If apple provided the same service, I would consider it. I would be willing to pay $1.50 per song for 10 songs if it allowed me to preview entire albums before I purchased them. There have been numerous occasions where I've purchased an album and regretted it later. Zune pass doesn't mean that you can't buy songs at the same time, it could be used to supplement purchasing and prevent bad purchases.
You see, theres a problem. People don't want that, apparently. They vote with their money, and most all have voted "no".
So sure, you and some others like the idea, but so what? Really, in the long term, it's not been working out.
Maybe there will always be one or two companies that continue to offer a subscription service, but most of the rest are on financial life support. Napster has never made a dime. Rhapsody is shrinking rapidly and is now losing money. Real is in trouble. And so are all the rest.
People want to buy songs. That seems to be the model that works best. People want to OWN things, and that goes for music as well.
Now that Apple has killed the DRM model, there is even less interest in subscriptions, 256K AAC has helped.
With the Rhapsody iPhone app, you can have your subscription, and buy songs (from Apple).
That should satisfy most people who want this, and no doubt there will be others.
While I believe that there are some people who just love them, they are still a failure.
The fact is that many companies that offered them are no longer around. Some major companies. Even MS turned off the lights at one of their subscription services.
Rhapsody, which you like, has been losing subscribers for a long time. Real may go out of business, etc.
Why is that? If as you say, people just love it after trying it for a while they should be growing.
It seems that more people become disenchanted after a while with these services than like them.
I expect them to disappear.
I was able to convince people to try them, but it took more than a 30 second commercial or easy sound bite. It took them seeing someone using it, and explaining the advantage to get over that initial reluctance.
Short of having an in-person spokesperson to have that conversation, it is hard to convey that advantage in an ad-based format.
I think subscription services have potential, but it's going to take someone with better marketing savvy to make the message work using standard advertising media and timelength.
I hold some optimism that they could eventually find a sustainable niche because I've seen more people become more open to the idea in the last few years. As more and more people stream movies with Netflix, or experience the fun of (more limited) services like Pandora etc., I think more of them are open to the subscription model.
Because there are still serious shortcomings to Rhapsody's iPhone service that they could easily resolve for their own service to give it a huge advantage. (Allow local storage of subscription songs, better than 64kbps bit rate, presumably a larger selection to choose from too(?)).
Let's face it, if Apple did activate some subscription service tomorrow, everyone would be "Rhapsody WHO?!?!"
It's version one. Like all things software, it needs some updating.
Really? If Apple told you tomorrow that, for $15 a month, you could get 10 MP3 downloads and for another $5 a month you could listen to 90% of the rest of the iTunes library any time you want, would you turn that down?!?!
I was able to convince people to try them, but it took more than a 30 second commercial or easy sound bite. It took them seeing someone using it, and explaining the advantage to get over that initial reluctance.
Short of having an in-person spokesperson to have that conversation, it is hard to convey that advantage in an ad-based format.
I think subscription services have potential, but it's going to take someone with better marketing savvy to make the message work using standard advertising media and timelength.
I hold some optimism that they could eventually find a sustainable niche because I've seen more people become more open to the idea in the last few years. As more and more people stream movies with Netflix, or experience the fun of (more limited) services like Pandora etc., I think more of them are open to the subscription model.
You have to explain why they are failing. It's fine to say how great they are, and for some, no doubt they are. but many more who are on the service are moving off than new people are moving in.
These people who are leaving don't need hype to make them understand the service's advantages (if any to them), because they are already on it.
So why are so many disenchanted with them?
There must be some good reason. If you could point that out, from a users viewpoint, and make them understand, then, maybe, they could fix the problem.
Unless its fundamental one that can't be fixed, though they have tried by giving away a small number of songs each month.
I think the fundamental problem is that many people who try the services find that they are paying just to sample tracks they could hear somewhere else before doing what they really want to do with those tracks, which is to buy them.
Once they realize that, they leave the service. The rest know they can hear the songs somewhere else and so don't even bother to join.
You see, theres a problem. People don't want that, apparently. They vote with their money, and most all have voted "no".
So sure, you and some others like the idea, but so what? Really, in the long term, it's not been working out.
Maybe there will always be one or two companies that continue to offer a subscription service, but most of the rest are on financial life support. Napster has never made a dime. Rhapsody is shrinking rapidly and is now losing money. Real is in trouble. And so are all the rest.
People want to buy songs. That seems to be the model that works best. People want to OWN things, and that goes for music as well.
Now that Apple has killed the DRM model, there is even less interest in subscriptions, 256K AAC has helped.
With the Rhapsody iPhone app, you can have your subscription, and buy songs (from Apple).
That should satisfy most people who want this, and no doubt there will be others.
I would say they don't understand the idea, and it is marketed poorly. Also none of these other options have the clout that the iTunes Store has. The iTunes Store with a $5 a month unlimited previews option could potentially be successful if it were marketed as such. Unfortunately there is no reason for Apple to implement such an idea since they would only be taking business from themselves.
It's interesting that despite that, subscriptions are a failure, while Apple's model has propelled it into the largest music seller in the world. Yes, not just the US, but now the world.
Meanwhile, the Zune has sold less than 2 million units in two years. Sales were actually down 43% in the last quarter, and they're discontinuing all their players for the HD.
So most people say about the listening to millions of songs?big deal!
What's more interesting is how you forget about all the Napster, and Rhapsody users. Number of units sold have nothing to do with the huge amount of subscribers, but hey... go ahead and keep shelling out $ for tacks you couldn't care less about in 5 years... at least I'm being real with myself...
You have to explain why they are failing. It's fine to say how great they are, and for some, no doubt they are. but many more who are on the service are moving off than new people are moving in.
These people who are leaving don't need hype to make them understand the service's advantages (if any to them), because they are already on it.
So why are so many disenchanted with them?
There must be some good reason. If you could point that out, from a users viewpoint, and make them understand, then, maybe, they could fix the problem.
Unless its fundamental one that can't be fixed, thought they have tried by giving away a small number of songs each month.
I think the fundamental problem is that many people who try the services find that they are paying just to sample tracks they could hear somewhere else before doing what they really want to do with those tracks, which is to buy them.
Once they realize that, they leave the service. The rest know they can hear the songs somewhere else and so don't even bother to join.
I think there are other problems that can lead to people leaving, such as:
Poor interface (Yahoo Music Engine...blech)
Poor selection of music (not a large enough library)
Difficulty syncing due to poorly functioning DRM, very slow transfer times etc. (Plagued Yahoo and Rhapsody in the past)
These very serious issues led many people to leave these services for very valid reasons. BUT, they are not flaws in subscription services as a concept, they are just flaws in early attempts at implementation.
I participate in alot of these forums, and the people leaving aren't complaining that subscription services disappointed them in what they offer in theory, rather that they were very frustrated with the crappy UI, malfunctioning DRM, slow response times, etc. etc. If the software had functioned as intended, and worked with the myriad of MP3 players it was supposed to, many of these people would have stayed.
I find it interesting that the article is basically reviewing a product that has not even been released yet. Items such as OLED's lifecycle can certainly be argued, but I think that a hands-on comparison between the ZuneHD and the Touch would be more objective. Perhaps we'll see something in the next few days, when the device is in the hands of consumers and reviewers, alike.
Really? If Apple told you tomorrow that, for $15 a month, you could get 10 MP3 downloads and for another $5 a month you could listen to 90% of the rest of the iTunes library any time you want, would you turn that down?!?!
Yes. A lot of the music I listen to is from CDs I own, a collection built up over a lifetime. Perhaps it's so 20th century, but I still like buying CDs for albums I like. And, occasionally, I like my music (sometimes even a whole album) lossless.
I don't want to be locked into any music 'plan' (rent or buy). That's so 19th century, like those Columbia/Time Warner "5 CDs for a penny" type bait-and-switch.
Really? If Apple told you tomorrow that, for $15 a month, you could get 10 MP3 downloads and for another $5 a month you could listen to 90% of the rest of the iTunes library any time you want, would you turn that down?!?!
I believe that people who like subscription services don't understand why most people don't care for them.
You are so thrilled to have the possibility of listening to any music on the service that you don't understand that most people don't WANT to listen to such a great variety of music.
Most people have a far more limited interest in music, and don't find the ability to choose from millions of tracks to listen to to be an advantage.
For example, people who listen to R&R are not generally interested in rap, or "international" music, or new age, or whatever. Having millions of those tracks available just isn't of interest.
The same thing can be said for those who listen to folk, or jazz, or country, or classical, or the aforementioned rap, new age, or international.
Or for that matter, any other genre, such as show music, movie music etc.
So the assumption that millions of listenable tracks for $15 a month is a draw for most people just isn't so.
Most people are interested in just a fraction of all the music available. Therefore, they don't see the same advantage as you do.
And as I mentioned, many music buyers do listen to FM or other music sources, and so can hear the songs before buying.
Gee, some of us even have friends who listen to music and can hear it there as well. A few of us even go to parties where music is playing, or concerts, or hear it on the Tv, on the music channels, or in concerts on cable.
I feel sorry if the only way some people hear music is on a service.
I'm an Apple fan, and have a 3GS that I really like.
But MS has put a LOT of effort into the Zune HD, and I'm sure there are going to be pros and cons. Real competition in the devices and with the music business models is only a good thing for all of us!
What the article fails to mention is the good points of the Zune HD ...
the article is about specific "myths" not which one has what features.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominiej
Seriously folks, you want to point out myths? How about the iPod Touch being a game console... Seriously? One without any physical controls??? Now there's a myth I can't get over...
I don't think you know what the meaning of the word "myth" is.
The iPod touch is a very successful game console. Some people don't like the lack of physical buttons, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a very successful game console. It just is, (successful) it's a fact not a myth.
A myth is something that people believe to be true but isn't actually true. Get it?
Well, Apple has now allowed Rhapsody's iPhone app into the store.
Why, one may ask?
Because if you like a song, you can tag it, and then, guess what, buy it from iTunes.
So why should Apple have their own subscription service?
Because - I'll bet - if the renting model works, more iTunes consumers would rent from Apple than Rhapsody. (And Apple would rather keep that part of the cash flow too).
I would say they don't understand the idea, and it is marketed poorly. Also none of these other options have the clout that the iTunes Store has. The iTunes Store with a $5 a month unlimited previews option could potentially be successful if it were marketed as such. Unfortunately there is no reason for Apple to implement such an idea since they would only be taking business from themselves.
If something is failing, then it's easy to say it's because of poor marketing rather than the fact that the idea itself is a failure. There has been plenty of marketing from many sources, and all of it has failed. That's pretty amazing, isn't it?
Don't forget that the iTunes store wasn't always so dominant. For much of its life, it was much smaller. And subscription services first came about when iTunes was small, so that's not a factor, though it may seem that way now.
The truth is that while the iTunes store took off, subscription services did not. And you may remember that almost everyone was predicting that they were the wave of the future.
And even Amazon is doing ok with about 8.5% of the music business sales. That came much later. No subscription service is doing nearly as well as Amazon's. So it's not just itunes, though that's the 600 pound gorilla.
Yes. A lot of the music I listen to is from CDs I own, a collection built up over a lifetime. Perhaps it's so 20th century, but I still like buying CDs for albums I like. And, occasionally, I like my music (sometimes even a whole album) lossless.
I don't want to be locked into any music 'plan' (rent or buy). That's so 19th century, like those Columbia/Time Warner "5 CDs for a penny" type bait-and-switch.
What do you mean "locked in"? I'm saying for $5 a month you have unlimited access to millions of songs. You can still buy all the songs you want to your heart's content.
You really wouldn't spend in one month what many people spend on coffee each day to ADD that access to your existing music library?
What's more interesting is how you forget about all the Napster, and Rhapsody users. Number of units sold have nothing to do with the huge amount of subscribers, but hey... go ahead and keep shelling out $ for tacks you couldn't care less about in 5 years... at least I'm being real with myself...
Whoa! I didn't forget about anyone. I mentioned all of those services.
You are forgetting that all of those same services are failing. They are all losing money, and seeing their subscriptions shrink. There is no "huge" number of subscribers. Rhapsody has the most, and they are now down to 750,000.
... Keep your uncontrolable music apps that make you "feel" like your in control...
What? that literally doesn't make any sense. That's the dumbest thing I've seen on this forum in, well at least 3 days... people really do go in circles when they are lost.
Comments
If apple provided the same service, I would consider it. I would be willing to pay $1.50 per song for 10 songs if it allowed me to preview entire albums before I purchased them. There have been numerous occasions where I've purchased an album and regretted it later. Zune pass doesn't mean that you can't buy songs at the same time, it could be used to supplement purchasing and prevent bad purchases.
You see, theres a problem. People don't want that, apparently. They vote with their money, and most all have voted "no".
So sure, you and some others like the idea, but so what? Really, in the long term, it's not been working out.
Maybe there will always be one or two companies that continue to offer a subscription service, but most of the rest are on financial life support. Napster has never made a dime. Rhapsody is shrinking rapidly and is now losing money. Real is in trouble. And so are all the rest.
People want to buy songs. That seems to be the model that works best. People want to OWN things, and that goes for music as well.
Now that Apple has killed the DRM model, there is even less interest in subscriptions, 256K AAC has helped.
With the Rhapsody iPhone app, you can have your subscription, and buy songs (from Apple).
That should satisfy most people who want this, and no doubt there will be others.
While I believe that there are some people who just love them, they are still a failure.
The fact is that many companies that offered them are no longer around. Some major companies. Even MS turned off the lights at one of their subscription services.
Rhapsody, which you like, has been losing subscribers for a long time. Real may go out of business, etc.
Why is that? If as you say, people just love it after trying it for a while they should be growing.
It seems that more people become disenchanted after a while with these services than like them.
I expect them to disappear.
I was able to convince people to try them, but it took more than a 30 second commercial or easy sound bite. It took them seeing someone using it, and explaining the advantage to get over that initial reluctance.
Short of having an in-person spokesperson to have that conversation, it is hard to convey that advantage in an ad-based format.
I think subscription services have potential, but it's going to take someone with better marketing savvy to make the message work using standard advertising media and timelength.
I hold some optimism that they could eventually find a sustainable niche because I've seen more people become more open to the idea in the last few years. As more and more people stream movies with Netflix, or experience the fun of (more limited) services like Pandora etc., I think more of them are open to the subscription model.
Because there are still serious shortcomings to Rhapsody's iPhone service that they could easily resolve for their own service to give it a huge advantage. (Allow local storage of subscription songs, better than 64kbps bit rate, presumably a larger selection to choose from too(?)).
Let's face it, if Apple did activate some subscription service tomorrow, everyone would be "Rhapsody WHO?!?!"
It's version one. Like all things software, it needs some updating.
Let's face it, if Apple did activate some subscription service tomorrow, everyone would be "Rhapsody WHO?!?!"
Maybe.
But it'll probably fail too.
Maybe.
But it'll probably fail too.
Really? If Apple told you tomorrow that, for $15 a month, you could get 10 MP3 downloads and for another $5 a month you could listen to 90% of the rest of the iTunes library any time you want, would you turn that down?!?!
I was able to convince people to try them, but it took more than a 30 second commercial or easy sound bite. It took them seeing someone using it, and explaining the advantage to get over that initial reluctance.
Short of having an in-person spokesperson to have that conversation, it is hard to convey that advantage in an ad-based format.
I think subscription services have potential, but it's going to take someone with better marketing savvy to make the message work using standard advertising media and timelength.
I hold some optimism that they could eventually find a sustainable niche because I've seen more people become more open to the idea in the last few years. As more and more people stream movies with Netflix, or experience the fun of (more limited) services like Pandora etc., I think more of them are open to the subscription model.
You have to explain why they are failing. It's fine to say how great they are, and for some, no doubt they are. but many more who are on the service are moving off than new people are moving in.
These people who are leaving don't need hype to make them understand the service's advantages (if any to them), because they are already on it.
So why are so many disenchanted with them?
There must be some good reason. If you could point that out, from a users viewpoint, and make them understand, then, maybe, they could fix the problem.
Unless its fundamental one that can't be fixed, though they have tried by giving away a small number of songs each month.
I think the fundamental problem is that many people who try the services find that they are paying just to sample tracks they could hear somewhere else before doing what they really want to do with those tracks, which is to buy them.
Once they realize that, they leave the service. The rest know they can hear the songs somewhere else and so don't even bother to join.
You see, theres a problem. People don't want that, apparently. They vote with their money, and most all have voted "no".
So sure, you and some others like the idea, but so what? Really, in the long term, it's not been working out.
Maybe there will always be one or two companies that continue to offer a subscription service, but most of the rest are on financial life support. Napster has never made a dime. Rhapsody is shrinking rapidly and is now losing money. Real is in trouble. And so are all the rest.
People want to buy songs. That seems to be the model that works best. People want to OWN things, and that goes for music as well.
Now that Apple has killed the DRM model, there is even less interest in subscriptions, 256K AAC has helped.
With the Rhapsody iPhone app, you can have your subscription, and buy songs (from Apple).
That should satisfy most people who want this, and no doubt there will be others.
I would say they don't understand the idea, and it is marketed poorly. Also none of these other options have the clout that the iTunes Store has. The iTunes Store with a $5 a month unlimited previews option could potentially be successful if it were marketed as such. Unfortunately there is no reason for Apple to implement such an idea since they would only be taking business from themselves.
It's interesting that despite that, subscriptions are a failure, while Apple's model has propelled it into the largest music seller in the world. Yes, not just the US, but now the world.
Meanwhile, the Zune has sold less than 2 million units in two years. Sales were actually down 43% in the last quarter, and they're discontinuing all their players for the HD.
So most people say about the listening to millions of songs?big deal!
What's more interesting is how you forget about all the Napster, and Rhapsody users. Number of units sold have nothing to do with the huge amount of subscribers, but hey... go ahead and keep shelling out $ for tacks you couldn't care less about in 5 years... at least I'm being real with myself...
You have to explain why they are failing. It's fine to say how great they are, and for some, no doubt they are. but many more who are on the service are moving off than new people are moving in.
These people who are leaving don't need hype to make them understand the service's advantages (if any to them), because they are already on it.
So why are so many disenchanted with them?
There must be some good reason. If you could point that out, from a users viewpoint, and make them understand, then, maybe, they could fix the problem.
Unless its fundamental one that can't be fixed, thought they have tried by giving away a small number of songs each month.
I think the fundamental problem is that many people who try the services find that they are paying just to sample tracks they could hear somewhere else before doing what they really want to do with those tracks, which is to buy them.
Once they realize that, they leave the service. The rest know they can hear the songs somewhere else and so don't even bother to join.
I think there are other problems that can lead to people leaving, such as:
Poor interface (Yahoo Music Engine...blech)
Poor selection of music (not a large enough library)
Difficulty syncing due to poorly functioning DRM, very slow transfer times etc. (Plagued Yahoo and Rhapsody in the past)
These very serious issues led many people to leave these services for very valid reasons. BUT, they are not flaws in subscription services as a concept, they are just flaws in early attempts at implementation.
I participate in alot of these forums, and the people leaving aren't complaining that subscription services disappointed them in what they offer in theory, rather that they were very frustrated with the crappy UI, malfunctioning DRM, slow response times, etc. etc. If the software had functioned as intended, and worked with the myriad of MP3 players it was supposed to, many of these people would have stayed.
Really? If Apple told you tomorrow that, for $15 a month, you could get 10 MP3 downloads and for another $5 a month you could listen to 90% of the rest of the iTunes library any time you want, would you turn that down?!?!
Yes. A lot of the music I listen to is from CDs I own, a collection built up over a lifetime. Perhaps it's so 20th century, but I still like buying CDs for albums I like. And, occasionally, I like my music (sometimes even a whole album) lossless.
I don't want to be locked into any music 'plan' (rent or buy). That's so 19th century, like those Columbia/Time Warner "5 CDs for a penny" type bait-and-switch.
Really? If Apple told you tomorrow that, for $15 a month, you could get 10 MP3 downloads and for another $5 a month you could listen to 90% of the rest of the iTunes library any time you want, would you turn that down?!?!
I believe that people who like subscription services don't understand why most people don't care for them.
You are so thrilled to have the possibility of listening to any music on the service that you don't understand that most people don't WANT to listen to such a great variety of music.
Most people have a far more limited interest in music, and don't find the ability to choose from millions of tracks to listen to to be an advantage.
For example, people who listen to R&R are not generally interested in rap, or "international" music, or new age, or whatever. Having millions of those tracks available just isn't of interest.
The same thing can be said for those who listen to folk, or jazz, or country, or classical, or the aforementioned rap, new age, or international.
Or for that matter, any other genre, such as show music, movie music etc.
So the assumption that millions of listenable tracks for $15 a month is a draw for most people just isn't so.
Most people are interested in just a fraction of all the music available. Therefore, they don't see the same advantage as you do.
And as I mentioned, many music buyers do listen to FM or other music sources, and so can hear the songs before buying.
Gee, some of us even have friends who listen to music and can hear it there as well. A few of us even go to parties where music is playing, or concerts, or hear it on the Tv, on the music channels, or in concerts on cable.
I feel sorry if the only way some people hear music is on a service.
There are many other, more friendly ways.
But MS has put a LOT of effort into the Zune HD, and I'm sure there are going to be pros and cons. Real competition in the devices and with the music business models is only a good thing for all of us!
What the article fails to mention is the good points of the Zune HD ...
the article is about specific "myths" not which one has what features.
Seriously folks, you want to point out myths? How about the iPod Touch being a game console... Seriously? One without any physical controls??? Now there's a myth I can't get over...
I don't think you know what the meaning of the word "myth" is.
The iPod touch is a very successful game console. Some people don't like the lack of physical buttons, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a very successful game console. It just is, (successful) it's a fact not a myth.
A myth is something that people believe to be true but isn't actually true. Get it?
Well, Apple has now allowed Rhapsody's iPhone app into the store.
Why, one may ask?
Because if you like a song, you can tag it, and then, guess what, buy it from iTunes.
So why should Apple have their own subscription service?
Because - I'll bet - if the renting model works, more iTunes consumers would rent from Apple than Rhapsody. (And Apple would rather keep that part of the cash flow too).
I would say they don't understand the idea, and it is marketed poorly. Also none of these other options have the clout that the iTunes Store has. The iTunes Store with a $5 a month unlimited previews option could potentially be successful if it were marketed as such. Unfortunately there is no reason for Apple to implement such an idea since they would only be taking business from themselves.
If something is failing, then it's easy to say it's because of poor marketing rather than the fact that the idea itself is a failure. There has been plenty of marketing from many sources, and all of it has failed. That's pretty amazing, isn't it?
Don't forget that the iTunes store wasn't always so dominant. For much of its life, it was much smaller. And subscription services first came about when iTunes was small, so that's not a factor, though it may seem that way now.
The truth is that while the iTunes store took off, subscription services did not. And you may remember that almost everyone was predicting that they were the wave of the future.
And even Amazon is doing ok with about 8.5% of the music business sales. That came much later. No subscription service is doing nearly as well as Amazon's. So it's not just itunes, though that's the 600 pound gorilla.
Yes. A lot of the music I listen to is from CDs I own, a collection built up over a lifetime. Perhaps it's so 20th century, but I still like buying CDs for albums I like. And, occasionally, I like my music (sometimes even a whole album) lossless.
I don't want to be locked into any music 'plan' (rent or buy). That's so 19th century, like those Columbia/Time Warner "5 CDs for a penny" type bait-and-switch.
What do you mean "locked in"? I'm saying for $5 a month you have unlimited access to millions of songs. You can still buy all the songs you want to your heart's content.
You really wouldn't spend in one month what many people spend on coffee each day to ADD that access to your existing music library?
What's more interesting is how you forget about all the Napster, and Rhapsody users. Number of units sold have nothing to do with the huge amount of subscribers, but hey... go ahead and keep shelling out $ for tacks you couldn't care less about in 5 years... at least I'm being real with myself...
Whoa! I didn't forget about anyone. I mentioned all of those services.
You are forgetting that all of those same services are failing. They are all losing money, and seeing their subscriptions shrink. There is no "huge" number of subscribers. Rhapsody has the most, and they are now down to 750,000.
Face the facts.
... Keep your uncontrolable music apps that make you "feel" like your in control...
What? that literally doesn't make any sense. That's the dumbest thing I've seen on this forum in, well at least 3 days... people really do go in circles when they are lost.