I think we should improve sex education and the prevention of unwanted pregnancies. If you don't want a baby then think about it before you do anything selfish like having sex with out a condom or other contriception.
I think we should improve sex education and the prevention of unwanted pregnancies. If you don't want a baby then think about it before you do anything selfish like having sex with out a condom or other contraception.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think wether you are Pro-choice or Pro-life everyone will agree with this.
I have been on many sides of what you all talked about.
First, I am pro-abortion and will remain so for the rest of my life.
Do you realize you lifers make such a big deal about 1% of the abortions; I know you would prefer to see a woman dead or mamed for life to bring this kind of child to the world, a child that would not survive.
I made quite a few mistakes in my life, I guess this makes me human; one of them resulted in a baby that I was forced to give up for adoption; during many nights following my parents'choice I cried myself to sleep because I missed my daughter. Also, about adoption, I was adopted and I feel lost, not knowing where I come from.
5 years later I made another mistake and this time I had an abortion which I have never regretted and actually the staff at the hospital never made me feel like scum unlike the first time.
As for adoption which one of you would give one of your children without blinking an eye and never think about it again.
The United States Centres for Disease Control and Prevention reported 1,184,758 legal induced abortions in 1997, a 3 per cent decrease from 1996. These figures translate into an abortion rate of 20 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15-44. The abortion rate rose from 13 to 25 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15-44 between 1972 and 1980, and remained stable during much of the 1980s before declining in the 1990s. The 1997 rate of 20 is the lowest since 1975. In 1997, 20 per cent of women obtaining abortions were aged 19 or under, and 32 per cent were aged 20-24. In terms of gestation, 55 per cent of the 1997 abortions were performed within the first 8 weeks, and by 12 weeks that number had increased to 88 per cent. The Alan Guttmacher Institute reports that 49 per cent of pregnancies among American women are unintended and of that number, half are terminated by abortion. African-American women remain three times as likely as white women to have an abortion, and Hispanic women are roughly twice as likely. An estimated 14,000 abortions are obtained each year for rape or incest.
When presented with the choice, I went with an 'open adoption' (honest, true story). My daughter will be 8 in July.
Making abortions illegal won't stop them. Making beer illegal in the 1920s didn't stop beer from being produced/sold/consumed.
If a woman/girl wants to kill a fetus that is inside her she doesn't need a doctor. A coat hangar will do. It's unsafe to the mother but it will work.
Would you put a woman in prison for getting an abortion? Would you put doctors in prison for performing abortions? Would you prefer they just went in the bathroom and used a coat hangar?
Making something illegal doesn't stop it. I'd wish that abortions were never ever an option, but it's not realistic. The prisons are already crowded enough without putting a bunch of women, who have enough problems already, in them.
Imagine a woman has two kids, her husband gets put in jail, while she's pregnant with a third. She doesn't need and can't handle another kid and decides to get an abortion. The cops find her getting ready to get an 'illegal' abortion, and she's in jail too. Now you've got a dad and pregnant mom in jail. Two kids in foster care, and a third on its way.
Abortions are bad, but making them against the law won't stop them. It would take more than that. A good hard look at the media and typical societal values would be a better start than making pregnant women into potential criminals.
I have been on many sides of what you all talked about.
First, I am pro-abortion and will remain so for the rest of my life.<hr></blockquote>
I like that you call it as it is, Pro Abortion, not Pro Choice.
[quote]Do you realize you lifers make such a big deal about 1% of the abortions; I know you would prefer to see a woman dead or mamed for life to bring this kind of child to the world, a child that would not survive.<hr></blockquote>
And then you pull this stunt. Ok, all pro Lifers on this board that wish to see a woman dead or mamed for life to bring a child that would not survive into the world, raise your hands. My hand is not raised, is yours? You are presenting a false choice here, either the mother survives or the baby does. Abortion or kill the mom. This is so rare that at the point it happens there are few that would argue for a surgery to save the mothers life. What pro life people do not like is the, "It's my body and it is not human so if I want to remove that parasitic mass of cells from my body I will."
[quote]I made quite a few mistakes in my life, I guess this makes me human; one of them resulted in a baby that I was forced to give up for adoption; during many nights following my parents'choice I cried myself to sleep because I missed my daughter. Also, about adoption, I was adopted and I feel lost, not knowing where I come from.<hr></blockquote>
Really, so you wish you would have killed your daughter instead of putting her up for adoption? Or even closer to home, do you wish you were aborted instead of put up of adoption?
[quote]5 years later I made another mistake and this time I had an abortion which I have never regretted and actually the staff at the hospital never made me feel like scum unlike the first time.<hr></blockquote>
So since the staff was supportive of your choice to kill the baby that must be the right thing to do. Any hospital staff that berates or degrades a mother for choosing to put up their child for adoption is not worthy of being in the health profession. They took an oath to do no harm. Let's see them live by it.
[quote]As for adoption which one of you would give one of your children without blinking an eye and never think about it again.
And no I never gotten pregnant after that.<hr></blockquote>
This is not the choice. The choice is, which of you that had an unplanned pregnancy would decide to kill that child vs. put it up for adoption vs. try to raise it as best you can. Most children that are put up for adoption are not there because their parents got tired of raising them. They were put there because the mother could not raise them, or because the parents were dead. There is also the rare instance of being forced to put the child up for adotpion by parents who are trying to preserve their social status.
I applaud you for your honesty overall. I am sorry you lost 2 children. But at least with the first child you have the option to find her again if you really wanted to.
<strong>I'd rather abortions weren't ever needed/wanted.
When presented with the choice, I went with an 'open adoption' (honest, true story). My daughter will be 8 in July.
Making abortions illegal won't stop them. Making beer illegal in the 1920s didn't stop beer from being produced/sold/consumed.
If a woman/girl wants to kill a fetus that is inside her she doesn't need a doctor. A coat hangar will do. It's unsafe to the mother but it will work.
Would you put a woman in prison for getting an abortion? Would you put doctors in prison for performing abortions? Would you prefer they just went in the bathroom and used a coat hangar?
Making something illegal doesn't stop it. I'd wish that abortions were never ever an option, but it's not realistic. The prisons are already crowded enough without putting a bunch of women, who have enough problems already, in them.
Imagine a woman has two kids, her husband gets put in jail, while she's pregnant with a third. She doesn't need and can't handle another kid and decides to get an abortion. The cops find her getting ready to get an 'illegal' abortion, and she's in jail too. Now you've got a dad and pregnant mom in jail. Two kids in foster care, and a third on its way.
Abortions are bad, but making them against the law won't stop them. It would take more than that. A good hard look at the media and typical societal values would be a better start than making pregnant women into potential criminals.
Vote: Pro Choice</strong><hr></blockquote>
This board is just full of strawmen today. False choices left and right. I am happy you went with the open adoption. I am happy that youmade a choice you can live with.
Now on to the rest of your argument. Prohibition and Abortions are Apples and Oranges. Not even the same thing. Show me someone who is addicted to abortions? Show me someone who has abortions 3-5 times a day. Show me where abortions can relax you after a hard days work. Not the same thing.
If abortions were illegal you would likely see a slight increase in illegal abortions and "coat hanger" abortions. But I doubt it would be that large and likely you would see a greater increase of adoptions at first with an increase in "safe sex" and abstinance when people find that there is not an easy, legal, way to get rid of their unwanted child.
Your story about the cops and the desperate mother is just sad. Yet another false choice. Either abort the child or keep it and add to her misery. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> Sad.
[QB]In the case of my daughter it would be impossible. Laws are such in Canada that it is impossible. Even if I could since I live in the real world I do realize that her life now is her own not part of mine.
OK I have to spell it out for the prolifers; I had an abortion not because it was convenient but because I could not bare losing another child; it was for me a problem; also I knew that my mother would never speak to me again. Since it is not a movie of the week when she means never it is never. I could not keep it because I had no job and no income and in later I had to be on welfare.
You only see a little face; not the problems that comes along. For you Noah life is simple; it is not so for others.
Do you really care Noah or your just pretend you do. You obviously will never feel the desperation of needing an abortion.
If you are ever in a predicament where you have to make the choice - check into "open adoptions". I know it is a little late now - and that really is too bad.
I went through an open adoption about eight years ago w/my daughter. With open adoptions you meet several groups of parents and decide which seems like the best to raise your child. Also with open adoptions you can keep up on the well being of the child either through pictures or just hanging out. I see my daughter all the time - well, not so much lately since I moved to NYC, but still quite often. Just last August she told me that "her dad said I was her birthdad". :eek: Wasn't quite ready for that, but it was cool. We shared some smiles while we talked.
You don't have a legal right to see the child, but if you meet nice parents they will usually be cool. Her dad is a Republican representative for the State of Kansas. Nice guy. We disagree on a few things, but he's hardworking, with good morals and he's down to earth.
Of course, it still hurt, and it still sucked and I still wish it could have worked but it didn't. It's a long story. I wouldn't want to do it again.
However, at least we had the choice. Even though the mother of my daughter was a pretty devout Baptist and probably wouldn't have gotten an abortion, I wouldn't have wanted to 'force her' to have the child. And I certainly wouldn't have put her in jail for not having it. It was a rough time - a lot of confusing feelings and emotions.
By the way, she hasn't gone to visit our daughter in years. If I talk to her about how well she is doing she thinks I'm doing it to make her jealous. So I've stopped giving her updates. I rarely see the mother anyways.
It still sucks, but it was our choice. No one elses. And we'll deal with it our own way. It seems awfully naive, to me, to hear people who have never been in the situation act like they have the answers. I've spent 8 years thinking about it and I still don't know if it was right. I just know my kid is happy and that's what matters.
[quote]I just know my kid is happy and that's what matters.<hr></blockquote>
I need a standing ovation smiley!
That kid was conceived in a less-than-optimal situation, anything done now should be done with nothing else than her well-being in mind. I wish everyone had your attitude.
The mother, by thinking that you are using the child as a weapon, is dehumanizing that child. Not that it will factor into the girl's development, but it's a disturbing way of looking at the situation.
-----
Jane:
Bringing personal experience into these things makes them complicated, because decorum disallows many people to voice what they truly feel or want to say.
It's a dicey situation, but I'll go ahead and ask a question that I'm sure many many readers thought after reading your posts:
Why, after painfully giving a child up for adoption, were you not taking preventative measures that would have made your subsequent abortion unnecessary?
(And before you post, "It's not your business, etc...", keep in mind that you brought it up.)
The testimony of Jane and Seb where more than interesting. To my humble advice, when you read such private testimony, you should just listen and not quote them.
That's the way it works with TV and radio emission (in my countrie at least), it think it's the minimum respect required in our forum.
I am Ok to discuss the idea not to judge the other member in the more private aspect of their life.
<strong>OK I have to spell it out for the prolifers; I had an abortion not because it was convenient but because I could not bare losing another child; it was for me a problem; also I knew that my mother would never speak to me again. Since it is not a movie of the week when she means never it is never. I could not keep it because I had no job and no income and in later I had to be on welfare.
You only see a little face; not the problems that comes along. For you Noah life is simple; it is not so for others.
Do you really care Noah or your just pretend you do. You obviously will never feel the desperation of needing an abortion.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Life is not simple. If life were simple i would have no reason to come to this board and post about all the things that we on this board argue about and discuss that are wrong with the world.
So a baby is not a baby. You only see a little face; not the problems that comes along. What am I supposed to see? For me I have 2 sons. The first one had night terrors from 2 months old until about 8 months old. Every night we could almost gurantee that he would wake up screaming in the middle of the night and not calm down for at least 10 mnutes. Then and only then could we pick him up and reassure him as if we touched him any sooner he would really go beserk. My second son had colick for the first 6 months of his life. He was never happy and cried all night long. As soon as he got over that he started cutting teeth and now he cries all the time again. All I see is a little face, none of the problems?
But then you may be speaking of the other aspect you brought up with your mother and her seeming willingness to abandon you because you got pregnant again? I will not address this because i have no insight into your situation with her or how she actually is as a person.
And for the last part about having no job, no income and having to be on welfare, I am sorry to hear that.
I do care about people. I do care about your situation, and I do care what happens to you even though I right now wouldn't know you from anyone else I met on the street. that does not change the fact that I do not agree that abortion is the right answer in that situation. I stand by my assertion that if abortion were not legal many in your situation would not choose a back alley abortion, would not choose a coat hanger in a empty hotel room. They woul not because they know the risks to their life and they want to live. they would likely choose to put the child up for adoption and then learn form the situation to not get in that position again.
An abortion makes that risk negatable. After all, it's not a child, not until you want it to be.
I will never have to deal with an abortion because I am not a woman, and because I am married. We want any children that we make. It makes at least that part easier for me.
you know, i heard a speach the other week about this, and the speaker raised an interesting point.
abortion is also an instance where the people in power are allowed to decide whether or not the rights of the weak are enforced.
if the mother wants the fetus, killing it is murder (illegal). if not, killing it is abortion.(legal).
raises the interesting question as to whether or not the majority in power should have the ability to revoke the basic human rights of those who are weaker.
Please pardon my ignorance on this topic but my thoughts are as follows:
I feel abortion is ok in the cases of rape or incest. Also I think that it is NOT ok to abort when the embryo has taken on clear development of arms and legs, up to this point it is and undefined cell dividing and forming into a human form. I do not wish to be biased on this point but the removal of something that resembles a cell
is not as disturbing to me as the cutting up of a child with developing arms and legs..I have seen these pictures before and it is quite disturbing. So the point I am trying to make is abort when it is only an undefined mass, when development of limbs has begun I do not agree on this point. Let me know if this makes any sense to anyone here please.
I'm REALLY glad to see this thread has stayed thoughtful, considerate, and non-confrontational (in general).
Obviously this is a very personal issue, and I just hope the feeling and consideration in this thread will permeate to future/other controversial subjects.
<strong>Also I think that it is NOT ok to abort when the embryo has taken on clear development of arms and legs, up to this point it is and undefined cell dividing and forming into a human form.</strong><hr></blockquote>That makes sense, but that happens pretty quickly - like quickly as in before you would know that you're pregnant in most cases. There's a basic cardiovascular system at about a month after conception, and at 2 months it "looks" human.
Comments
<strong>Pro choice, not saying it's the right choice but it should be a choice.</strong><hr></blockquote>
agreed.
*shuffles off quietly*
I think we should improve sex education and the prevention of unwanted pregnancies. If you don't want a baby then think about it before you do anything selfish like having sex with out a condom or other contriception.
<strong>
I think we should improve sex education and the prevention of unwanted pregnancies. If you don't want a baby then think about it before you do anything selfish like having sex with out a condom or other contraception.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think wether you are Pro-choice or Pro-life everyone will agree with this.
First, I am pro-abortion and will remain so for the rest of my life.
Do you realize you lifers make such a big deal about 1% of the abortions; I know you would prefer to see a woman dead or mamed for life to bring this kind of child to the world, a child that would not survive.
I made quite a few mistakes in my life, I guess this makes me human; one of them resulted in a baby that I was forced to give up for adoption; during many nights following my parents'choice I cried myself to sleep because I missed my daughter. Also, about adoption, I was adopted and I feel lost, not knowing where I come from.
5 years later I made another mistake and this time I had an abortion which I have never regretted and actually the staff at the hospital never made me feel like scum unlike the first time.
As for adoption which one of you would give one of your children without blinking an eye and never think about it again.
And no I never gotten pregnant after that.
[ 02-28-2002: Message edited by: Jane ]</p>
The United States Centres for Disease Control and Prevention reported 1,184,758 legal induced abortions in 1997, a 3 per cent decrease from 1996. These figures translate into an abortion rate of 20 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15-44. The abortion rate rose from 13 to 25 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15-44 between 1972 and 1980, and remained stable during much of the 1980s before declining in the 1990s. The 1997 rate of 20 is the lowest since 1975. In 1997, 20 per cent of women obtaining abortions were aged 19 or under, and 32 per cent were aged 20-24. In terms of gestation, 55 per cent of the 1997 abortions were performed within the first 8 weeks, and by 12 weeks that number had increased to 88 per cent. The Alan Guttmacher Institute reports that 49 per cent of pregnancies among American women are unintended and of that number, half are terminated by abortion. African-American women remain three times as likely as white women to have an abortion, and Hispanic women are roughly twice as likely. An estimated 14,000 abortions are obtained each year for rape or incest.
When presented with the choice, I went with an 'open adoption' (honest, true story). My daughter will be 8 in July.
Making abortions illegal won't stop them. Making beer illegal in the 1920s didn't stop beer from being produced/sold/consumed.
If a woman/girl wants to kill a fetus that is inside her she doesn't need a doctor. A coat hangar will do. It's unsafe to the mother but it will work.
Would you put a woman in prison for getting an abortion? Would you put doctors in prison for performing abortions? Would you prefer they just went in the bathroom and used a coat hangar?
Making something illegal doesn't stop it. I'd wish that abortions were never ever an option, but it's not realistic. The prisons are already crowded enough without putting a bunch of women, who have enough problems already, in them.
Imagine a woman has two kids, her husband gets put in jail, while she's pregnant with a third. She doesn't need and can't handle another kid and decides to get an abortion. The cops find her getting ready to get an 'illegal' abortion, and she's in jail too. Now you've got a dad and pregnant mom in jail. Two kids in foster care, and a third on its way.
Abortions are bad, but making them against the law won't stop them. It would take more than that. A good hard look at the media and typical societal values would be a better start than making pregnant women into potential criminals.
Vote: Pro Choice
I have been on many sides of what you all talked about.
First, I am pro-abortion and will remain so for the rest of my life.<hr></blockquote>
I like that you call it as it is, Pro Abortion, not Pro Choice.
[quote]Do you realize you lifers make such a big deal about 1% of the abortions; I know you would prefer to see a woman dead or mamed for life to bring this kind of child to the world, a child that would not survive.<hr></blockquote>
And then you pull this stunt. Ok, all pro Lifers on this board that wish to see a woman dead or mamed for life to bring a child that would not survive into the world, raise your hands. My hand is not raised, is yours? You are presenting a false choice here, either the mother survives or the baby does. Abortion or kill the mom. This is so rare that at the point it happens there are few that would argue for a surgery to save the mothers life. What pro life people do not like is the, "It's my body and it is not human so if I want to remove that parasitic mass of cells from my body I will."
[quote]I made quite a few mistakes in my life, I guess this makes me human; one of them resulted in a baby that I was forced to give up for adoption; during many nights following my parents'choice I cried myself to sleep because I missed my daughter. Also, about adoption, I was adopted and I feel lost, not knowing where I come from.<hr></blockquote>
Really, so you wish you would have killed your daughter instead of putting her up for adoption? Or even closer to home, do you wish you were aborted instead of put up of adoption?
[quote]5 years later I made another mistake and this time I had an abortion which I have never regretted and actually the staff at the hospital never made me feel like scum unlike the first time.<hr></blockquote>
So since the staff was supportive of your choice to kill the baby that must be the right thing to do. Any hospital staff that berates or degrades a mother for choosing to put up their child for adoption is not worthy of being in the health profession. They took an oath to do no harm. Let's see them live by it.
[quote]As for adoption which one of you would give one of your children without blinking an eye and never think about it again.
And no I never gotten pregnant after that.<hr></blockquote>
This is not the choice. The choice is, which of you that had an unplanned pregnancy would decide to kill that child vs. put it up for adoption vs. try to raise it as best you can. Most children that are put up for adoption are not there because their parents got tired of raising them. They were put there because the mother could not raise them, or because the parents were dead. There is also the rare instance of being forced to put the child up for adotpion by parents who are trying to preserve their social status.
I applaud you for your honesty overall. I am sorry you lost 2 children. But at least with the first child you have the option to find her again if you really wanted to.
[ 02-28-2002: Message edited by: NoahJ ]</p>
<strong>I'd rather abortions weren't ever needed/wanted.
When presented with the choice, I went with an 'open adoption' (honest, true story). My daughter will be 8 in July.
Making abortions illegal won't stop them. Making beer illegal in the 1920s didn't stop beer from being produced/sold/consumed.
If a woman/girl wants to kill a fetus that is inside her she doesn't need a doctor. A coat hangar will do. It's unsafe to the mother but it will work.
Would you put a woman in prison for getting an abortion? Would you put doctors in prison for performing abortions? Would you prefer they just went in the bathroom and used a coat hangar?
Making something illegal doesn't stop it. I'd wish that abortions were never ever an option, but it's not realistic. The prisons are already crowded enough without putting a bunch of women, who have enough problems already, in them.
Imagine a woman has two kids, her husband gets put in jail, while she's pregnant with a third. She doesn't need and can't handle another kid and decides to get an abortion. The cops find her getting ready to get an 'illegal' abortion, and she's in jail too. Now you've got a dad and pregnant mom in jail. Two kids in foster care, and a third on its way.
Abortions are bad, but making them against the law won't stop them. It would take more than that. A good hard look at the media and typical societal values would be a better start than making pregnant women into potential criminals.
Vote: Pro Choice</strong><hr></blockquote>
This board is just full of strawmen today. False choices left and right. I am happy you went with the open adoption. I am happy that youmade a choice you can live with.
Now on to the rest of your argument. Prohibition and Abortions are Apples and Oranges. Not even the same thing. Show me someone who is addicted to abortions? Show me someone who has abortions 3-5 times a day. Show me where abortions can relax you after a hard days work. Not the same thing.
If abortions were illegal you would likely see a slight increase in illegal abortions and "coat hanger" abortions. But I doubt it would be that large and likely you would see a greater increase of adoptions at first with an increase in "safe sex" and abstinance when people find that there is not an easy, legal, way to get rid of their unwanted child.
Your story about the cops and the desperate mother is just sad. Yet another false choice. Either abort the child or keep it and add to her misery. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> Sad.
[ 02-28-2002: Message edited by: Jane ]</p>
[QB]In the case of my daughter it would be impossible. Laws are such in Canada that it is impossible. Even if I could since I live in the real world I do realize that her life now is her own not part of mine.
OK I have to spell it out for the prolifers; I had an abortion not because it was convenient but because I could not bare losing another child; it was for me a problem; also I knew that my mother would never speak to me again. Since it is not a movie of the week when she means never it is never. I could not keep it because I had no job and no income and in later I had to be on welfare.
You only see a little face; not the problems that comes along. For you Noah life is simple; it is not so for others.
Do you really care Noah or your just pretend you do. You obviously will never feel the desperation of needing an abortion.
If you are ever in a predicament where you have to make the choice - check into "open adoptions". I know it is a little late now - and that really is too bad.
I went through an open adoption about eight years ago w/my daughter. With open adoptions you meet several groups of parents and decide which seems like the best to raise your child. Also with open adoptions you can keep up on the well being of the child either through pictures or just hanging out. I see my daughter all the time - well, not so much lately since I moved to NYC, but still quite often. Just last August she told me that "her dad said I was her birthdad". :eek: Wasn't quite ready for that, but it was cool. We shared some smiles while we talked.
You don't have a legal right to see the child, but if you meet nice parents they will usually be cool. Her dad is a Republican representative for the State of Kansas. Nice guy. We disagree on a few things, but he's hardworking, with good morals and he's down to earth.
Of course, it still hurt, and it still sucked and I still wish it could have worked but it didn't. It's a long story. I wouldn't want to do it again.
However, at least we had the choice. Even though the mother of my daughter was a pretty devout Baptist and probably wouldn't have gotten an abortion, I wouldn't have wanted to 'force her' to have the child. And I certainly wouldn't have put her in jail for not having it. It was a rough time - a lot of confusing feelings and emotions.
By the way, she hasn't gone to visit our daughter in years. If I talk to her about how well she is doing she thinks I'm doing it to make her jealous. So I've stopped giving her updates. I rarely see the mother anyways.
It still sucks, but it was our choice. No one elses. And we'll deal with it our own way. It seems awfully naive, to me, to hear people who have never been in the situation act like they have the answers. I've spent 8 years thinking about it and I still don't know if it was right. I just know my kid is happy and that's what matters.
[ 02-28-2002: Message edited by: seb ]</p>
[quote]I just know my kid is happy and that's what matters.<hr></blockquote>
I need a standing ovation smiley!
That kid was conceived in a less-than-optimal situation, anything done now should be done with nothing else than her well-being in mind. I wish everyone had your attitude.
The mother, by thinking that you are using the child as a weapon, is dehumanizing that child. Not that it will factor into the girl's development, but it's a disturbing way of looking at the situation.
-----
Jane:
Bringing personal experience into these things makes them complicated, because decorum disallows many people to voice what they truly feel or want to say.
It's a dicey situation, but I'll go ahead and ask a question that I'm sure many many readers thought after reading your posts:
Why, after painfully giving a child up for adoption, were you not taking preventative measures that would have made your subsequent abortion unnecessary?
(And before you post, "It's not your business, etc...", keep in mind that you brought it up.)
That's the way it works with TV and radio emission (in my countrie at least), it think it's the minimum respect required in our forum.
I am Ok to discuss the idea not to judge the other member in the more private aspect of their life.
<strong>OK I have to spell it out for the prolifers; I had an abortion not because it was convenient but because I could not bare losing another child; it was for me a problem; also I knew that my mother would never speak to me again. Since it is not a movie of the week when she means never it is never. I could not keep it because I had no job and no income and in later I had to be on welfare.
You only see a little face; not the problems that comes along. For you Noah life is simple; it is not so for others.
Do you really care Noah or your just pretend you do. You obviously will never feel the desperation of needing an abortion.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Life is not simple. If life were simple i would have no reason to come to this board and post about all the things that we on this board argue about and discuss that are wrong with the world.
So a baby is not a baby. You only see a little face; not the problems that comes along. What am I supposed to see? For me I have 2 sons. The first one had night terrors from 2 months old until about 8 months old. Every night we could almost gurantee that he would wake up screaming in the middle of the night and not calm down for at least 10 mnutes. Then and only then could we pick him up and reassure him as if we touched him any sooner he would really go beserk. My second son had colick for the first 6 months of his life. He was never happy and cried all night long. As soon as he got over that he started cutting teeth and now he cries all the time again. All I see is a little face, none of the problems?
But then you may be speaking of the other aspect you brought up with your mother and her seeming willingness to abandon you because you got pregnant again? I will not address this because i have no insight into your situation with her or how she actually is as a person.
And for the last part about having no job, no income and having to be on welfare, I am sorry to hear that.
I do care about people. I do care about your situation, and I do care what happens to you even though I right now wouldn't know you from anyone else I met on the street. that does not change the fact that I do not agree that abortion is the right answer in that situation. I stand by my assertion that if abortion were not legal many in your situation would not choose a back alley abortion, would not choose a coat hanger in a empty hotel room. They woul not because they know the risks to their life and they want to live. they would likely choose to put the child up for adoption and then learn form the situation to not get in that position again.
An abortion makes that risk negatable. After all, it's not a child, not until you want it to be.
I will never have to deal with an abortion because I am not a woman, and because I am married. We want any children that we make. It makes at least that part easier for me.
abortion is also an instance where the people in power are allowed to decide whether or not the rights of the weak are enforced.
if the mother wants the fetus, killing it is murder (illegal). if not, killing it is abortion.(legal).
raises the interesting question as to whether or not the majority in power should have the ability to revoke the basic human rights of those who are weaker.
-alcimedes
I feel abortion is ok in the cases of rape or incest. Also I think that it is NOT ok to abort when the embryo has taken on clear development of arms and legs, up to this point it is and undefined cell dividing and forming into a human form. I do not wish to be biased on this point but the removal of something that resembles a cell
is not as disturbing to me as the cutting up of a child with developing arms and legs..I have seen these pictures before and it is quite disturbing. So the point I am trying to make is abort when it is only an undefined mass, when development of limbs has begun I do not agree on this point. Let me know if this makes any sense to anyone here please.
Obviously this is a very personal issue, and I just hope the feeling and consideration in this thread will permeate to future/other controversial subjects.
<strong>Also I think that it is NOT ok to abort when the embryo has taken on clear development of arms and legs, up to this point it is and undefined cell dividing and forming into a human form.</strong><hr></blockquote>That makes sense, but that happens pretty quickly - like quickly as in before you would know that you're pregnant in most cases. There's a basic cardiovascular system at about a month after conception, and at 2 months it "looks" human.