleTV was launched and I saw there was a USB port I thought, "web cam!".
Imagine if they leveraged iChat and iSight and turned your HDTV into a video conferencing system via AppleTV. It would be the must-have Christmas present for anyone with grandkids!
Then I guess if you know anyone with grandkids you should pick them up a PS3 and a Playstation Eye this Christmas since it can do video chats and everything the AppleTV can do and more...I fear I risk sounding like a Sony fanboy, but the PS3 is already a much more capable media device than the AppleTV (and doesn't require hacks to unlock those abilities).
I use my ATV as my movie on demand device. I have over 200 dvds. I've ripped them all and stored them on my drobo. My IMAC is the media center for movies, music and pictures. I watch all the movies on my tv. When I travel, I load about 60 gigs of movies on the atv harddrive and take it with me. Free video on demand in hotels. The problem I have is it won't play WMA files. For this I use my xbox 360, which by the way also see my itunes movie library through connect 360.
Also, you can view your ripped dvds with itunes share to any mac or pc in the house running itunes. Over wifi or hardwire. No ATV required.
Rightfully so, the Apple TV should change the television industry.
1) Internet Television - Subscription service that rivals that of DirecTV, Dish and cable.
I'd like to elaborate a bit on this... Most people have Internet in their homes today and if Apple could find a way to partner with TV Studios to broadcast TV shows as other companies do today, now through the Internet, it would truly be something different than everyone else. Technologically, I do not know how feasible this would be. Apple, now broadcasting the programming, could possibly create a way to place unique commercials according to ones interests during the initial setup, borrowing a bit from Genius in iTunes. Furthermore, Apple could allow programs to be recorded easily through iPhone or iPod Touch on WiFi. In addition, since the broadcasting would be coming from the internet there would be a great number of cables removed from the living room, adding to the simple and easy to use Apple experience.
2) DVR - Don't allow transfers, but option to purchase on iTunes
3) Internet Browsing - Safari on TV
4) App Store - Similar to iPhone
5) New UI - to accommodate Apps
All in all, iTunes combined with the normal television programing we can't live without, and the addition of an App Store, would create a uniquely positioned product that would rival all other companies. Perhaps with this Apple TV could find its central role in the living room.
Really, it is pretty cool to have what essentially is an iPod for my big screen TV - easily streaming music from iTunes, family slide shows from iPhoto and home videos. It's fast and easy for those task. But that really isn't a complete product.
Now one certainly can complain about renting from iTunes....rental prices are probably a bit too high and more painfully, the window in which you can watch the rented video is ridiculously short. But, that isn't Apples fault - that's Hollywood and their licensing rules to Apple, Microsoft, Amazon and others.
But what I really want out of my Apple TV and what would make it amazing is :
-- Web video. Let me use this as a player for Hulu, Joost and whatever other amazing web video service pops up on the horizon.
-- DVR. Let me plug this in to my CATV or SATV stream for TiVo like recording.
-- UXP. Give the ATV the sort of user experience that Apple products are known for.
If ATV could do the above - it would go from being the singular, seldom used box that streams my digital life to a big screen TV to the focus of my home digital entertainment system with 4 heavily used boxes throughout my home - each TV with an ATV.
I'd love to see Apple put some real focus on this product and make the ATV the product that it can be.
AppleTV is AWESOME!... Once you install Boxee and dump the ATV stuff (it's still accesible, you get a boot loader at startup-this will later change but for now your dual booting).
No charge, FREE, 1000's of TV shows, movies, net-based TV, etc... New season of house, office (wasn't that the selling point on ATV?) as well as all the BBC shows, Hulu, Joost, and NETFLIX integration.
Install Boxee, dump ATV.
Note to Apple: Buy Boxee, buy it all or kiss AppleTV goodbye... There is a set-top Boxee unit in the works using an Asus EeePC nettop unit as the base. It works better than AppleTV to be honest and comes with a Blu-Ray/DVD drive. Est MSRP is $379.
For those who are NOT Boxee members hit me BC with your email addy, I'll invite you. It'll be public later this year. Installing on the ATV is NOT HARD at all! It rocks on the Mac and Ubuntu as well.
This is basically what I agree with. Apple TV has never been a well-thought out product from the beginning. Asking people what they want instead of simply using common sense and engineering it to be the best they could make it has been why Jobs never got behind this product. It wasn't "his" idea, so it's languished instead of flourished.
Take a survey? Jobs always said (I'm paraphrasing) 'people don't know what they want until you give it to them'....
Apple should kill it if they can't turn it into a performer that competes on it's own merits, otherwise it will very quickly turn into a committee-designed Microsoft-like monstrosity.
Allowing streaming for a monthly fee or allow iTunes to hold a certain number of titles at a given time would make ATV a killer. I don't want Netflix streaming--it is awful. Have Apple come up with their own. You can outside service as well--Hulu, etc. How about fandango integration for those who still go to the movies?
Comments
Apple taking a survey, instead of simply talking to their customers indicates that Steve has truly left the building. As I suspected, AppleTV was never a concept that Jobs bought into and now that he's out of the picture, every division of Apple will be taking their product in whatever direction THEY want.
I think you're reading too much into it.
When does Apple talk to their customers? What do you mean by that? I thought Apple just made what they wanted to make, they don't seem to take much outside input in designing a product.
Is doing a survey necessarily a bad thing?
This is the beginning of the end. If I'm lucky enough to see AAPL rise again to the neighborhood of $160-$180, I'm dumping everything.
I think the warning signs would come well before then.
Apple taking a survey, instead of simply talking to their customers indicates that Steve has truly left the building. As I suspected, AppleTV was never a concept that Jobs bought into and now that he's out of the picture, every division of Apple will be taking their product in whatever direction THEY want.
This is the beginning of the end. If I'm lucky enough to see AAPL rise again to the neighborhood of $160-$180, I'm dumping everything.
Dude what the heck are you talking about?! i guess you didn't read the part where it says clearly that sales of the device are up 3x. Steve might be gone but he's still running the show. My opinion is that they first thought of the device as a hobby but now they can see clearly that if they sold more than expected then this is something that people are willing to spend money in it & they want peoples input on it
The way I look at it is that the number one issue is storage space for your video. The current Apple TV simply doesn't have enough built in and doesn't have a clean way to expand externally. So what we need here is a far bigger internal capacity and Firewire to external storage.
Closely related is purchase security from ITunes. Let's face it these files take up huge space and are a pain to backup properly. Your iTunes account ought to also be your backup incase the HD goes belly up.
I'm not a current Apple TV owner but consider myself to be a potential customer and use iTunes slot on my MBP. This some of the ideas outlined here and this this point, if I'm going to have an online device I want it to have good access to the web in general. That means a first class web browser, Java and even Mail. Given such access to web video that isn't as mainstream as YouTube ought to be a snap. This ought to be a lesson learned from iPhone in that the YouTube app is very nice but it is a real pain that iPhone Safari can't acccess some of the better sites out there offerring video over the web.
BlueTooth is needed for I/O.
I'd love to see a VoIP app on Apple TV.
It is a bit silly not to have a DVD player in at least one model of the machine.
Oh incase you are wondering about mail on Apple TV it is because of the rise in Video attachments. I wouldn't expect to use an Apple TV for mail exclusively but many times an attachment might be worth looking at on the big screen.
Related to the above support the display of PowerPoint and other presentation programs data files.
Come up with a service to support comics. Seriously this to replace newspapers.
In any event there is a lot of potential in ATV but they need to address the storage issue first and then look at some of the other things here as enhancements.
Dave
Add an inexpensive subscription plan ($20 or less a month) and I'm there.
.
AGREED! More than anything, my top feature would be a competitive subscription plan to rent movies..
It would have to be priced similarly to Netflix and Blockbuster Online services.
I like the idea of renting from ATV and I rented a few titles when the service launched, but $4.99 a pop for HD? We watch way too many movies to pay that price.
If Apple allows the playing of ripped dvd structures over a network, specifically it allows me to play ripped dvds from my windows home server for MyMovies, i buy four of them. It's that simple.
I 2nd that. I wouldn't even care if they left it in video_ts format (ie, not trancoded into another format). Hard drives a relatively cheap, so the extra space won't be a big deal. And a wireless network (n variety) has no problem streaming the higher bandwidth MPEG-2 video over the network to play a file from another computer in FrontRow or DVD Player.
More likely, if any DVD solution is developed, the studios would require some form of protection. So more likely would be that iTunes could rip and encode the main feature of a DVD into an AppleTV compatible H.264 format and wrap it in FairPlay. Of course, the studios would prefer we just purchase our movies a 2nd time, but that's BS.
The AppleTv is a great device. I really like mine. However, the device fails miserably when it comes to TV. $1.99 is just too much money. I don't really care if I get to keep it, it just takes up a bunch of space.
I would much prefer a streaming service whether it be subscription or a'la carte (for less than $1.99). Basically, if TV shows were set up like the podcast section of iTunes, with hulu type ads, I would be more than happy with the device.
I agree. The price for video purchases is too high. Movie rental prices are reasonable, but why would I want to own a TV episode? The only reason I'd buy one was because I missed it on broadcast. If I wanted a whole season, I'd by the disc. 99 cent episode rentals seems reasonable.
I also subscribe to several video podcasts (NBC Nightly News, Meet the Press, etc) which do exactly what your propose. There are a couple of advertisements at the beginning and end (not enough to bother fast-forwarding through), and occassionally in the middle. I never understood why networks don't simply use that mechanism to distribute their shows. They don't even need Apple's buy-in to do it, and they can still use iTunes to list their shows and let people subscribe from there. Much cheaper than building your own distributions system.
The way I look at it is that the number one issue is storage space for your video. The current Apple TV simply doesn't have enough built in and doesn't have a clean way to expand externally. So what we need here is a far bigger internal capacity and Firewire to external storage.
Dave
For me, storage has never been an issue.. Apple TV streams flawlessly... The solution is to add a dedicated drive for ATV media to your computer. I have a 1TB drive attached to my Mac and stream everything to ATV. The onboard storage is only used for rental downloads and 40gb is plenty sufficient for that..
I'd love to see a VoIP app on Apple TV.
The day the AppleTV was launched and I saw there was a USB port I thought, "web cam!".
Imagine if they leveraged iChat and iSight and turned your HDTV into a video conferencing system via AppleTV. It would be the must-have Christmas present for anyone with grandkids!
I don't have much faith in Blu-ray doing anything beneficial for consumers beyond taking more out of their wallet. The BD consortium hasn't made a peep about the ability to do "Managed Copies" which is exactly what you ask. A way to have a more flexible digital copy of a movie.
So the real problem with the Apple TV is price and dealing with the shenanigans that studios cause willfully. IMO of course.
I believe I recall you being one of the die hard supporters of HD DVD so I really can't put much stock in your current Blu-Ray opinions. My apologies if I remember that bit incorrectly.
Regardless, what beneficial things does Blu-Ray offer consumers? How about better audio and video quality then what downloads can provide (and will be able to provide for the foreseeable future, especially in the U.S.)?
I guess I don't understand the appeal of managed/digital copies either. I've experimented using Handbrake on a couple of DVDs using my 2.16GHz C2D iMac and it takes nearly as long as it would to just watch the movie. Having all my movies available on demand has a definite geek appeal to me, but for the literal months it would take to rip my collection, my time seems like it would be better spend simply putting the disc in the DVD player instead. I guess as you hinted, it might have more appeal if you had kids that were prone to messing up the discs. But at the same time, I'd have to ask why you let them mess with them in the first place. Moving into the Blu-Ray realm, having digital copies just seems a bit impractical. Blu-Ray quality would quickly eat up hard drive space.
I also can't imagine the studios allowing the ripping of DVDs or Blu-Rays. There's already issues with the Netflix rip/copy and return crowd pirating content; I know 3 people who are big into that. I can't imagine the studios would want to exacerbate that problem by having it built into a program as widely known and used as iTunes. The only way I could see it being allowed is the way digital copies work today, with the inclusion of a one-time use code, though I guess once it was linked to your iTunes account they could allow you re-rip it in the future.
The day the AppleTV was launched and I saw there was a USB port I thought, "web cam!".
Imagine if they leveraged iChat and iSight and turned your HDTV into a video conferencing system via AppleTV. It would be the must-have Christmas present for anyone with grandkids!
Then I guess if you know anyone with grandkids you should pick them up a PS3 and a Playstation Eye this Christmas since it can do video chats and everything the AppleTV can do and more...I fear I risk sounding like a Sony fanboy, but the PS3 is already a much more capable media device than the AppleTV (and doesn't require hacks to unlock those abilities).
Also, you can view your ripped dvds with itunes share to any mac or pc in the house running itunes. Over wifi or hardwire. No ATV required.
The Macintosh changed the computer industry.
The iPod changed the music industry.
The iPhone is changing the mobile industry.
Rightfully so, the Apple TV should change the television industry.
1) Internet Television - Subscription service that rivals that of DirecTV, Dish and cable.
I'd like to elaborate a bit on this... Most people have Internet in their homes today and if Apple could find a way to partner with TV Studios to broadcast TV shows as other companies do today, now through the Internet, it would truly be something different than everyone else. Technologically, I do not know how feasible this would be. Apple, now broadcasting the programming, could possibly create a way to place unique commercials according to ones interests during the initial setup, borrowing a bit from Genius in iTunes. Furthermore, Apple could allow programs to be recorded easily through iPhone or iPod Touch on WiFi. In addition, since the broadcasting would be coming from the internet there would be a great number of cables removed from the living room, adding to the simple and easy to use Apple experience.
2) DVR - Don't allow transfers, but option to purchase on iTunes
3) Internet Browsing - Safari on TV
4) App Store - Similar to iPhone
5) New UI - to accommodate Apps
All in all, iTunes combined with the normal television programing we can't live without, and the addition of an App Store, would create a uniquely positioned product that would rival all other companies. Perhaps with this Apple TV could find its central role in the living room.
Apple TV Survey
Thank you for your time and participation. Our survey is currently closed, but we appreciate your willingness to participate in our survey.
Really, it is pretty cool to have what essentially is an iPod for my big screen TV - easily streaming music from iTunes, family slide shows from iPhoto and home videos. It's fast and easy for those task. But that really isn't a complete product.
Now one certainly can complain about renting from iTunes....rental prices are probably a bit too high and more painfully, the window in which you can watch the rented video is ridiculously short. But, that isn't Apples fault - that's Hollywood and their licensing rules to Apple, Microsoft, Amazon and others.
But what I really want out of my Apple TV and what would make it amazing is :
-- Web video. Let me use this as a player for Hulu, Joost and whatever other amazing web video service pops up on the horizon.
-- DVR. Let me plug this in to my CATV or SATV stream for TiVo like recording.
-- UXP. Give the ATV the sort of user experience that Apple products are known for.
If ATV could do the above - it would go from being the singular, seldom used box that streams my digital life to a big screen TV to the focus of my home digital entertainment system with 4 heavily used boxes throughout my home - each TV with an ATV.
I'd love to see Apple put some real focus on this product and make the ATV the product that it can be.
No charge, FREE, 1000's of TV shows, movies, net-based TV, etc... New season of house, office (wasn't that the selling point on ATV?) as well as all the BBC shows, Hulu, Joost, and NETFLIX integration.
Install Boxee, dump ATV.
Note to Apple: Buy Boxee, buy it all or kiss AppleTV goodbye... There is a set-top Boxee unit in the works using an Asus EeePC nettop unit as the base. It works better than AppleTV to be honest and comes with a Blu-Ray/DVD drive. Est MSRP is $379.
For those who are NOT Boxee members hit me BC with your email addy, I'll invite you. It'll be public later this year. Installing on the ATV is NOT HARD at all! It rocks on the Mac and Ubuntu as well.
How about a survey for the 99.9999% who didn't buy an Apple TV for one reason or another. Wouldn't that make more sense?
This Survey does nothing for Apple. It's completely ridiculous.
I'd also like to see the question on there:
Have you hacked your Apple TV so it actually functions like a useful devise?
The Apple TV reminds me of this...
http://www.theonion.com/content/vide...tupid_piece_of
This is one of the dumbest surveys i've ever seen.
How about a survey for the 99.9999% who didn't buy an Apple TV for one reason or another. Wouldn't that make more sense?
This Survey does nothing for Apple. It's completely ridiculous.
I'd also like to see the question on there:
Have you hacked your Apple TV so it actually functions like a useful devise?
The Apple TV reminds me of this...
http://www.theonion.com/content/vide...tupid_piece_of
This is basically what I agree with. Apple TV has never been a well-thought out product from the beginning. Asking people what they want instead of simply using common sense and engineering it to be the best they could make it has been why Jobs never got behind this product. It wasn't "his" idea, so it's languished instead of flourished.
Take a survey? Jobs always said (I'm paraphrasing) 'people don't know what they want until you give it to them'....
Apple should kill it if they can't turn it into a performer that competes on it's own merits, otherwise it will very quickly turn into a committee-designed Microsoft-like monstrosity.