I think it's cool they can make the camera better through better programming, but I don't think it's cool that they package it up and wait 2 years to attempt to do so. Maybe another 2 years from now they'll allow flash and that'll be just another little incentive not to jump ship when the contract expires.
I wish HTC would take a lesson from Apple and update their camera on the touch pro. It's a decent camera for a phone, but it definitely has much more potential.
This IS just software. People can say it's an artificial limitation, but it could also just be a planned upgrade. There is such thing as a software development life cycle, and some SDLC's last longer than others. Why hold back the release of a good phone because one piece of the software isn't finished?
iPhone 3.0 allows communication through the docking port for third-party apps. If a flash isn't built in to the machine, you can bet there'll be some kind of add-on.
The difference in photo quality looks suspiciously drastic for just a software upgrade. I wouldn't be surprised if most of what the comparison photos are showing is grease on the lense of the iphone running 2.2.1
Night pictures are very realistic. This is exactly how iPhone 3G 2.2.1 does it. Digitally processed, for sure. No one can guarantee, thought, this wasn't done with Photoshop on a desktop computer.
Well the only gripe I have about it is how they release the updates. Wouldn't it be better to release things as they're finished, and not bundle them up as one big release? For all we know this camera enhancement has been finished for the past 4 months, know what I mean? It doesn't matter much now because all that waiting will result in what people have been asking for, but if MMS was done at Christmas, imagine how many Christmas photos could have been sent lol.
But that's all speculation. Each development team could have just been given a deadline and some teams worked feverishly everyday to meet the deadline while others spread their work out and lollygagged because they knew they would be done in time no problem.
Ok, I'm done ranting
It's about priorities. Most people can wait on improvement in features but no one would wait on an unstable apps. Since the 2.0 there were many problems ranging from crashing Safari to crashing 3rd party apps. There is also the needed iPhone SDK improvements. All of this need to be coordinated between many teams and many engineers. Remember the iPhone OS is less than 2 year old, built solely by Apple, and started from almost a scratch. Look how long it took Android to even be used on one device. We need more stable phone first then we need more features.
It was quite clear when taking pictures that there was something wrong with the software as the image quality changes dynamically based on the light intensity. If you put an object on a dark background vs a light background, the iphone automatically corrects the overall image in software and can make the same object appear completely different.
Some color noise removal would have been a nice addition but you can see in the shadows that problem is still there. A Photoshop filter improves this but they could have implemented it directly on the phone.
It's not that simple.
Even D-SLR manufacturers disagree on where to go with built-in noise removal.
If noise could be removed without damaging the image, all would do it as much as possible. But it can't. Every bit of extra noise removal softens the picture further.
When you start with a camera that has low resolution to begin with, it's too much.
Most manufacturers of D-SLRs give a choice of minimal reduction to high reduction.
I'd always rather have no noise reduction in the camera, and decide how much to add, and how to add it, later.
Well the only gripe I have about it is how they release the updates. Wouldn't it be better to release things as they're finished, and not bundle them up as one big release? For all we know this camera enhancement has been finished for the past 4 months, know what I mean? It doesn't matter much now because all that waiting will result in what people have been asking for, but if MMS was done at Christmas, imagine how many Christmas photos could have been sent lol.
But that's all speculation. Each development team could have just been given a deadline and some teams worked feverishly everyday to meet the deadline while others spread their work out and lollygagged because they knew they would be done in time no problem.
Ok, I'm done ranting
Testing out new features doesn't work that way because of the amount of Q&A involved with every release before it gets sent to the public. It is far easier to have fewer releases with more features that are better tested than to constantly be testing new features incrementally. The problem arises when features are interdependent on each other and it's all too easy for something to break.
Well the only gripe I have about it is how they release the updates. Wouldn't it be better to release things as they're finished, and not bundle them up as one big release? For all we know this camera enhancement has been finished for the past 4 months, know what I mean? It doesn't matter much now because all that waiting will result in what people have been asking for, but if MMS was done at Christmas, imagine how many Christmas photos could have been sent lol.
But that's all speculation. Each development team could have just been given a deadline and some teams worked feverishly everyday to meet the deadline while others spread their work out and lollygagged because they knew they would be done in time no problem.
Ok, I'm done ranting
But we don't know if it's done, do we?
And you know what? This isn't such a big deal. I don't want to get little updates every month or so that add trivial fixes and features that just add to the chance of screwing other apps or features.
It's better to do it all at once, so that all can be tested together, and third party developers don't have to go crazy trying their apps with every insignificant update.
This is why MS wraps up all new developments into one big update once a year or so. Their developers are much happier that way.
In fact, Apple consistently criticized for having updates to its OS every few months.
As we seem to get a major upgrade to the phone OS every year, its not too long to wait.
While it's interesting that they "look better" now, it also rather sad that 2 years later with the same camera only now produces better results. Video could have also been captured with the same camera- no doubt. In other words it's not the camera but the software that was lacking- as I've always stated but was struck down by the fanboyz.
but this is the beauty of the iPhone.
instead of being stuck with horrid software, like on the Treo 750, knowing that things could be improved, apple is actually making the first phones they sold BETTER.
Palm (especially) would sell you a new phone, but not improve the old
apple will offer software upgrades to improve both the oldest and the newest phones.
THIS is why the iPhone is a strong seller and changing the marketplace. Apple is the first major player to realize it is about software.
I thought I heard that the reason video isn't that good has more to do with the access times on the internal storage than anything else.
And a few other little details like processor speed, available memory, and battery impact. Adding quality video is more complicated than just software. That said, it's good to see some improvement on pics from software updates. If Apple adds the right hardware changes to the next model, video will be worth the wait.
The crappy quality of the camera is my biggest of my very few gripes about the glorious iPhone 3G! If the picture quality can be improved without me having to get another phone, I am officially stoked!
I never though that the 2 megapixel size or fixed-focus were necessarily the causes of the lousiness. I had a 0.3MP camera that took some pretty good shots.
At what point does Apple decide its software is good enough to release? Essentially, all you folks complaining that these improvements should have happened earlier, would have had the exact same complaints if they had done as you suggest.
If Apple had waited a couple of months to develop, test and integrate these improvements before releasing this, then:
1) The iPhone would have been a few months late.
2) Other features would not have been as well developed
3) If they added any new features, or made any improvements, then the exact same complaints would have come out.
Saying that "Apple should have done this x time ago" is equivalent to saying "I will complain, except if Apple stops improving the iPhone".
Fact is, while it wasn't as good as it could be, the iPhone camera S/W was good enough that it became the most popular device for pics on flickr, and it was used by certain photographers as part of their image portfolio. And there haven't really been any complaints regarding the poor quality of the camera.
Apple releases stuff when its good enough for normal usage, and then keeps improving it...
The first camera software was a fantastic achievement considering the pictures it produces are far better than any other camera with the same modest specs can produce. ?"
Seriously -take your blinders off. That statment is a joke. It's pictures were the same if not slightly worse than some cameras with the same specs. And now it's better (improved). If it was so great why did it need to be improved?
Quote:
Why don't you just buy an iPhone and get it over with? We all know you rarely criticise the Apple products you actually buy, just the ones you know nothing about.
I may just surprise you and do just that now that the iPhone finally has all the specs I've demanded (except AT&T)for the last 2 years and have been answered- texting, texting pics, video recording and hopefully sending video, cut and paste and last but not least bluetooth stereo.
I can also imagine that some of the same people who complain about it taking so long to release updates would be the first ones to complain that it was buggy if Apple released it early.
I can also imagine that some of the same people who complain about it taking so long to release updates would be the first ones to complain that it was buggy if Apple released it early.
What are you all talking about? Pics from Photobooth on my iMac looks crappy yet I'm glad I have it. ( and not because of the subject material).
Comments
I think it's cool they can make the camera better through better programming, but I don't think it's cool that they package it up and wait 2 years to attempt to do so. Maybe another 2 years from now they'll allow flash and that'll be just another little incentive not to jump ship when the contract expires.
I wish HTC would take a lesson from Apple and update their camera on the touch pro. It's a decent camera for a phone, but it definitely has much more potential.
This IS just software. People can say it's an artificial limitation, but it could also just be a planned upgrade. There is such thing as a software development life cycle, and some SDLC's last longer than others. Why hold back the release of a good phone because one piece of the software isn't finished?
iPhone 3.0 allows communication through the docking port for third-party apps. If a flash isn't built in to the machine, you can bet there'll be some kind of add-on.
The difference in photo quality looks suspiciously drastic for just a software upgrade. I wouldn't be surprised if most of what the comparison photos are showing is grease on the lense of the iphone running 2.2.1
Night pictures are very realistic. This is exactly how iPhone 3G 2.2.1 does it. Digitally processed, for sure. No one can guarantee, thought, this wasn't done with Photoshop on a desktop computer.
Well the only gripe I have about it is how they release the updates. Wouldn't it be better to release things as they're finished, and not bundle them up as one big release? For all we know this camera enhancement has been finished for the past 4 months, know what I mean? It doesn't matter much now because all that waiting will result in what people have been asking for, but if MMS was done at Christmas, imagine how many Christmas photos could have been sent lol.
But that's all speculation. Each development team could have just been given a deadline and some teams worked feverishly everyday to meet the deadline while others spread their work out and lollygagged because they knew they would be done in time no problem.
Ok, I'm done ranting
It's about priorities. Most people can wait on improvement in features but no one would wait on an unstable apps. Since the 2.0 there were many problems ranging from crashing Safari to crashing 3rd party apps. There is also the needed iPhone SDK improvements. All of this need to be coordinated between many teams and many engineers. Remember the iPhone OS is less than 2 year old, built solely by Apple, and started from almost a scratch. Look how long it took Android to even be used on one device. We need more stable phone first then we need more features.
It was quite clear when taking pictures that there was something wrong with the software as the image quality changes dynamically based on the light intensity. If you put an object on a dark background vs a light background, the iphone automatically corrects the overall image in software and can make the same object appear completely different.
Some color noise removal would have been a nice addition but you can see in the shadows that problem is still there. A Photoshop filter improves this but they could have implemented it directly on the phone.
It's not that simple.
Even D-SLR manufacturers disagree on where to go with built-in noise removal.
If noise could be removed without damaging the image, all would do it as much as possible. But it can't. Every bit of extra noise removal softens the picture further.
When you start with a camera that has low resolution to begin with, it's too much.
Most manufacturers of D-SLRs give a choice of minimal reduction to high reduction.
I'd always rather have no noise reduction in the camera, and decide how much to add, and how to add it, later.
Well the only gripe I have about it is how they release the updates. Wouldn't it be better to release things as they're finished, and not bundle them up as one big release? For all we know this camera enhancement has been finished for the past 4 months, know what I mean? It doesn't matter much now because all that waiting will result in what people have been asking for, but if MMS was done at Christmas, imagine how many Christmas photos could have been sent lol.
But that's all speculation. Each development team could have just been given a deadline and some teams worked feverishly everyday to meet the deadline while others spread their work out and lollygagged because they knew they would be done in time no problem.
Ok, I'm done ranting
Testing out new features doesn't work that way because of the amount of Q&A involved with every release before it gets sent to the public. It is far easier to have fewer releases with more features that are better tested than to constantly be testing new features incrementally. The problem arises when features are interdependent on each other and it's all too easy for something to break.
Well the only gripe I have about it is how they release the updates. Wouldn't it be better to release things as they're finished, and not bundle them up as one big release? For all we know this camera enhancement has been finished for the past 4 months, know what I mean? It doesn't matter much now because all that waiting will result in what people have been asking for, but if MMS was done at Christmas, imagine how many Christmas photos could have been sent lol.
But that's all speculation. Each development team could have just been given a deadline and some teams worked feverishly everyday to meet the deadline while others spread their work out and lollygagged because they knew they would be done in time no problem.
Ok, I'm done ranting
But we don't know if it's done, do we?
And you know what? This isn't such a big deal. I don't want to get little updates every month or so that add trivial fixes and features that just add to the chance of screwing other apps or features.
It's better to do it all at once, so that all can be tested together, and third party developers don't have to go crazy trying their apps with every insignificant update.
This is why MS wraps up all new developments into one big update once a year or so. Their developers are much happier that way.
In fact, Apple consistently criticized for having updates to its OS every few months.
As we seem to get a major upgrade to the phone OS every year, its not too long to wait.
While it's interesting that they "look better" now, it also rather sad that 2 years later with the same camera only now produces better results. Video could have also been captured with the same camera- no doubt. In other words it's not the camera but the software that was lacking- as I've always stated but was struck down by the fanboyz.
but this is the beauty of the iPhone.
instead of being stuck with horrid software, like on the Treo 750, knowing that things could be improved, apple is actually making the first phones they sold BETTER.
Palm (especially) would sell you a new phone, but not improve the old
apple will offer software upgrades to improve both the oldest and the newest phones.
THIS is why the iPhone is a strong seller and changing the marketplace. Apple is the first major player to realize it is about software.
wtf sort of test candidate is a cat? A CAT!
Lots of testing is done with cats and dogs because the fur gives a good test of sharpness.
Darkroom: Free
Makes the iPhone camera shots better.
I thought I heard that the reason video isn't that good has more to do with the access times on the internal storage than anything else.
And a few other little details like processor speed, available memory, and battery impact. Adding quality video is more complicated than just software. That said, it's good to see some improvement on pics from software updates. If Apple adds the right hardware changes to the next model, video will be worth the wait.
The crappy quality of the camera is my biggest of my very few gripes about the glorious iPhone 3G! If the picture quality can be improved without me having to get another phone, I am officially stoked!
I never though that the 2 megapixel size or fixed-focus were necessarily the causes of the lousiness. I had a 0.3MP camera that took some pretty good shots.
If Apple had waited a couple of months to develop, test and integrate these improvements before releasing this, then:
1) The iPhone would have been a few months late.
2) Other features would not have been as well developed
3) If they added any new features, or made any improvements, then the exact same complaints would have come out.
Saying that "Apple should have done this x time ago" is equivalent to saying "I will complain, except if Apple stops improving the iPhone".
Fact is, while it wasn't as good as it could be, the iPhone camera S/W was good enough that it became the most popular device for pics on flickr, and it was used by certain photographers as part of their image portfolio. And there haven't really been any complaints regarding the poor quality of the camera.
Apple releases stuff when its good enough for normal usage, and then keeps improving it...
The first camera software was a fantastic achievement considering the pictures it produces are far better than any other camera with the same modest specs can produce. ?"
Seriously -take your blinders off. That statment is a joke. It's pictures were the same if not slightly worse than some cameras with the same specs. And now it's better (improved). If it was so great why did it need to be improved?
Why don't you just buy an iPhone and get it over with? We all know you rarely criticise the Apple products you actually buy, just the ones you know nothing about.
I may just surprise you and do just that now that the iPhone finally has all the specs I've demanded (except AT&T)for the last 2 years and have been answered- texting, texting pics, video recording and hopefully sending video, cut and paste and last but not least bluetooth stereo.
I can also imagine that some of the same people who complain about it taking so long to release updates would be the first ones to complain that it was buggy if Apple released it early.
What are you all talking about? Pics from Photobooth on my iMac looks crappy yet I'm glad I have it. ( and not because of the subject material).