All I have asked for if for acknowledgement that your experiences allow that others have had different ones.
You seem to be angry that I have had, and know of other,good, experiences in this.
I've stated this time and again. It's pretty simple.
Offended? Yes.
Angry? No.
You came out swinging at sflocal, and seemed determined to make them sound prejudiced, when he or she were stating what they believed to be true regarding their own experiences. JDW jumped in to state their own experiences, and I jumped in when you decided that JDW was an "ass". I think JDW expressed their own frustration with your comments rather well, when they stated that neither of you were "wrong". IMHO, you came back at them rather harshly again.
For my own part, I went back over dozens of your posts, just to see if this was a style, a trend or whatever. For whatever reason, this appears to be the sharpest you have been with anyone for some time. It makes me almost believe that you have a vested interest in China being perceived in a better light than a few of us here have experienced first hand. That's it and that's all.
As you should be able to tell by the number of my posts, I've been a mamber here, and have been posting for quite a while.
It was long after that that I was asked to moderate as well. I've seen few posts where mods don't also enter discussions. Perhaps if I had started out as a mod, it would have been different.
Since you are new here, you don't understand my position on posters. Unlike what you want to think, I bend over backwards to allow free discussions. I've never cut anyone off except for spamming, and over the top language, even while I've been insulted by them. Try that elsewhere.
I acknowledge that you've been around for some time. Otherwise they wouldn't have asked you to moderate. A I stated earlier, the majority of your posts seem fair and balanced - just not so in this case. It's the only reason I jumped in at all. Most of the time I simply don't have the time to post much a all. That's why you see the one-liners... snipes if you will... in my style of posting. I often have little time to write an opus on my position, whatever that position might be, and just stay on the sidelines, casually commenting when the mood (and time) strike me.
But your newbie comment did crack me up. I remember when I lived on some property in western Massachusetts. I lived there for nearly 8 years. When I went in to close out my PO Box (rural route - no home delivery), the Postmaster told me "Too bad. If you had lived here a few more years we would have considered you a neighbor."
I may have only started posting here since Nov '07, but I've been in the Mac community for freaking ever. However, I have noticed lately just how many times people dismiss others here due to their "low" post counts. Not a great way to grow a forum, but it will keep it in the "good ole boys" category.
OK, so now can we go back to discussing the issues with the Radeon 4850? Or do we do the "knowledge" thing?
You came out swinging at sflocal, and seemed determined to make them sound prejudiced, when he or she were stating what they believed to be true regarding their own experiences. JDW jumped in to state their own experiences, and I jumped in when you decided that JDW was an "ass". I think JDW expressed their own frustration with your comments rather well, when they stated that neither of you were "wrong". IMHO, you came back at them rather harshly again.
For my own part, I went back over dozens of your posts, just to see if this was a style, a trend or whatever. For whatever reason, this appears to be the sharpest you have been with anyone for some time. It makes me almost believe that you have a vested interest in China being perceived in a better light than a few of us here have experienced first hand. That's it and that's all.
I said what I did, in response to what seemed to me to be an over the top declaration. It wasn't so much stated as being their experience, as in that their experience gave them a monopoly on knowing the "truth" about ALL of China's production.
I've said over and again, that that's my objection.
So far, not one of you has stated unequivocally that you are not extrapolating you experiences to every area.
That's, as I've said, all I'm asking.
My use of the word "ass", as you might know, was in in response to his calling me one.
I just love how some people seem to get angrier with the one responding than with the one taking the first shot.
If he had called someone else an ass, I would have deleted it, and given him a warning. But since it was to me, my response was milder.
My feelings about China is the same as for anywhere else, I'd like to see truth and fairness in posts.
I acknowledge that you've been around for some time. Otherwise they wouldn't have asked you to moderate. A I stated earlier, the majority of your posts seem fair and balanced - just not so in this case. It's the only reason I jumped in at all. Most of the time I simply don't have the time to post much a all. That's why you see the one-liners... snipes if you will... in my style of posting. I often have little time to write an opus on my position, whatever that position might be, and just stay on the sidelines, casually commenting when the mood (and time) strike me.
But your newbie comment did crack me up. I remember when I lived on some property in western Massachusetts. I lived there for nearly 8 years. When I went in to close out my PO Box (rural route - no home delivery), the Postmaster told me "Too bad. If you had lived here a few more years we would have considered you a neighbor."
I may have only started posting here since Nov '07, but I've been in the Mac community for freaking ever. However, I have noticed lately just how many times people dismiss others here due to their "low" post counts. Not a great way to grow a forum, but it will keep it in the "good ole boys" category.
OK, so now can we go back to discussing the issues with the Radeon 4850? Or do we do the "knowledge" thing?
If many of your posts are short "snipes" as you say, then what do you expect for a response? You know what snipe means, I assume.
I thought my post were the fair and balanced ones here.
But, as you say, let's end this, as I'm getting tired of it.
Posted above see page 3. New iMac arrived yesterday. Froze within 10 minutes.
GOD DAMN IT! A month and a half wait for this???!!!???
Apple support was useless. No 'official' anything. In fact, nothing unofficial either.
I told them I'd return it to my reseller. My reseller is just as pissed.
Wow. Definitely not the way to have to start your day.
Can you keep us posted on the how this gets resolved? Not trying to upset you, mind you, just hoping that you get some sort of resolution to the problem and wouldn't mind sharing it here.
Posted above see page 3. New iMac arrived yesterday. Froze within 10 minutes.
Ouch, sorry to hear that. I FINALLY got mine today and transferred everything over. It's been running all afternoon without a problem so far. Going to leave it on overnight and see how it goes.
Posted above see page 3. New iMac arrived yesterday. Froze within 10 minutes.
GOD DAMN IT! A month and a half wait for this???!!!???
Apple support was useless. No 'official' anything. In fact, nothing unofficial either.
I told them I'd return it to my reseller. My reseller is just as pissed.
We also had to wait 6 weeks for our Mac (direct from Apple) because we ordered it with the graphics card upgrade. Looking at a video on YouTube, before installing anything, it froze. The same day, when we were downloading approved s/w, it froze. It has frozen several times whilst doing various tasks. During 1 case, I called Apple support and they blamed it on the s/w I was trying to install. However, they ran through some basic h/w diagnostic checks which found nothing wrong. It has since frozen again, which prompted us to look on the internet and we found this site.
Our problem is this: do we ask Apple for a replacement? Won't it have the same problem as the current one? Or do we ask for a downgrade with the NVIDIA graphics card?
As a new Mac user, I am becoming disillusioned with our purchase.......
We got a new iMac at work last week, but not with the Radeon card (fortunately). It failed the third day after we got it: fan problem. Our reseller promptly contacted Apple Japan, who said that as it was a customized order they couldn't simply replace it, so they would look into what they could do and call us the next day. It's been three days and no phone call yet. Apple has a big thing on their homepage about "award-winning service"... My reseller is furious.
The reseller will replace it at their own cost (the third machine that they have needed to replace within the first month after purchase for us in under a year) and they are less than pleased. Unfortunately, we are now down a machine during a week when we have a heavy project.
I love Apples, but their quality control, support and service really lag behind their design and function. Don't know if this is primarily an Apple Japan problem or more widespread, but it is irritating.
They are raking in billions of dollars and proudly show that to the world; why can't they use some of that cash to make higher quality machines and then provide better support for the ones that do fail?
If it is a heat issue, probably not. Traditional desktop tower-style computers are just under a lot less thermal stress than the sort of thin, quiet, almost small-form-factor computers Apple makes. They have bigger fans and more room inside for air to circulate.
So you're right that it might point to a software vs hardware problem, but ultimately it is up to Apple's engineers to fix it either way.
With a 130GT, the iMac is a pretty good machine on its own. I don't understand why Apple keeps trying to make into a PowerMac replacement trying to shove high power parts into it that there isn't enough room to cool. For ideology's sake, they keep trying to make it something more than it is or can be. Also with the engineers, they're the best in the industry, but they are also subservient to the design team. Sometime even they have a hard time putting the desired amount of computer into the space Ive gives them.
With a 130GT, the iMac is a pretty good machine on its own. I don't understand why Apple keeps trying to make into a PowerMac replacement trying to shove high power parts into it that there isn't enough room to cool. For ideology's sake, they keep trying to make it something more than it is or can be. Also with the engineers, they're the best in the industry, but they are also subservient to the design team. Sometime even they have a hard time putting the desired amount of computer into the space Ive gives them.
People are demanding better GPU's, so they keep putting them in.
But I think it's a mistake to assume that it's a heat issue. We don't know that, despite people here stating that it is.
Yes I agree its not heat related because it freezes at random times and often when its doing minor tasks that my other PCs have no bother with.
Also, I'm seeing reports elsewhere that it is freezing on new machines after ten minutes of browsing, not exactly enough time to heat up, or a heavy duty GPU stressing activity.
We also had to wait 6 weeks for our Mac (direct from Apple) because we ordered it with the graphics card upgrade. Looking at a video on YouTube, before installing anything, it froze. The same day, when we were downloading approved s/w, it froze. It has frozen several times whilst doing various tasks. During 1 case, I called Apple support and they blamed it on the s/w I was trying to install. However, they ran through some basic h/w diagnostic checks which found nothing wrong. It has since frozen again, which prompted us to look on the internet and we found this site.
Our problem is this: do we ask Apple for a replacement? Won't it have the same problem as the current one? Or do we ask for a downgrade with the NVIDIA graphics card?
As a new Mac user, I am becoming disillusioned with our purchase.......
Take the machine to an Apple store. Set up a Genius Bar appointment.
You're more likely to get the issue resolved this way.
I've had my new iMac 2.93 Ghz, ATI 4850 for about 3 days now, and have had it lock up each day so far. I haven't been able to really narrow it down to anything in particular. The first day I was watching a video on Hulu, seconds day a video on YouTube and today it was random while messing with songs in iTunes and MusicBrainz. It will lock up and just hear the music repeat the same 1 second sound bit. I obviously then have to hold the power down and reboot..... starting to get pretty annoying.
I read on another forum about something with monitoring tools using SMART, but only thin I could think of was iStat Menu. Anyone else have any suggestions? Should I hold off on calling Apple until 10.5.7 comes out?
I've had my new iMac 2.93 Ghz, ATI 4850 for about 3 days now, and have had it lock up each day so far. I haven't been able to really narrow it down to anything in particular. The first day I was watching a video on Hulu, seconds day a video on YouTube and today it was random while messing with songs in iTunes and MusicBrainz. It will lock up and just hear the music repeat the same 1 second sound bit. I obviously then have to hold the power down and reboot..... starting to get pretty annoying.
I read on another forum about something with monitoring tools using SMART, but only thin I could think of was iStat Menu. Anyone else have any suggestions? Should I hold off on calling Apple until 10.5.7 comes out?
I'm not familiar with iStat Menu, but Smart monitoring tools ( I use two) are just for the monitoring of the status of HDD's. So unless these problems are caused by HDD problems, which is not very likely from what they seem to be, then those tools won't help.
It's possible that having Activity Monitor on, and checking what's happening to the system might help. If there are some signs of unusual behavior right before lock-up, then whatever process is abnormal might be a part of it.
It's like their other system monitoring apps, but these run in the Menu Bar. I find them quite useful. They even have a date/clock replacement for Apple's default that will show a calendar that you view various months and years easily. I find it all much more convenient than accessing Dashboard to get access these functions.
Comments
All I have asked for if for acknowledgement that your experiences allow that others have had different ones.
You seem to be angry that I have had, and know of other,good, experiences in this.
I've stated this time and again. It's pretty simple.
Offended? Yes.
Angry? No.
You came out swinging at sflocal, and seemed determined to make them sound prejudiced, when he or she were stating what they believed to be true regarding their own experiences. JDW jumped in to state their own experiences, and I jumped in when you decided that JDW was an "ass". I think JDW expressed their own frustration with your comments rather well, when they stated that neither of you were "wrong". IMHO, you came back at them rather harshly again.
For my own part, I went back over dozens of your posts, just to see if this was a style, a trend or whatever. For whatever reason, this appears to be the sharpest you have been with anyone for some time. It makes me almost believe that you have a vested interest in China being perceived in a better light than a few of us here have experienced first hand. That's it and that's all.
I know you think that's funny.
Oh for crying out loud. It was a little funny!
As you should be able to tell by the number of my posts, I've been a mamber here, and have been posting for quite a while.
It was long after that that I was asked to moderate as well. I've seen few posts where mods don't also enter discussions. Perhaps if I had started out as a mod, it would have been different.
Since you are new here, you don't understand my position on posters. Unlike what you want to think, I bend over backwards to allow free discussions. I've never cut anyone off except for spamming, and over the top language, even while I've been insulted by them. Try that elsewhere.
I acknowledge that you've been around for some time. Otherwise they wouldn't have asked you to moderate. A I stated earlier, the majority of your posts seem fair and balanced - just not so in this case. It's the only reason I jumped in at all. Most of the time I simply don't have the time to post much a all. That's why you see the one-liners... snipes if you will... in my style of posting. I often have little time to write an opus on my position, whatever that position might be, and just stay on the sidelines, casually commenting when the mood (and time) strike me.
But your newbie comment did crack me up. I remember when I lived on some property in western Massachusetts. I lived there for nearly 8 years. When I went in to close out my PO Box (rural route - no home delivery), the Postmaster told me "Too bad. If you had lived here a few more years we would have considered you a neighbor."
I may have only started posting here since Nov '07, but I've been in the Mac community for freaking ever. However, I have noticed lately just how many times people dismiss others here due to their "low" post counts. Not a great way to grow a forum, but it will keep it in the "good ole boys" category.
OK, so now can we go back to discussing the issues with the Radeon 4850? Or do we do the "knowledge" thing?
Offended? Yes.
Angry? No.
You came out swinging at sflocal, and seemed determined to make them sound prejudiced, when he or she were stating what they believed to be true regarding their own experiences. JDW jumped in to state their own experiences, and I jumped in when you decided that JDW was an "ass". I think JDW expressed their own frustration with your comments rather well, when they stated that neither of you were "wrong". IMHO, you came back at them rather harshly again.
For my own part, I went back over dozens of your posts, just to see if this was a style, a trend or whatever. For whatever reason, this appears to be the sharpest you have been with anyone for some time. It makes me almost believe that you have a vested interest in China being perceived in a better light than a few of us here have experienced first hand. That's it and that's all.
I said what I did, in response to what seemed to me to be an over the top declaration. It wasn't so much stated as being their experience, as in that their experience gave them a monopoly on knowing the "truth" about ALL of China's production.
I've said over and again, that that's my objection.
So far, not one of you has stated unequivocally that you are not extrapolating you experiences to every area.
That's, as I've said, all I'm asking.
My use of the word "ass", as you might know, was in in response to his calling me one.
I just love how some people seem to get angrier with the one responding than with the one taking the first shot.
If he had called someone else an ass, I would have deleted it, and given him a warning. But since it was to me, my response was milder.
My feelings about China is the same as for anywhere else, I'd like to see truth and fairness in posts.
I acknowledge that you've been around for some time. Otherwise they wouldn't have asked you to moderate. A I stated earlier, the majority of your posts seem fair and balanced - just not so in this case. It's the only reason I jumped in at all. Most of the time I simply don't have the time to post much a all. That's why you see the one-liners... snipes if you will... in my style of posting. I often have little time to write an opus on my position, whatever that position might be, and just stay on the sidelines, casually commenting when the mood (and time) strike me.
But your newbie comment did crack me up. I remember when I lived on some property in western Massachusetts. I lived there for nearly 8 years. When I went in to close out my PO Box (rural route - no home delivery), the Postmaster told me "Too bad. If you had lived here a few more years we would have considered you a neighbor."
I may have only started posting here since Nov '07, but I've been in the Mac community for freaking ever. However, I have noticed lately just how many times people dismiss others here due to their "low" post counts. Not a great way to grow a forum, but it will keep it in the "good ole boys" category.
OK, so now can we go back to discussing the issues with the Radeon 4850? Or do we do the "knowledge" thing?
If many of your posts are short "snipes" as you say, then what do you expect for a response? You know what snipe means, I assume.
I thought my post were the fair and balanced ones here.
But, as you say, let's end this, as I'm getting tired of it.
GOD DAMN IT! A month and a half wait for this???!!!???
Apple support was useless. No 'official' anything. In fact, nothing unofficial either.
I told them I'd return it to my reseller. My reseller is just as pissed.
Posted above see page 3. New iMac arrived yesterday. Froze within 10 minutes.
GOD DAMN IT! A month and a half wait for this???!!!???
Apple support was useless. No 'official' anything. In fact, nothing unofficial either.
I told them I'd return it to my reseller. My reseller is just as pissed.
Wow. Definitely not the way to have to start your day.
Can you keep us posted on the how this gets resolved? Not trying to upset you, mind you, just hoping that you get some sort of resolution to the problem and wouldn't mind sharing it here.
Posted above see page 3. New iMac arrived yesterday. Froze within 10 minutes.
Ouch, sorry to hear that. I FINALLY got mine today and transferred everything over. It's been running all afternoon without a problem so far. Going to leave it on overnight and see how it goes.
Posted above see page 3. New iMac arrived yesterday. Froze within 10 minutes.
GOD DAMN IT! A month and a half wait for this???!!!???
Apple support was useless. No 'official' anything. In fact, nothing unofficial either.
I told them I'd return it to my reseller. My reseller is just as pissed.
We also had to wait 6 weeks for our Mac (direct from Apple) because we ordered it with the graphics card upgrade. Looking at a video on YouTube, before installing anything, it froze. The same day, when we were downloading approved s/w, it froze. It has frozen several times whilst doing various tasks. During 1 case, I called Apple support and they blamed it on the s/w I was trying to install. However, they ran through some basic h/w diagnostic checks which found nothing wrong. It has since frozen again, which prompted us to look on the internet and we found this site.
Our problem is this: do we ask Apple for a replacement? Won't it have the same problem as the current one? Or do we ask for a downgrade with the NVIDIA graphics card?
As a new Mac user, I am becoming disillusioned with our purchase.......
The reseller will replace it at their own cost (the third machine that they have needed to replace within the first month after purchase for us in under a year) and they are less than pleased. Unfortunately, we are now down a machine during a week when we have a heavy project.
I love Apples, but their quality control, support and service really lag behind their design and function. Don't know if this is primarily an Apple Japan problem or more widespread, but it is irritating.
They are raking in billions of dollars and proudly show that to the world; why can't they use some of that cash to make higher quality machines and then provide better support for the ones that do fail?
If it is a heat issue, probably not. Traditional desktop tower-style computers are just under a lot less thermal stress than the sort of thin, quiet, almost small-form-factor computers Apple makes. They have bigger fans and more room inside for air to circulate.
So you're right that it might point to a software vs hardware problem, but ultimately it is up to Apple's engineers to fix it either way.
With a 130GT, the iMac is a pretty good machine on its own. I don't understand why Apple keeps trying to make into a PowerMac replacement trying to shove high power parts into it that there isn't enough room to cool. For ideology's sake, they keep trying to make it something more than it is or can be. Also with the engineers, they're the best in the industry, but they are also subservient to the design team. Sometime even they have a hard time putting the desired amount of computer into the space Ive gives them.
With a 130GT, the iMac is a pretty good machine on its own. I don't understand why Apple keeps trying to make into a PowerMac replacement trying to shove high power parts into it that there isn't enough room to cool. For ideology's sake, they keep trying to make it something more than it is or can be. Also with the engineers, they're the best in the industry, but they are also subservient to the design team. Sometime even they have a hard time putting the desired amount of computer into the space Ive gives them.
People are demanding better GPU's, so they keep putting them in.
But I think it's a mistake to assume that it's a heat issue. We don't know that, despite people here stating that it is.
Yes I agree its not heat related because it freezes at random times and often when its doing minor tasks that my other PCs have no bother with.
Also, I'm seeing reports elsewhere that it is freezing on new machines after ten minutes of browsing, not exactly enough time to heat up, or a heavy duty GPU stressing activity.
We also had to wait 6 weeks for our Mac (direct from Apple) because we ordered it with the graphics card upgrade. Looking at a video on YouTube, before installing anything, it froze. The same day, when we were downloading approved s/w, it froze. It has frozen several times whilst doing various tasks. During 1 case, I called Apple support and they blamed it on the s/w I was trying to install. However, they ran through some basic h/w diagnostic checks which found nothing wrong. It has since frozen again, which prompted us to look on the internet and we found this site.
Our problem is this: do we ask Apple for a replacement? Won't it have the same problem as the current one? Or do we ask for a downgrade with the NVIDIA graphics card?
As a new Mac user, I am becoming disillusioned with our purchase.......
Take the machine to an Apple store. Set up a Genius Bar appointment.
You're more likely to get the issue resolved this way.
Thanks for that, I will post back when I get a result.
I read on another forum about something with monitoring tools using SMART, but only thin I could think of was iStat Menu. Anyone else have any suggestions? Should I hold off on calling Apple until 10.5.7 comes out?
I've had my new iMac 2.93 Ghz, ATI 4850 for about 3 days now, and have had it lock up each day so far. I haven't been able to really narrow it down to anything in particular. The first day I was watching a video on Hulu, seconds day a video on YouTube and today it was random while messing with songs in iTunes and MusicBrainz. It will lock up and just hear the music repeat the same 1 second sound bit. I obviously then have to hold the power down and reboot..... starting to get pretty annoying.
I read on another forum about something with monitoring tools using SMART, but only thin I could think of was iStat Menu. Anyone else have any suggestions? Should I hold off on calling Apple until 10.5.7 comes out?
I'm not familiar with iStat Menu, but Smart monitoring tools ( I use two) are just for the monitoring of the status of HDD's. So unless these problems are caused by HDD problems, which is not very likely from what they seem to be, then those tools won't help.
It's possible that having Activity Monitor on, and checking what's happening to the system might help. If there are some signs of unusual behavior right before lock-up, then whatever process is abnormal might be a part of it.
I'm not familiar with iStat Menu...
It's like their other system monitoring apps, but these run in the Menu Bar. I find them quite useful. They even have a date/clock replacement for Apple's default that will show a calendar that you view various months and years easily. I find it all much more convenient than accessing Dashboard to get access these functions.