... I doubt the "windows move fine" for you...if you're sending the cursor up to the title bar to grab it and move the window and you hit a grab-handle, you'll be pulling a tab out instead of moving the window. ...
Ah, wasn't sure what you were talking about at first really. I can see if you had bazillions of tabs open then that might be an issue.
Edit: It seems that the tab you are viewing always maintains a large size even as the others shrink in tune with how many tabs are added, so the target for moving the window is always large anyway. Seems like a win-win to me.
On the other hand, there are at least three posts already about how bad it is to have to pick a tiny target for moving the tab instead of just hitting the whole tab as before, so there are two mutually exclusive needs there, now that there is only one bar for both functions. Well have to see who yells the loudest I guess.
My take on it so far after now ten minutes or so is that functionally I love it already and won't be un-installing. My biggest negative so far is that it has a serious case of the "uglies," which is the main reason I don't use FireFox.
Aesthetics is really important to me in something I use on a daily basis for many hours at a time and the super high contrast, super-busy, overly sculpted, fussy glob of stuff at the top of the screen is kind of bugging me. With everything mushed together so close in the top 1.5 centimetres of the display, which is also right next to the OS menu bar, it all just starts to look garish. Three fonts in three different styles? Maybe I'll get used to it though. Not sure at the moment.
It looks like Apple took some interface cues from Chrome, but they didn't pull off the tabs on top interface right. Chrome's tabs can be dragged by clicking on them anywhere, but they leave a decent amount of room above them to drag the whole window if desired. That is a much better approach than having to hunt for a tiny drag area on each tab. Otherwise, it's a major improvement over Safari 3 and even on Chrome in some areas. The Top Sites previews are live (instead of saved bitmaps), and they are larger. The search bar can also be toggled between Google and Yahoo, although I'm not sure if more search providers can be added to the list. Lastly, the native Windows UI is much appreciated. OS X's UI is nice, but it sticks out like a sore thumb on other systems. I hope iTunes follows suit.
Hey guys, is it me or do u guys feel that safari's active window colour shade is a bit less grey than the overall system? Cos now its hard to distinguish which window is the open one..
No, it looks the same to me. The titlebar is just bigger so it's probably an optical illusion. The windows version of safari is not using any custom widgets this time. It respects whatever Windows theme you happen to be using.
EDIT: Yep, definitely the same. I did a screen grab and compared the colors in a graphics program.
I'm worried that Cover Flow is the beginning of unnecessary feature bloat. Did people really ask for that?
It is a bloat on Windows. On Leopard and better, the operating system has the functionality built-in so it is just a question of using it in the application.
I'm worried that Cover Flow is the beginning of unnecessary feature bloat. Did people really ask for that?
Yeah, they sort of did. Apple wants to make Cover Flow an easy and fast way to find your information. Once you think about it would you really want to try to remember your bookmarks by just looking at text or would you rather have a visual aid (Cover Flow) help you find it. It could just be me. But, I remember things better if I have a picture rather than simple text...
Quote:
Originally Posted by talksense101
It is a bloat on Windows. On Leopard and better, the operating system has the functionality built-in so it is just a question of using it in the application.
Haha.. I could not agree more. Cover Flow in Windows will stick out. Just go ahead windows and put the usual foldars upon folders that I would have to go through to find just one thing. And you Windows fan boys, don't you tell me its not like that. I use to have a windows machine and it really was a pain to find one particular thing.
I doubt the "windows move fine" for you...if you're sending the cursor up to the title bar to grab it and move the window and you hit a grab-handle, you'll be pulling a tab out instead of moving the window. Sure, it's still possible to move the window but it now becomes more difficult as the number of tabs grow since it's now a game of precision.
Uh, I seriously doubt you're having any of the problems you claim to be having. It's clearly obvious that you just like to complain. I have a window with 12 tabs open... and I can grab a title bar and move the window around without ANY problems. I can grab the "move" widget, just fine as well. You shouldn't be so damned rude and ignorant to think that your experience is the same EVERYONE else is having.
Having said all of that... I do prefer the old method for tabs as well, but for aesthetic reasons, not because it is more or less functional and intuitive. Took me all of 30 seconds to get used to the new method.
If I install Safari 4 does it replace Safari 3 or does it leave it in place?
It replaces it. It does come with an uninstaller, and you can still download and install Safari 3. So theoretically you can revert if you don't like the beta, though I haven't tried that myself.
Uh, I seriously doubt you're having any of the problems you claim to be having. It's clearly obvious that you just like to complain. I have a window with 12 tabs open... and I can grab a title bar and move the window around without ANY problems. I can grab the "move" widget, just fine as well. You shouldn't be so damned rude and ignorant to think that your experience is the same EVERYONE else is having.
Having said all of that... I do prefer the old method for tabs as well, but for aesthetic reasons, not because it is more or less functional and intuitive. Took me all of 30 seconds to get used to the new method.
What I'd like to know is whether Apple has taken care of the horrendous memory leaks (Mac version) that gradually degrade Safari's performance with extended use, and that require a relaunch and sometimes a reboot to fix.
I'm worried that Cover Flow is the beginning of unnecessary feature bloat. Did people really ask for that?
I don't use Cover Flow in any of the other applications where it appears, but I think it could be really useful in Safari. Just the other day I was trying to find a previous website in my history list and it was nearly impossible, because web page document titles are usually so obtuse. If I'd have been able to see images of the pages I would have been able to find what I was looking for much more quickly.
As for the "tabs on top" feature, I agree that it seems to be a human interface violation. Every window in every application has a title bar and it always works the same way. Now we have a title bar that works differently. I won't judge it until I try it, but I don't think there was a problem with the old tabs. I've taught beginner computer classes and I only met two kinds of computer users: those who use tabs and love them, and those who don't use tabs and can't even comprehend why they would be useful. So if the goal is to expose more people to this feature, well, we'll see if it works.
Yeah, they sort of did. Apple wants to make Cover Flow an easy and fast way to find your information. Once you think about it would you really want to try to remember your bookmarks by just looking at text or would you rather have a visual aid (Cover Flow) help you find it. It could just be me. But, I remember things better if I have a picture rather than simple text...
I'm not going to complain about Cover flow but pictures aren't searchable, and I'm rather curious how it's going to be useful for thousands of history items.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin
Uh, I seriously doubt you're having any of the problems you claim to be having. It's clearly obvious that you just like to complain. I have a window with 12 tabs open... and I can grab a title bar and move the window around without ANY problems. I can grab the "move" widget, just fine as well. You shouldn't be so damned rude and ignorant to think that your experience is the same EVERYONE else is having.
Of course we can work around the UI, but that doesn't seem like the way it should be, does it? Particularly not on an Apple OS.
Does anyone have an example how the Tabs on Top is a better UI than the old tabs?
I'm not going to complain about Cover flow but pictures aren't searchable, and I'm rather curious how it's going to be useful for thousands of history items.
Of course we can work around the UI, but that doesn't seem like the way it should be, does it? Particularly not on an Apple OS.
Does anyone have an example how the Tabs on Top is a better UI than the old tabs?
I'm glad I gain about 15 pixels of webpage screen real estate on my MacBook. Other than that, I prefer the old way, but the new way doesn't really bother me either.
Comments
... I doubt the "windows move fine" for you...if you're sending the cursor up to the title bar to grab it and move the window and you hit a grab-handle, you'll be pulling a tab out instead of moving the window. ...
Ah, wasn't sure what you were talking about at first really. I can see if you had bazillions of tabs open then that might be an issue.
Edit: It seems that the tab you are viewing always maintains a large size even as the others shrink in tune with how many tabs are added, so the target for moving the window is always large anyway. Seems like a win-win to me.
On the other hand, there are at least three posts already about how bad it is to have to pick a tiny target for moving the tab instead of just hitting the whole tab as before, so there are two mutually exclusive needs there, now that there is only one bar for both functions. Well have to see who yells the loudest I guess.
My take on it so far after now ten minutes or so is that functionally I love it already and won't be un-installing. My biggest negative so far is that it has a serious case of the "uglies," which is the main reason I don't use FireFox.
Aesthetics is really important to me in something I use on a daily basis for many hours at a time and the super high contrast, super-busy, overly sculpted, fussy glob of stuff at the top of the screen is kind of bugging me. With everything mushed together so close in the top 1.5 centimetres of the display, which is also right next to the OS menu bar, it all just starts to look garish. Three fonts in three different styles? Maybe I'll get used to it though. Not sure at the moment.
Hey guys, is it me or do u guys feel that safari's active window colour shade is a bit less grey than the overall system? Cos now its hard to distinguish which window is the open one..
No, it looks the same to me. The titlebar is just bigger so it's probably an optical illusion. The windows version of safari is not using any custom widgets this time. It respects whatever Windows theme you happen to be using.
EDIT: Yep, definitely the same. I did a screen grab and compared the colors in a graphics program.
The coverflow usage seems impressive.
I'm going to hop on the beta.
I'm worried that Cover Flow is the beginning of unnecessary feature bloat. Did people really ask for that?
It is a bloat on Windows. On Leopard and better, the operating system has the functionality built-in so it is just a question of using it in the application.
I'm worried that Cover Flow is the beginning of unnecessary feature bloat. Did people really ask for that?
Yeah, they sort of did. Apple wants to make Cover Flow an easy and fast way to find your information. Once you think about it would you really want to try to remember your bookmarks by just looking at text or would you rather have a visual aid (Cover Flow) help you find it. It could just be me. But, I remember things better if I have a picture rather than simple text...
It is a bloat on Windows. On Leopard and better, the operating system has the functionality built-in so it is just a question of using it in the application.
Haha.. I could not agree more. Cover Flow in Windows will stick out. Just go ahead windows and put the usual foldars upon folders that I would have to go through to find just one thing. And you Windows fan boys, don't you tell me its not like that. I use to have a windows machine and it really was a pain to find one particular thing.
How do we reload/refresh a page? Or even stop a page from loading without closing it completely?
It only appears to be at the end of address bar. Apparently they removed the buttons for those functions. It was hard to find though.
I doubt the "windows move fine" for you...if you're sending the cursor up to the title bar to grab it and move the window and you hit a grab-handle, you'll be pulling a tab out instead of moving the window. Sure, it's still possible to move the window but it now becomes more difficult as the number of tabs grow since it's now a game of precision.
Uh, I seriously doubt you're having any of the problems you claim to be having. It's clearly obvious that you just like to complain. I have a window with 12 tabs open... and I can grab a title bar and move the window around without ANY problems. I can grab the "move" widget, just fine as well. You shouldn't be so damned rude and ignorant to think that your experience is the same EVERYONE else is having.
Having said all of that... I do prefer the old method for tabs as well, but for aesthetic reasons, not because it is more or less functional and intuitive. Took me all of 30 seconds to get used to the new method.
If I install Safari 4 does it replace Safari 3 or does it leave it in place?
It replaces it. It does come with an uninstaller, and you can still download and install Safari 3. So theoretically you can revert if you don't like the beta, though I haven't tried that myself.
You don't go redefining basic behavior for fundamental UI widgets such as the title bar on a per-app basis, dammit!
Uh, I seriously doubt you're having any of the problems you claim to be having. It's clearly obvious that you just like to complain. I have a window with 12 tabs open... and I can grab a title bar and move the window around without ANY problems. I can grab the "move" widget, just fine as well. You shouldn't be so damned rude and ignorant to think that your experience is the same EVERYONE else is having.
Having said all of that... I do prefer the old method for tabs as well, but for aesthetic reasons, not because it is more or less functional and intuitive. Took me all of 30 seconds to get used to the new method.
Well fuck you too, pal.
What I'd like to know is whether Apple has taken care of the horrendous memory leaks (Mac version) that gradually degrade Safari's performance with extended use, and that require a relaunch and sometimes a reboot to fix.
I'm worried that Cover Flow is the beginning of unnecessary feature bloat. Did people really ask for that?
I don't use Cover Flow in any of the other applications where it appears, but I think it could be really useful in Safari. Just the other day I was trying to find a previous website in my history list and it was nearly impossible, because web page document titles are usually so obtuse. If I'd have been able to see images of the pages I would have been able to find what I was looking for much more quickly.
As for the "tabs on top" feature, I agree that it seems to be a human interface violation. Every window in every application has a title bar and it always works the same way. Now we have a title bar that works differently. I won't judge it until I try it, but I don't think there was a problem with the old tabs. I've taught beginner computer classes and I only met two kinds of computer users: those who use tabs and love them, and those who don't use tabs and can't even comprehend why they would be useful. So if the goal is to expose more people to this feature, well, we'll see if it works.
Yeah, they sort of did. Apple wants to make Cover Flow an easy and fast way to find your information. Once you think about it would you really want to try to remember your bookmarks by just looking at text or would you rather have a visual aid (Cover Flow) help you find it. It could just be me. But, I remember things better if I have a picture rather than simple text...
I'm not going to complain about Cover flow but pictures aren't searchable, and I'm rather curious how it's going to be useful for thousands of history items.
Uh, I seriously doubt you're having any of the problems you claim to be having. It's clearly obvious that you just like to complain. I have a window with 12 tabs open... and I can grab a title bar and move the window around without ANY problems. I can grab the "move" widget, just fine as well. You shouldn't be so damned rude and ignorant to think that your experience is the same EVERYONE else is having.
Of course we can work around the UI, but that doesn't seem like the way it should be, does it? Particularly not on an Apple OS.
Does anyone have an example how the Tabs on Top is a better UI than the old tabs?
As others have mentioned, I like Chrome's ability to drag and drop and merge and pull out and put back tabs a lot better.
I will also be waiting for plug-ins and the ability to disable them individually rather than all or none
I also liked the ability to close tabs that I'm not currently viewing, can't do that anymore
Where did the "Merge all windows" option go?
As others have mentioned, I like Chrome's ability to drag and drop and merge and pull out and put back tabs a lot better.
I will also be waiting for plug-ins and the ability to disable them individually rather than all or none
Window menu as usual.
I'm happy again, I've found the cure for my ailments. No more complaints from me.
defaults write com.apple.Safari DebugSafari4TabBarIsOnTop -bool NO
I'm not going to complain about Cover flow but pictures aren't searchable, and I'm rather curious how it's going to be useful for thousands of history items.
Of course we can work around the UI, but that doesn't seem like the way it should be, does it? Particularly not on an Apple OS.
Does anyone have an example how the Tabs on Top is a better UI than the old tabs?
I'm glad I gain about 15 pixels of webpage screen real estate on my MacBook. Other than that, I prefer the old way, but the new way doesn't really bother me either.