Being able to discuss bottlenecks in parallel programming, multi-core enabled applications [which design patterns to implement and more] etc., with fellow devs in the community only helps Apple and the 3rd party community in shoring up their applications for 10.6 to take advantage of OpenCL and GrandCentral.
I doubt the guy actually thought he did. Further, he didn't say he was going to kick anybody's ass. He invited somebody to come to SF and kick his ass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogue27
I really shouldn't get into this conversation, but I have to point out the obvious...
Apple has done the beta thing before. They really haven't had any reason lately. None of the OSX division have been radically different and they haven't screwed it up like Microsoft did with Vista. Microsoft has 7 out there as a beta as a way to redeem their image.
MS had an open beta for Vista too, I know because I downloaded Beta 2 and RC 1 from them.
Also, as another poster said, it's in MS' best interests to have an open beta, because their are so many different configurations out there.
Oddly enough, I hated Vista in beta, but was probably one of the few that liked it in RTM, but then again, I was comparing it to XP when it went to RTM in 2001.
With Apple, since I'm not sure what they're really up to with SL, I have sort of lost interest, with Win7 coming out soon, and the fact that I can test it, for free.
But I'm sure when SL drops, Apple will have a page up, touting "300 new features", and I will then have to decide if it's worth the $129 upgrade. It's hard to make an informed decision, when you actually haven't heard much about said product, other than Grand Central and OpenCL, which mean absolutely nothing to me right now.
But I'm sure when SL drops, Apple will have a page up, touting "300 new features", and I will then have to decide if it's worth the $129 upgrade. It's hard to make an informed decision, when you actually haven't heard much about said product, other than Grand Central and OpenCL, which mean absolutely nothing to me right now.
That's what WWDC is for. Come June there will be a lot of disclosure on what Snow Leopard will mean to not just developers but also consumers. The excitement will come.
I truly believe Snow Leopard is going to be geared toward the SOHO to enterprise markets like previous OSX versions have not been before. We know this by the Exchange integration and some of the other enterprise features the server version will have. Depending on your perspective that's exciting - to me too.
I do think there should be an uninstaller Preference Pane in System Preferences. All it would have to do is check some very simple files in the app to find out the file in the Preferences and Application Support files (and where ever else) in Library.
For apps that use a proper install you can choose Show Files from the Menu Bar to see where files are being installed. Since these might get written to and accessed in way that the app will not know about the installer could write to the Uninstaller PrefPane DB about the installation.
Mac users do tend to be more anal about their computer's files, which is probably due to Mac users being more technically savvy than the average Windows user, so I can see how a proper, native installer app would be nice. Sure, you can just delete the app from the Applications folder, but it's not pretty when you access your Library and see remnants of apps that you haven't used, seen or heard about for several years.
This all assumes that the installer is written by somebody who knows what they are doing. Many times you fined files that give no indication of what program they belong to or are put in really strange places.
This all assumes that the installer is written by somebody who knows what they are doing. Many times you fined files that give no indication of what program they belong to or are put in really strange places.
This is why I mention Apple making it a default of their SDK so the developer can make easy work of it, automatic even. When the app starts up it looks for the PLIST and Application Support files. It wouldn't be hard be to have a XML listing of installed files that the installer can pull from.
That's what WWDC is for. Come June there will be a lot of disclosure on what Snow Leopard will mean to not just developers but also consumers. The excitement will come.
I truly believe Snow Leopard is going to be geared toward the SOHO to enterprise markets like previous OSX versions have not been before. We know this by the Exchange integration and some of the other enterprise features the server version will have. Depending on your perspective that's exciting - to me too.
I'm not a dev, but the majority of anything I have heard about SL has just been rumors, other than OpenCL, Grand Central, and maybe QT X, but I'm not all sure what the later entails.
I'm sure if devs do utilize those tools, it may lead to better apps, but as an end user, that's going to take awhile to materialize.
I think I'll wait on SL, until more apps are released to take advantage of all it's new features, and after a couple point updates, so that Apple will fix the bugs for the early adopters, and maybe by then, I might have a new Mac too.
From what we have heard so far, the most exciting features we could expect in SL are:
Mostly user-oriented:
- New interface
- QuickTime X
- Resolution independence (not confirmed yet)
Mostly (small) business oriented:
- Exchange support
Mostly under the hood:
- Grand Central Dispatch.
- Open CL.
- New developer options: Location services, multi-touch improvements etc.
- Filesystem API improvements, ZFS support.
- more compile-time optimizations.
The under-the-hood changes will have some, albeit limited effect out-of-the-box, because the underlying frameworks used by all apps will be improved. The real advantage requires application redesign. The most important technology will be Grand Central Dispatch. Open CL will be suitable for a limited number of applications but the advantage there could be really big. My guess is that audio and video processing applications are good candidates for this.
One of the first apps to take advantage of the new technologies will be Apple's own apps, of course. But they will not be ready by the SL release. I do expect Apple to demo the technologies with a selected app though.
Long-term implications:
Snow Leopard sets the stage for the next generation OS. It finally breaks away with the legacy code (Carbon) and heads into the future. Polishing the new technologies will take some time.
It is important to understand that SL is developed with the future generations of the hardware in mind. Currently the majority of the CPUs in use are dual core (there are no quad-core notebooks yet, and the notebooks represent the majority of the computers sold during the last couple of years). In just a few years we should expect tens of cores being the common place (at least that's what Intel guys said). Apple is starting to build an OS which will be ready for this
Don't be confused by the netbooks sales figures. Netbooks will remain a separate category. Initially, they cannibalized some of the notebook sales at the very low end, but this trend will hit a wall. The netbooks are NEVER going to be the main device of managing one's digital life. It will be a supplement of the main computer for a limited number of tasks.
From what we have heard so far, the most exciting features we could expect in SL are:
Mostly user-oriented:
- New interface
- QuickTime X
- Resolution independence (not confirmed yet)
Mostly (small) business oriented:
- Exchange support
Mostly under the hood:
- Grand Central Dispatch.
- Open CL.
- New developer options: Location services, multi-touch improvements etc.
- Filesystem API improvements, ZFS support.
- more compile-time optimizations.
The under-the-hood changes will have some, albeit limited effect out-of-the-box, because the underlying frameworks used by all apps will be improved. The real advantage requires application redesign. The most important technology will be Grand Central Dispatch. Open CL will be suitable for a limited number of applications but the advantage there could be really big. My guess is that audio and video processing applications are good candidates for this.
One of the first apps to take advantage of the new technologies will be Apple's own apps, of course. But they will not be ready by the SL release. I do expect Apple to demo the technologies with a selected app though.
Long-term implications:
Snow Leopard sets the stage for the next generation OS. It finally breaks away with the legacy code (Carbon) and heads into the future. Polishing the new technologies will take some time.
It is important to understand that SL is developed with the future generations of the hardware in mind. Currently the majority of the CPUs in use are dual core (there are no quad-core notebooks yet, and the notebooks represent the majority of the computers sold during the last couple of years). In just a few years we should expect tens of cores being the common place (at least that's what Intel guys said). Apple is starting to build an OS which will be ready for this
Don't be confused by the netbooks sales figures. Netbooks will remain a separate category. Initially, they cannibalized some of the notebook sales at the very low end, but this trend will hit a wall. The netbooks are NEVER going to be the main device of managing one's digital life. It will be a supplement of the main computer for a limited number of tasks.
We also get 64-bit from top to bottom (with 32-bit support included, just in case) I love the way they implemented it so you don't have to chose ahead of time what version to install.
All included SL apps, except for maybe iTunes, will be Cocoa.
As much as I want it, I'd be surprised if Resolution Independence were finished. There seems to be no change in it since Leopard when I turn it on.
So is the Prince McLean thing for Dilbert. I'm surprised AI puts up with it. It's certainly dragging their site down. As in people are sick and tired of it and won't be back, falling ad revenues, etc.
We also get 64-bit from top to bottom (with 32-bit support included, just in case) I love the way they implemented it so you don't have to chose ahead of time what version to install.
All included SL apps, except for maybe iTunes, will be Cocoa.
As much as I want it, I'd be surprised if Resolution Independence were finished. There seems to be no change in it since Leopard when I turn it on.
Correct. 64-bittiness should go to under-the-hood changes. As far as resolution independence goes, my hope is that it will come along the rumored Marble UI. Wishful thinking may be, but Apple is a bit late to the party here. If they plan to introduce different form factor device soon, they will need RI anyway.
"I agree with you that the wow factor is at it's height right now but it won't stay that way. People will begin losing interest in Leopard. Like I said, as Microsoft moves closer to releasing Windows 7, the attention will begin to move in that direction.
"
it's fascinating how we speak about tools, software, to do work and hobbies, like we speak about new dolls, fighting like little girls about the new fashion.
the "wow factor".. tell me it's "how the world works, man", and I will say : "just yours".
I don't care about the "wow factor". I only care in an efficient and pleasant computer.
I think it's funny people are comparing Microsoft's beta of Windows 7 and OS X 10.6. First off Windows NEEDS to beta it because of all the different hardware it's going to be used on.
I think you guys would freak if you ever knew how many configurations OSX had to support. Its newer modular nature is just better at it than windows.
This is why I mention Apple making it a default of their SDK so the developer can make easy work of it, automatic even. When the app starts up it looks for the PLIST and Application Support files. It wouldn't be hard be to have a XML listing of installed files that the installer can pull from.
FYI: Don't expect Installer.app to be the same for SL as it has been to date.
Comments
I really shouldn't get into this conversation, but I have to point out the obvious...
I don't think you actually scared anybody.
Apple has done the beta thing before. They really haven't had any reason lately. None of the OSX division have been radically different and they haven't screwed it up like Microsoft did with Vista. Microsoft has 7 out there as a beta as a way to redeem their image.
MS had an open beta for Vista too, I know because I downloaded Beta 2 and RC 1 from them.
Also, as another poster said, it's in MS' best interests to have an open beta, because their are so many different configurations out there.
Oddly enough, I hated Vista in beta, but was probably one of the few that liked it in RTM, but then again, I was comparing it to XP when it went to RTM in 2001.
With Apple, since I'm not sure what they're really up to with SL, I have sort of lost interest, with Win7 coming out soon, and the fact that I can test it, for free.
But I'm sure when SL drops, Apple will have a page up, touting "300 new features", and I will then have to decide if it's worth the $129 upgrade. It's hard to make an informed decision, when you actually haven't heard much about said product, other than Grand Central and OpenCL, which mean absolutely nothing to me right now.
"open"?
Sure if you've got 500 dollars minimum. Microsoft is allowing people to download Beta and RC releases of Windows 7 to test it out. That's open.
I would expect Select and Premier developers to be able to discuss an OS they're supposed to have their applications ready for.
The secrecy thing is getting a bit old Apple.
Yes, Microsoft is giving away Windows 7, and I still don't want it. Now that tells you something doesn't it.
But I'm sure when SL drops, Apple will have a page up, touting "300 new features", and I will then have to decide if it's worth the $129 upgrade. It's hard to make an informed decision, when you actually haven't heard much about said product, other than Grand Central and OpenCL, which mean absolutely nothing to me right now.
That's what WWDC is for. Come June there will be a lot of disclosure on what Snow Leopard will mean to not just developers but also consumers. The excitement will come.
I truly believe Snow Leopard is going to be geared toward the SOHO to enterprise markets like previous OSX versions have not been before. We know this by the Exchange integration and some of the other enterprise features the server version will have. Depending on your perspective that's exciting - to me too.
I do think there should be an uninstaller Preference Pane in System Preferences. All it would have to do is check some very simple files in the app to find out the file in the Preferences and Application Support files (and where ever else) in Library.
For apps that use a proper install you can choose Show Files from the Menu Bar to see where files are being installed. Since these might get written to and accessed in way that the app will not know about the installer could write to the Uninstaller PrefPane DB about the installation.
Mac users do tend to be more anal about their computer's files, which is probably due to Mac users being more technically savvy than the average Windows user, so I can see how a proper, native installer app would be nice. Sure, you can just delete the app from the Applications folder, but it's not pretty when you access your Library and see remnants of apps that you haven't used, seen or heard about for several years.
This all assumes that the installer is written by somebody who knows what they are doing. Many times you fined files that give no indication of what program they belong to or are put in really strange places.
This all assumes that the installer is written by somebody who knows what they are doing. Many times you fined files that give no indication of what program they belong to or are put in really strange places.
This is why I mention Apple making it a default of their SDK so the developer can make easy work of it, automatic even. When the app starts up it looks for the PLIST and Application Support files. It wouldn't be hard be to have a XML listing of installed files that the installer can pull from.
That's what WWDC is for. Come June there will be a lot of disclosure on what Snow Leopard will mean to not just developers but also consumers. The excitement will come.
I truly believe Snow Leopard is going to be geared toward the SOHO to enterprise markets like previous OSX versions have not been before. We know this by the Exchange integration and some of the other enterprise features the server version will have. Depending on your perspective that's exciting - to me too.
I'm not a dev, but the majority of anything I have heard about SL has just been rumors, other than OpenCL, Grand Central, and maybe QT X, but I'm not all sure what the later entails.
I'm sure if devs do utilize those tools, it may lead to better apps, but as an end user, that's going to take awhile to materialize.
I think I'll wait on SL, until more apps are released to take advantage of all it's new features, and after a couple point updates, so that Apple will fix the bugs for the early adopters, and maybe by then, I might have a new Mac too.
Mostly user-oriented:
- New interface
- QuickTime X
- Resolution independence (not confirmed yet)
Mostly (small) business oriented:
- Exchange support
Mostly under the hood:
- Grand Central Dispatch.
- Open CL.
- New developer options: Location services, multi-touch improvements etc.
- Filesystem API improvements, ZFS support.
- more compile-time optimizations.
The under-the-hood changes will have some, albeit limited effect out-of-the-box, because the underlying frameworks used by all apps will be improved. The real advantage requires application redesign. The most important technology will be Grand Central Dispatch. Open CL will be suitable for a limited number of applications but the advantage there could be really big. My guess is that audio and video processing applications are good candidates for this.
One of the first apps to take advantage of the new technologies will be Apple's own apps, of course. But they will not be ready by the SL release. I do expect Apple to demo the technologies with a selected app though.
Long-term implications:
Snow Leopard sets the stage for the next generation OS. It finally breaks away with the legacy code (Carbon) and heads into the future. Polishing the new technologies will take some time.
It is important to understand that SL is developed with the future generations of the hardware in mind. Currently the majority of the CPUs in use are dual core (there are no quad-core notebooks yet, and the notebooks represent the majority of the computers sold during the last couple of years). In just a few years we should expect tens of cores being the common place (at least that's what Intel guys said). Apple is starting to build an OS which will be ready for this
Don't be confused by the netbooks sales figures. Netbooks will remain a separate category. Initially, they cannibalized some of the notebook sales at the very low end, but this trend will hit a wall. The netbooks are NEVER going to be the main device of managing one's digital life. It will be a supplement of the main computer for a limited number of tasks.
From what we have heard so far, the most exciting features we could expect in SL are:
Mostly user-oriented:
- New interface
- QuickTime X
- Resolution independence (not confirmed yet)
Mostly (small) business oriented:
- Exchange support
Mostly under the hood:
- Grand Central Dispatch.
- Open CL.
- New developer options: Location services, multi-touch improvements etc.
- Filesystem API improvements, ZFS support.
- more compile-time optimizations.
The under-the-hood changes will have some, albeit limited effect out-of-the-box, because the underlying frameworks used by all apps will be improved. The real advantage requires application redesign. The most important technology will be Grand Central Dispatch. Open CL will be suitable for a limited number of applications but the advantage there could be really big. My guess is that audio and video processing applications are good candidates for this.
One of the first apps to take advantage of the new technologies will be Apple's own apps, of course. But they will not be ready by the SL release. I do expect Apple to demo the technologies with a selected app though.
Long-term implications:
Snow Leopard sets the stage for the next generation OS. It finally breaks away with the legacy code (Carbon) and heads into the future. Polishing the new technologies will take some time.
It is important to understand that SL is developed with the future generations of the hardware in mind. Currently the majority of the CPUs in use are dual core (there are no quad-core notebooks yet, and the notebooks represent the majority of the computers sold during the last couple of years). In just a few years we should expect tens of cores being the common place (at least that's what Intel guys said). Apple is starting to build an OS which will be ready for this
Don't be confused by the netbooks sales figures. Netbooks will remain a separate category. Initially, they cannibalized some of the notebook sales at the very low end, but this trend will hit a wall. The netbooks are NEVER going to be the main device of managing one's digital life. It will be a supplement of the main computer for a limited number of tasks.
We also get 64-bit from top to bottom (with 32-bit support included, just in case) I love the way they implemented it so you don't have to chose ahead of time what version to install.
All included SL apps, except for maybe iTunes, will be Cocoa.
As much as I want it, I'd be surprised if Resolution Independence were finished. There seems to be no change in it since Leopard when I turn it on.
The secrecy thing is getting a bit old Apple.
So is the Prince McLean thing for Dilbert. I'm surprised AI puts up with it. It's certainly dragging their site down. As in people are sick and tired of it and won't be back, falling ad revenues, etc.
This is why AI is here. More important than any article I've ever read on this forum. Thank You.
Good grief what a load of tosh. This must be a Dilbert sock puppet.
We also get 64-bit from top to bottom (with 32-bit support included, just in case) I love the way they implemented it so you don't have to chose ahead of time what version to install.
All included SL apps, except for maybe iTunes, will be Cocoa.
As much as I want it, I'd be surprised if Resolution Independence were finished. There seems to be no change in it since Leopard when I turn it on.
Correct. 64-bittiness should go to under-the-hood changes. As far as resolution independence goes, my hope is that it will come along the rumored Marble UI. Wishful thinking may be, but Apple is a bit late to the party here. If they plan to introduce different form factor device soon, they will need RI anyway.
A new kernel.
An extended device driver model.
Various updates to 3rd party Dev Tools
Updates to TCP/IP, Samba, other network services
Updates to WebObjects, Java, Apache, etc.
"
it's fascinating how we speak about tools, software, to do work and hobbies, like we speak about new dolls, fighting like little girls about the new fashion.
the "wow factor".. tell me it's "how the world works, man", and I will say : "just yours".
I don't care about the "wow factor". I only care in an efficient and pleasant computer.
Anyway,
I think it's funny people are comparing Microsoft's beta of Windows 7 and OS X 10.6. First off Windows NEEDS to beta it because of all the different hardware it's going to be used on.
I think you guys would freak if you ever knew how many configurations OSX had to support. Its newer modular nature is just better at it than windows.
The Apple forum is just awful. There are like 10 posts per day and the atmosphere is like Siberia.
HAHA It is pretty bad right now. I have asked a couple questions and have no replies with very few thread views.
HAHA It is pretty bad right now. I have asked a couple questions and have no replies with very few thread views.
Yes. I have this picture in my head of an entire rack of shiny new multicore servers at Apple processing... 10 posts per day.
This is why I mention Apple making it a default of their SDK so the developer can make easy work of it, automatic even. When the app starts up it looks for the PLIST and Application Support files. It wouldn't be hard be to have a XML listing of installed files that the installer can pull from.
FYI: Don't expect Installer.app to be the same for SL as it has been to date.