The iPhone uses assisted GPS, yes it does require a wireless data connection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core
Until we can determine if the GPS on the iphone requires internet connection, would those using a GPS app post their Data Usage using the app over a given period, e.g., half hour, hour, etc.?
Suggest including the name of the app. Not sure if there is any difference if the iPhone is on 3G or Edge.
I don't think you're grasping my point entirely. It's merely a habit, thus hard to break. Unfortunately, there isn't a patch for it and in my line of work as a technician I MUST answer each phone call on my Sprint (Symbol PDA) device for work, otherwise we get into a lot of trouble. We don't live in a perfect world.
Heck NO! Not everyone should be on the phone or texting. Some have a hard enough time driving properly as it is. Not everyone is created equal. Some are natural athletes; I happen to have better than average vision and a great multi tasking ability. I know that sounds like complete BS and I don't expect you to believe that, but thats how I feel. You can't expect everybody to on the same level when it comes to doing things while they're driving.
Well, I wish you, and everyone around you, a lot of good fortune.
I took a driving course in high school some 20 years ago. Our driving instructor asked us statistically what percentage of drivers have an auto accident. 50% - 75% we guessed.
100% answered our instructor. Whether it's your fault or not it is inevitable.
Good for him, but I'm sure you know people yourself, just as I do that are well into their 80's who haven't had an accident.
The iPhone uses assisted GPS, yes it does require a wireless data connection.
If so, how much data is the iPhone drawing when using one of the new GPS apps, e.g., TomTom, MobileNavigator, CoPilot Live, Sygic Mobile Maps, or AT&T Navigator?
Obviously, AT&T Navigator will draw more, but it would still be interesting to see how much.
It would also be of interesr to measure the data usage using the iPhone Maps' app. The only problem is that it would have to be repeatedly poked to keep it activated for an extended period of time to get a relatively accurate reading.
The iPhone uses assisted GPS, yes it does require a wireless data connection.
Uses != requires.
It may require, but it is poor logic to say it requires it because it can use it. What are the specs of A-GPS? Are you sure that the specs state that a A-GPS unit will be completely non-functional without a live data connection? Would seem to be a poor spec if a function that is meant to enhance its performance is required for it to perform at all.
If so, how much data is the iPhone drawing when using one of the new GPS apps, e.g., TomTom, MobileNavigator, CoPilot Live, Sygic Mobile Maps, or AT&T Navigator?
You can easily look up how a-gps works, there is lots of information about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas
Uses != requires.
It may require, but it is poor logic to say it requires it because it can use it. What are the specs of A-GPS? Are you sure that the specs state that a A-GPS unit will be completely non-functional without a live data connection? Would seem to be a poor spec if a function that is meant to enhance its performance is required for it to perform at all.
You can easily look up how a-gps works, there is lots of information about it.
You are right, if the iPhone uses only A-GSP, then it will require data, as the A-GPS spec does not function at all without data. But, the iPhone has both standard GPS and A-GPS.
Any tests done with GPS by enabling Airplane mode are not valid and will fail, as Apple's docs state that GPS reception will be disabled. A better test would be to disable wifi, pull your SIM and test it out. The maps app will not show any graphics, unless you have your current location cached from your last launch of the app. I just tried it and it pin pointed me, though it took longer, as expected without the data assist.
Given that TomTom was probably one of the more anticipated GPS apps the $99 price point is a dissapointment given most folks probably were also intrested in the mount.
navigon is $69 on sale until 8/31 (unknown how map updates will work)
iGo My Way is $80 (free map updates until 2010)
CoPilot is $35
For the folks bad mouthing CoPilot here's a review:
"So is it worth the £26? Definitely. Co-Pilot is so far the best sat-nav app we've seen for the iPhone. If you've not already got a navigation app or a standalone device it's an absolute snip (though the in-built GPS chip is not the finest for walking or cycling). But, of course, the real question is whether the TomTom app is worth twice the cost. We'll bring you the skinny on that as soon as we can."
"The marker has been laid down for TomTom and for the life of me I cannot see how it can compete. IQ Routes is an advantage, but how does it attack an opponent who makes a solution so complete at a price point which is unfathomable.
Co-Pilot Live 8 is ‘spectacularly’ good and it still would be if it cost £60 for the UK version. At £25.99 for the UK version and £59.99 for Europe it is hard to comprehend the value buried in this application. It is the very best satellite navigation solution available on the iPhone at this time, and I suspect it will be in 6 months time as well."
"ALK has jumped into the iPhone navigation sector with a bang, and priced its Co-Pilot Live 8 solution very aggressively. You could be mistaken for thinking that £25.99 for the UK version is a printing error, but it is indeed completely real and this will put some serious pressure on the competition.
The danger is that customers who have not heard of Co-Pilot may expect a budget solution, but they would be a long way from the facts with such an assumption.
There is nothing budget minded about the iPhone version of Co-Pilot and indeed it offers an experience which equals, if not betters, versions on other platforms.
...
The number of features included in Co-Pilot is impressive and it would take us too long to list them all here. With Live Services, a variety of modes such as walking, driving and cycling, POIs and many, many more it is hard to see where ALK has cut down the iPhone offering. In fact, it has not been cut down at all and is a fully fledged navigation tool which includes most of what users will need.
The initial pricing takes Co-Pilot to a new level for value and the ball is now in its competitor’s courts as to how to react. Simply superb."
Mostly UK reviews because the US version lagged a bit.
Personally, I'm going to get the CoPilot since $35 is a low risk purchase. Heck, it's cheaper than a lot of map updates.
I'll decide later if I'm going to get the TomTom package or an updated standalone and hope for a sale or something because frankly there are still a number of annoyances vs a dedicated GPS. It's not a $180 value to me vs a dedicated GPS + iPhone and CoPilot.
The problem is that it really isn't "one device". It's my phone plus the mount to be really useful (iPhone speaker a little too wimpy IMHO). That's still TWO devices. When you can dock your iPhone directly into your car as a nav system...THEN it's one device.
Not a GPS expert by any means, but from reading through the thread it seems clear that the big differentiator is quality and timeliness of the maps.
No matter how feature rich CoPilot may be, if it doesn't have up to date maps (as has been asserted) then it isn't as good as GPS software that does. It seems to me that quality of maps should be the very first thing evaluated in any review, since nothing else can make up for falling down here.
Moreover, without knowing how often maps are updated, or at what cost, it's really hard to evaluate relative worth. As has been mentioned, the price of GPS software is surely somewhat contingent on what developer is willing to spend to keep things up-to-date and accurate, which I would imagine to be a not insignificant cost.
As I say, I don't know much about it, but in the excerpts you quoted there doesn't seem to be any mention of maps at all.
What I do wonder about the maps is whether any of these companies, other that AT&T, which I have to think is doing it automatically, is giving a "free" map update for any set period after the program is bought, or whether the maps are the same for a year, anf you have to buy new ones then, or even sooner.
That could be why AT&T's $9.95 monthly fee may not be much more expensive over time.
If CoPilot's maps are already out of date, then it's easy to see why their program is so cheap - they're not paying for updated maps right now, which are expensive to license. How much will they charge when new(er) ones do come out, and will they also be older, or new?
From what I've been reading, Tom Tom's maps are the latest. But what will they charge?
And what happens as routes are added and deleted from our road system? Will the once a year, or even 6 months, maps be good enough for those areas?
I remember when my wife and I used to go down to Florida every year to visit my parents and go to Disney World, the maps were always out of date. Badly too. Often, where the map showed the next turn, it was actually one or more turns later because of all the new roads.
How does a GPS system that doesn't have continually updated maps deal with this in these areas of the country?
My take; I'll wait for more comprehensive review and hopefully a full comparison before making a decision.
If TomTom's car kit can run without a data connection, it would certainly reduce need for roaming while out of the country.
Again, neither of those reviews have anything to say about the quality of the maps or how often or at what cost updates would be offered.
Does anyone know if there are, say, a couple of big electronic mapping/atlas operations that sell licenses to GPS companies? Do any of the GPS folks do that in-house? If we knew that everyone was licensing their maps from the same few companies, at least roughly what the unit cost to OEMs was, and how often updates are issued, we could get a bead on what the real value proposition here was. Or it would be helpful to know if one or more GPS companies did their own maps, how reliable, etc.
Not a GPS expert by any means, but from reading through the thread it seems clear that the big differentiator is quality and timeliness of the maps.
No matter how feature rich CoPilot may be, if it doesn't have up to date maps (as has been asserted) then it isn't as good as GPS software that does. It seems to me that quality of maps should be the very first thing evaluated in any review, since nothing else can make up for falling down here.
Moreover, without knowing how often maps are updated, or at what cost, it's really hard to evaluate relative worth. As has been mentioned, the price of GPS software is surely somewhat contingent on what developer is willing to spend to keep things up-to-date and accurate, which I would imagine to be a not insignificant cost.
As I say, I don't know much about it, but in the excerpts you quoted there doesn't seem to be any mention of maps at all.
TeleAtlas is a wholly owned subsidiary of...TomTom.
Navteq is a wholly owned subsidiary of Nokia.
CoPilot used to use Travroute maps which were really out of date for some areas.
CoPilot used Navteq maps in CoPilot 7:
"CoPilot Live 7 incorporates the latest street maps of US and millions of Points of Interest from NAVTEQ, a world leader in premium-quality digital map data. NAVTEQ maps are used by the majority of in-dash systems, and have a reputation of being the most accurate available.
Hundreds of NAVTEQ field researchers literally drive the roads of the US to collect and verify data for the road network. The POI information endures an equally rigorous analysis and validation."
I am claiming that TomTom is overpriced at $99. I'm dithering over Navigon or CoPilot at the moment. Unless the TomTom goes on sale before 8/31 I'm inclined to skip it and do the CoPilot + standalone GPS or Navigon + FM iPhone base.
TeleAtlas is a wholly owned subsidiary of...TomTom.
Navteq is a wholly owned subsidiary of Nokia.
CoPilot used to use Travroute maps which were really out of date for some areas.
CoPilot used Navteq maps in CoPilot 7:
"CoPilot Live 7 incorporates the latest street maps of US and millions of Points of Interest from NAVTEQ, a world leader in premium-quality digital map data. NAVTEQ maps are used by the majority of in-dash systems, and have a reputation of being the most accurate available.
Hundreds of NAVTEQ field researchers literally drive the roads of the US to collect and verify data for the road network. The POI information endures an equally rigorous analysis and validation."
I am claiming that TomTom is overpriced at $99. I'm dithering over Navigon or CoPilot at the moment. Unless the TomTom goes on sale before 8/31 I'm inclined to skip it and do the CoPilot + standalone GPS or Navigon + FM iPhone base.
Good info, thanks.
So the other piece is how often maps are updated, and for how much. If the most recent Navteq maps are generally considered accurate, and CoPilot licenses the most recent maps, and provides timely updates for a competitive fee, then I can't see why you'd want to pay more.
If, on the other hand, TomTom has more recent maps, or updates them more frequently, or charges less per update, then I can see why they can get away with charging a premium for their software, upfront.
Comments
Until we can determine if the GPS on the iphone requires internet connection, would those using a GPS app post their Data Usage using the app over a given period, e.g., half hour, hour, etc.?
Suggest including the name of the app. Not sure if there is any difference if the iPhone is on 3G or Edge.
Thank you.
The iPhone uses assisted GPS, yes it does require a wireless data connection.
But does the iPhone need to use assisted GPS? Or can it work directly off of the satellites without the internet?
I don't think you're grasping my point entirely. It's merely a habit, thus hard to break. Unfortunately, there isn't a patch for it and in my line of work as a technician I MUST answer each phone call on my Sprint (Symbol PDA) device for work, otherwise we get into a lot of trouble. We don't live in a perfect world.
Heck NO! Not everyone should be on the phone or texting. Some have a hard enough time driving properly as it is. Not everyone is created equal. Some are natural athletes; I happen to have better than average vision and a great multi tasking ability. I know that sounds like complete BS and I don't expect you to believe that, but thats how I feel. You can't expect everybody to on the same level when it comes to doing things while they're driving.
Well, I wish you, and everyone around you, a lot of good fortune.
I took a driving course in high school some 20 years ago. Our driving instructor asked us statistically what percentage of drivers have an auto accident. 50% - 75% we guessed.
100% answered our instructor. Whether it's your fault or not it is inevitable.
Good for him, but I'm sure you know people yourself, just as I do that are well into their 80's who haven't had an accident.
The iPhone uses assisted GPS, yes it does require a wireless data connection.
If so, how much data is the iPhone drawing when using one of the new GPS apps, e.g., TomTom, MobileNavigator, CoPilot Live, Sygic Mobile Maps, or AT&T Navigator?
Obviously, AT&T Navigator will draw more, but it would still be interesting to see how much.
It would also be of interesr to measure the data usage using the iPhone Maps' app. The only problem is that it would have to be repeatedly poked to keep it activated for an extended period of time to get a relatively accurate reading.
The iPhone uses assisted GPS, yes it does require a wireless data connection.
Uses != requires.
It may require, but it is poor logic to say it requires it because it can use it. What are the specs of A-GPS? Are you sure that the specs state that a A-GPS unit will be completely non-functional without a live data connection? Would seem to be a poor spec if a function that is meant to enhance its performance is required for it to perform at all.
Good for him, but I'm sure you know people yourself, just as I do that are well into their 80's who haven't had an accident.
If so, how much data is the iPhone drawing when using one of the new GPS apps, e.g., TomTom, MobileNavigator, CoPilot Live, Sygic Mobile Maps, or AT&T Navigator?
Uses != requires.
It may require, but it is poor logic to say it requires it because it can use it. What are the specs of A-GPS? Are you sure that the specs state that a A-GPS unit will be completely non-functional without a live data connection? Would seem to be a poor spec if a function that is meant to enhance its performance is required for it to perform at all.
You can easily look up how a-gps works, there is lots of information about it.
You are right, if the iPhone uses only A-GSP, then it will require data, as the A-GPS spec does not function at all without data. But, the iPhone has both standard GPS and A-GPS.
Any tests done with GPS by enabling Airplane mode are not valid and will fail, as Apple's docs state that GPS reception will be disabled. A better test would be to disable wifi, pull your SIM and test it out. The maps app will not show any graphics, unless you have your current location cached from your last launch of the app. I just tried it and it pin pointed me, though it took longer, as expected without the data assist.
Are you saying you've never been in an auto accident?
That's correct.
Anyways we're going off on tangents here and I'm sure people would like to get back on topic.
Good for him, but I'm sure you know people yourself, just as I do that are well into their 80's who haven't had an accident.
Sure, maybe one in a hundred. The 100% is usually given. It's certainly close enough.
Given that TomTom was probably one of the more anticipated GPS apps the $99 price point is a dissapointment given most folks probably were also intrested in the mount.
navigon is $69 on sale until 8/31 (unknown how map updates will work)
iGo My Way is $80 (free map updates until 2010)
CoPilot is $35
For the folks bad mouthing CoPilot here's a review:
"So is it worth the £26? Definitely. Co-Pilot is so far the best sat-nav app we've seen for the iPhone. If you've not already got a navigation app or a standalone device it's an absolute snip (though the in-built GPS chip is not the finest for walking or cycling). But, of course, the real question is whether the TomTom app is worth twice the cost. We'll bring you the skinny on that as soon as we can."
http://www.techradar.com/news/portab...6826?artc_pg=2
"The marker has been laid down for TomTom and for the life of me I cannot see how it can compete. IQ Routes is an advantage, but how does it attack an opponent who makes a solution so complete at a price point which is unfathomable.
Co-Pilot Live 8 is ‘spectacularly’ good and it still would be if it cost £60 for the UK version. At £25.99 for the UK version and £59.99 for Europe it is hard to comprehend the value buried in this application. It is the very best satellite navigation solution available on the iPhone at this time, and I suspect it will be in 6 months time as well."
http://www.pda-247.com/wordpress/200...iphone-review/
"ALK has jumped into the iPhone navigation sector with a bang, and priced its Co-Pilot Live 8 solution very aggressively. You could be mistaken for thinking that £25.99 for the UK version is a printing error, but it is indeed completely real and this will put some serious pressure on the competition.
The danger is that customers who have not heard of Co-Pilot may expect a budget solution, but they would be a long way from the facts with such an assumption.
There is nothing budget minded about the iPhone version of Co-Pilot and indeed it offers an experience which equals, if not betters, versions on other platforms.
...
The number of features included in Co-Pilot is impressive and it would take us too long to list them all here. With Live Services, a variety of modes such as walking, driving and cycling, POIs and many, many more it is hard to see where ALK has cut down the iPhone offering. In fact, it has not been cut down at all and is a fully fledged navigation tool which includes most of what users will need.
The initial pricing takes Co-Pilot to a new level for value and the ball is now in its competitor’s courts as to how to react. Simply superb."
http://www.gpsdaily.co.uk/reviews/re...ve-for-iphone/
Mostly UK reviews because the US version lagged a bit.
Personally, I'm going to get the CoPilot since $35 is a low risk purchase. Heck, it's cheaper than a lot of map updates.
I'll decide later if I'm going to get the TomTom package or an updated standalone and hope for a sale or something because frankly there are still a number of annoyances vs a dedicated GPS. It's not a $180 value to me vs a dedicated GPS + iPhone and CoPilot.
The problem is that it really isn't "one device". It's my phone plus the mount to be really useful (iPhone speaker a little too wimpy IMHO). That's still TWO devices. When you can dock your iPhone directly into your car as a nav system...THEN it's one device.
Not a GPS expert by any means, but from reading through the thread it seems clear that the big differentiator is quality and timeliness of the maps.
No matter how feature rich CoPilot may be, if it doesn't have up to date maps (as has been asserted) then it isn't as good as GPS software that does. It seems to me that quality of maps should be the very first thing evaluated in any review, since nothing else can make up for falling down here.
Moreover, without knowing how often maps are updated, or at what cost, it's really hard to evaluate relative worth. As has been mentioned, the price of GPS software is surely somewhat contingent on what developer is willing to spend to keep things up-to-date and accurate, which I would imagine to be a not insignificant cost.
As I say, I don't know much about it, but in the excerpts you quoted there doesn't seem to be any mention of maps at all.
That could be why AT&T's $9.95 monthly fee may not be much more expensive over time.
If CoPilot's maps are already out of date, then it's easy to see why their program is so cheap - they're not paying for updated maps right now, which are expensive to license. How much will they charge when new(er) ones do come out, and will they also be older, or new?
From what I've been reading, Tom Tom's maps are the latest. But what will they charge?
And what happens as routes are added and deleted from our road system? Will the once a year, or even 6 months, maps be good enough for those areas?
I remember when my wife and I used to go down to Florida every year to visit my parents and go to Disney World, the maps were always out of date. Badly too. Often, where the map showed the next turn, it was actually one or more turns later because of all the new roads.
How does a GPS system that doesn't have continually updated maps deal with this in these areas of the country?
And an update on Navigon http://www.techradar.com/news/portab...sat-nav-623238
My take; I'll wait for more comprehensive review and hopefully a full comparison before making a decision.
If TomTom's car kit can run without a data connection, it would certainly reduce need for roaming while out of the country.
Here is a recent review of Co-Pilot. http://www.techradar.com/news/portab...-review-626826
And an update on Navigon http://www.techradar.com/news/portab...sat-nav-623238
My take; I'll wait for more comprehensive review and hopefully a full comparison before making a decision.
If TomTom's car kit can run without a data connection, it would certainly reduce need for roaming while out of the country.
Again, neither of those reviews have anything to say about the quality of the maps or how often or at what cost updates would be offered.
Does anyone know if there are, say, a couple of big electronic mapping/atlas operations that sell licenses to GPS companies? Do any of the GPS folks do that in-house? If we knew that everyone was licensing their maps from the same few companies, at least roughly what the unit cost to OEMs was, and how often updates are issued, we could get a bead on what the real value proposition here was. Or it would be helpful to know if one or more GPS companies did their own maps, how reliable, etc.
Not a GPS expert by any means, but from reading through the thread it seems clear that the big differentiator is quality and timeliness of the maps.
No matter how feature rich CoPilot may be, if it doesn't have up to date maps (as has been asserted) then it isn't as good as GPS software that does. It seems to me that quality of maps should be the very first thing evaluated in any review, since nothing else can make up for falling down here.
Moreover, without knowing how often maps are updated, or at what cost, it's really hard to evaluate relative worth. As has been mentioned, the price of GPS software is surely somewhat contingent on what developer is willing to spend to keep things up-to-date and accurate, which I would imagine to be a not insignificant cost.
As I say, I don't know much about it, but in the excerpts you quoted there doesn't seem to be any mention of maps at all.
CoPilot uses Navteq and TeleAtlas.
http://investor.navteq.com/media/Cas...ited_Fleet.pdf
http://www.teleatlas.com/WhyTeleAtla...es/TA_CT031098
TeleAtlas is a wholly owned subsidiary of...TomTom.
Navteq is a wholly owned subsidiary of Nokia.
CoPilot used to use Travroute maps which were really out of date for some areas.
CoPilot used Navteq maps in CoPilot 7:
"CoPilot Live 7 incorporates the latest street maps of US and millions of Points of Interest from NAVTEQ, a world leader in premium-quality digital map data. NAVTEQ maps are used by the majority of in-dash systems, and have a reputation of being the most accurate available.
Hundreds of NAVTEQ field researchers literally drive the roads of the US to collect and verify data for the road network. The POI information endures an equally rigorous analysis and validation."
http://www.handnav.co.uk/product_details.php?id=223
Am I claiming that CoPilot is great? Nope.
I am claiming that TomTom is overpriced at $99. I'm dithering over Navigon or CoPilot at the moment. Unless the TomTom goes on sale before 8/31 I'm inclined to skip it and do the CoPilot + standalone GPS or Navigon + FM iPhone base.
CoPilot uses Navteq and TeleAtlas.
http://investor.navteq.com/media/Cas...ited_Fleet.pdf
http://www.teleatlas.com/WhyTeleAtla...es/TA_CT031098
TeleAtlas is a wholly owned subsidiary of...TomTom.
Navteq is a wholly owned subsidiary of Nokia.
CoPilot used to use Travroute maps which were really out of date for some areas.
CoPilot used Navteq maps in CoPilot 7:
"CoPilot Live 7 incorporates the latest street maps of US and millions of Points of Interest from NAVTEQ, a world leader in premium-quality digital map data. NAVTEQ maps are used by the majority of in-dash systems, and have a reputation of being the most accurate available.
Hundreds of NAVTEQ field researchers literally drive the roads of the US to collect and verify data for the road network. The POI information endures an equally rigorous analysis and validation."
http://www.handnav.co.uk/product_details.php?id=223
Am I claiming that CoPilot is great? Nope.
I am claiming that TomTom is overpriced at $99. I'm dithering over Navigon or CoPilot at the moment. Unless the TomTom goes on sale before 8/31 I'm inclined to skip it and do the CoPilot + standalone GPS or Navigon + FM iPhone base.
Good info, thanks.
So the other piece is how often maps are updated, and for how much. If the most recent Navteq maps are generally considered accurate, and CoPilot licenses the most recent maps, and provides timely updates for a competitive fee, then I can't see why you'd want to pay more.
If, on the other hand, TomTom has more recent maps, or updates them more frequently, or charges less per update, then I can see why they can get away with charging a premium for their software, upfront.