Mossberg: Windows 7 narrows the gap with Apple's Mac OS X

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  • Reply 61 of 465
    zunxzunx Posts: 620member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jon t View Post


    "after months of testing vista on multiple computers, new and old, i believe it is the best version of windows that microsoft has produced."



    that was precisely what walt mossberg wrote in the wsj on jan 18th 2007.



    Let's let the customers decide shall we?



    I predict a riot.



    Of dissatisfaction.



    revealing !!!
  • Reply 62 of 465
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by doyourownthing View Post


    people that compare snow leopard to windows 7 are angry pc users which have never owned / operated a mac and have no idea of what they're talking about, and were paid big amounts of money to write good reviews, like this mossberg character



    and posts like yours show how little you understand.



    Mossberg is probably one of the few fair reviewers out there. Because he is neither 100% proWindows or proMac. He looks at them both objectively and without the glazed over eyes of a fanboy.



    And in point of fact, compared to the tragedy that was Vista, Windows deserves some praise for finally stepping up and producing a decent and truly competitive OS. It is one thing to win but stomping the other team just isn't as much fun as a real fight. Now the game can finally really begin.
  • Reply 63 of 465
    alanskyalansky Posts: 235member
    As Philip Elmer-DeWitt writes in Fortune:



    ?The system for upgrading is complicated, but Vista owners can upgrade to the exactly comparable edition of Windows 7 while keeping all files, settings and programs in place. Unfortunately, XP owners, the biggest body of Windows users, won?t be able to do that.?



    This is obviously the key piece of information that every Windows XP user should know before purchasing Windows 7. Sounds like a potential nightmare to me.
  • Reply 64 of 465
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,815member
    I have run the 7 betas from the beginning. When I can run 7 with no third party anti this and thats and never be told I have no this or that, I'll be a little more impressed. The nagging is still there and for a very good reason of course which was kind of glossed over in this review. It is still far more vulnerable to attacks than Mac OSX.



    I'd also point out all reviews should be taken with a grain of salt unless in a real long term working situation and that includes Apple OSs. In my experience the first few hours, even days and weeks of any recent M$ OS instal always runs quite well ... then over time the issues start and it slows down. Plus the continual battle between messages from Kasperksy (or whatever) and the OS are still there. However, over all no doubt 7 is a great improvement over Vista, but then what wouldn't be, lol
  • Reply 65 of 465
    mrstepmrstep Posts: 518member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iMat View Post


    Microsoft Windows 7 getting better? This is a piece of news that should affect every Mac enthusiast who doesn't wear blindfolds.

    Apple has an edge, in my opinion, in a combination of factors, OSX being only one of them. But it is true that Snow Leopard brought only under the hood changes, which is a good idea in my opinion, but it is also true that if nobody (software) profits from these changes they are as good as useless. iCal and Mail have never been the most resource intensive tasks my MBP performs.. Happy to see they are faster, but ArchiCAD and Aperture in my case are the two that might benefit MUCH more from being 64bit and GCD compatible. So that is something Apple has to fix next.



    There's no doubt that the desktop experience could probably use some sort of updates to smooth usage - SL actually seems to have made drag/drop between spaces worse. Where I used to be able to start a drag, invoke it, drag over the space I wanted, f8 again, focus doesn't seem to follow now and I end up back where I started unless I hit the space bar when over the target window. I do like the dock exposé, though once invoked it would be nice if you could still mouse over apps and get exposé to show what's on the other apps - like the Win7 taskbar, IIRC.



    Win7 still isn't a compelling reason to move from OSX, but it's at least not wretched. On the other hand, it can't fix the rest of the windows apps with nasty user experience - there's just something about using apps there that makes them feel really awful and grates on my nerves, which I think is what Walt Mossberg was alluding to towards the end of the review as well. Something about Windows & its apps puts me on edge - and I've used it a lot in the past at work.



    In terms of the underlying architecture - the GCD stuff is great (I've been converting some of my code from single-threaded onto this with ease, will move the already-threaded parts onto it soon...), but as you say, Mail and iCal while maybe a bit snappier won't really wow users. I did see a HUGE improvement on multithreaded render times on Carrara (renders with large textures would run slower on 4 cores than 2, now it's pretty much linear speedup as you would hope) - I think the updated SL kernel does a much better job of binding threads to cores, at least I assume the problem before was cache thrashing of some sort. Maybe there are visible improvements on other apps that aren't tuned for 64bit / GCD yet as well... But again, not sure how many users will notice that?



    I'm actually wondering what tasks that 'normal' users do will really take noticeable advantage of OpenCL / GCD type improvements anyway - certainly surfing, mail, etc. aren't going to sell it. I have a 3 year old Mac Pro (the 2x2 @ 2.66GHz with 12GB RAM) and I have to say I really don't feel compelled to upgrade yet - it's still a fantastic box, even more so now with SL. (Now, I will upgrade when 6 or 8 core CPUs show up for a 12-16 core box plus hyperthreading - I use this machine day in/out for development and graphics work, and that would definitely at least speed up compiles and renders.)



    Anyway, I think the plumbing on SL is much more of an improvement than what Win7 is over Vista - and that's still full of registry / dll / etc. junk, but Win7 'polished the turd' with more UI tweaks where with SL end users mostly will wonder if there's anything new. Wonder what the 8/16 core + OpenCL future will bring that really uses all of that horsepower...
  • Reply 66 of 465
    hillstoneshillstones Posts: 1,490member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    Don't they make most of their money from corporations anyway so I really don't think this matters.



    Most corporations have no interest in Vista or Windows 7. They still run XP because of either proprietary software for the business, or the majority of their client boxes are crippled Celerons that are incapable of running anything beyond XP. Companies won't risk the cost of running Windows 7 if it is not compatible with their software programs, and won't even consider buying new hardware just to run it.



    Microsoft's high upgrade prices allow them to make money off the home user because they made little or no money off the original purchase of the OS through the hardware purchase. More home users rush out to buy a new OS before any corporation would.
  • Reply 67 of 465
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,729member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacTel View Post


    There are many things that make the Mac OSX a great experience and even Windows 7 doesn't get there. The included apps in Mac OSX are all the difference.



    Yes, I really think Apple is not focussing enough on their apps. They should spend more time & money marketing these, and keep the development going.
  • Reply 68 of 465
    stuffestuffe Posts: 394member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Robodude View Post






    I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will explain, from what I know it seems to be bad use (by developers) of a bad concept. It basically allows them to screw with things that really shouldn't be changed - at least when you delete a program and .plist you're not affecting system files.




    Cheers for that. I would love for someone who genuinely understands what the registry does and how/why to explain why people hate it so much. I suspect that someone who knows his still well enough will probably say "Actually, it's OK in principle, the problem as that people don't use it properly, or find weird uses for which is was not intended" etc. I will happily admit that I don't know enough about it to comment.



    I suspect most people bash it because everyone else bashes it, and it sounds as if you know what your on about when you join in. I'm no lover of windows, I put up with it as work, and my wife/kids all use it because it's familiar at work/school etc, but I can't believe it's all bad.



    How often on a Mac is the solution to weird problems "Delete your .plist, it must be corrupt"? Quite a lot, in my experience, and I can imagine it's possibly only luck that a) they didn;t go the database route, and b) Microsoft did, but perhaps didn;t imlement it with enough bomb proof coatings to stop developers abusing it.
  • Reply 69 of 465
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,815member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jon T View Post


    "After months of testing Vista on multiple computers, new and old, I believe it is the best version of Windows that Microsoft has produced."



    That was precisely what Walt Mossberg wrote in the WSJ on Jan 18th 2007.



    Let's let the customers decide shall we?



    I predict a riot.



    Of dissatisfaction.



    I missed that last time around ... kind of undermines his street cred a wee bit lol . Yes I know Walt is usually on the button
  • Reply 70 of 465
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    Who stole the task bar from Microsoft and named it a DOCK?



    The Dock came from NeXT, and predates the Taskbar by several years.
  • Reply 71 of 465
    zoolookzoolook Posts: 657member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by doyourownthing View Post


    nice to read reviews from people which are probably in microsoft's payroll



    also how is this apple news?



    people that compare snow leopard to windows 7 are angry pc users which have never owned / operated a mac and have no idea of what they're talking about, and were paid big amounts of money to write good reviews, like this mossberg character



    Shut up.
  • Reply 72 of 465
    hillstoneshillstones Posts: 1,490member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by doyourownthing View Post


    nice to read reviews from people which are probably in microsoft's payroll



    also how is this apple news?



    people that compare snow leopard to windows 7 are angry pc users which have never owned / operated a mac and have no idea of what they're talking about, and were paid big amounts of money to write good reviews, like this mossberg character



    You have done well to prove how stupid you are. You have no idea what you are talking about.



    You do realize that Intel Macs run Windows, and some people have Windows installed on their Macs because they use Windows at work with software that will never be written for Mac. Some may install Windows so they can play games, specifically older games that were hybrid discs that will never be updated to run on the Intel version of Mac OS X. So this news may be important to them.
  • Reply 73 of 465
    People will prefer to suffer under XP until their machines break rather than upgrade to Windows 7, unless they are PROSUMERs. Prosumers are being lost to the mac platform.
  • Reply 74 of 465
    crees!crees! Posts: 501member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    But why does flash work so well on Windows? From flash perpective OSX is bloated that's why the CPU is grinded to a halt. No such problem when running Windows from what I hear.



    The problem is the Mac OS version of the Flash Player plug-in. It has never been as optimized as its Windows counterpart. That responsibility lies on Adobe to fix.
  • Reply 75 of 465
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iMat View Post


    Instead of spending time on the tablet, Apple should:



    that comment can only come from someone that believes that there is only one group doing everything.



    there isn't.



    take a tour of Cupe. In this building is iphone/ipod development. that building over there is desktops, next to it laptops. the building on the other side of the quad is software, OS on the first floor, apps on the second.



    and that building on the other side of the cafe is where they work on the 'niche' products, accessories.



    And the building with no windows and the guard dogs. That's the secret lab for not yet released stuff. Once you go in, you can't leave or talk to anyone on the outside until the product has been released. Part of Apple's Cult of Secrecy.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ouragan View Post


    But the biggest threat to Apple comes from its unwillingness to offer desktop computers with a Nehalem quad-core desktop CPU, a Blu-Ray drive and monitor for less than $1,000.



    an opinion but not one shared by many, particularly the general public. who are buying the current offerings aplenty



    Quote:

    Unless Apple offers competitive computers with competitive features at a competitive price,



    which goes against the very core of Apple. they don't do as everyone else does because everyone else does.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by zunx View Post


    But Apple Mac market share must boost to 25% to be a real competitor with Windows.



    You assume they want to be a 'real competitor'
  • Reply 76 of 465
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stuffe View Post


    Cheers for that. I would love for someone who genuinely understands what the registry does and how/why to explain why people hate it so much. I suspect that someone who knows his still well enough will probably say "Actually, it's OK in principle, the problem as that people don't use it properly, or find weird uses for which is was not intended" etc. I will happily admit that I don't know enough about it to comment.



    [...]



    How often on a Mac is the solution to weird problems "Delete your .plist, it must be corrupt"? Quite a lot, in my experience, and I can imagine it's possibly only luck that a) they didn;t go the database route, and b) Microsoft did, but perhaps didn;t imlement it with enough bomb proof coatings to stop developers abusing it.



    The main problem with the Registry is that it's binary and mixes settings of everything together. Thus:
    • Corruption can be difficult or impossible to recover from, you can't simply edit or delete one app's/feature's settings separately from another.

    • Finding the settings for a given app/feature can be very difficult at best because they are all mixed together and organized in unintuitive (to the average user) ways.

    • The nature of the Registry makes it susceptible to malware attack and it can be difficult to identify and correct the problem.

    Those are a few problems of the registry relative to text-based, separate .plist files
  • Reply 77 of 465
    mrstepmrstep Posts: 518member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stuffe View Post


    At the risk of being snowed under with vitriol, can I ask a simple question:



    What's wrong with the registry? Surely it's just a meta collection of .plist files in a single database, rather than scattered to the 4 winds?



    Before you beat the shit out of me, I run nearly every OS known to modern man, and prefer my Mac to most, but will admit under pain of waterboarding to be a Solaris man at heart...



    You're in luck - there will be no beatings today, even though I liked the old SunOS better than Solaris.



    From when I've coded on Windows - it centralizes all kinds of information for apps and the system in 1 place. So if and when it gets screwed up, you tend to have real problems. It also makes it much easier for apps to modify and hide things since nobody can actually figure out what should be there in the first place. They used to recommend all of those text files with setting info instead (before the registry), which actually meant you could find those settings and if they got screwed it only impacted 1 app.



    Just as an amusing story, my brother ran a 'registry cleaner' app to try to remove old settings from an app he had, but of course that cleaner app was malware and infected his machine to the hilt (adware + viruses + maybe rootkit stuff, though he could never tell...). Clean install time. Go Windows - and Windows users! Yes, I've told him he's a dork.
  • Reply 78 of 465
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by michaelab View Post


    In this case it's not a valid win32 application because it's a file which has 0 bytes. You can rename any file you like to have a ".exe" extension and that won't make it a valid Win32 application!



    The problem in this case is that Firefox is still downloading your file. When Firefox is downloading a file and hasn't finished it creates a place-holder file of 0 bytes with the file name that will eventually be the downloaded file and creates a second file called <filename>.part where to store the partially downloaded file, until it's finished, at which point the .part file is copied to the real file name and the .part file is erased.



    Your "problem" here has nothing to do with Windows7 and everything to do with how Firefox works and your failure to understand this.



    Exactly.

    @ls1z28chris: That's why under your .exe it has the same name but it says *.exe.PART. Finish the d/l and the .PART file will disappear.

    EDIT: I assume you are taking CCNA or similar, and ironically, the webpage for Cisco's packet tracer has an image for the trivia game that says "Do you really know how the internet works?"





    I'll be buying Win7, it is good. I need it for my wife's Vista laptop and my MBP. M$ will finally be getting some of my cash, those bastards.

    My $0.02 is that if you don't use it, you lose it. I don't want to be behind in any tech, let alone clueless as to how it operates. Windows included.

    (Which means it's gonna cost me more than two cents I suppose \)
  • Reply 79 of 465
    hillstoneshillstones Posts: 1,490member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by desarc View Post


    MSFT will make a killing on win7 because every corporation in the world that's still on XP will upgrade, and that's a shit-ton of corporations.



    Doubtful. Corporations don't buy a new OS for fancy features, they need much more of a compelling reason. A lot of companies use custom software apps to run their business, and if their program won't run on Win7, they have no reason to upgrade. Also, most of their hardware are cheap PC's that won't run Win7.



    While at work, you don't use any of the features of the OS, you are only running the software programs to do your work. Companies don't risk incompatibilities just because a new OS came out.
  • Reply 80 of 465
    mrstepmrstep Posts: 518member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by soul8o8 View Post


    It's still Windows.

    Still the same philosophies regarding usability and user experience.

    Still the same endless dialogues and incoherent interface.

    But this around, it's GPU-accelerated. Oh the joy!



    http://forums.laptopvideo2go.com/top...ndows-vista-7/



    See? Isn't it MUCH better with semi-transperent windows instead of the old boring gray?

    *yawn*



    Yeah, I think the taskbar management for launching/running apps has improved, but it doesn't fix the rest of the user experience. Other apps still are just awful to use and what's underneath the OS covers haven't really improved either.
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