At least they are being honest with you by saying that they can't handle the traffic.
Apple is tight lipped, people complain. AT&T gives us a reason, people complain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan
I'm beyond ridiculing AT&T's crappy 3G network, so I won't even go there... The real issue that pisses me off is the fact that:
It's one thing for the carriers to advertise "unlimited data" when in reality it is limited to 5GB.
It's a whole other leap into idiocy for them to actually place restrictions on what you can do with that 5GB of data!
And then to use their partnership with Apple and Apple's monopoly on App sales to force Sling to modify their application? It is just lunacy!
It's time to break up the AT&T iPhone monopoly!
1) It is not limited to 5GB I use considerably more than that on both my iPhone and 3G USB card from AT&T.
2) The iPhone is not a monopoly in anyway. It's exclusive to AT&T in the US, that is it. There are plenty of smartphones out there, and the iPhone isn't even the most popular selling model this past quarter.
ATT sold me an "Unlimited Data Plan"... those specific words are used in my CONTRACT.
So... is it unlimited or isn't it???
ATT knew the capabilities of the device when the signed on as the exclusive provider... then they advertised an UNLIMITED data plan... knowing full well what that would entail. People have every right to be pissed-off about these kinds of things. (limiting Apps, and poor network quality.)
The tethering I can understand... that "data" is being used by a device other than the iPhone.
You have unlimited data to use the phone as it's allowed. SlingPlayer is not allowed on 3G by Apple's App Store, which I'm sure is their contract with each other about apps that potentially cripple their network. NO ONE IS LIMITED YOUR DATA. IT'S STILL UNLIMITED. In fact, by doing this your unlimited data is being preserved. If such apps were forced to be allowed how long before AT&T would be stop the unlimited plans for iPhones and/or would start throttling the data to make streaming impossible?
People need to catch a breath and cut ATT a little slack (granted, they are not making it easy for someone to defend them with their inanely stupid PR)....
Agreed on the PR. They should be embarrassed. It makes it sound like their network is held together with spit and scotch tape. They're A T & T !!! Not Dunder Miflin Telephone. Don't they have any pride? Your stock symbol is T ! Act like it !
How many people have a slingbox? How many people are going to get a slingbox if AT&T opens the iPhone to it? Enough to kill the network? The network must really be holding on by its fingernails.
What happened to the big push by AT&T to increase capacity for some mystery change coming to the iPhone?
If I had a slingbox I'd wonder how it would do with the turtle-slow upload speed I pay Time Warner for. Does anyone have trouble with that?
Being the same company that acted as though warrantless government surveillance was not illegal when it was, of course they can say the iPhone is not a phone when it is. Small potatoes by comparison.
Agreed on the PR. They should be embarrassed. It makes it sound like their network is held together with spit and scotch tape. They're A T & T !!! Not Dunder Miflin Telephone.
Dunder Miflin is profitable, the Michael Scott Telephone Company would be more apropos.
Quote:
What happened to the big push by AT&T to increase capacity for some mystery change coming to the iPhone?
They have. I have noticed wicked speed increases in both uploading and downloading. In fact, my upload speeds on AT&T show that their network have enabled Category 5 HSUPA which is 2Mbps up in many markets. It's the fastest my 3G card supports so I don't know if they support a higher category or not, though I would doubt it.
Quote:
If I had a slingbox I'd wonder how it would do with the turtle-slow upload speed Time Warner gives me. Does anyone have trouble with that?
When I first got mine it was pretty bad. Luckily, Brighthouse/TWC (forget which one it was back then) offered higher rates soon after which helped out greatly. What speeds do you have?
Being the same company that acted as though warrantless government surveillance was not illegal when it was, of course they can say the iPhone is not a phone when it is. Small potatoes by comparison.
The were really late updating their clause. I don't think that anyone will deny that the iPhone uses an excessive amount of data compared to other phones. they should have predicted this ahead of time.
...When I first got mine it was pretty bad. Luckily, Brighthouse/TWC (forget which one it was back then) offered higher rates soon after which helped out greatly. What speeds do you have?
fine, if it's not a phone and instead a pc att, then don't make us pay for airtime minutes.
the way the iphone is being treated is getting annoying. att is allowed to through all these restrictions on the usage because their precious 3G network can't handle basic hi volume traffic. fine. if att is allowed to treat the iphone as a unique device, then the fcc needs to step in and do the same - open up the iphone to any and all us carriers and let the consumers decide for themselves based on who has the best coverage in their respective areas. let it be the only device, due to its users heavy data usage, that isn't tied to a carrier subsidy like most new phones are these days.
If the iPhone is classified as a computer by AT&T and they do not allow large amounts of streaming video for computers on their network, how is it that you are able to use slingbox, watch Hulu, etc. on a laptop with an aircard?
I'd say 250kbps-500Kbps of upload bandwidth is needed at the low end to be watchable and 700kbps-1Mbps for good quality. Any home router, especially wireless ones, along the path will add latency. And mobile networks will add their own latency and variances in throughput while offering no QoS.
The SlingPlayers I've seen for WinMo devices state that is needs a minimum of 120kbps, but it was not watchable.
Here is my AT&T 3G from Iowa...
edit: For comparison, I also did my hotel's WiFi network. While the latency is much lower, as expected, I'm getting less throughput than from AT&T. However, I am able to stream much more consistently than with AT&T's. This is the nature of the network.
If the iPhone is classified as a computer by AT&T and they do not allow large amounts of streaming video for computers on their network, how is it that you are able to use slingbox, watch Hulu, etc. on a laptop with an aircard?
Like almost everyone else, I call bullsh*t.
Maybe they will when they charge you $60/month for unlimited data.
How many people here actually own a SlingBox? Why is no one complaining about the cost of the app yet there will be rampant complaining when Apple charges $10 for the iPod Touch 3.0 update.
Because we're just trying to get through the issue of AT&T. The iPod Touch update is actually worth the price of $10 for OS 3.0. The question is whether my AT&T contract (who is the subject of this thread) is actually the worth the monthly costs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
They have been building it up, but they've also been selling more iPhones and smartphones are becoming more popular in general. You say that if that won't be able to handle the next iPhone yet you still think that their decision to not further bog down their network is bogus. I'd rather have the app not work on 3G than have my AT&T connections stunted from the saturation. You fail to consider that AT&T has planned for the next iPhone with it's rampant upgrades costing billions, but just can't support streaming TV for now. It's not like the iPhone's YouTube app which are short and use a lower quality depending on the connection, with this you could potentially have it streaming from your home 24/7.
They may be building it up but it is still lousy. So you're telling me the one device (iPhone) that is keeping AT&T from losing customers, is the only one that can't use Slingbox? It's ok every other smartphone on their network to use Slingbox except their premier product? Please do not mention YouTube. You can now stream TV shows and movies within YouTube and there will be much more of this content in the coming year. The Slingbox also adjusts the quality depending on the internet connection and has been doing this on EDGE for years. Read the Gizmodo review of the app. The fact is that AT&T has lousy coverage. It doesn't matter that you mention billions because whatever the amount is, Verizon must have invested twice as much because their network is twice as good. BTW if you think that people would stream Slingbox 24/7 on a 3.5" screen with a device where we already struggle with battery life, you're crazy.
Windows,Blackberry, Palm, & Symbian have done this for years and suddenly now they are complaining about congestion? Don't say that the iPhone is somehow different. Slingbox is not incredibly difficult to use on any of these platforms which is why Sling is popular. There are countless YouTube videos of people demoing their Sling app on their non-iPhone. The day when ends this exclusivity will be a great day. They should get off their ass and make a CDMA phone. If companies 1/10 their size (Palm & Blackberry) can do multiple carrier phones, should also do it.
BTW AT&T, if you feel that the iPhone is not a phone, you should allow customers to purchase just the data plan. I'll be happy to use Skype instead of your overpriced cellular plans.
AT&T are quickly turning many iphone fans off. Not only are they using a clear double standard but they lie in every add that says they have the best coverage. ATT blows hard.
I'm done with AT&T as of this. Not only is the action pure hypocrisy , they now have the nerve to release a PR statement to shed light on it.
Yup. It is past time for Apple to unlock the iPhone and let their customers choose other GSM providers in the US like Sprint and T-Mobile when ATT wants to screw over iPhone users.
Because we're just trying to get through the issue of AT&T. The iPod Touch update is actually worth the price of $10 for OS 3.0. The question is whether my AT&T contract (who is the subject of this thread) is actually the worth the monthly costs.
I see no reason to question your iPhone AT&T contract because of this. It wasn't there when you go the iPhone nor was it promised.
BTW, there was a way of using your carrier's IP address to create an ad-hoc network that tricks WiFi only apps into using the cellular data network. Not sure if it still works.
Quote:
They may be building it up but it is still lousy. So you're telling me the one device (iPhone) that is keeping AT&T from losing customers, is the only one that can't use Slingbox? It's ok every other smartphone on their network to use Slingbox except their premier product? Please do not mention YouTube. You can now stream TV shows and movies within YouTube and there will be much more of this content in the coming year. The Slingbox also adjusts the quality depending on the internet connection and has been doing this on EDGE for years. Read the Gizmodo review of the app. The fact is that AT&T has lousy coverage. It doesn't matter that you mention billions because whatever the amount is, Verizon must have invested twice as much because their network is twice as good. BTW if you think that people would stream Slingbox 24/7 on a 3.5" screen with a device where we already struggle with battery life, you're crazy.
Windows,Blackberry, Palm, & Symbian have done this for years and suddenly now they are complaining about congestion? Don't say that the iPhone is somehow different. Slingbox is not incredibly difficult to use on any of these platforms which is why Sling is popular. There are countless YouTube videos of people demoing their Sling app on their non-iPhone. The day when ends this exclusivity will be a great day. They should get off their ass and make a CDMA phone. If companies 1/10 their size (Palm & Blackberry) can do multiple carrier phones, should also do it.
This recent article states that the iPhone uses 4x the amount of data and that the network cost increase by $6B annually yet the revenue will not even be close to that.
12% of their 87M subscribers are apparently using iPhones. That is a lot to keep up with. AT&T would be remiss if they didn't consider the possible hazards with allowing apps to do whatever we want because we say so. My example of SlingMedia running 24/7 assumed it being plugged, obviously, and it wasn't a practical situation, but judging how an app that could use the bandwidth excessively needs to be evaluated.
And what about the hypocrisy of your post and others on this thread. You state that AT&T network is lousy, but then complain when they don't allow an app that would make their network more lousy. If you want to take a stance that their network is great and they should allow the app, fine. If you want to take a stance that their network is lousy and should use this app, fine. But you can't have it both way and expect to make sense. AT&T does suck in some areas, it's good in others, I have anecdotal knowledge of their network improving, but it's certainly not good enough for a SlingPlayer on the iPhone.
Comments
At least they are being honest with you by saying that they can't handle the traffic.
Apple is tight lipped, people complain. AT&T gives us a reason, people complain.
I'm beyond ridiculing AT&T's crappy 3G network, so I won't even go there... The real issue that pisses me off is the fact that:
It's one thing for the carriers to advertise "unlimited data" when in reality it is limited to 5GB.
It's a whole other leap into idiocy for them to actually place restrictions on what you can do with that 5GB of data!
And then to use their partnership with Apple and Apple's monopoly on App sales to force Sling to modify their application? It is just lunacy!
It's time to break up the AT&T iPhone monopoly!
1) It is not limited to 5GB I use considerably more than that on both my iPhone and 3G USB card from AT&T.
2) The iPhone is not a monopoly in anyway. It's exclusive to AT&T in the US, that is it. There are plenty of smartphones out there, and the iPhone isn't even the most popular selling model this past quarter.
Randall Stephenson, AT&T CEO
[email protected] (direct)
[email protected]
phone: 210-351-5401 (direct to his secretary)
fax 210-351-3553
alternate phone: 210-821-4105 (headquarters, press 3, ask for Mr. Stephenson's office)
175 E. Houston
San Antonio, TX 78205
Let him know how you feel.
That is a potentially good way to complain. Well done.
For anyone who wants to understand this better, I recommend the Econ 101 concept of the 'tragedy of the commons.' (For the short-attention-span version, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons; for the real thing, see http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/reprint/162/3859/1243.pdf).
I have a feeling that no one who should click that link will click it.
many already view the seemingly arbitrary treatment of the iPhone as more a reflection of AT&T's ability to support an especially popular device....
Don't you mean "a reflection of AT&T's inability to support..."?
How so?
ATT sold me an "Unlimited Data Plan"... those specific words are used in my CONTRACT.
So... is it unlimited or isn't it???
ATT knew the capabilities of the device when the signed on as the exclusive provider... then they advertised an UNLIMITED data plan... knowing full well what that would entail. People have every right to be pissed-off about these kinds of things. (limiting Apps, and poor network quality.)
The tethering I can understand... that "data" is being used by a device other than the iPhone.
You have unlimited data to use the phone as it's allowed. SlingPlayer is not allowed on 3G by Apple's App Store, which I'm sure is their contract with each other about apps that potentially cripple their network. NO ONE IS LIMITED YOUR DATA. IT'S STILL UNLIMITED. In fact, by doing this your unlimited data is being preserved. If such apps were forced to be allowed how long before AT&T would be stop the unlimited plans for iPhones and/or would start throttling the data to make streaming impossible?
People need to catch a breath and cut ATT a little slack (granted, they are not making it easy for someone to defend them with their inanely stupid PR)....
Agreed on the PR. They should be embarrassed. It makes it sound like their network is held together with spit and scotch tape. They're A T & T !!! Not Dunder Miflin Telephone. Don't they have any pride? Your stock symbol is T ! Act like it !
How many people have a slingbox? How many people are going to get a slingbox if AT&T opens the iPhone to it? Enough to kill the network? The network must really be holding on by its fingernails.
What happened to the big push by AT&T to increase capacity for some mystery change coming to the iPhone?
If I had a slingbox I'd wonder how it would do with the turtle-slow upload speed I pay Time Warner for. Does anyone have trouble with that?
I love the way all the "stockholders" on here will defend AT&T to the end as it would impinge on their Apple "profits" for AT&T to fail. So sad.
Why did you put stockholders and profits in quotation marks? To paraphrase a great line - I don't think those mean what you think they mean.
Agreed on the PR. They should be embarrassed. It makes it sound like their network is held together with spit and scotch tape. They're A T & T !!! Not Dunder Miflin Telephone.
Dunder Miflin is profitable, the Michael Scott Telephone Company would be more apropos.
What happened to the big push by AT&T to increase capacity for some mystery change coming to the iPhone?
They have. I have noticed wicked speed increases in both uploading and downloading. In fact, my upload speeds on AT&T show that their network have enabled Category 5 HSUPA which is 2Mbps up in many markets. It's the fastest my 3G card supports so I don't know if they support a higher category or not, though I would doubt it.
If I had a slingbox I'd wonder how it would do with the turtle-slow upload speed Time Warner gives me. Does anyone have trouble with that?
When I first got mine it was pretty bad. Luckily, Brighthouse/TWC (forget which one it was back then) offered higher rates soon after which helped out greatly. What speeds do you have?
Apple is tight lipped, people complain. AT&T gives us a reason, people complain.
True enough!
Being the same company that acted as though warrantless government surveillance was not illegal when it was, of course they can say the iPhone is not a phone when it is. Small potatoes by comparison.
The were really late updating their clause. I don't think that anyone will deny that the iPhone uses an excessive amount of data compared to other phones. they should have predicted this ahead of time.
...When I first got mine it was pretty bad. Luckily, Brighthouse/TWC (forget which one it was back then) offered higher rates soon after which helped out greatly. What speeds do you have?
How would Slingbox do with this??
http://www.speedtest.net/result/472327732.png
the way the iphone is being treated is getting annoying. att is allowed to through all these restrictions on the usage because their precious 3G network can't handle basic hi volume traffic. fine. if att is allowed to treat the iphone as a unique device, then the fcc needs to step in and do the same - open up the iphone to any and all us carriers and let the consumers decide for themselves based on who has the best coverage in their respective areas. let it be the only device, due to its users heavy data usage, that isn't tied to a carrier subsidy like most new phones are these days.
Like almost everyone else, I call bullsh*t.
How would Slingbox do with this??
http://www.speedtest.net/result/472327732.png
I'd say 250kbps-500Kbps of upload bandwidth is needed at the low end to be watchable and 700kbps-1Mbps for good quality. Any home router, especially wireless ones, along the path will add latency. And mobile networks will add their own latency and variances in throughput while offering no QoS.
The SlingPlayers I've seen for WinMo devices state that is needs a minimum of 120kbps, but it was not watchable.
Here is my AT&T 3G from Iowa... edit: For comparison, I also did my hotel's WiFi network. While the latency is much lower, as expected, I'm getting less throughput than from AT&T. However, I am able to stream much more consistently than with AT&T's. This is the nature of the network.
If the iPhone is classified as a computer by AT&T and they do not allow large amounts of streaming video for computers on their network, how is it that you are able to use slingbox, watch Hulu, etc. on a laptop with an aircard?
Like almost everyone else, I call bullsh*t.
Maybe they will when they charge you $60/month for unlimited data.
How many people here actually own a SlingBox? Why is no one complaining about the cost of the app yet there will be rampant complaining when Apple charges $10 for the iPod Touch 3.0 update.
Because we're just trying to get through the issue of AT&T. The iPod Touch update is actually worth the price of $10 for OS 3.0. The question is whether my AT&T contract (who is the subject of this thread) is actually the worth the monthly costs.
They have been building it up, but they've also been selling more iPhones and smartphones are becoming more popular in general. You say that if that won't be able to handle the next iPhone yet you still think that their decision to not further bog down their network is bogus. I'd rather have the app not work on 3G than have my AT&T connections stunted from the saturation. You fail to consider that AT&T has planned for the next iPhone with it's rampant upgrades costing billions, but just can't support streaming TV for now. It's not like the iPhone's YouTube app which are short and use a lower quality depending on the connection, with this you could potentially have it streaming from your home 24/7.
They may be building it up but it is still lousy. So you're telling me the one device (iPhone) that is keeping AT&T from losing customers, is the only one that can't use Slingbox? It's ok every other smartphone on their network to use Slingbox except their premier product? Please do not mention YouTube. You can now stream TV shows and movies within YouTube and there will be much more of this content in the coming year. The Slingbox also adjusts the quality depending on the internet connection and has been doing this on EDGE for years. Read the Gizmodo review of the app. The fact is that AT&T has lousy coverage. It doesn't matter that you mention billions because whatever the amount is, Verizon must have invested twice as much because their network is twice as good. BTW if you think that people would stream Slingbox 24/7 on a 3.5" screen with a device where we already struggle with battery life, you're crazy.
Windows,Blackberry, Palm, & Symbian have done this for years and suddenly now they are complaining about congestion? Don't say that the iPhone is somehow different. Slingbox is not incredibly difficult to use on any of these platforms which is why Sling is popular. There are countless YouTube videos of people demoing their Sling app on their non-iPhone. The day when ends this exclusivity will be a great day. They should get off their ass and make a CDMA phone. If companies 1/10 their size (Palm & Blackberry) can do multiple carrier phones, should also do it.
I'm done with AT&T as of this. Not only is the action pure hypocrisy , they now have the nerve to release a PR statement to shed light on it.
Yup. It is past time for Apple to unlock the iPhone and let their customers choose other GSM providers in the US like Sprint and T-Mobile when ATT wants to screw over iPhone users.
Because we're just trying to get through the issue of AT&T. The iPod Touch update is actually worth the price of $10 for OS 3.0. The question is whether my AT&T contract (who is the subject of this thread) is actually the worth the monthly costs.
I see no reason to question your iPhone AT&T contract because of this. It wasn't there when you go the iPhone nor was it promised.
BTW, there was a way of using your carrier's IP address to create an ad-hoc network that tricks WiFi only apps into using the cellular data network. Not sure if it still works.
They may be building it up but it is still lousy. So you're telling me the one device (iPhone) that is keeping AT&T from losing customers, is the only one that can't use Slingbox? It's ok every other smartphone on their network to use Slingbox except their premier product? Please do not mention YouTube. You can now stream TV shows and movies within YouTube and there will be much more of this content in the coming year. The Slingbox also adjusts the quality depending on the internet connection and has been doing this on EDGE for years. Read the Gizmodo review of the app. The fact is that AT&T has lousy coverage. It doesn't matter that you mention billions because whatever the amount is, Verizon must have invested twice as much because their network is twice as good. BTW if you think that people would stream Slingbox 24/7 on a 3.5" screen with a device where we already struggle with battery life, you're crazy.
Windows,Blackberry, Palm, & Symbian have done this for years and suddenly now they are complaining about congestion? Don't say that the iPhone is somehow different. Slingbox is not incredibly difficult to use on any of these platforms which is why Sling is popular. There are countless YouTube videos of people demoing their Sling app on their non-iPhone. The day when ends this exclusivity will be a great day. They should get off their ass and make a CDMA phone. If companies 1/10 their size (Palm & Blackberry) can do multiple carrier phones, should also do it.
This recent article states that the iPhone uses 4x the amount of data and that the network cost increase by $6B annually yet the revenue will not even be close to that.
12% of their 87M subscribers are apparently using iPhones. That is a lot to keep up with. AT&T would be remiss if they didn't consider the possible hazards with allowing apps to do whatever we want because we say so. My example of SlingMedia running 24/7 assumed it being plugged, obviously, and it wasn't a practical situation, but judging how an app that could use the bandwidth excessively needs to be evaluated.
And what about the hypocrisy of your post and others on this thread. You state that AT&T network is lousy, but then complain when they don't allow an app that would make their network more lousy. If you want to take a stance that their network is great and they should allow the app, fine. If you want to take a stance that their network is lousy and should use this app, fine. But you can't have it both way and expect to make sense. AT&T does suck in some areas, it's good in others, I have anecdotal knowledge of their network improving, but it's certainly not good enough for a SlingPlayer on the iPhone.