just another big corporation trying to screw its customers out of costly warranties...
Ever since the inception of the warranty, companies have been finding ways any way they can to not honor them.
This is a nice and simple way of voiding your warranty even if there is no proof of anything. Next up...if you ever sneeze around your computer the warranty is null! Afterall...it might be a flu hazard...
That's b.s.
I always get AppleCare, and on a couple of occasions, I've seen Apple do extraordinary things above and beyond the call of duty (replacing hardware after AppleCare expired). So you can keep your tired anti-corporate tantrums to yourself.
This smoking issue might be silly and it might not be. Keep in mind that none of us has actually SEEN (or smelled) the computers in question. We might change our minds if we'd been there.
First if the laptop looked like that on the inside then it maybe should have been denied service.
BUT then how would one clean that kind of mess? They can't open the chassis...that would definatley void the warranty.
Smoking is NOT illegal anywhere that I know of. If smoke residue can build up inside of a machine.....especially inside a laptop then one could argue that the machine design was at fault and not the fault of the owner who was doing nothing illegal.
So was the machine design at fault for not providing enough ventilation?
Or was the machine owner at fault for excessive smoking around the computer.....
Very very interesting!!!!
I've worked on a lot on systems like this and in many cases, the cause of "death" to the computer was this buildup of tar. Dust sticks to it, it is really hard to clean and it WILL do damage to computer components. I can see where this will void a warranty.
If its really an OSHA issue Apple would be best not to get involved in it. My grandpa is a small business owner so I know about OSHA and you don't want to get hit with the book by them. Sucks for smokers but what can I say? One more reason not to smoke :P
In the first place just because it isn't illegal now in your country, doesn't mean it won't be soon
See? This is nonsense. You're not really saying anything there. It really doesn't matter whether smoking is legal or illegal, as smoking is an inalienable right. Well, I should say, it's an inalienable right in the mind of anyone who wishes to not be labeled a hypocrite and thinks that they have a right to eat cheeseburgers. If you think people should be locked up for eating cheeseburgers, well, in that case at least you're not a hypocrite.
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Smokers are drug addicts.
Ah, but so are those who drink lots of coffee, and eat lots of chocolate. They are drug addicts too, literally, technically, however you want to qualify it, they are. :-p
I have no problem with people who are addicted to the drug caffeine, nor do I have a problem with people who are addicted to the drug nicotine.
So, unless their warranty doesn't cover coffee spills or nicotine tars and that is in fact the cause of the damage, they are all entitled to have their computers repaired. Otherwise it's just robbery. Shame on Apple.
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Third, all your analogies are junk in that laying around in the sun, eating red meat etc., are not only a choice, they are choices that don't affect anyone else.
I must disagree with you here.
You see, when someone eats red meat they are in fact supporting an industry that is effectively destroying the environment in which you and I live, and so red meat eaters are perhaps more dangerous than smokers.
Likewise, lying around in the sun can give those people who are lying in the sun skin cancer, thereby killing them and robbing their children of adequate raising and nurturing, turning them into criminals who rob me.
Hmm... come to think of it, many of the activities people engage in, even seemingly those that are personal, can have consequences just as bad if not worse than smoking a cigarette, which as you rightly point out, can harm other people as well.
I therefore propose we execute 95% of the population, that outta fix it.
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Smoke is poison (another fact).
It is, and there have been many examples of laptop repair people dying as a result of touching a computer contaminated by smoke. I have the statistics lying around here somewhere...
I myself have lost 3 friends due to this phenomenon, and they were even wearing masks and gloves!
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Drug addicts don't have the same rights as normal people and there is no "inalienable right" to do drugs.
You are absolutely correct. Perhaps you'll join me in a similar quest to rid the world of those addicted to coffee, chocolate, McDonald's fries, and various other pollutants. Maybe we could pool our asshole resources and finally create a Christian/Catholic utopia where people do not have sex, use scissors with sharp edges, ride bicycles without helmets, and other dangerous and irresponsible activities.
My friend, you are truly an inspiration to us all. Can I offer you my hallway patrol safety belt that I wore proudly as a maggot of age 7? Those hallways have never been as clean and free of hooligans as when I was around, striking fear in the hearts of anyone with who had any spirit left in them. It's a cherished memory, that belt, but you remind me so much of myself that I think you should have it, I'm getting too old for it...
This is freaking hilarious considering the health risks every one of their employees face walking into any number of factories in China. Nor, do they seem the care for the health of the indentured servants in those factories.
This is freaking hilarious considering the health risks every one of their employees face walking into any number of factories in China. Nor, do they seem the care for the health of the indentured servants in those factories.
Do you have proof that these workers have no choice in the matter and are not able to quite work if they so choose? Are you implying that the Chinese factories that make Apple?s products are less healthy than the Chinese factories that make all other products in the world?
Man, that cigarette smoke is GUNKY. Imagine that stuff coating your lungs. You know what is worse, though? Smoke from incense candles. That stuff sticks to heatsinks like you wouldn't believe.
If you smoke damage a computer, from any source, your warranty is void. Period. That is likely Apple's policy. The "safety" explanations may have been bogus. There is not enough detail in the story to know if in fact it is Apple's policy not to service smoke damaged computers. The specific information indicating the customers requested non-warranty repair when refused warranty repair, and then were told they would not do so because of health reasons, seems to be missing. This might well be a bit of sensationalized journalism as well.
This is truly mind-boggling, if true! Corporatism at its worst. Can't they wear some gloves and a mask?! Where are we heading next? Apple campus is going to be sealed off in an antiseptic bubble?
Apple expects us to wear sunglasses while operating their high glare glossy screens so we should at least expect them to put on the gloves and a mask- right?
As a former Mac Genius, I can tell you that the computer was refused service under AppleCare because Apple cannot cover a malfunction that is due to USER NEGLECT under their warranty. I know everyone is trying to say that its just another way to screw their customers but consider these two thoughts:
1- If you crash your car into a tree, would you expect the car manufacturer to repair YOUR damage under warranty? I would surely hope not. And if you do think that Apple (or any manufacturer) should pay for YOUR neglect, you should take a long walk off a short pier and sue the manufacturer of the pier. Oh wait, you'll be dead, thats right. How can Apple warranty against abuse? They can only tell you that if their product FAILS (meaning, breaks of its own accord), they will repair the unit for you as long as the warranty is still valid. If your computer is caked with nicotine and tar, it is not Apple's fault that you have literally suffocated your computer. If you don't like that, cancel your AppleCare agreement and they will refund the balance to you, no questions asked. Call 1-800-APL-CARE and ask to speak to Agreement Admin. Oh, and if you think that nobody ever told you that, take a look at the warranty that you agree to the first time you ever turned on your computer. It's on the bottom of the very first page. http://images.apple.com/legal/warran...puwarranty.pdf
2- Why should a computer technician be forced to be subjected to your disgustingness? They didn't do anything to deserve that. The hard working men and women that repair your computers have it hard enough listening to you bitch about how its not your fault that the computer is broken and blah blah blah. Nobody deserves to have to work in that kind of filth, and you are NOBODY to say that they should have to. If you feel so strongly that I am wrong, go work in the service business for a week and you'll understand. If you don't want to do the job yourself, then shut up about it and stop being a disgusting person. Smoking is a choice, just like anything else, and you choose to smoke around your computer. Hell, if you think that it is your god given right to smoke around your computer and then for Apple to pay for your neglect, tell your doctor that its his or her problem when you have emphysema. It's not like they didn't tell you it would happen.
just another big corporation trying to screw its customers out of costly warranties...
One person was allegedly told that the damage was caused by tar buildup from smoking around the machine. not really that different than excluding water damage.
As for the emails to Steve and the nicotine bit, no proof it happened at this point. so maybe it did, maybe it didn't.
And who is to say that OSHA doesn't have such rules, did you bother to look. Perhaps they do and perhaps they do define nicotine as a hazard substance. In which cause Apple could be sued by an employee if they forced the person to do the repair. OSHA rules are wacky like that.
This is freaking hilarious considering the health risks every one of their employees face walking into any number of factories in China. Nor, do they seem the care for the health of the indentured servants in those factories.
Superb point. Hey, if we can outsource our waste, pollution, after-sales service, etc etc and make ourselves all nice and antiseptic in the process, why not! (oops.... I don't smoke...)
This is about the most ridiculous story I have come across in a while. I'd like to see Sub Zero, BMW or Sony try this one.
What a bunch of whining Pussies here.
Really- what's next- "You have to use your Mac in an antiseptically controlled environment"? Apple should design the vents etc so they're not prone to this or post a warning sticker. I mean who would blow smoke directly on their laptop constantly if that picture is to be believed. Apple should at least post a warning to use an air blaster periodically if you smoke whatever or live in dusty environs.
No, it wouldn’t. AppleCare protects against manufacturing issues. Nothing about tar smoke or dropping an iPhone in a toilet is a problem is a problem with the manufacturing.
Warranties are insurance against the manufacturer’s error, not your own. I’m always amazed that people feel entitled to be able to do the stupidest things with their products and expect that someone else should pay for their stupidity.
Sledge hammers are legal but I smash up my Mac with one I will not be expecting a free replacement. if My house catches fire and the soot and smoke clogs my Mac my home owners insurance will pay for a replacement.
I think what GeekDad was saying is that there should be a little window that pops up, or a disclaimer at the apple store that says "by smoking near your computer, you may void your warranty" allowing the customer to say "yes, I understand the risk of voiding the warranty I am purchasing" or to say "uh, never mind, I'll opt to not deal with it". I think its a reasonable request. Makes the issue much more visable!
I think what GeekDad was saying is that there should be a little window that pops up, or a disclaimer at the apple store that says "by smoking near your computer, you may void your warranty" allowing the customer to say "yes, I understand the risk of voiding the warranty I am purchasing" or to say "uh, never mind, I'll opt to not deal with it". I think its a reasonable request. Makes the issue much more visable!
They do, you agree to it when you first turn on your computer. It is in very clear language in the warranty.
Drug addicts don't have the same rights as normal people and there is no "inalienable right" to do drugs. Even if there were, a person's human rights end where another's begin. A person may have the right to shoot a gun, but they don't have the right to shoot it at someone else. Even if a smoker had some kind of "right" to smoke, they don't have the right to do it around anyone else.
Smoking will be illegal in public in your lifetime probably. Get used to it.
Say whaaaaat? Just because something is harmful or stupid does not make it instantly "illegal". Smoking in public will not be illegal. Smoking near another person or in an enclosed space may very likely become illegal, since there is in fact harm done from the second-hand smoke. Even so, if a person wants to harm their person, as long as it does no harm to another, should never be illegal. Freedom of choice includes the freedom to injure or kill yourself, but "society" does not owe that person health care or hospitalization.
Apple should state upfront that either that a person in that situation would not qualify for Applecare, or they should charge extra.
sounds like you are suggesting that the sales people violate the customer's right to privacy and ask if they are smokers or just give a nice "oh and if you smoke or eat or drink or . . . or . . . or . . . around your computer don't bother bringing it in cause we won't fix anything" every time.
As a former Mac Genius, I can tell you that the computer was refused service under AppleCare because Apple cannot cover a malfunction that is due to USER NEGLECT under their warranty.
You know this? Care to provide any evidence? Especially, considering the story that we are responding to specifically says "One reader received a response advising that "nicotine is on OSHA's list of hazardous substances and Apple would not require an employee to repair anything deemed hazardous to their health."
Comments
just another big corporation trying to screw its customers out of costly warranties...
Ever since the inception of the warranty, companies have been finding ways any way they can to not honor them.
This is a nice and simple way of voiding your warranty even if there is no proof of anything. Next up...if you ever sneeze around your computer the warranty is null! Afterall...it might be a flu hazard...
That's b.s.
I always get AppleCare, and on a couple of occasions, I've seen Apple do extraordinary things above and beyond the call of duty (replacing hardware after AppleCare expired). So you can keep your tired anti-corporate tantrums to yourself.
This smoking issue might be silly and it might not be. Keep in mind that none of us has actually SEEN (or smelled) the computers in question. We might change our minds if we'd been there.
Remember: until you know, you don't know.
Now this brings up a few things......
First if the laptop looked like that on the inside then it maybe should have been denied service.
BUT then how would one clean that kind of mess? They can't open the chassis...that would definatley void the warranty.
Smoking is NOT illegal anywhere that I know of. If smoke residue can build up inside of a machine.....especially inside a laptop then one could argue that the machine design was at fault and not the fault of the owner who was doing nothing illegal.
So was the machine design at fault for not providing enough ventilation?
Or was the machine owner at fault for excessive smoking around the computer.....
Very very interesting!!!!
I've worked on a lot on systems like this and in many cases, the cause of "death" to the computer was this buildup of tar. Dust sticks to it, it is really hard to clean and it WILL do damage to computer components. I can see where this will void a warranty.
if you've gotten enough residue in your computer that the techie is even able to notice, shame on you. you deserve to have your warranty voided.
stop complaining and just be happy you're still alive.
This is nonsense.
Really? I thought he made an excellent point.
In the first place just because it isn't illegal now in your country, doesn't mean it won't be soon
See? This is nonsense. You're not really saying anything there. It really doesn't matter whether smoking is legal or illegal, as smoking is an inalienable right. Well, I should say, it's an inalienable right in the mind of anyone who wishes to not be labeled a hypocrite and thinks that they have a right to eat cheeseburgers. If you think people should be locked up for eating cheeseburgers, well, in that case at least you're not a hypocrite.
Smokers are drug addicts.
Ah, but so are those who drink lots of coffee, and eat lots of chocolate. They are drug addicts too, literally, technically, however you want to qualify it, they are. :-p
I have no problem with people who are addicted to the drug caffeine, nor do I have a problem with people who are addicted to the drug nicotine.
So, unless their warranty doesn't cover coffee spills or nicotine tars and that is in fact the cause of the damage, they are all entitled to have their computers repaired. Otherwise it's just robbery. Shame on Apple.
Third, all your analogies are junk in that laying around in the sun, eating red meat etc., are not only a choice, they are choices that don't affect anyone else.
I must disagree with you here.
You see, when someone eats red meat they are in fact supporting an industry that is effectively destroying the environment in which you and I live, and so red meat eaters are perhaps more dangerous than smokers.
Likewise, lying around in the sun can give those people who are lying in the sun skin cancer, thereby killing them and robbing their children of adequate raising and nurturing, turning them into criminals who rob me.
Hmm... come to think of it, many of the activities people engage in, even seemingly those that are personal, can have consequences just as bad if not worse than smoking a cigarette, which as you rightly point out, can harm other people as well.
I therefore propose we execute 95% of the population, that outta fix it.
Smoke is poison (another fact).
It is, and there have been many examples of laptop repair people dying as a result of touching a computer contaminated by smoke. I have the statistics lying around here somewhere...
I myself have lost 3 friends due to this phenomenon, and they were even wearing masks and gloves!
Drug addicts don't have the same rights as normal people and there is no "inalienable right" to do drugs.
You are absolutely correct. Perhaps you'll join me in a similar quest to rid the world of those addicted to coffee, chocolate, McDonald's fries, and various other pollutants. Maybe we could pool our asshole resources and finally create a Christian/Catholic utopia where people do not have sex, use scissors with sharp edges, ride bicycles without helmets, and other dangerous and irresponsible activities.
My friend, you are truly an inspiration to us all. Can I offer you my hallway patrol safety belt that I wore proudly as a maggot of age 7? Those hallways have never been as clean and free of hooligans as when I was around, striking fear in the hearts of anyone with who had any spirit left in them. It's a cherished memory, that belt, but you remind me so much of myself that I think you should have it, I'm getting too old for it...
This is freaking hilarious considering the health risks every one of their employees face walking into any number of factories in China. Nor, do they seem the care for the health of the indentured servants in those factories.
Do you have proof that these workers have no choice in the matter and are not able to quite work if they so choose? Are you implying that the Chinese factories that make Apple?s products are less healthy than the Chinese factories that make all other products in the world?
Just say no! Your computer will thank you!
Man, that cigarette smoke is GUNKY. Imagine that stuff coating your lungs. You know what is worse, though? Smoke from incense candles. That stuff sticks to heatsinks like you wouldn't believe.
This is truly mind-boggling, if true! Corporatism at its worst. Can't they wear some gloves and a mask?! Where are we heading next? Apple campus is going to be sealed off in an antiseptic bubble?
Apple expects us to wear sunglasses while operating their high glare glossy screens so we should at least expect them to put on the gloves and a mask- right?
1- If you crash your car into a tree, would you expect the car manufacturer to repair YOUR damage under warranty? I would surely hope not. And if you do think that Apple (or any manufacturer) should pay for YOUR neglect, you should take a long walk off a short pier and sue the manufacturer of the pier. Oh wait, you'll be dead, thats right. How can Apple warranty against abuse? They can only tell you that if their product FAILS (meaning, breaks of its own accord), they will repair the unit for you as long as the warranty is still valid. If your computer is caked with nicotine and tar, it is not Apple's fault that you have literally suffocated your computer. If you don't like that, cancel your AppleCare agreement and they will refund the balance to you, no questions asked. Call 1-800-APL-CARE and ask to speak to Agreement Admin. Oh, and if you think that nobody ever told you that, take a look at the warranty that you agree to the first time you ever turned on your computer. It's on the bottom of the very first page. http://images.apple.com/legal/warran...puwarranty.pdf
2- Why should a computer technician be forced to be subjected to your disgustingness? They didn't do anything to deserve that. The hard working men and women that repair your computers have it hard enough listening to you bitch about how its not your fault that the computer is broken and blah blah blah. Nobody deserves to have to work in that kind of filth, and you are NOBODY to say that they should have to. If you feel so strongly that I am wrong, go work in the service business for a week and you'll understand. If you don't want to do the job yourself, then shut up about it and stop being a disgusting person. Smoking is a choice, just like anything else, and you choose to smoke around your computer. Hell, if you think that it is your god given right to smoke around your computer and then for Apple to pay for your neglect, tell your doctor that its his or her problem when you have emphysema. It's not like they didn't tell you it would happen.
just another big corporation trying to screw its customers out of costly warranties...
One person was allegedly told that the damage was caused by tar buildup from smoking around the machine. not really that different than excluding water damage.
As for the emails to Steve and the nicotine bit, no proof it happened at this point. so maybe it did, maybe it didn't.
And who is to say that OSHA doesn't have such rules, did you bother to look. Perhaps they do and perhaps they do define nicotine as a hazard substance. In which cause Apple could be sued by an employee if they forced the person to do the repair. OSHA rules are wacky like that.
This is freaking hilarious considering the health risks every one of their employees face walking into any number of factories in China. Nor, do they seem the care for the health of the indentured servants in those factories.
Superb point. Hey, if we can outsource our waste, pollution, after-sales service, etc etc and make ourselves all nice and antiseptic in the process, why not!
This is about the most ridiculous story I have come across in a while. I'd like to see Sub Zero, BMW or Sony try this one.
What a bunch of whining Pussies here.
Really- what's next- "You have to use your Mac in an antiseptically controlled environment"? Apple should design the vents etc so they're not prone to this or post a warning sticker. I mean who would blow smoke directly on their laptop constantly if that picture is to be believed. Apple should at least post a warning to use an air blaster periodically if you smoke whatever or live in dusty environs.
No, it wouldn’t. AppleCare protects against manufacturing issues. Nothing about tar smoke or dropping an iPhone in a toilet is a problem is a problem with the manufacturing.
Warranties are insurance against the manufacturer’s error, not your own. I’m always amazed that people feel entitled to be able to do the stupidest things with their products and expect that someone else should pay for their stupidity.
Sledge hammers are legal but I smash up my Mac with one I will not be expecting a free replacement. if My house catches fire and the soot and smoke clogs my Mac my home owners insurance will pay for a replacement.
I think what GeekDad was saying is that there should be a little window that pops up, or a disclaimer at the apple store that says "by smoking near your computer, you may void your warranty" allowing the customer to say "yes, I understand the risk of voiding the warranty I am purchasing" or to say "uh, never mind, I'll opt to not deal with it". I think its a reasonable request. Makes the issue much more visable!
I think what GeekDad was saying is that there should be a little window that pops up, or a disclaimer at the apple store that says "by smoking near your computer, you may void your warranty" allowing the customer to say "yes, I understand the risk of voiding the warranty I am purchasing" or to say "uh, never mind, I'll opt to not deal with it". I think its a reasonable request. Makes the issue much more visable!
They do, you agree to it when you first turn on your computer. It is in very clear language in the warranty.
Drug addicts don't have the same rights as normal people and there is no "inalienable right" to do drugs. Even if there were, a person's human rights end where another's begin. A person may have the right to shoot a gun, but they don't have the right to shoot it at someone else. Even if a smoker had some kind of "right" to smoke, they don't have the right to do it around anyone else.
Smoking will be illegal in public in your lifetime probably. Get used to it.
Say whaaaaat? Just because something is harmful or stupid does not make it instantly "illegal". Smoking in public will not be illegal. Smoking near another person or in an enclosed space may very likely become illegal, since there is in fact harm done from the second-hand smoke. Even so, if a person wants to harm their person, as long as it does no harm to another, should never be illegal. Freedom of choice includes the freedom to injure or kill yourself, but "society" does not owe that person health care or hospitalization.
Apple should state upfront that either that a person in that situation would not qualify for Applecare, or they should charge extra.
sounds like you are suggesting that the sales people violate the customer's right to privacy and ask if they are smokers or just give a nice "oh and if you smoke or eat or drink or . . . or . . . or . . . around your computer don't bother bringing it in cause we won't fix anything" every time.
that will go over real well.
Just say no! Your computer will thank you!
How do we know that picture is a result of cigarettes? That could be from many things.
As a former Mac Genius, I can tell you that the computer was refused service under AppleCare because Apple cannot cover a malfunction that is due to USER NEGLECT under their warranty.
You know this? Care to provide any evidence? Especially, considering the story that we are responding to specifically says "One reader received a response advising that "nicotine is on OSHA's list of hazardous substances and Apple would not require an employee to repair anything deemed hazardous to their health."