My point was that the work done on the iPhone camera was very good indeed and for you to diss the new 3.0 version, (before it's even out!), by implying that the old version was sloppy work, or no work at all, and that it could have all been magically done years ago is utter nonsense.
You make things up. Where did I diss 3.0? Nowhere.
There is no magic in technology 3-5 year's old at least (video) only hocus-pokus in your reasoning and excuses for Apple.
Dude, there is this little thing called "time," and this other thing called "work."
Something being possible, does not equate to there being "no reason" why it can't be done. The first camera software was a fantastic achievement considering the pictures it produces are far better than any other camera with the same modest specs can produce. After years of hard work by lots and lots of people it's about to get a bit better, but you are critical of this? WTF?
I know I bug you sometimes by referring to your arguments as juvenile, but this goes to the heart of that. Apple is getting set to present you with this great present wherein the iPhone camera will take better pictures than it has before, it's FREE, and all you have to say is (effectively) "shoulda come sooner?"
And you wonder why people sometimes think of your statements as petulant or immature?
If someone invented an anti-gravity device tomorrow morning, would you just say "it's about time?" Or do you actually have any idea of the amount of hard work that goes into things like software development (and anti-gravity devices)?
Why don't you just buy an iPhone and get it over with? We all know you rarely criticise the Apple products you actually buy, just the ones you know nothing about.
Well said! I stopped reading Techstud's comments along time ago. They bring me down!
Doesn't it use cell tower and/or WiFi location information? It just fills in the "GPS" metadata fields with those (approximate) values.
Yeah, it could, but it's not very exacting. Better than nothing I suppose, but I didn't think the original iPhone did that because I don't recall the Allow/Don't Allow option of adding your location to pictures you took. Perhaps Apple was only concerned about it when it was exacting to more than the cell tower of WiFi hotspot you were connected to.
The suggestion that they waited two years to release this camera update doesn't make sense. The camera has been getting updates from the start, this just happens to be the most dramatic we've seen.
That will be impossible to the current phones as a flash will require a HW addition. If you meant Adobe Flash Apple has stated that they aren't opposed to Flash, but that they Adobe to make a decent version first. They can't even make a decent version for Macs and I don't think any of the TV streaming sites will stream to Flash Lite.
Apple is rumoured to be using at least a 3.2mpx camera with the next iPhone, but it will never be as good as other smartphones that are double its thickness. Nokia will continue to dominate in that area for the foreseeable future. they have the skills and they have no problem making a phone around a decent camera, while Apple is only intent on using a camera that fits into it's slim phone design. Different methodologies, each with their pros and cons.
This is the going to be the third major release of the iPhone OS, which all iPhones will get. That means people out of contract with the original iPhone, going into the 3rd year of usage will be getting this free update. All of that is very atypical.
So Apple releases a 230MB update for little updates daily? That doesn't seem sensible. Apple uses many frameworks and there are changes throughout the system that would make a complex updater app more problematic than just creating making some meaningful changes and then issuing a periodic update.
I have never worked for a good company that allowed it's teams to "lollygag" in the way you describe. If they finish one feature set for the iPhone then they should be improving it or working on other things for future updates.
lol let me respond one by one here
Were the camera updates as dramatic as this?
Yes I was talking about Adobe flash as I know the current iphones don't have a bulb in there for a flash
The camera on my touch pro is the same as the diamond's (3.2mp with auto focus) except mine has an LED bulb for taking pictures in the dark, that's it. The diamond is not a very thick phone. The camera is still very good though, so a good camera doesn't always translate into a thick phone.
Do you think a lot of people will keep their iphones and not renew their contracts?
If 230mb is the size of the rom, and that's how they update, then I see what you mean. You can't flash the phone for every little thing with a 230mb file. I was speaking in terms of small updates being variable in size. I didn't realize each update needed to be the entire package, know what I mean? Plus someone already pointed out the pro's of releasing updates like these together earlier, so I'll shut up about that lol.
I've seen both scenarios, but I work for a government contractor. Perhaps other companies always keep their programmers busy.
Even D-SLR manufacturers disagree on where to go with built-in noise removal.
If noise could be removed without damaging the image, all would do it as much as possible. But it can't. Every bit of extra noise removal softens the picture further.
When you start with a camera that has low resolution to begin with, it's too much.
Most manufacturers of D-SLRs give a choice of minimal reduction to high reduction.
I'd always rather have no noise reduction in the camera, and decide how much to add, and how to add it, later.
Yuppers. Been saying that for quite a while to my friends that have Nokia cam phones. To me, only the N82 and the N95 are worth anything. The other Carl Zeiss cams are crappola coupled with even crappier software. If I am outside and need to take a shot, I tend to use the iPhone as I will on average get a better shot.
Yuppers. Been saying that for quite a while to my friends that have Nokia cam phones. To me, only the N82 and the N95 are worth anything. The other Carl Zeiss cams are crappola coupled with even crappier software. If I am outside and need to take a shot, I tend to use the iPhone as I will on average get a better shot.
Yes I was talking about Adobe flash as I know the current iphones don't have a bulb in there for a flash
The camera on my touch pro is the same as the diamond's (3.2mp with auto focus) except mine has an LED bulb for taking pictures in the dark, that's it. The diamond is not a very thick phone. The camera is still very good though, so a good camera doesn't always translate into a thick phone.
Do you think a lot of people will keep their iphones and not renew their contracts?
If 230mb is the size of the rom, and that's how they update, then I see what you mean. You can't flash the phone for every little thing with a 230mb file. I was speaking in terms of small updates being variable in size. I didn't realize each update needed to be the entire package, know what I mean? Plus someone already pointed out the pro's of releasing updates like these together earlier, so I'll shut up about that lol.
I've seen both scenarios, but I work for a government contractor. Perhaps other companies always keep their programmers busy.
I don't recall them being as note worthy, but there were changes. Who knows how much coding took place for each camera revision.
Flash will be an issue for awhile it seems. I can't watch Hulu in 480p on my netbook with a 1.8Ghz Atom with 2GB RAM without stuttering. Flash is cool but it's such a system hog. A ~400MHz single core ARM with 128MB RAM is not the place for the current Flash 9 or 10, and Flash Lite is a waste.
I said thickness, but it's really about internal space for the components, but having a thicker phone does give you more room for the lens and CMOS. Unless Apple has licensed TARDIS technology expect the iPhone camera to be below most other phones on the market.
There are pros to their system, but it also sucks to have to wait for a large update, especially with Mac OS X having more several hundred MB point updates. It's even worse if you've read that there is a fix for your issue in, say, 10.5.7, but Apple still isn't releasing it. That could be nerve racking.
Gov't contractor. No wonder. You can always tell if the road work is government or contracted to local businesses based on how fast it gets completed.
Right now I use a Nokia E71 with a 3.2 mp Carl Zeiss lens. Great lens. Crappy software, and duo LED's. The vids are nothing special. Great in a pinch of of you want to make a porti-porn movie.
I will see how things shake out when I get the N97. Supposedly Nokia listened and fixed the software.
The E71 is about the same thickness as the iPhone I think (too lazy to measure), but if they can squeeze a cam in there, it might be able with the current iPhone. Caveat: There is a slight bulge where the cam in on the E71 back.
I doubt Apple is creating its own photo processing algorithms. I would believe they are getting them from a company that specializes in photo processing algorithms. As with everything companies are working to improve them. The algorithms available this year are better than ones available two years ago.
Solving problems with still photos does not solve problems with motion video. They both have their own sets of problems.
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud
While it's interesting that they "look better" now, it also rather sad that 2 years later with the same camera only now produces better results. Video could have also been captured with the same camera- no doubt. In other words it's not the camera but the software that was lacking- as I've always stated but was struck down by the fanboyz.
Good to know they can improve the quality with just a software update. The iPhone will still take crappy photos, but, that's why it's called an iPhone. I wonder if video capabilities will be added to the 3G phone as well.
Right now I use a Nokia E71 with a 3.2 mp Carl Zeiss lens. Great lens. Crappy software, and duo LED's. The vids are nothing special. Great in a pinch of of you want to make a porti-porn movie.
I will see how things shake out when I get the N97. Supposedly Nokia listened and fixed the software.
The E71 is about the same thickness as the iPhone I think (too lazy to measure), but if they can squeeze a cam in there, it might be able with the current iPhone. Caveat: There is a slight bulge where the cam in on the E71 back.
My LG chocolate actually takes decent vids and I can MMS them around. They're not super smooth but def worth showing more than once rather than a picture itself. I will be interesting to see how this vid on the iPhone will task its battery if its going to be so high end.
Comments
Why does the blurry image have no GPS data? Even my 1st Gen iPhone has "GPS" data when I open it in Preview.
I guess it could be a screenshot copy, but how does the original iPhone get GPS data without a GPS chip?
My point was that the work done on the iPhone camera was very good indeed and for you to diss the new 3.0 version, (before it's even out!), by implying that the old version was sloppy work, or no work at all, and that it could have all been magically done years ago is utter nonsense.
You make things up. Where did I diss 3.0? Nowhere.
There is no magic in technology 3-5 year's old at least (video) only hocus-pokus in your reasoning and excuses for Apple.
I guess it could be a screenshot copy, but how does the original iPhone get GPS data without a GPS chip?
Doesn't it use cell tower and/or WiFi location information? It just fills in the "GPS" metadata fields with those (approximate) values.
How do you turn off the obnoxious byline in emails "sent from my iPhone/iPod"?
Go to settings, mail, then change the signature (it's at the bottom).
Dude, there is this little thing called "time," and this other thing called "work."
Something being possible, does not equate to there being "no reason" why it can't be done. The first camera software was a fantastic achievement considering the pictures it produces are far better than any other camera with the same modest specs can produce. After years of hard work by lots and lots of people it's about to get a bit better, but you are critical of this? WTF?
I know I bug you sometimes by referring to your arguments as juvenile, but this goes to the heart of that. Apple is getting set to present you with this great present wherein the iPhone camera will take better pictures than it has before, it's FREE, and all you have to say is (effectively) "shoulda come sooner?"
And you wonder why people sometimes think of your statements as petulant or immature?
If someone invented an anti-gravity device tomorrow morning, would you just say "it's about time?" Or do you actually have any idea of the amount of hard work that goes into things like software development (and anti-gravity devices)?
Why don't you just buy an iPhone and get it over with? We all know you rarely criticise the Apple products you actually buy, just the ones you know nothing about.
Well said! I stopped reading Techstud's comments along time ago. They bring me down!
Well said! I stopped reading Techstud's comments along time ago. They bring me down!
I'm sorry.
Doesn't it use cell tower and/or WiFi location information? It just fills in the "GPS" metadata fields with those (approximate) values.
Yeah, it could, but it's not very exacting. Better than nothing I suppose, but I didn't think the original iPhone did that because I don't recall the Allow/Don't Allow option of adding your location to pictures you took. Perhaps Apple was only concerned about it when it was exacting to more than the cell tower of WiFi hotspot you were connected to.
The suggestion that they waited two years to release this camera update doesn't make sense. The camera has been getting updates from the start, this just happens to be the most dramatic we've seen.
That will be impossible to the current phones as a flash will require a HW addition. If you meant Adobe Flash Apple has stated that they aren't opposed to Flash, but that they Adobe to make a decent version first. They can't even make a decent version for Macs and I don't think any of the TV streaming sites will stream to Flash Lite.
Apple is rumoured to be using at least a 3.2mpx camera with the next iPhone, but it will never be as good as other smartphones that are double its thickness. Nokia will continue to dominate in that area for the foreseeable future. they have the skills and they have no problem making a phone around a decent camera, while Apple is only intent on using a camera that fits into it's slim phone design. Different methodologies, each with their pros and cons.
This is the going to be the third major release of the iPhone OS, which all iPhones will get. That means people out of contract with the original iPhone, going into the 3rd year of usage will be getting this free update. All of that is very atypical.
So Apple releases a 230MB update for little updates daily? That doesn't seem sensible. Apple uses many frameworks and there are changes throughout the system that would make a complex updater app more problematic than just creating making some meaningful changes and then issuing a periodic update.
I have never worked for a good company that allowed it's teams to "lollygag" in the way you describe. If they finish one feature set for the iPhone then they should be improving it or working on other things for future updates.
lol let me respond one by one here
It's not that simple.
Even D-SLR manufacturers disagree on where to go with built-in noise removal.
If noise could be removed without damaging the image, all would do it as much as possible. But it can't. Every bit of extra noise removal softens the picture further.
When you start with a camera that has low resolution to begin with, it's too much.
Most manufacturers of D-SLRs give a choice of minimal reduction to high reduction.
I'd always rather have no noise reduction in the camera, and decide how much to add, and how to add it, later.
Yuppers. Been saying that for quite a while to my friends that have Nokia cam phones. To me, only the N82 and the N95 are worth anything. The other Carl Zeiss cams are crappola coupled with even crappier software. If I am outside and need to take a shot, I tend to use the iPhone as I will on average get a better shot.
I didn't think the original iPhone did that
Well, it doesn't matter, because they said they were comparing 2.2.1 with 3.0 beta.
Now, maybe if you tell the iPhone not to use location data, it doesn't use the GPS fields in the metadata.
Yuppers. Been saying that for quite a while to my friends that have Nokia cam phones. To me, only the N82 and the N95 are worth anything. The other Carl Zeiss cams are crappola coupled with even crappier software. If I am outside and need to take a shot, I tend to use the iPhone as I will on average get a better shot.
And what do you use to take videos?
lol let me respond one by one here
Now, maybe if you tell the iPhone not to use location data, it doesn't use the GPS fields in the metadata.
No, it won't if you say don't allow. That seems like the likely reason.
And what do you use to take videos?
Right now I use a Nokia E71 with a 3.2 mp Carl Zeiss lens. Great lens. Crappy software, and duo LED's. The vids are nothing special. Great in a pinch of of you want to make a porti-porn movie.
I will see how things shake out when I get the N97. Supposedly Nokia listened and fixed the software.
@solipsism and iStink,
The E71 is about the same thickness as the iPhone I think (too lazy to measure), but if they can squeeze a cam in there, it might be able with the current iPhone. Caveat: There is a slight bulge where the cam in on the E71 back.
There is no need to go BETTER when your phone already comes with video, texting ,texting pics- ALREADY!
Even though the whole thing stinks?
What's the point of having features on an inferior product with an OS that the entire industry has said is over five years obsolete?
We don't yet know how good the Pre will be either. It may be great, or it may be junk.
.....>>No cheating is seen<<<<
and you know this how ..?
How can a manufacturer possibly cheat here? They have their hardware, and they make improvements in the software, whatever they may be.
What can you even come up with that could be called a "cheat"?
An improvement is just that, no matter how they figure out how to do it.
Solving problems with still photos does not solve problems with motion video. They both have their own sets of problems.
While it's interesting that they "look better" now, it also rather sad that 2 years later with the same camera only now produces better results. Video could have also been captured with the same camera- no doubt. In other words it's not the camera but the software that was lacking- as I've always stated but was struck down by the fanboyz.
Right now I use a Nokia E71 with a 3.2 mp Carl Zeiss lens. Great lens. Crappy software, and duo LED's. The vids are nothing special. Great in a pinch of of you want to make a porti-porn movie.
I will see how things shake out when I get the N97. Supposedly Nokia listened and fixed the software.
@solipsism and iStink,
The E71 is about the same thickness as the iPhone I think (too lazy to measure), but if they can squeeze a cam in there, it might be able with the current iPhone. Caveat: There is a slight bulge where the cam in on the E71 back.
My LG chocolate actually takes decent vids and I can MMS them around. They're not super smooth but def worth showing more than once rather than a picture itself. I will be interesting to see how this vid on the iPhone will task its battery if its going to be so high end.