These are all very good thoughts and questions. Honestly, unless the polls are *grossly* wrong, I can't understand Apple's decision [?]
Neither can I, but only a fool (not referring to you but to certain people here) will blatantly make solute statements about how wrong Apple is without first considering what their reasoning could be. While the poll has the disservice of being an internet-based poll on a tech-based site, it?s quite a large number. Unless that poll was easily hacked to allow for the numbers to be misrepresented it would appear that matte has a large enough preference to be an included option. Or at least a hybrid solution that equally pisses off both camps.
Apple knows that glossy screen has glaring issues. How do I know? Because they have an anti-glare option for the 17" MacBook Pro. They just don't want to admit the issue because many ignorant consumers like the glossy screen.
There are at least as many ignorant people who like to make illogical assertions on subjects of discussion as there are people who are ignorant about technology. Rather than addressing "issues", Apple, being a business, is offering an option to satisfy customers who have a particular preference for a screen type.
Before I bought my 17" glossy-screen MBP, I checked with several people that I knew that had them. They told me that they had compared the differences between the two screen types and just preferred the glossy. There is a graphics designer whom I know who has an older matte screen MBP and really likes my glossy screen and plans to get one in the near future. Before I bought mine, I went to my local Apple store and compared same-screen images side by side on both types of screens in detail. I came away with the preference for the glossy screen and that's what I got.
I am well aware of the greater reflectivity of the glossy screen in high ambient light conditions, but it just hasn't been a bothersome issue for me. I wouldn't say that either screen is better than the other, each has its strengths and weaknesses, but it boils down to a matter of individual preference. For the people who can't stand glossy screens, I'm glad that there is a matte option. I wouldn't deride them as "ignorant" for having a choice for a particular screen that differs from my own. It would be arrogant and ignorant of me to assume that my particular preference was absolutely right and anyone else who differed was wrong.
To me, Apple's policy demonstrates respect for its customers desires and needs. Respect is a oood thing for a company to have for its customers. As users of Apple's products, and in general as people, respect is a good thing for us to have for each other. I hope that you are happy and satisfied with whatever your choice of screen is.
If I didn't make myself clear earlier, than I will make it clear here in context. What I'm trying to say is that Apple is not addressing the acknowledged glare issue that can be fixed or improved on particular on the Macbook Pro glossy screens because many ignorant users like the glossy screen are either not able to acknowledge or just simply ignoring the glare issue on Macbook Pros, which is an ignorant action itself. If you don't agree, that's fine with me, as long as you don't pull statements out from thin air and accuse me of saying such statements like some people are doing.
The quote you took from me is nowhere equivalent to "all glossy screens in the world are necessarily a worse option than any matte screen." or "all glossy screens in the world have no pros just because of a glare issue on the Macbook Pro." or "all glossy screen users are ignorant." Please read carefully before responding and stop arguing against something that I'm not arguing about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by physics
There are at least as many ignorant people who like to make illogical assertions on subjects of discussion as there are people who are ignorant about technology. Rather than addressing "issues", Apple, being a business, is offering an option to satisfy customers who have a particular preference for a screen type.
Before I bought my 17" glossy-screen MBP, I checked with several people that I knew that had them. They told me that they had compared the differences between the two screen types and just preferred the glossy. There is a graphics designer whom I know who has an older matte screen MBP and really likes my glossy screen and plans to get one in the near future. Before I bought mine, I went to my local Apple store and compared same-screen images side by side on both types of screens in detail. I came away with the preference for the glossy screen and that's what I got.
I am well aware of the greater reflectivity of the glossy screen in high ambient light conditions, but it just hasn't been a bothersome issue for me. I wouldn't say that either screen is better than the other, each has its strengths and weaknesses, but it boils down to a matter of individual preference. For the people who can't stand glossy screens, I'm glad that there is a matte option. I wouldn't deride them as "ignorant" for having a choice for a particular screen that differs from my own. It would be arrogant and ignorant of me to assume that my particular preference was absolutely right and anyone else who differed was wrong.
To me, Apple's policy demonstrates respect for its customers desires and needs. Respect is a oood thing for a company to have for its customers. As users of Apple's products, and in general as people, respect is a good thing for us to have for each other. I hope that you are happy and satisfied with whatever your choice of screen is.
It’s that ol’ ingrained glossy-liking ignorance in me.
Jesus Christ,
draw a Venn diagram and take it to a back room.
EDIT: As it happens, I would prefer not to have a glossy screen but frankly you ain't gettin' a lot of choice from Apple in the form factor I'm buying. It doesn't fuss me too much now but initially the reflections were quite distracting. I don't understand how professionals (and in the Mac sense, these professional are anecdotally print media or movie making type can produce color correct output using the screens currently in use. Anything off centre and they're out of calibration.
EDIT EDIT: To be On Topic - OH&S - Occupational Health and Safety is a big driver in the government workplaces. Such information is hardly newsworthy, in Australia at least.
Wow, so easy to say, but a laptop is designed for mobility. Unless you have a fixed desk with ideal lighting, how are you supposed to achieve "not working in an environment that has a lot of light sources to create glare or reflections that would distract you"?
I own a laptop so I can work wherever I'm at, be it in a client's office, a coffee shop, or at home. And "at home" can mean any comfortable seat in the house. Are you saying I should sacrifice all that flexibility? I might as well go back to a friggin' desktop (and deal with all kinds of bad back issues)!
Um, that's why it's portable, you can move it. I use mine all the time at places like you mention. If the light is bad, I move. I used to think that glossy would be terrible and I would have so many problems with reflections and glare, but so far I haven't. For me, it's not an issue, but if you want to work outside by the pool at noon, it might be a problem. So would a matte screen. So unless you are sitting somewhere where there are tons of overhead lights that are hitting you like a prisoner during a breakout, I doubt it will bother you.
What can I say? The misunderstanding is not even based on any hard fact but on people's subjective feeling that I want to condemn all glossy screens and their users just because I said "many ignorant users like glossy screen."....
Ignorant of the benefits of the matte screen in reducing reflections, consumers are more likely to buy glossy displays because of their attractive qualities.
There are at least as many ignorant people who like to make illogical assertions on subjects of discussion as there are people who are ignorant about technology. Rather than addressing "issues", Apple, being a business, is offering an option to satisfy customers who have a particular preference for a screen type.
Before I bought my 17" glossy-screen MBP, I checked with several people that I knew that had them. They told me that they had compared the differences between the two screen types and just preferred the glossy. There is a graphics designer whom I know who has an older matte screen MBP and really likes my glossy screen and plans to get one in the near future. Before I bought mine, I went to my local Apple store and compared same-screen images side by side on both types of screens in detail. I came away with the preference for the glossy screen and that's what I got.
I am well aware of the greater reflectivity of the glossy screen in high ambient light conditions, but it just hasn't been a bothersome issue for me. I wouldn't say that either screen is better than the other, each has its strengths and weaknesses, but it boils down to a matter of individual preference. For the people who can't stand glossy screens, I'm glad that there is a matte option. I wouldn't deride them as "ignorant" for having a choice for a particular screen that differs from my own. It would be arrogant and ignorant of me to assume that my particular preference was absolutely right and anyone else who differed was wrong.
To me, Apple's policy demonstrates respect for its customers desires and needs. Respect is a oood thing for a company to have for its customers. As users of Apple's products, and in general as people, respect is a good thing for us to have for each other. I hope that you are happy and satisfied with whatever your choice of screen is.
That is how I came to the same conclusion. Comparing the glossy to my old matte.
Ignorant of the benefits of the matte screen in reducing reflections, consumers are more likely to buy glossy displays because of their attractive qualities.
Fixed. Now bedtime....zzzz
Fixed... Apple knows that glossy screen on their Macbook Pro has glare issues that can be fixed. Still, that doesn't effect the contextual message I'm trying to get across unless readers want to read sentences out of contexts.
At least, there are people that can get what I'm saying.
Hey I was just wondering if you guys could go back and forth about 1,000 more times about how you hate each other making this the single longest two-person thread in AI history? Just saying get a room or something I hear that angry love can be therapeutic .
I could not agree more; solipsism and mechengit are simply killing this thread. You guys are like a tsunami here, chill please.
So I'm ignorant because I happen to like glossy screens? I really don't have issues with glare and I have both a unibody MacBook and a 24" Aluminum iMac. Just because you don't like them, doesn't mean everyone else is a moron for liking them. You need to think outside the box and not just in your own little world.
The fact that Apple sells millions of Macs every quarter with glossy screens tells me that people happen to like them. There is a small crowd (and a very loud one) that doesn't like them. The fact that they voice their opinion very loud makes this crowd bigger than it really is. If there was a problem people wouldn't be buying these products.
You may or may not be (ignorant on this problem with glossy screens). But the fact that many people like or dislike something, doesn't mean they're not ignorant. I guess people don't buy cigarettes anymore then? (you know the "a million flies can't be wrong..." thing right?)
The fact that you like glossy screens (because they're beatiful or something else to that effect) with other people of a like mind doesn't make you "not ignorant". Once you get you back or neck messed up due to having to sit in ankward positions for extended periods of time just to have a beatiful screen, you'll know.
A university's task is to research all kinds of stuff and the amount of sick days and visits to the doctor/chiropractor they'll may have to pay due to bad posture makes a notice like this worth while. It really has nothing to do with _just_ Apple. More with generic health (much like tobacco warnings for the ignorant people who still say "no cancer cause it looks cool").
...With this Queensland University of Technology report, combined with numerous user reports and preferences, the very slight color benefits of glossy displays doesn't seem outweigh the need to eliminate reflections.
Most people don't need the sharper contrasts etc., so bad that it obstructs the use of the computer. Apple can go ahead and make glossy displays, and say 10 to 1 buy them over matte, but if they are not offering the customer a full range of choices, then that's sort of skewing the results in the favor of glossy.
After all, who's counting the matte screen users who simply walks out of a Apple Store in disgust?
NO MATTE? - NO SALE!!
"Any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants so long as it is black." - Henry Ford
"Our customers love the glossy displays" - Philip Schiller
Wow, a fantastic post. Yes, no one's counting those users who will either buy some other brand (probably few) or just hold off purchasing indefinitely (probably many, but no one, not even Apple, would have a solid estimate on that one).
I fall into the latter camp. There's nothing Apple makes that I can use right now. I need portability, and a screen that I can actually use for more than 10 minutes without going insane. Yes, the 17" does exist, but it's barely bordering on portable - just way too big for me to lug around.
And if this joke continues for too long, I will fall into the former camp. I'm perfectly able to create a hackintosh, although I strongly prefer not to.
Wow, so easy to say, but a laptop is designed for mobility. Unless you have a fixed desk with ideal lighting, how are you supposed to achieve "not working in an environment that has a lot of light sources to create glare or reflections that would distract you"?
I own a laptop so I can work wherever I'm at, be it in a client's office, a coffee shop, or at home. And "at home" can mean any comfortable seat in the house. Are you saying I should sacrifice all that flexibility? I might as well go back to a friggin' desktop (and deal with all kinds of bad back issues)!
Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerofTruth
Um, that's why it's portable, you can move it. I use mine all the time at places like you mention. If the light is bad, I move. I used to think that glossy would be terrible and I would have so many problems with reflections and glare, but so far I haven't. For me, it's not an issue, but if you want to work outside by the pool at noon, it might be a problem. So would a matte screen. So unless you are sitting somewhere where there are tons of overhead lights that are hitting you like a prisoner during a breakout, I doubt it will bother you.
I've used someone else's MacBook, in fairly typical environs, and I'm sorry, there just isn't a solution that involves slight tweaks to the angle of the laptop. I've found it virtually impossible to find ANY angle that doesn't show annoying reflections. The reflections DO exist on these glossy screens in almost every "normal" lighting situation, to some degree; it's just a matter of how bothersome they are to you. Apparently they don't bother you, and many others. Perhaps you can concentrate on your work with two bimbo college girls yakking incessantly right next to you as well. I cannot. But in that case at least one can move. With the glossy reflective screens, the problem follows you wherever you go!
I really wish Apple would offer the matte finish on all notebooks, if nothing else but to shut the vocal minority up.
And yes, you are in a minority - otherwise Apple would support both across the board. And no, I don't think glossy only notebooks have hurt their sales - just look at the growth rate in the notebook category vs. desktop and the success they had last quarter.
Wow, can you please share your insider knowledge of Apple's customer preferences? Other than making a wild-assed guess based upon utter speculation, do you have any substantive proof that more people prefer glossy over matte? Cause with those big bad bold minority comments, it sure sounds like you must have some amazing data that no one else is aware of! Please share!
Oh, and while you're at it, probably the closest thing any of us have (and it's not perfect by any means) to large scale data on user preferences is the MacPolls poll. So please explain this:
And no, it's very unlikely this poll was hacked, these guys are professionals and it doesn't take rocket scientists to detect that.
As I said earlier, these are probably not newbies or switchers, for the most part. If you include them you will probably get a much higher "don't care", but there's absolutely nothing that makes a case for more people actually preferring glossy. What there is a very good case for is that most people just don't give a shit, so Apple is building one model to make their lives easier. But they are ignoring a very substantial number of users, and I believe that they will eventually have a "change of heart".
...While the poll has the disservice of being an internet-based poll on a tech-based site, it?s quite a large number. Unless that poll was easily hacked to allow for the numbers to be misrepresented it would appear that matte has a large enough preference to be an included option. Or at least a hybrid solution that equally pisses off both camps.
I could not agree more; solipsism and mechengit are simply killing this thread. You guys are like a tsunami here, chill please.
Thanks it is getting out of control. I get passionate about this very topic but if you click the user you can select "send private message"and yell all week long.
Apple Profits: Glossy FTW and I cannot fault them for it because the new 'college and soccer dad' consumer group that seems to make up 90% of Apple's market now loves things extra bling-bling shiny.
My personal preference: Matte 100% I have a NEC 2690wuxi2 matte wide-gamut at home for my professional work and if they stopped producing matte monitors I'd find a new profession I am in the minority with a horrendous eye prescription and any glare/reflection/high brightness gives me migraines and I love that I can lower this mattle lcd way down and still calibrate it.
My personal issue is that I don't have an Apple portable right now (just the beastly Mac Pro) and I don't want a 17in for on-the-go just get a matte screen. I may just get a 15in and do the matte replacement but that is a last ditch hope.
Here is the problem with a matte screen: A side effect of the matte finish is a slight blurring, reduced contrast and a narrower viewing angle. Came directly from Popular Mechanics.
Slight blurring and reduced contrast are not really noticeable and the viewing angle is obviously a theoretical one because a whole load of angles that you choose to view a glossy display at, there is a very clear reflection over the image you are trying to see. I've actually had more real-world problems with viewing angle on a glossy than matte because you simply don't watch displays at extreme angles anyway and matte handles varied lighting conditions far better.
I think once the iphone 3GS hits the stores this week, we will be able to see the difference between the screen with the oleophobic coating that helps diffuse the light and the old 3G model. If it's significantly improved, I see no reason why Apple can't still sell glass, glossy screens with that coating applied on their Macs too.
I first mentioned the glare issues on Macbooks that Apple has acknowledged of. Does that mean I'm saying "glossy screen are definitely worse than matte and now only ignorant will use glossy screen. Glossy screen sucks and matte screen rules"? No. Ironically, you're the one who has been emphasizing the pros and cons of both sides!
I also mentioned that many ignorant consumers like the glossy screen in post #7. Does that mean I'm saying "whoever uses or likes glossy screen are ignorant"? Obviously not.
I'm glad that my words are recorded because it only goes to show your obviously inappropriate deduction.
By the way, I can say it again and again that many consumers, if not all, are ignorant. There, you have it and I can say that as many times as you like. That will not hide the fact that your misunderstanding is based on your own deduction.
Man, you are cracking me up and really made my day.
So that means whoever uses glossy screen are ignorant?
So does that mean I said that a glossy screen is necessarily a worse screen than a matte one?
Obviously not!
So that means whoever uses glossy screen are ignorant?
So does that mean I said that a glossy screen is necessarily a worse screen than a matte one?
Obviously not!
So that means whoever uses glossy screen are ignorant?
So does that mean I said that a glossy screen is necessarily a worse screen than a matte one?
Obviously not!
Oh... so that draws to the conclusion that whoever uses glossy screen are ignorant?
So does that mean I said that a glossy screen is necessarily a worse screen than a matte one?
Obviously not!
Man, you are really cracking me up. You not only misread once, but four times.
WTF
I LOVE GLOSSY SCREENS
IT PLAY MOVIES BACK IN A FINE MODE
sorry for screaming
glossy is so fine .
Are you saying i am stupid ??? Or did you buy glossy and feel stupid ?
The point of mentioning anti-glare option of the 17" Macbook Pro is to show that Apple acknowledge the glare issue on the glossy screen.
Wow, what a keen insight into the thought process of those at Apple. You care to back that assertion up with anything other then anecdotal evidence? Because I think they are just addressing a preference that some people have. Just like they only off the express card on the 17" MBP now too.
Just because you keep calling it a problem doesn't automatically make it a problem.
Quote:
Some people just like to tense up when they hear different opinions from theirs.
I'm glad you are acknowledging that. Admitting you have a problem is the first step in resolving it.
Wow, what a keen insight into the thought process of those at Apple. You care to back that assertion up with anything other then anecdotal evidence? Because I think they are just addressing a preference that some people have. Just like they only off the express card on the 17" MBP now too.[/i]
On that point, what are they saying about 17" MBP users, that is somehow not relevant to 13 and 15 inch MBP users?
Comments
These are all very good thoughts and questions. Honestly, unless the polls are *grossly* wrong, I can't understand Apple's decision [?]
Neither can I, but only a fool (not referring to you but to certain people here) will blatantly make solute statements about how wrong Apple is without first considering what their reasoning could be. While the poll has the disservice of being an internet-based poll on a tech-based site, it?s quite a large number. Unless that poll was easily hacked to allow for the numbers to be misrepresented it would appear that matte has a large enough preference to be an included option. Or at least a hybrid solution that equally pisses off both camps.
Apple knows that glossy screen has glaring issues. How do I know? Because they have an anti-glare option for the 17" MacBook Pro. They just don't want to admit the issue because many ignorant consumers like the glossy screen.
There are at least as many ignorant people who like to make illogical assertions on subjects of discussion as there are people who are ignorant about technology. Rather than addressing "issues", Apple, being a business, is offering an option to satisfy customers who have a particular preference for a screen type.
Before I bought my 17" glossy-screen MBP, I checked with several people that I knew that had them. They told me that they had compared the differences between the two screen types and just preferred the glossy. There is a graphics designer whom I know who has an older matte screen MBP and really likes my glossy screen and plans to get one in the near future. Before I bought mine, I went to my local Apple store and compared same-screen images side by side on both types of screens in detail. I came away with the preference for the glossy screen and that's what I got.
I am well aware of the greater reflectivity of the glossy screen in high ambient light conditions, but it just hasn't been a bothersome issue for me. I wouldn't say that either screen is better than the other, each has its strengths and weaknesses, but it boils down to a matter of individual preference. For the people who can't stand glossy screens, I'm glad that there is a matte option. I wouldn't deride them as "ignorant" for having a choice for a particular screen that differs from my own. It would be arrogant and ignorant of me to assume that my particular preference was absolutely right and anyone else who differed was wrong.
To me, Apple's policy demonstrates respect for its customers desires and needs. Respect is a oood thing for a company to have for its customers. As users of Apple's products, and in general as people, respect is a good thing for us to have for each other. I hope that you are happy and satisfied with whatever your choice of screen is.
The quote you took from me is nowhere equivalent to "all glossy screens in the world are necessarily a worse option than any matte screen." or "all glossy screens in the world have no pros just because of a glare issue on the Macbook Pro." or "all glossy screen users are ignorant." Please read carefully before responding and stop arguing against something that I'm not arguing about.
There are at least as many ignorant people who like to make illogical assertions on subjects of discussion as there are people who are ignorant about technology. Rather than addressing "issues", Apple, being a business, is offering an option to satisfy customers who have a particular preference for a screen type.
Before I bought my 17" glossy-screen MBP, I checked with several people that I knew that had them. They told me that they had compared the differences between the two screen types and just preferred the glossy. There is a graphics designer whom I know who has an older matte screen MBP and really likes my glossy screen and plans to get one in the near future. Before I bought mine, I went to my local Apple store and compared same-screen images side by side on both types of screens in detail. I came away with the preference for the glossy screen and that's what I got.
I am well aware of the greater reflectivity of the glossy screen in high ambient light conditions, but it just hasn't been a bothersome issue for me. I wouldn't say that either screen is better than the other, each has its strengths and weaknesses, but it boils down to a matter of individual preference. For the people who can't stand glossy screens, I'm glad that there is a matte option. I wouldn't deride them as "ignorant" for having a choice for a particular screen that differs from my own. It would be arrogant and ignorant of me to assume that my particular preference was absolutely right and anyone else who differed was wrong.
To me, Apple's policy demonstrates respect for its customers desires and needs. Respect is a oood thing for a company to have for its customers. As users of Apple's products, and in general as people, respect is a good thing for us to have for each other. I hope that you are happy and satisfied with whatever your choice of screen is.
It’s that ol’ ingrained glossy-liking ignorance in me.
Jesus Christ,
draw a Venn diagram and take it to a back room.
EDIT: As it happens, I would prefer not to have a glossy screen but frankly you ain't gettin' a lot of choice from Apple in the form factor I'm buying. It doesn't fuss me too much now but initially the reflections were quite distracting. I don't understand how professionals (and in the Mac sense, these professional are anecdotally print media or movie making type can produce color correct output using the screens currently in use. Anything off centre and they're out of calibration.
EDIT EDIT: To be On Topic - OH&S - Occupational Health and Safety is a big driver in the government workplaces. Such information is hardly newsworthy, in Australia at least.
Wow, so easy to say, but a laptop is designed for mobility. Unless you have a fixed desk with ideal lighting, how are you supposed to achieve "not working in an environment that has a lot of light sources to create glare or reflections that would distract you"?
I own a laptop so I can work wherever I'm at, be it in a client's office, a coffee shop, or at home. And "at home" can mean any comfortable seat in the house. Are you saying I should sacrifice all that flexibility? I might as well go back to a friggin' desktop (and deal with all kinds of bad back issues)!
Um, that's why it's portable, you can move it. I use mine all the time at places like you mention. If the light is bad, I move. I used to think that glossy would be terrible and I would have so many problems with reflections and glare, but so far I haven't. For me, it's not an issue, but if you want to work outside by the pool at noon, it might be a problem. So would a matte screen. So unless you are sitting somewhere where there are tons of overhead lights that are hitting you like a prisoner during a breakout, I doubt it will bother you.
What can I say? The misunderstanding is not even based on any hard fact but on people's subjective feeling that I want to condemn all glossy screens and their users just because I said "many ignorant users like glossy screen."....
Ignorant of the benefits of the matte screen in reducing reflections, consumers are more likely to buy glossy displays because of their attractive qualities.
Fixed. Now bedtime....zzzz
There are at least as many ignorant people who like to make illogical assertions on subjects of discussion as there are people who are ignorant about technology. Rather than addressing "issues", Apple, being a business, is offering an option to satisfy customers who have a particular preference for a screen type.
Before I bought my 17" glossy-screen MBP, I checked with several people that I knew that had them. They told me that they had compared the differences between the two screen types and just preferred the glossy. There is a graphics designer whom I know who has an older matte screen MBP and really likes my glossy screen and plans to get one in the near future. Before I bought mine, I went to my local Apple store and compared same-screen images side by side on both types of screens in detail. I came away with the preference for the glossy screen and that's what I got.
I am well aware of the greater reflectivity of the glossy screen in high ambient light conditions, but it just hasn't been a bothersome issue for me. I wouldn't say that either screen is better than the other, each has its strengths and weaknesses, but it boils down to a matter of individual preference. For the people who can't stand glossy screens, I'm glad that there is a matte option. I wouldn't deride them as "ignorant" for having a choice for a particular screen that differs from my own. It would be arrogant and ignorant of me to assume that my particular preference was absolutely right and anyone else who differed was wrong.
To me, Apple's policy demonstrates respect for its customers desires and needs. Respect is a oood thing for a company to have for its customers. As users of Apple's products, and in general as people, respect is a good thing for us to have for each other. I hope that you are happy and satisfied with whatever your choice of screen is.
That is how I came to the same conclusion. Comparing the glossy to my old matte.
Ignorant of the benefits of the matte screen in reducing reflections, consumers are more likely to buy glossy displays because of their attractive qualities.
Fixed. Now bedtime....zzzz
Fixed... Apple knows that glossy screen on their Macbook Pro has glare issues that can be fixed. Still, that doesn't effect the contextual message I'm trying to get across unless readers want to read sentences out of contexts.
At least, there are people that can get what I'm saying.
Hey I was just wondering if you guys could go back and forth about 1,000 more times about how you hate each other making this the single longest two-person thread in AI history? Just saying get a room or something I hear that angry love can be therapeutic
I could not agree more; solipsism and mechengit are simply killing this thread. You guys are like a tsunami here, chill please.
Such an ignorant post....
So I'm ignorant because I happen to like glossy screens? I really don't have issues with glare and I have both a unibody MacBook and a 24" Aluminum iMac. Just because you don't like them, doesn't mean everyone else is a moron for liking them. You need to think outside the box and not just in your own little world.
The fact that Apple sells millions of Macs every quarter with glossy screens tells me that people happen to like them. There is a small crowd (and a very loud one) that doesn't like them. The fact that they voice their opinion very loud makes this crowd bigger than it really is. If there was a problem people wouldn't be buying these products.
You may or may not be (ignorant on this problem with glossy screens). But the fact that many people like or dislike something, doesn't mean they're not ignorant. I guess people don't buy cigarettes anymore then? (you know the "a million flies can't be wrong..." thing right?)
The fact that you like glossy screens (because they're beatiful or something else to that effect) with other people of a like mind doesn't make you "not ignorant". Once you get you back or neck messed up due to having to sit in ankward positions for extended periods of time just to have a beatiful screen, you'll know.
A university's task is to research all kinds of stuff and the amount of sick days and visits to the doctor/chiropractor they'll may have to pay due to bad posture makes a notice like this worth while. It really has nothing to do with _just_ Apple. More with generic health (much like tobacco warnings for the ignorant people who still say "no cancer cause it looks cool").
Regs, Jarkko
...With this Queensland University of Technology report, combined with numerous user reports and preferences, the very slight color benefits of glossy displays doesn't seem outweigh the need to eliminate reflections.
Most people don't need the sharper contrasts etc., so bad that it obstructs the use of the computer. Apple can go ahead and make glossy displays, and say 10 to 1 buy them over matte, but if they are not offering the customer a full range of choices, then that's sort of skewing the results in the favor of glossy.
After all, who's counting the matte screen users who simply walks out of a Apple Store in disgust?
NO MATTE? - NO SALE!!
"Any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants so long as it is black." - Henry Ford
"Our customers love the glossy displays" - Philip Schiller
Wow, a fantastic post. Yes, no one's counting those users who will either buy some other brand (probably few) or just hold off purchasing indefinitely (probably many, but no one, not even Apple, would have a solid estimate on that one).
I fall into the latter camp. There's nothing Apple makes that I can use right now. I need portability, and a screen that I can actually use for more than 10 minutes without going insane. Yes, the 17" does exist, but it's barely bordering on portable - just way too big for me to lug around.
And if this joke continues for too long, I will fall into the former camp. I'm perfectly able to create a hackintosh, although I strongly prefer not to.
Wow, so easy to say, but a laptop is designed for mobility. Unless you have a fixed desk with ideal lighting, how are you supposed to achieve "not working in an environment that has a lot of light sources to create glare or reflections that would distract you"?
I own a laptop so I can work wherever I'm at, be it in a client's office, a coffee shop, or at home. And "at home" can mean any comfortable seat in the house. Are you saying I should sacrifice all that flexibility? I might as well go back to a friggin' desktop (and deal with all kinds of bad back issues)!
Um, that's why it's portable, you can move it. I use mine all the time at places like you mention. If the light is bad, I move. I used to think that glossy would be terrible and I would have so many problems with reflections and glare, but so far I haven't. For me, it's not an issue, but if you want to work outside by the pool at noon, it might be a problem. So would a matte screen. So unless you are sitting somewhere where there are tons of overhead lights that are hitting you like a prisoner during a breakout, I doubt it will bother you.
I've used someone else's MacBook, in fairly typical environs, and I'm sorry, there just isn't a solution that involves slight tweaks to the angle of the laptop. I've found it virtually impossible to find ANY angle that doesn't show annoying reflections. The reflections DO exist on these glossy screens in almost every "normal" lighting situation, to some degree; it's just a matter of how bothersome they are to you. Apparently they don't bother you, and many others. Perhaps you can concentrate on your work with two bimbo college girls yakking incessantly right next to you as well. I cannot. But in that case at least one can move. With the glossy reflective screens, the problem follows you wherever you go!
I really wish Apple would offer the matte finish on all notebooks, if nothing else but to shut the vocal minority up.
And yes, you are in a minority - otherwise Apple would support both across the board. And no, I don't think glossy only notebooks have hurt their sales - just look at the growth rate in the notebook category vs. desktop and the success they had last quarter.
Wow, can you please share your insider knowledge of Apple's customer preferences? Other than making a wild-assed guess based upon utter speculation, do you have any substantive proof that more people prefer glossy over matte? Cause with those big bad bold minority comments, it sure sounds like you must have some amazing data that no one else is aware of! Please share!
Oh, and while you're at it, probably the closest thing any of us have (and it's not perfect by any means) to large scale data on user preferences is the MacPolls poll. So please explain this:
http://www.macpolls.com/?poll_id=527
And no, it's very unlikely this poll was hacked, these guys are professionals and it doesn't take rocket scientists to detect that.
As I said earlier, these are probably not newbies or switchers, for the most part. If you include them you will probably get a much higher "don't care", but there's absolutely nothing that makes a case for more people actually preferring glossy. What there is a very good case for is that most people just don't give a shit, so Apple is building one model to make their lives easier. But they are ignoring a very substantial number of users, and I believe that they will eventually have a "change of heart".
...While the poll has the disservice of being an internet-based poll on a tech-based site, it?s quite a large number. Unless that poll was easily hacked to allow for the numbers to be misrepresented it would appear that matte has a large enough preference to be an included option. Or at least a hybrid solution that equally pisses off both camps.
Agreed!
Hey, are we all done now? :-)
I could not agree more; solipsism and mechengit are simply killing this thread. You guys are like a tsunami here, chill please.
Thanks it is getting out of control. I get passionate about this very topic but if you click the user you can select "send private message"and yell all week long.
Apple Profits: Glossy FTW and I cannot fault them for it because the new 'college and soccer dad' consumer group that seems to make up 90% of Apple's market now loves things extra bling-bling shiny.
My personal preference: Matte 100% I have a NEC 2690wuxi2 matte wide-gamut at home for my professional work and if they stopped producing matte monitors I'd find a new profession
My personal issue is that I don't have an Apple portable right now (just the beastly Mac Pro) and I don't want a 17in for on-the-go just get a matte screen. I may just get a 15in and do the matte replacement but that is a last ditch hope.
Here is the problem with a matte screen: A side effect of the matte finish is a slight blurring, reduced contrast and a narrower viewing angle. Came directly from Popular Mechanics.
Slight blurring and reduced contrast are not really noticeable and the viewing angle is obviously a theoretical one because a whole load of angles that you choose to view a glossy display at, there is a very clear reflection over the image you are trying to see. I've actually had more real-world problems with viewing angle on a glossy than matte because you simply don't watch displays at extreme angles anyway and matte handles varied lighting conditions far better.
I think once the iphone 3GS hits the stores this week, we will be able to see the difference between the screen with the oleophobic coating that helps diffuse the light and the old 3G model. If it's significantly improved, I see no reason why Apple can't still sell glass, glossy screens with that coating applied on their Macs too.
You still don't want to admit your inappropriate deductions? How pathetic.
From post #7
I first mentioned the glare issues on Macbooks that Apple has acknowledged of. Does that mean I'm saying "glossy screen are definitely worse than matte and now only ignorant will use glossy screen. Glossy screen sucks and matte screen rules"? No. Ironically, you're the one who has been emphasizing the pros and cons of both sides!
I also mentioned that many ignorant consumers like the glossy screen in post #7. Does that mean I'm saying "whoever uses or likes glossy screen are ignorant"? Obviously not.
I'm glad that my words are recorded because it only goes to show your obviously inappropriate deduction.
By the way, I can say it again and again that many consumers, if not all, are ignorant. There, you have it and I can say that as many times as you like. That will not hide the fact that your misunderstanding is based on your own deduction.
Man, you are cracking me up and really made my day.
So that means whoever uses glossy screen are ignorant?
So does that mean I said that a glossy screen is necessarily a worse screen than a matte one?
Obviously not!
So that means whoever uses glossy screen are ignorant?
So does that mean I said that a glossy screen is necessarily a worse screen than a matte one?
Obviously not!
So that means whoever uses glossy screen are ignorant?
So does that mean I said that a glossy screen is necessarily a worse screen than a matte one?
Obviously not!
Oh... so that draws to the conclusion that whoever uses glossy screen are ignorant?
So does that mean I said that a glossy screen is necessarily a worse screen than a matte one?
Obviously not!
Man, you are really cracking me up. You not only misread once, but four times.
WTF
I LOVE GLOSSY SCREENS
IT PLAY MOVIES BACK IN A FINE MODE
sorry for screaming
glossy is so fine .
Are you saying i am stupid ??? Or did you buy glossy and feel stupid ?
welcome to the boards
The point of mentioning anti-glare option of the 17" Macbook Pro is to show that Apple acknowledge the glare issue on the glossy screen.
Wow, what a keen insight into the thought process of those at Apple. You care to back that assertion up with anything other then anecdotal evidence? Because I think they are just addressing a preference that some people have. Just like they only off the express card on the 17" MBP now too.
Just because you keep calling it a problem doesn't automatically make it a problem.
Some people just like to tense up when they hear different opinions from theirs.
I'm glad you are acknowledging that. Admitting you have a problem is the first step in resolving it.
Wow, what a keen insight into the thought process of those at Apple. You care to back that assertion up with anything other then anecdotal evidence? Because I think they are just addressing a preference that some people have. Just like they only off the express card on the 17" MBP now too.[/i]
On that point, what are they saying about 17" MBP users, that is somehow not relevant to 13 and 15 inch MBP users?