Speak for yourself, and some others here. But don't speak for me.
I never begged for a headless iMac or an xMac, I argued against both in fact. I never begged for an Apple DVR. In fact the reason I said they won't do a DVR is when they add an iTunes subscription service to Apple TV you will no longer need to have to record shows.
I never begged for a tablet either. I just said it's inevitable. Just like I said the iPhone was inevitable, and an Apple Television are. I won't go into again why I think the tablet is coming, but I'm convinced it is. I also believe it will be "Mac", and not simply a larger iPod touch. I have been forceful in making this point, and Apple heavily market it as such. This tablet will be a "computer". Touch comes to Mac, introducing Mac touch.
Enough with the lumping all rumors into one basket please guys, each rumor should be treated individually.
Thank you for this response. Some people simply cannot understand the difference between "we" and "me."
With a laptop there is a point where you don't want to go smaller and that point is around 13 inches.
With a handheld device, and a tablet is a handheld device, there is a point where you don't what to go larger and that point is not 10 inches. I would argue that it's more like roughly half that size. The reason is that once you go that large, the advantages of using a handheld device have pretty much disappeared so it begs the question, what's the point?
In other words, if you need a screen that size, use a laptop. If not, fine, there is a place for something like a Touch but with a bigger screen, just not one better suited to a laptop than a hand-held.
A 10-inch tablet would simply be a lousy laptop alternative. A pointless product Apple isn't working on, in my opinion. Of course, there could be interface innovations in the mix that could alter this scenario but no one has offered up any hints that such innovations are in the works.
you just said 13" is as small as you should go for a laptop. How do you know smaller doesn't work? Because you have seen what happens when it goes smaller.
In this case, you haven't seen the reverse, what happens when an iPod touch goes larger and has 3G or faster networking built in. I think it'll make an awesome laptop alternative. It'll be a heck of a lot lighter and easier to use than the pervasive netbooks on the market.
And from your other post, why do you keep suggesting a $900 price. It'll be in the $400 to $500 ballpark plus a data plan. And the biggest issue Apple will have is they won't be able to make them fast enough.
It takes a fanatic like Jobs to make things happen. Just imagine if a blowhard like Ballmer was running the show.
Jobs has a track record. Let him do it his way and it will revolutionize the market. We can already see Dell and other losers trying to market one a year from now.
Apple learned its lessons from the Newton and the Cube. The Newton was a great product but 1. Was not fully developed and 2. Was released far ahead of its time. Now, when Apple enters a market, it is to re-design and invigorate it with new life. I didn't even want an mp3 player until Apple entered the market. Everything else was junk. Apple has turned the smartphone market from and elitist business user e-mail phone into something everyone wants. The smatr phone markethas seen an insurgence with regular consumera that could not have been fathomed without Apple. You can bet your brass penny that Apple knows what it is doing with the tablet and that every other tablet and umpc etc that has come before will be forgotten. And now I leave you with one of the truest quotes from the Great Steve Jobs.
"...people don't know what they want until you show it to them."
Yes I will buy an iTablet, no I will not get rid of my Newton, I use it to this very day for taking notes in meetings and I have actually had people think this was new technology, PC weenies of course.
Speak for yourself, and some others here. But don't speak for me.
I never begged for a headless iMac or an xMac, I argued against both in fact. I never begged for an Apple DVR. In fact the reason I said they won't do a DVR is when they add an iTunes subscription service to Apple TV you will no longer need to have to record shows.
I never begged for a tablet either. I just said it's inevitable. Just like I said the iPhone was inevitable, and an Apple Television are. I won't go into again why I think the tablet is coming, but I'm convinced it is. I also believe it will be "Mac", and not simply a larger iPod touch. I have been forceful in making this point, and Apple heavily market it as such. This tablet will be a "computer". Touch comes to Mac, introducing Mac touch.
Enough with the lumping all rumors into one basket please guys, each rumor should be treated individually.
One would be a fool to say that a tablet will never happen. I am not a fool.
I am _highly_ skeptical of a tablet at this time. If I know Apple - and I think I do - we will not be seeing a "Mac" tablet before a number of things transpire. One is a lean, efficient OS, capable of running on a lightweight (both of power and mass) portable device. Snow Leopard is definitely running in this direction, and will no-doubt provide a solid basis for a tablet's development. One of the other pieces is further integration of touch commands and gestures into the Mac OS. We're starting to see these as well with Apple's portables. Neither is developed well enough - from what I can tell - to make a tablet an obvious next step, like the AppleTV or the iPod Touch were.
The pieces are falling into place, yes... but I would honestly be very surprised to see a tablet within the next two years.
Not sure why we're talking about the Newton here exactly, but the problem with this product was that it was half-baked in its first two releases. The handwriting recognition was too iffy to be of any use. It was literally comically bad (remember the Doonsbury strips making fun of the Newton? -- that was a painful). Apple finally got it right with the third model, but too late to salvage its reputation, which Steve didn't have any interest in doing anyway.
I was talking about the Newton to illustrate that Apple has come a long way since then and their half baked product releases are no longer. When Apple finally decides to release the tablet, many of us will be left wondering how we ever lived without it.
Apple should take the lessons they have learned from the iPhone, Macbook Air and plastic Macbook and make a netbook for $500 that isn't a pile of junk.
One would be a fool to say that a tablet will never happen. I am not a fool.
I am _highly_ skeptical of a tablet at this time. If I know Apple - and I think I do - we will not be seeing a "Mac" tablet before a number of things transpire. One is a lean, efficient OS, capable of running on a lightweight (both of power and mass) portable device. Snow Leopard is definitely running in this direction, and will no-doubt provide a solid basis for a tablet's development. One of the other pieces is further integration of touch commands and gestures into the Mac OS. We're starting to see these as well with Apple's portables. Neither is developed well enough - from what I can tell - to make a tablet an obvious next step, like the AppleTV or the iPod Touch were.
The pieces are falling into place, yes... but I would honestly be very surprised to see a tablet within the next two years.
-Clive
You are skeptical because the OS hasn't been "developed" well enough yet? How many people saw the iPhone OS before the iPhone was announced? Apples public offerings are not all that has been developed, so I would be wary of using the OS as a reason why a tablet wont be here within two years.
"Movies stored in the form of relatively small files? Kiss that good bye" - because nobody would want a larger, HD screen when they are watching a movie.
Higher res = more space for the movie. His point is accurate on that score.
Quote:
portability? It's certainly as portable as a netbook, which sell like crazy despite their awful keyboards, tiny trackpads, etc Why are things that small even using the same UI as a desktop computer? Certainly there is a better way.
The difference is pocketability. For a large touch you'd want it to be PSP sized...not netbook sized.
If you're netbook sized then a keyboard is useful and the 10" keyboards aren't that bad.
A 10" touch would be around the size of a steno notepad (or largish eBook) which is portable but it is something you have to carry around.
Quote:
price? I guess you missed the part where unlike the iPod touch, this is supposed to be subsidized by verizon?
Then it's DOA. I'm not going to pay Verizon $30 a month to have an apple tablet on top of my iPhone bill.
Quote:
Low price, light, portable, HD quality, long battery life, large amount of memory, GPS, built in 3G or better networking, safari, email, games, movies, etc, etc. This thing will sell like crazy.
Low price? No. I'd say $600+ minimum.
Portable? Sure, but not pocketable.
HD Quality? 720p at best. There is no need (and likely aren't any) for 10" 1920x180 panels. I'll be happy if it's better than 1024x600. 1366x768 would be great.
Long battery life? Maybe if it is ARM based.
Built in 3G? Maybe, but I wouldn't want it. I'm on AT&T and Xohm/Clearwire. This should be at most a BTO option.
With a laptop there is a point where you don't want to go smaller and that point is around 13 inches.
With a handheld device, and a tablet is a handheld device, there is a point where you don't what to go larger and that point is not 10 inches. I would argue that it's more like roughly half that size. The reason is that once you go that large, the advantages of using a handheld device have pretty much disappeared so it begs the question, what's the point?
In other words, if you need a screen that size, use a laptop. If not, fine, there is a place for something like a Touch but with a bigger screen, just not one better suited to a laptop than a hand-held.
A 10-inch tablet would simply be a lousy laptop alternative. A pointless product Apple isn't working on, in my opinion. Of course, there could be interface innovations in the mix that could alter this scenario but no one has offered up any hints that such innovations are in the works.
Is a book a handheld thing? Apparently not if it needs to be less than 5 inches on the diagonal! If you need a small 'connected' device, get an iPhone but if you want a 'universal' reader device with beautifully scaleable print to cater for different eyesight that can also act as a multifunctional device like the iPhone and yet maybe have a user-facing camera for video conferencing etc; now there really is excellent potential in that.
The tablet can definitely survive with only having a multi-touch keyboard simply because we already have an incredibly slim bluetooth keyboard that you can pull out for more intensive typing.
I just hope the damn thing is rugged. People are careful with laptops and usually position them on a surface, and the iphone is small enough to hold firmly. But such a tablet would be difficult to operate unless it was braced on some surface. Chances are it will have an accelerometer, so i can only hope it doesn't develop a wii remote syndrome.
steve, please, please do not make a tablet like the others. We need something like napkins, engineer can draw the design on it, a small enough that can be pull out any time to record our flash of genius. Not those cold flat large booklets you can't even draw a line straight, less to do shade, lighting effect. We need the canvas of da Vinci with his tool set. We need the 3d projection of Michelangelo. ;-). We do not ask much, just the standard of Apple.
You are skeptical because the OS hasn't been "developed" well enough yet? How many people saw the iPhone OS before the iPhone was announced? Apples public offerings are not all that has been developed, so I would be wary of using the OS as a reason why a tablet wont be here within two years.
If an Apple tablet is going to be a "Mac" (which I think many agree it should be) then it absolutely must be the same OS as is used on all other Macs. That said, it's a very different situation from the secretly-developed iPhone OS.
Besides, my point in mentioning it wasn't in regards to developing a tablet-focused OS, per se (though that is certainly a part of it). Since such an OS will most likely be actual Mac OS X, my point was about the efficiency of an OS capable of duplicating the Mac OS experience on a device that has the portability and battery life that one would expect of a tablet. Snow Leopard may be that OS, but it remains to be seen at this point. Seeing the benchmarks of a Snow Leopard-equipped netbook Hackintosh would be an amazing indicator of whether or not the new OS would be well-suited for tablet hardware.
I'll remain skeptical until an apple tablet is actually released. Tablet rumors have been non-stop for like 15 years now.
This particular tablet rumor will be proven true or false. Which of course will be followed by rabid chest pounding, as if it took a genius to make a prediction one way or another.
At this point, my money is still on the side of skeptics. But of course it wouldn't be surprising if a tablet did materialize. It has to at some point. When it does, I predict that it will have to be on the price level of the iPhone in order to succeed. Since the tablet form factor is non-optimal for the vast majority of tasks, it will be an auxiliary computing device and price will be critical. People can do without auxiliary devices at this point in time. They're luxury items.
If an Apple tablet is going to be a "Mac" (which I think many agree it should be) then it absolutely must be the same OS as is used on all other Macs. That said, it's a very different situation from the secretly-developed iPhone OS.
Besides, my point in mentioning it wasn't in regards to developing a tablet-focused OS, per se (though that is certainly a part of it). Since such an OS will most likely be actual Mac OS X, my point was about the efficiency of an OS capable of duplicating the Mac OS experience on a device that has the portability and battery life that one would expect of a tablet. Snow Leopard may be that OS, but it remains to be seen at this point. Seeing the benchmarks of a Snow Leopard-equipped netbook Hackintosh would be an amazing indicator of whether or not the new OS would be well-suited for tablet hardware.
-Clive
I see that's where we differ in opinion. I would expect the OS to be derived from iPhone OS for a multitude of reasons. First and foremost, Apple can't ensure that third party developers will develop touch friendly interfaces on their programs if they are written for a desktop OS. With iPhone OS touch friendly will be a given. Apple is huge on the user experience and I don't think a desktop operating system will provide a satisfactory user experience as long as the primary means of input is a mouse a keyboard.
I was talking about the Newton to illustrate that Apple has come a long way since then and their half baked product releases are no longer. When Apple finally decides to release the tablet, many of us will be left wondering how we ever lived without it.
Agreed. I'm seeing some posts here from people who can't seem to decide whether Apple should have released this product years ago, or it whether won't come for years more, if at all. I suspect it's following more or less the same gestation period of the iPhone -- a few years of credible rumors, followed by a product that takes a form that nobody really predicted.
Agreed. I'm seeing some posts here from people who can't seem to decide whether Apple should have released this product years ago, or it whether won't come for years more, if at all. I suspect it's following more or less the same gestation period of the iPhone -- a few years of credible rumors, followed by a product that takes a form that nobody really predicted.
Haven't all forms been predicted? For at least a few decades even!
A touch screen pocket computer wasn't innovative at all in regard to form. Neither would be a tablet of any particular size. Heck, even the iPhone's interface wasn't that innovative either.
The astounding part was the level of success that Apple had in selling a combination of these known technologies. Apple revolutionized the pocket computer/mobile phone industry... but did so with rather non-revolutionary technologies.
In my mind, the question is whether apple could do the same with a tablet. IMHO, not yet. People were already rabidly buying phones and smart phones. The market was clearly already in existence and primed for growth. Tablets, despite being around for many many years, are barely being sold at all. The form factor, unlike pocket computers / phones, simply isn't as optimal for most tasks.
Comments
Speak for yourself, and some others here. But don't speak for me.
I never begged for a headless iMac or an xMac, I argued against both in fact. I never begged for an Apple DVR. In fact the reason I said they won't do a DVR is when they add an iTunes subscription service to Apple TV you will no longer need to have to record shows.
I never begged for a tablet either. I just said it's inevitable. Just like I said the iPhone was inevitable, and an Apple Television are. I won't go into again why I think the tablet is coming, but I'm convinced it is. I also believe it will be "Mac", and not simply a larger iPod touch. I have been forceful in making this point, and Apple heavily market it as such. This tablet will be a "computer". Touch comes to Mac, introducing Mac touch.
Enough with the lumping all rumors into one basket please guys, each rumor should be treated individually.
Thank you for this response. Some people simply cannot understand the difference between "we" and "me."
With a laptop there is a point where you don't want to go smaller and that point is around 13 inches.
With a handheld device, and a tablet is a handheld device, there is a point where you don't what to go larger and that point is not 10 inches. I would argue that it's more like roughly half that size. The reason is that once you go that large, the advantages of using a handheld device have pretty much disappeared so it begs the question, what's the point?
In other words, if you need a screen that size, use a laptop. If not, fine, there is a place for something like a Touch but with a bigger screen, just not one better suited to a laptop than a hand-held.
A 10-inch tablet would simply be a lousy laptop alternative. A pointless product Apple isn't working on, in my opinion. Of course, there could be interface innovations in the mix that could alter this scenario but no one has offered up any hints that such innovations are in the works.
you just said 13" is as small as you should go for a laptop. How do you know smaller doesn't work? Because you have seen what happens when it goes smaller.
In this case, you haven't seen the reverse, what happens when an iPod touch goes larger and has 3G or faster networking built in. I think it'll make an awesome laptop alternative. It'll be a heck of a lot lighter and easier to use than the pervasive netbooks on the market.
And from your other post, why do you keep suggesting a $900 price. It'll be in the $400 to $500 ballpark plus a data plan. And the biggest issue Apple will have is they won't be able to make them fast enough.
Jobs has a track record. Let him do it his way and it will revolutionize the market. We can already see Dell and other losers trying to market one a year from now.
"...people don't know what they want until you show it to them."
BusinessWeek, May 25 1998
Speak for yourself, and some others here. But don't speak for me.
I never begged for a headless iMac or an xMac, I argued against both in fact. I never begged for an Apple DVR. In fact the reason I said they won't do a DVR is when they add an iTunes subscription service to Apple TV you will no longer need to have to record shows.
I never begged for a tablet either. I just said it's inevitable. Just like I said the iPhone was inevitable, and an Apple Television are. I won't go into again why I think the tablet is coming, but I'm convinced it is. I also believe it will be "Mac", and not simply a larger iPod touch. I have been forceful in making this point, and Apple heavily market it as such. This tablet will be a "computer". Touch comes to Mac, introducing Mac touch.
Enough with the lumping all rumors into one basket please guys, each rumor should be treated individually.
One would be a fool to say that a tablet will never happen. I am not a fool.
I am _highly_ skeptical of a tablet at this time. If I know Apple - and I think I do - we will not be seeing a "Mac" tablet before a number of things transpire. One is a lean, efficient OS, capable of running on a lightweight (both of power and mass) portable device. Snow Leopard is definitely running in this direction, and will no-doubt provide a solid basis for a tablet's development. One of the other pieces is further integration of touch commands and gestures into the Mac OS. We're starting to see these as well with Apple's portables. Neither is developed well enough - from what I can tell - to make a tablet an obvious next step, like the AppleTV or the iPod Touch were.
The pieces are falling into place, yes... but I would honestly be very surprised to see a tablet within the next two years.
-Clive
One would be a fool to say that a tablet will never happen. I am not a fool.
I am _highly_ skeptical of a tablet at this time. If I know Apple - and I think I do - we will not be seeing a "Mac" tablet before a number of things transpire. One is a lean, efficient OS, capable of running on a lightweight (both of power and mass) portable device. Snow Leopard is definitely running in this direction, and will no-doubt provide a solid basis for a tablet's development. One of the other pieces is further integration of touch commands and gestures into the Mac OS. We're starting to see these as well with Apple's portables. Neither is developed well enough - from what I can tell - to make a tablet an obvious next step, like the AppleTV or the iPod Touch were.
The pieces are falling into place, yes... but I would honestly be very surprised to see a tablet within the next two years.
-Clive
You are skeptical because the OS hasn't been "developed" well enough yet? How many people saw the iPhone OS before the iPhone was announced? Apples public offerings are not all that has been developed, so I would be wary of using the OS as a reason why a tablet wont be here within two years.
some of your criticism are a bit odd.
"Movies stored in the form of relatively small files? Kiss that good bye" - because nobody would want a larger, HD screen when they are watching a movie.
Higher res = more space for the movie. His point is accurate on that score.
portability? It's certainly as portable as a netbook, which sell like crazy despite their awful keyboards, tiny trackpads, etc Why are things that small even using the same UI as a desktop computer? Certainly there is a better way.
The difference is pocketability. For a large touch you'd want it to be PSP sized...not netbook sized.
If you're netbook sized then a keyboard is useful and the 10" keyboards aren't that bad.
A 10" touch would be around the size of a steno notepad (or largish eBook) which is portable but it is something you have to carry around.
price? I guess you missed the part where unlike the iPod touch, this is supposed to be subsidized by verizon?
Then it's DOA. I'm not going to pay Verizon $30 a month to have an apple tablet on top of my iPhone bill.
Low price, light, portable, HD quality, long battery life, large amount of memory, GPS, built in 3G or better networking, safari, email, games, movies, etc, etc. This thing will sell like crazy.
Low price? No. I'd say $600+ minimum.
Portable? Sure, but not pocketable.
HD Quality? 720p at best. There is no need (and likely aren't any) for 10" 1920x180 panels. I'll be happy if it's better than 1024x600. 1366x768 would be great.
Long battery life? Maybe if it is ARM based.
Built in 3G? Maybe, but I wouldn't want it. I'm on AT&T and Xohm/Clearwire. This should be at most a BTO option.
With a laptop there is a point where you don't want to go smaller and that point is around 13 inches.
With a handheld device, and a tablet is a handheld device, there is a point where you don't what to go larger and that point is not 10 inches. I would argue that it's more like roughly half that size. The reason is that once you go that large, the advantages of using a handheld device have pretty much disappeared so it begs the question, what's the point?
In other words, if you need a screen that size, use a laptop. If not, fine, there is a place for something like a Touch but with a bigger screen, just not one better suited to a laptop than a hand-held.
A 10-inch tablet would simply be a lousy laptop alternative. A pointless product Apple isn't working on, in my opinion. Of course, there could be interface innovations in the mix that could alter this scenario but no one has offered up any hints that such innovations are in the works.
Is a book a handheld thing? Apparently not if it needs to be less than 5 inches on the diagonal! If you need a small 'connected' device, get an iPhone but if you want a 'universal' reader device with beautifully scaleable print to cater for different eyesight that can also act as a multifunctional device like the iPhone and yet maybe have a user-facing camera for video conferencing etc; now there really is excellent potential in that.
I just hope the damn thing is rugged. People are careful with laptops and usually position them on a surface, and the iphone is small enough to hold firmly. But such a tablet would be difficult to operate unless it was braced on some surface. Chances are it will have an accelerometer, so i can only hope it doesn't develop a wii remote syndrome.
You are skeptical because the OS hasn't been "developed" well enough yet? How many people saw the iPhone OS before the iPhone was announced? Apples public offerings are not all that has been developed, so I would be wary of using the OS as a reason why a tablet wont be here within two years.
If an Apple tablet is going to be a "Mac" (which I think many agree it should be) then it absolutely must be the same OS as is used on all other Macs. That said, it's a very different situation from the secretly-developed iPhone OS.
Besides, my point in mentioning it wasn't in regards to developing a tablet-focused OS, per se (though that is certainly a part of it). Since such an OS will most likely be actual Mac OS X, my point was about the efficiency of an OS capable of duplicating the Mac OS experience on a device that has the portability and battery life that one would expect of a tablet. Snow Leopard may be that OS, but it remains to be seen at this point. Seeing the benchmarks of a Snow Leopard-equipped netbook Hackintosh would be an amazing indicator of whether or not the new OS would be well-suited for tablet hardware.
-Clive
This particular tablet rumor will be proven true or false. Which of course will be followed by rabid chest pounding, as if it took a genius to make a prediction one way or another.
At this point, my money is still on the side of skeptics. But of course it wouldn't be surprising if a tablet did materialize. It has to at some point. When it does, I predict that it will have to be on the price level of the iPhone in order to succeed. Since the tablet form factor is non-optimal for the vast majority of tasks, it will be an auxiliary computing device and price will be critical. People can do without auxiliary devices at this point in time. They're luxury items.
If an Apple tablet is going to be a "Mac" (which I think many agree it should be) then it absolutely must be the same OS as is used on all other Macs. That said, it's a very different situation from the secretly-developed iPhone OS.
Besides, my point in mentioning it wasn't in regards to developing a tablet-focused OS, per se (though that is certainly a part of it). Since such an OS will most likely be actual Mac OS X, my point was about the efficiency of an OS capable of duplicating the Mac OS experience on a device that has the portability and battery life that one would expect of a tablet. Snow Leopard may be that OS, but it remains to be seen at this point. Seeing the benchmarks of a Snow Leopard-equipped netbook Hackintosh would be an amazing indicator of whether or not the new OS would be well-suited for tablet hardware.
-Clive
I see that's where we differ in opinion. I would expect the OS to be derived from iPhone OS for a multitude of reasons. First and foremost, Apple can't ensure that third party developers will develop touch friendly interfaces on their programs if they are written for a desktop OS. With iPhone OS touch friendly will be a given. Apple is huge on the user experience and I don't think a desktop operating system will provide a satisfactory user experience as long as the primary means of input is a mouse a keyboard.
I was talking about the Newton to illustrate that Apple has come a long way since then and their half baked product releases are no longer. When Apple finally decides to release the tablet, many of us will be left wondering how we ever lived without it.
Agreed. I'm seeing some posts here from people who can't seem to decide whether Apple should have released this product years ago, or it whether won't come for years more, if at all. I suspect it's following more or less the same gestation period of the iPhone -- a few years of credible rumors, followed by a product that takes a form that nobody really predicted.
Agreed. I'm seeing some posts here from people who can't seem to decide whether Apple should have released this product years ago, or it whether won't come for years more, if at all. I suspect it's following more or less the same gestation period of the iPhone -- a few years of credible rumors, followed by a product that takes a form that nobody really predicted.
Haven't all forms been predicted? For at least a few decades even!
A touch screen pocket computer wasn't innovative at all in regard to form. Neither would be a tablet of any particular size. Heck, even the iPhone's interface wasn't that innovative either.
The astounding part was the level of success that Apple had in selling a combination of these known technologies. Apple revolutionized the pocket computer/mobile phone industry... but did so with rather non-revolutionary technologies.
In my mind, the question is whether apple could do the same with a tablet. IMHO, not yet. People were already rabidly buying phones and smart phones. The market was clearly already in existence and primed for growth. Tablets, despite being around for many many years, are barely being sold at all. The form factor, unlike pocket computers / phones, simply isn't as optimal for most tasks.