Believe whatever tinfoil corporate conspiracy you want, I don't work for Microsoft. Someone posted the link to this discussion on a bunch of Zune forums, which attracted a few of us over here.
But gosh! You seem to be such a fervent believer in the subscription model that it sounds like you have a personal interest in seeing it succeed. You said you've talked people into trying out the service. Do you have a financial interest in this?
Be honest: if the iPod touch revision had included an OLED screen, you'd be hyping that like it's the best thing ever. Same with Tegra and hi-def video out.
I'd buy a touch just to get the App Store, but who cares what people buy? Trashing an unreleased product while preaching to the choir is bad form, methinks.
Seeing that many people here were disappointed when the iPod Touch didn't get OLED, kinda ironic that the technology is now getting bashed.
Anyhow, I agree with the "Trash before the Release" comment. I want to see one in real life before I make any comments negative or positive. Its not like the iPod Touch is that amazing these days anyway... I rarely use mine any more.
And more so... Isn't this site about APPLE products? Not M$ bashing? No, I guess not.
I've not seen the Zune HD either, but other small displays I've seen looked good, but not up to the quality of an LCD.
Not one of Apple's displays has ever been truly bad, other than for quality of manufacturing issues, which is something else. Not all have been truly great either. But that's not the issue, is it? This is a different issue. It's whether an entirely new type of display is ready for prime time.
Is an OLED display good enough for a music player or phone, but not good enough for a video player? See what I'm saying? If it washes out in bright light, but not sunlight, then that's a problem. Maybe the Zune Hd's display is better than the other small OLEDs I've seen, but maybe not.
The problem with OLED displays is that they've been hyped so much that it's difficult for the average person to know what's true, and what isn't.
For some time, I've been reading that they will be so bright that they will be easily seen outdoors. Well, everyone in the business that I've spoken to thinks that's a crock. Maybe, eventually, they will get to the point of being decent outdoors, but that will take years of efficiency gains. It won't happen next year. OLEDS are MUCH dimmer than LEDs.
The problem with your posting is you are personally respsonible for acting Apple Cheer Leader for OLED on the iPhone, iPod Touch and most recently the Tablet with countless postings under your name. I can call them up.
Dont' play double standards when you're being called on past BS when you've been the poster child for OLED on mobile, PMP's & Apple's still unreleased Tablet, iNetBook, iNotOLED 10" thing that it can't yet define.
No, you can't assume that. I'm talking about people posting that they were leaving the service, and WHY, and the reason was never "I've had an epiphany and realize that owning is better than renting", it's because "I can't sync the music to my MP3 player" or "The software is slow and crappy", and so on. Almost everyone announcing they were leaving the service was because of implementation issues.
Don't forget these other services didn't have the luxury of supporting their own narrow set of MP3 players like Apple does (which is one reason for their astounding success: a VERY smart move on Apple's part.) They were struggling to be compatible with literally dozens and dozens of players, and they had immense difficulty as a result.
MS borrowed a page from Apple's book, and has limited to supporting their own family of players. But by the time they came along the Apple juggernaut was in full swing, and they've had a hard time getting mindshare, and i think THAT is primarily a failure of marketing.
I'd love to see the exact stats, but I think you'd find Zune users are far more faithful than the users of Napster, Yahoo Music Engine, and Rhapsody (before they got their major implementation issues under control). Everyone I know who've purchased Zunes are still using them and happy with them. Yes I've seen posts occasionally on forums of disgruntled users, but once again the complaint is not "subscription service isn't worth it after all", it's that they're complaining about technical issues that prevent them successfully using it.
That was a good post.
I agree with most of your points. but still, subscription services sprung up before Apple was nearly as big as it is now.
And don't forget that whenever music software or hardware is reviewed, Apple always gets the highest ratings. That shows that it isn't only that they were there first, or ties the music to the players. It also shows that the quality is very high. In fact, now that they don't tie the music to the players, people have the opportunity to leave either in favor of something else, but they don't seem to be doing that.
Apple had just said, and I have no reason to doubt them, that 50% of buyers of Nanos are new to the platform. That shows that a lock isn't real.
Really? If Apple told you tomorrow that, for $15 a month, you could get 10 MP3 downloads and for another $5 a month you could listen to 90% of the rest of the iTunes library any time you want, would you turn that down?!?!
If I don't buy ten songs, do the remainder roll over to the next month? Since I don't believe that is the case, I hate this pressure to buy something when there's nothing worth buying. So yes, I'd turn it down.
There was a lot of good info inthis article from which the wrong conclusion have been drawen.
First; with respect to OLED, this technology is under rapid development you should not assume that the screen will be to dim. This is very much something that you need to check out on a shipping product. Likewise the power used by the panels vary widely. Further the iPhone screen washes out in sunlight just like any other LCD. The LCD in the iPhone does not benefit from front illumination one bit.
As to the GPU we have yet to see the product so again do we really know what is in there. It really isn't worthwhile to even comment on it if you don't have verified info. Just because PortaPlayers GPUs of a few years ago where slow does not imply anything about this one. I mean really NVidia has a lot of IP to throw at the core to enhance performance.
As to all the cores mentioned I really don't know what they are talking about as I don't follow Zune. They could be talking about GPU cores which ought to cause Apple to stand up and take notice. Or maybe dedicated I/O processors to handle audio. This is all guess work here but the point is until you know what they are talking about you can't discount them.
Another thing is the obsession here with battery life. How many people here stay up for 30 hours straight to listen to their mp3 player? Not many I would imagine. A more valid question would be how hard is that battery to service.
It isn't like I expect this next Zune to be successful, MS will likely do it in with poor software and over priced software in it's app store. All I'm asking for is a little ethics here. The question Appleinsider needs to ask is do they want to be taken seriously. If so this sort of reporting needs to be flushed down the crapper.
In any event a lot of this comes down to software from third parties. If developers end up thinking this Zune is already a failure it will suffer from a lack of software. That is a slow death. Further the MS supplied software had better work well that includes the browser. Since MS has never gotten Internet Explorer to work right I tend to think the platform is doomed.
The problem with your posting is you are personally respsonible for acting Apple Cheer Leader for OLED on the iPhone, iPod Touch and most recently the Tablet with countless postings under your name. I can call them up.
Dont' play double standards when you're being called on past BS when you've been the poster child for OLED on mobile, PMP's & Apple's still unreleased Tablet, iNetBook, iNotOLED 10" thing that it can't yet define.
Actually, there's a slight (but common) logical error there. I apologise that I can't recall the exact term for it, as it's been far too many years since I took that semester of Logic. It runs something like this, however:
Person A makes statement 1 that is proved to be wrong.
Person A makes statement 2, unrelated to the previous statement.
Person B says "Statement 2 is wrong because Person A was wrong about statement 1".
The error is, of course, that Person A may not be wrong about statement 2. Certainly, their track record isn't good, but in terms of pure logic there's no basis for the instant dismissal of statement 2.
The problem is that so far, MS has not really shown much of anything here. We have to take it on faith right now.
When you bring in the $150million argument, you have to know the history behind it. A great part of that investment was because Apple found that MS had their Quicktime code in WMP. This was part of the settlement. Otherwise, Apple was going to sue MS, and MS would have had to strip that code out. As that code was the only thing allowing video to be played properly in Windows, they didn't want that, so that gave more than a few things to Apple in exchange. Other concessions were the promise to continue writing Office for the Mac, patent exchanges, etc.
Apple had a lot of money in the bank at that time, and it's not clear how much that investment really mattered, other than for publicity, and the embarrassment of Bill Gates when he had to appear in Macworld by video explaining why they made the investment.
Melgross, thank you for your response. We shall see.
PS: If it was embarrassing for Bill to show his face to the faithful, I imagine it was equally embarrassing for Steve to publicly embrace the booed bedfellow. Steve just better at spinning it (this is not a slight; it is a compliment). Actually, he is a master. Props to him.
Really? If Apple told you tomorrow that, for $15 a month, you could get 10 MP3 downloads and for another $5 a month you could listen to 90% of the rest of the iTunes library any time you want, would you turn that down?!?!
I wouldn't. Nor would I turn down a movie subscription from Apple like Netflix's. Some people like to buy and some like to rent. Everyone has an opinion.
Actually, there's a slight (but common) logical error there. I apologise that I can't recall the exact term for it, as it's been far too many years since I took that semester of Logic.
This is the one advantage an OLED has over LCDs. That's for sure. But how important is that for a phone or player as opposed to a Tv set watched by people around the room?
If I were to rate a player on a 100 point basis, I would give it between 5 and 10 points for that.
Quote:
Photos of the ZuneHD under light here:
I watched that one and one other. It's hard to say how good the images were, but they didn't look terrible either. We really need to see it ourselves.
[quote]
So bright and shinny display at Best Buy (look the huge metal hallide lamps on the background):
That was uncalled for. Your comments can be considered to be a Zune fanbot, so watch your mouth.
Actually, most web pages are light in overall density, like here, with its mostly light grey. Go and look at all your PC sites and you'll see that they are mostly white.
Quote:
Apple didnt go for OLED because they dont want to pay Samsung / LG to cut a 3.5inch 320*480 display when nobody uses that resolution/screen size for OLED making this process expensive to Cupertino and damage their profits. in short, Apple dont want to pony up the money from their pockets.
Your MSbot tendencies are coming out again. You have no knowledge of anything regarding this, so don't make a fool of yourself by spouting nonsense. If you want to speculate about something real do so, but this is just silly.
Quote:
Windows Mobile and WinCE (zune OS run atop it) have been running under ARM CPU well before Apple came with that stupid mp3 named iPod.
You started this post with some good points, but now you're just being childish.
Quote:
From an owner of Radeon graphics cards, I still remember back in 2000-2002 when Nvidia GPU's were trashing the PowerVR GPUs. Mainly the Kyro graphics cards...hahaha.
And this is relevant because...?
Quote:
Anyway....read this old article about the Tegra APX 2500
You do see that that article says exactly what Prince said about the chip?
Quote:
uh? The Nvidia demo (done back in 2008) is running at:
- WVGA (800x480). higher than iphone. or you gonna lie to us and tell crap that the iphone resolution is better than that ?
- AA and AF. Where is that on the iphone, ifanbot ?
Like how all the ifanbots related websites promoted and overhyped the mythical camera on the iPod Touch, right ?
If you use fanbot or anything like it again in any other post of yours that I see, I'll delete the post. Get it? Once in a post is enough, several times is just plain stupid.
Actually, there's a slight (but common) logical error there. I apologise that I can't recall the exact term for it, as it's been far too many years since I took that semester of Logic. It runs something like this, however:
Person A makes statement 1 that is proved to be wrong.
Person A makes statement 2, unrelated to the previous statement.
Person B says "Statement 2 is wrong because Person A was wrong about statement 1".
The error is, of course, that Person A may not be wrong about statement 2. Certainly, their track record isn't good, but in terms of pure logic there's no basis for the instant dismissal of statement 2.
Then there is person X "I kiss Apple's Ass" and let a Moderator stand on his or her own words both past and present. I don't think 1 month is that old to still support a "Feature".
In other words. I wasn't referring to you or talking to you and don't require or want a response from you.
I'm asking an AI Moderator to justify past "personal postings" to justify the BS that is being spewed in this article when a month ago he was all for OLED.
One interesting thing I looked at: The Sony Walkman X is a touch screen OLED player, and the user reviews on Amazon (albeit not many) were very complimentary on the screen quality. 1 of the 15 said it was "ok", and all the rest who commented on it seemed to really like it.
Bottom line is that I'll get to see tomorrow! Keeping my fingers crossed....
On a side note, it's bedtime for me, so thanks very much Mel for a fun distraction to pass some of the night while we discussed subscription services! I hope you get great enjoyment out of whatever music devices and/or sites/services you use in the future!
What I'd like to know is, why is AI taking such a hard stance against the Zune HD before it is even released? AI hasn't even touched a Zune HD yet, and they've already declared it dead.
Wait for the reviews tomorrow from Engadget, Gizmodo, CNET, and all the other tech blogs, see the device in person at Best Buy or wherever the hell else they sell it at, and look at the display yourself.
Pieces like this have absolutely no merit IMHO. For me personally, I don't care to purchase a Zune HD -- I already have a 32GB iPhone 3G S. But I will take a look at it tomorrow in Best Buy to see what all the fuss is about before I start burning the thing at the stake.
If you use fanbot or anything like it again in any other post of yours that I see, I'll delete the post. Get it? Once in a post is enough, several times is just plain stupid.
So now Fan Bot is not allowed when you personally use FanBoy in many forum postings?
Don't make this a room of Double Standards because he/she has some great points.
Well I call sour grapes. The Zune HD is going to do good business this Christmas whether the Apple fanboys like it or not.
And the C grade performance by Apple at the September event isn't going to dissuade potential ZuneHD buyers. With an ipod touch that was supposed to have a camera.....but didn't....and a iPod nano that does digital video (great) but incredibly NOT still shots, will all end up helping initial Zune HD sales.
The Apple products will end up winning the shopping season of course but there are a lot of annoyed Apple ipod fans out there right now. And a few are annoyed enough to give the Zune HD a shot.
You're right! Microsoft must be paying us to come onto AI and defend its player!
Or can you wrap your head around some people who actually are Zune enthusiasts? Yeah, fit that into your iWorld, will ya..
And you're one to talk about high post counts...
Believe it or not, we don't mind discussions with people interested in other software or hardware.
But at the same time it must be understood that while a frank discussion is desirable here, there are some who do come on to harass people, and never return.
I'm not happy about one poster in particular who seems to have taken that turn in one post. Not acceptable!
If we get apple users and MS users together on a forum about a device that will have two sides to the like/dislike argument, then facts and logic is best, while avoiding more hysterical comments.
Also, I would expect that non Apple users coming here to "defend" their product would make allowances that this IS an Apple site after all, just as you would expect Apple users to make that allowance when coming to a PC based forum to comment on something.
Comments
what a bunch of bs. i dont think its a coincidence that most of these strange microsoft "fans" are recent members with not too many posts.
You're right! Microsoft must be paying us to come onto AI and defend its player!
Or can you wrap your head around some people who actually are Zune enthusiasts? Yeah, fit that into your iWorld, will ya..
And you're one to talk about high post counts...
Believe whatever tinfoil corporate conspiracy you want, I don't work for Microsoft. Someone posted the link to this discussion on a bunch of Zune forums, which attracted a few of us over here.
But gosh! You seem to be such a fervent believer in the subscription model that it sounds like you have a personal interest in seeing it succeed. You said you've talked people into trying out the service. Do you have a financial interest in this?
Be honest: if the iPod touch revision had included an OLED screen, you'd be hyping that like it's the best thing ever. Same with Tegra and hi-def video out.
I'd buy a touch just to get the App Store, but who cares what people buy? Trashing an unreleased product while preaching to the choir is bad form, methinks.
Seeing that many people here were disappointed when the iPod Touch didn't get OLED, kinda ironic that the technology is now getting bashed.
Anyhow, I agree with the "Trash before the Release" comment. I want to see one in real life before I make any comments negative or positive. Its not like the iPod Touch is that amazing these days anyway... I rarely use mine any more.
And more so... Isn't this site about APPLE products? Not M$ bashing? No, I guess not.
They're dropping after 2,000.
I've not seen the Zune HD either, but other small displays I've seen looked good, but not up to the quality of an LCD.
Not one of Apple's displays has ever been truly bad, other than for quality of manufacturing issues, which is something else. Not all have been truly great either. But that's not the issue, is it? This is a different issue. It's whether an entirely new type of display is ready for prime time.
Is an OLED display good enough for a music player or phone, but not good enough for a video player? See what I'm saying? If it washes out in bright light, but not sunlight, then that's a problem. Maybe the Zune Hd's display is better than the other small OLEDs I've seen, but maybe not.
The problem with OLED displays is that they've been hyped so much that it's difficult for the average person to know what's true, and what isn't.
For some time, I've been reading that they will be so bright that they will be easily seen outdoors. Well, everyone in the business that I've spoken to thinks that's a crock. Maybe, eventually, they will get to the point of being decent outdoors, but that will take years of efficiency gains. It won't happen next year. OLEDS are MUCH dimmer than LEDs.
The problem with your posting is you are personally respsonible for acting Apple Cheer Leader for OLED on the iPhone, iPod Touch and most recently the Tablet with countless postings under your name. I can call them up.
Dont' play double standards when you're being called on past BS when you've been the poster child for OLED on mobile, PMP's & Apple's still unreleased Tablet, iNetBook, iNotOLED 10" thing that it can't yet define.
No, you can't assume that. I'm talking about people posting that they were leaving the service, and WHY, and the reason was never "I've had an epiphany and realize that owning is better than renting", it's because "I can't sync the music to my MP3 player" or "The software is slow and crappy", and so on. Almost everyone announcing they were leaving the service was because of implementation issues.
Don't forget these other services didn't have the luxury of supporting their own narrow set of MP3 players like Apple does (which is one reason for their astounding success: a VERY smart move on Apple's part.) They were struggling to be compatible with literally dozens and dozens of players, and they had immense difficulty as a result.
MS borrowed a page from Apple's book, and has limited to supporting their own family of players. But by the time they came along the Apple juggernaut was in full swing, and they've had a hard time getting mindshare, and i think THAT is primarily a failure of marketing.
I'd love to see the exact stats, but I think you'd find Zune users are far more faithful than the users of Napster, Yahoo Music Engine, and Rhapsody (before they got their major implementation issues under control). Everyone I know who've purchased Zunes are still using them and happy with them. Yes I've seen posts occasionally on forums of disgruntled users, but once again the complaint is not "subscription service isn't worth it after all", it's that they're complaining about technical issues that prevent them successfully using it.
That was a good post.
I agree with most of your points. but still, subscription services sprung up before Apple was nearly as big as it is now.
And don't forget that whenever music software or hardware is reviewed, Apple always gets the highest ratings. That shows that it isn't only that they were there first, or ties the music to the players. It also shows that the quality is very high. In fact, now that they don't tie the music to the players, people have the opportunity to leave either in favor of something else, but they don't seem to be doing that.
Apple had just said, and I have no reason to doubt them, that 50% of buyers of Nanos are new to the platform. That shows that a lock isn't real.
Really? If Apple told you tomorrow that, for $15 a month, you could get 10 MP3 downloads and for another $5 a month you could listen to 90% of the rest of the iTunes library any time you want, would you turn that down?!?!
If I don't buy ten songs, do the remainder roll over to the next month? Since I don't believe that is the case, I hate this pressure to buy something when there's nothing worth buying. So yes, I'd turn it down.
First; with respect to OLED, this technology is under rapid development you should not assume that the screen will be to dim. This is very much something that you need to check out on a shipping product. Likewise the power used by the panels vary widely. Further the iPhone screen washes out in sunlight just like any other LCD. The LCD in the iPhone does not benefit from front illumination one bit.
As to the GPU we have yet to see the product so again do we really know what is in there. It really isn't worthwhile to even comment on it if you don't have verified info. Just because PortaPlayers GPUs of a few years ago where slow does not imply anything about this one. I mean really NVidia has a lot of IP to throw at the core to enhance performance.
As to all the cores mentioned I really don't know what they are talking about as I don't follow Zune. They could be talking about GPU cores which ought to cause Apple to stand up and take notice. Or maybe dedicated I/O processors to handle audio. This is all guess work here but the point is until you know what they are talking about you can't discount them.
Another thing is the obsession here with battery life. How many people here stay up for 30 hours straight to listen to their mp3 player? Not many I would imagine. A more valid question would be how hard is that battery to service.
It isn't like I expect this next Zune to be successful, MS will likely do it in with poor software and over priced software in it's app store. All I'm asking for is a little ethics here. The question Appleinsider needs to ask is do they want to be taken seriously. If so this sort of reporting needs to be flushed down the crapper.
In any event a lot of this comes down to software from third parties. If developers end up thinking this Zune is already a failure it will suffer from a lack of software. That is a slow death. Further the MS supplied software had better work well that includes the browser. Since MS has never gotten Internet Explorer to work right I tend to think the platform is doomed.
Dave
The problem with your posting is you are personally respsonible for acting Apple Cheer Leader for OLED on the iPhone, iPod Touch and most recently the Tablet with countless postings under your name. I can call them up.
Dont' play double standards when you're being called on past BS when you've been the poster child for OLED on mobile, PMP's & Apple's still unreleased Tablet, iNetBook, iNotOLED 10" thing that it can't yet define.
Actually, there's a slight (but common) logical error there. I apologise that I can't recall the exact term for it, as it's been far too many years since I took that semester of Logic. It runs something like this, however:
- Person A makes statement 1 that is proved to be wrong.
- Person A makes statement 2, unrelated to the previous statement.
- Person B says "Statement 2 is wrong because Person A was wrong about statement 1".
The error is, of course, that Person A may not be wrong about statement 2. Certainly, their track record isn't good, but in terms of pure logic there's no basis for the instant dismissal of statement 2.The problem is that so far, MS has not really shown much of anything here. We have to take it on faith right now.
When you bring in the $150million argument, you have to know the history behind it. A great part of that investment was because Apple found that MS had their Quicktime code in WMP. This was part of the settlement. Otherwise, Apple was going to sue MS, and MS would have had to strip that code out. As that code was the only thing allowing video to be played properly in Windows, they didn't want that, so that gave more than a few things to Apple in exchange. Other concessions were the promise to continue writing Office for the Mac, patent exchanges, etc.
Apple had a lot of money in the bank at that time, and it's not clear how much that investment really mattered, other than for publicity, and the embarrassment of Bill Gates when he had to appear in Macworld by video explaining why they made the investment.
Melgross, thank you for your response. We shall see.
PS: If it was embarrassing for Bill to show his face to the faithful, I imagine it was equally embarrassing for Steve to publicly embrace the booed bedfellow. Steve just better at spinning it (this is not a slight; it is a compliment). Actually, he is a master. Props to him.
Really? If Apple told you tomorrow that, for $15 a month, you could get 10 MP3 downloads and for another $5 a month you could listen to 90% of the rest of the iTunes library any time you want, would you turn that down?!?!
I wouldn't. Nor would I turn down a movie subscription from Apple like Netflix's. Some people like to buy and some like to rent. Everyone has an opinion.
Actually, there's a slight (but common) logical error there. I apologise that I can't recall the exact term for it, as it's been far too many years since I took that semester of Logic.
Ah, found it: Ad hominem.
A few articles and videos showing the same technologies used by Zune HD against the old display technologies of the current iPod Touch:
http://www.pocketables.net/2009/03/a...amsung-p3.html
Not exactly the most sophisticated review, mostly just personal likes and dislikes.
Video showing viewing angles between OLED tech against old LCD tech:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/designf...7614734510594/
This is the one advantage an OLED has over LCDs. That's for sure. But how important is that for a phone or player as opposed to a Tv set watched by people around the room?
If I were to rate a player on a 100 point basis, I would give it between 5 and 10 points for that.
Photos of the ZuneHD under light here:
I watched that one and one other. It's hard to say how good the images were, but they didn't look terrible either. We really need to see it ourselves.
[quote]
So bright and shinny display at Best Buy (look the huge metal hallide lamps on the background):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9lLl2B0uAE
Same here.
Show us a 100% white webpage, ifanbot.
That was uncalled for. Your comments can be considered to be a Zune fanbot, so watch your mouth.
Actually, most web pages are light in overall density, like here, with its mostly light grey. Go and look at all your PC sites and you'll see that they are mostly white.
Apple didnt go for OLED because they dont want to pay Samsung / LG to cut a 3.5inch 320*480 display when nobody uses that resolution/screen size for OLED making this process expensive to Cupertino and damage their profits. in short, Apple dont want to pony up the money from their pockets.
Your MSbot tendencies are coming out again. You have no knowledge of anything regarding this, so don't make a fool of yourself by spouting nonsense. If you want to speculate about something real do so, but this is just silly.
Windows Mobile and WinCE (zune OS run atop it) have been running under ARM CPU well before Apple came with that stupid mp3 named iPod.
You started this post with some good points, but now you're just being childish.
From an owner of Radeon graphics cards, I still remember back in 2000-2002 when Nvidia GPU's were trashing the PowerVR GPUs. Mainly the Kyro graphics cards...hahaha.
And this is relevant because...?
Anyway....read this old article about the Tegra APX 2500
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/articles/101/1
You do see that that article says exactly what Prince said about the chip?
uh? The Nvidia demo (done back in 2008) is running at:
- WVGA (800x480). higher than iphone. or you gonna lie to us and tell crap that the iphone resolution is better than that ?
- AA and AF. Where is that on the iphone, ifanbot ?
Like how all the ifanbots related websites promoted and overhyped the mythical camera on the iPod Touch, right ?
If you use fanbot or anything like it again in any other post of yours that I see, I'll delete the post. Get it? Once in a post is enough, several times is just plain stupid.
Actually, there's a slight (but common) logical error there. I apologise that I can't recall the exact term for it, as it's been far too many years since I took that semester of Logic. It runs something like this, however:
- Person A makes statement 1 that is proved to be wrong.
- Person A makes statement 2, unrelated to the previous statement.
- Person B says "Statement 2 is wrong because Person A was wrong about statement 1".
The error is, of course, that Person A may not be wrong about statement 2. Certainly, their track record isn't good, but in terms of pure logic there's no basis for the instant dismissal of statement 2.Then there is person X "I kiss Apple's Ass" and let a Moderator stand on his or her own words both past and present. I don't think 1 month is that old to still support a "Feature".
In other words. I wasn't referring to you or talking to you and don't require or want a response from you.
I'm asking an AI Moderator to justify past "personal postings" to justify the BS that is being spewed in this article when a month ago he was all for OLED.
Simple isn't is when you take out Person X.
One interesting thing I looked at: The Sony Walkman X is a touch screen OLED player, and the user reviews on Amazon (albeit not many) were very complimentary on the screen quality. 1 of the 15 said it was "ok", and all the rest who commented on it seemed to really like it.
Bottom line is that I'll get to see tomorrow! Keeping my fingers crossed....
On a side note, it's bedtime for me, so thanks very much Mel for a fun distraction to pass some of the night while we discussed subscription services! I hope you get great enjoyment out of whatever music devices and/or sites/services you use in the future!
Best wishes,
Eddie
You too, and come back.
what a bunch of bs. i dont think its a coincidence that most of these strange microsoft "fans" are recent members with not too many posts.
I thought he gave a good discussion.
Wait for the reviews tomorrow from Engadget, Gizmodo, CNET, and all the other tech blogs, see the device in person at Best Buy or wherever the hell else they sell it at, and look at the display yourself.
Pieces like this have absolutely no merit IMHO. For me personally, I don't care to purchase a Zune HD -- I already have a 32GB iPhone 3G S. But I will take a look at it tomorrow in Best Buy to see what all the fuss is about before I start burning the thing at the stake.
If you use fanbot or anything like it again in any other post of yours that I see, I'll delete the post. Get it? Once in a post is enough, several times is just plain stupid.
So now Fan Bot is not allowed when you personally use FanBoy in many forum postings?
Don't make this a room of Double Standards because he/she has some great points.
And the C grade performance by Apple at the September event isn't going to dissuade potential ZuneHD buyers. With an ipod touch that was supposed to have a camera.....but didn't....and a iPod nano that does digital video (great) but incredibly NOT still shots, will all end up helping initial Zune HD sales.
The Apple products will end up winning the shopping season of course but there are a lot of annoyed Apple ipod fans out there right now. And a few are annoyed enough to give the Zune HD a shot.
You're right! Microsoft must be paying us to come onto AI and defend its player!
Or can you wrap your head around some people who actually are Zune enthusiasts? Yeah, fit that into your iWorld, will ya..
And you're one to talk about high post counts...
Believe it or not, we don't mind discussions with people interested in other software or hardware.
But at the same time it must be understood that while a frank discussion is desirable here, there are some who do come on to harass people, and never return.
I'm not happy about one poster in particular who seems to have taken that turn in one post. Not acceptable!
If we get apple users and MS users together on a forum about a device that will have two sides to the like/dislike argument, then facts and logic is best, while avoiding more hysterical comments.
Also, I would expect that non Apple users coming here to "defend" their product would make allowances that this IS an Apple site after all, just as you would expect Apple users to make that allowance when coming to a PC based forum to comment on something.