Okay, but that wasn't the point of my comment. My comment was directed to your remark that Apple uses software to sell hardware, so that's why the hardware design is so important. If that's what you meant, it's not entirely logical, is what I'm saying.
Okay, but that wasn't the point of my comment. My comment was directed to your remark that Apple uses software to sell hardware, so that's why the hardware design is so important. If that's what you meant, it's not entirely logical, is what I'm saying.
I?m not following your rationale here, either. It seems clear to me that Apple does in fact create their software to sell HW. They also engineer very attractive HW to sell HW, but that doesn?t exclude their endeavors to make their HW even more appealing by making an OS, apps, and even services more appealing to do it.
Even the iPod took off once they created iTunes for Windows. I don?t think the iPod would have been as compelling with only Windows Explorer to load songs or if the iPhone had licensed WinMo.
I?m not following your rationale here, either. It seems clear to me that Apple does in fact create their software to sell HW. They also engineer very attractive HW to sell HW, but that doesn?t exclude their endeavors to make their HW even more appealing by making an OS, apps, and even services more appealing to do it.
Even the iPod took off once they created iTunes for Windows. I don?t think the iPod would have been as compelling with only Windows Explorer to load songs or if the iPhone had licensed WinMo.
I'm not disagreeing with any of this. I am only pointing out what seemed to be a logical inconsistency in the original statement to which I responded. Nothing more, nothing less.
I'm sorry but that notion ink device looks pretty darn ergonomic to me. And I doubt those edges would be sharp once you hold it in your hand. But, I'll reserve judgement till CES. The competition can't just sit there like retards and let Apple steal yet another market segment. They are going to come out guns blazin at CES you just watch!
If I were part of the Apple team working on a secret project I'd probably be seeding every web site and forum with false leads, rumors and misinformation to throw all competitors off the trail.
If I were part of the Apple team working on a secret project I'd probably be seeding every web site and forum with false leads, rumors and misinformation to throw all competitors off the trail.
While I'm sure that has been going on, this Notion Ink device is from a separate company utilizing the Pixel Qi screens and it is supposed to debut at CES.
Competitors WILL announce similar products to compete with the Apple Tablet. They are not waiting to play catch up this time. They have products ready now and will debut in the coming months.
If this is 3g who is going to handle it? AT&T or Verizon? In apples deal with at&t does apple have to put it on the at&t network or not? Where ever it is if it is an extended contract you can count me out. I don't have an iphone for this very reason. If apple really wants to make a statement you should be able to put this on any network you want with no contract. If this was done with the iphone can you imagine how many more would be sold? I know the phone would cost more but for the freedom it would be worth it.
While I disagree with Quadra’s statement about tablets replacing notebooks, the problem with tablets to date have been a lack of consideration for a tablet UI. Cramming Windows into a tablet is not going to make a viable product. If Apple can create a UI with I/O that revolutionizes the way tablets work then their could be a new market for them.
Every year we see notebook interest increasing with desktop interest stagnating. The iMac seems to be the only desktop that seems to have any real growth, despite it being virtually non-upgradable.
I agree, to a point. I see this as a complementary device (perhaps even synced through iTunes). More like a netbook than a full fledged computer. I can see a lot of uses for it but I can’t see it replacing a Mac and therefor can’t see it having ‘Mac’ in the name.
Complementary device is a good term. I've always said that tablets will supplement the current computing experience, not replace it.
Tablets have their uses but here is a list of attributes which can at times be hindrances:
The screen is not in anywhere close to an optimal viewing location unless the device is being held. Tablets occupy one hand during use.
Tablets rely almost entirely on one-handed interaction.
Tablets aren't small enough to fit in a pocket yet still have a small screen.
Tablets are horrible for text input due to the lack of physical keyboard.
Tablets rely on absolute positioning cursor interaction.
The form factor is what dictates the advantages and disadvantages of tablet use. Tablets aren't new and pretty much every university, hardware, and software company has been working with them for quite a long time. It isn't that we don't understand what tablets have to offer. But rather that tablets are non-optimal for most computing tasks.
As soon as they're cheap enough though, we'll all start using them as complimentary devices to our current computing environment. Sure, we may switch a bit of web browsing or emailing to such a devices (to name just a few tasks). But for serious work, we'll still prefer to use more full featured hardware.
It's the form factor that is the limitation, not technological shortcomings.
But yes, I want a tablet.
(Just not as a replacement for my laptop, desktop, or pocket computers)
These are some points I expect Apple to have brilliantly addressed?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler
Tablets rely almost entirely on one-handed interaction.
I hope they multi-touch in the iPhone gets even smarter for a tablet. When my palms on the device it knows where my fingers can extend to so it knows which keybaord type use and where to put it. If my hands are holding it knows that a thumb-based keyboard on an arch should be used so that my thumb can reach all keys with minimal effort. If I?m holding it with on hand then a different keybaord for one hand with five digits is available, potentially having it alter depending on the hand used.
Perhaps I?m too hopeful but I don?t see how so many variations of holding the device can work with a single, static keyboard setup like the iPhone or PC. It certainly doesn?t work with any other tablet.
Quote:
Tablets aren't small enough to fit in a pocket yet still have a small screen.
That is a crutch, but they are large enough to be ideal for other tasks. Sometimes you have to complete give in one area to take in another. I pay more for less power in my MBP over an desktop Mac because I want portability. We understand that easily so I don?t think this is a hard hurdle if the device suits needs that a pocketable device can?t compete with easily.
Quote:
Tablets are horrible for text input due to the lack of physical keyboard.
People said this about the iPhone, too, and yet I have never faster on a phone in my life since getting the iPhone.
Quote:
Tablets rely on absolute positioning cursor interaction.
I see no need for a cursor to be present, like you get when you shoehorn desktop Windows into a tablet. Like the iPhone I expect all apps to use touch. The only caveat is the potential use of a keyboard and mouse where a cursor, scrollbars and other elements may need to appear. Apple may devise a clever way of doing this or simply not also a physical mouse.
I think a lot of this is trial and error R&D that would have to be done to find the best solution, not the making of a single decision in a board room and then trying to force all other technical decisions around it to fit.
You've completely missed the point if you're attempting to rebut that list of form-factor considerations. The list is unrebutable because it is simply describing things inherent to the tablet form. Well, I suppose there was one exception, that they're "horrible for text input".
Though you'd have to be completely crazy to claim that typing on a tablet is as efficient as typing on a real keyboard. Are you really going down that road?
The reason people are willing to type on horribly inefficient input hardware such as pocket-computers/phones is because a full-size keyboard is physically impossible on that size of device yet mobile computing is still desirable. But the fact remains, those devices are anything but efficient for text entry or manipulation. There can be no rational argument about that.
The argument to be made is that the inefficient interaction techniques can be worthwhile due to the mobility provided by the device saddled by those limitation. Hence the pocket-computer (iPhone). The screen is tiny, positional accuracy for interaction is horrible, text input is crap... yet it's all worth it because the portability is sooooo much better than any other form factor.
Where tablets differ from pocket computers is that they are the same size as devices which can include more functional text and pointer interaction hardware. Thus the tradeoff is different. The size doesn't necessitate omission of that hardware. This is precisely why laptops are more popular. People need efficient text and pointer interaction far more than they need the advantages provided by tablets. Thus, when tablets become cheap enough, people will adopt them to supplement their current computing environment.
Though you'd have to be completely crazy to claim that typing on a tablet is as efficient as typing on a real keyboard. Are you really going down that road?
I never implied that. I think you missed my point. They said that typing on the iPhone will suck compared to physical keys on other phones. I?ve found the opposite to true. I didn?t suggest that typing on a giant piece of glass would replace a traditional notebook keyboard. In fact, in another thread I stated quite the opposite.
I did state that I expect Apple to revolutionize the way tablet work and that I hope they make the typing intuitive so that various hand positions can be used effectively. That obviously remains to be seen.
Per an earlier post, since the tablet is meant to be a companion to, not replace your PC, I don?t expect that the tablet will designed for excessive typing, though for a phone I do type excessive on my iPhone, so I suppose that is relative.
Comments
kept in a mayonnaise jar outside Funk & Wagnalls' porch since noon today
Excellent. Thank you for remembering.
No, that is MY design theory. I'm sure that is Apple's as well. But publicly Apple says that they use software to sell hardware.
Still not following you. What am I missing?
No, that is MY design theory. I'm sure that is Apple's as well. But publicly Apple says that they use software to sell hardware.
There's much more to Apple's design philosophy than that. But I'll just let Jonathan explain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0fe800C2CU
Excellent. Thank you for remembering.
Still not following you. What am I missing?
Yeah, what finkleton said. Watch that video link.
Yeah, what finkleton said. Watch that video link.
Okay, but that wasn't the point of my comment. My comment was directed to your remark that Apple uses software to sell hardware, so that's why the hardware design is so important. If that's what you meant, it's not entirely logical, is what I'm saying.
Okay, but that wasn't the point of my comment. My comment was directed to your remark that Apple uses software to sell hardware, so that's why the hardware design is so important. If that's what you meant, it's not entirely logical, is what I'm saying.
I?m not following your rationale here, either. It seems clear to me that Apple does in fact create their software to sell HW. They also engineer very attractive HW to sell HW, but that doesn?t exclude their endeavors to make their HW even more appealing by making an OS, apps, and even services more appealing to do it.
Even the iPod took off once they created iTunes for Windows. I don?t think the iPod would have been as compelling with only Windows Explorer to load songs or if the iPhone had licensed WinMo.
I?m not following your rationale here, either. It seems clear to me that Apple does in fact create their software to sell HW. They also engineer very attractive HW to sell HW, but that doesn?t exclude their endeavors to make their HW even more appealing by making an OS, apps, and even services more appealing to do it.
Even the iPod took off once they created iTunes for Windows. I don?t think the iPod would have been as compelling with only Windows Explorer to load songs or if the iPhone had licensed WinMo.
I'm not disagreeing with any of this. I am only pointing out what seemed to be a logical inconsistency in the original statement to which I responded. Nothing more, nothing less.
I really hate the minimize/maximize button on the Mac and the dock is always in the way.
Try pressing Option when you click on the minimize/maximize...that will make a full screen maximize.
And press Command-Option-D to show/hide the Dock.
I'm sorry but that notion ink device looks pretty darn ergonomic to me. And I doubt those edges would be sharp once you hold it in your hand. But, I'll reserve judgement till CES. The competition can't just sit there like retards and let Apple steal yet another market segment. They are going to come out guns blazin at CES you just watch!
If I were part of the Apple team working on a secret project I'd probably be seeding every web site and forum with false leads, rumors and misinformation to throw all competitors off the trail.
If I were part of the Apple team working on a secret project I'd probably be seeding every web site and forum with false leads, rumors and misinformation to throw all competitors off the trail.
While I'm sure that has been going on, this Notion Ink device is from a separate company utilizing the Pixel Qi screens and it is supposed to debut at CES.
Competitors WILL announce similar products to compete with the Apple Tablet. They are not waiting to play catch up this time. They have products ready now and will debut in the coming months.
2010 is going to be interesting for tech.
users will be "surprised how you interact with the new tablet."
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
Large beige keyboard maybe.
While I disagree with Quadra’s statement about tablets replacing notebooks, the problem with tablets to date have been a lack of consideration for a tablet UI. Cramming Windows into a tablet is not going to make a viable product. If Apple can create a UI with I/O that revolutionizes the way tablets work then their could be a new market for them.
Every year we see notebook interest increasing with desktop interest stagnating. The iMac seems to be the only desktop that seems to have any real growth, despite it being virtually non-upgradable.
I agree, to a point. I see this as a complementary device (perhaps even synced through iTunes). More like a netbook than a full fledged computer. I can see a lot of uses for it but I can’t see it replacing a Mac and therefor can’t see it having ‘Mac’ in the name.
Complementary device is a good term. I've always said that tablets will supplement the current computing experience, not replace it.
Tablets have their uses but here is a list of attributes which can at times be hindrances:
The screen is not in anywhere close to an optimal viewing location unless the device is being held. Tablets occupy one hand during use.
Tablets rely almost entirely on one-handed interaction.
Tablets aren't small enough to fit in a pocket yet still have a small screen.
Tablets are horrible for text input due to the lack of physical keyboard.
Tablets rely on absolute positioning cursor interaction.
The form factor is what dictates the advantages and disadvantages of tablet use. Tablets aren't new and pretty much every university, hardware, and software company has been working with them for quite a long time. It isn't that we don't understand what tablets have to offer. But rather that tablets are non-optimal for most computing tasks.
As soon as they're cheap enough though, we'll all start using them as complimentary devices to our current computing environment. Sure, we may switch a bit of web browsing or emailing to such a devices (to name just a few tasks). But for serious work, we'll still prefer to use more full featured hardware.
It's the form factor that is the limitation, not technological shortcomings.
But yes, I want a tablet.
(Just not as a replacement for my laptop, desktop, or pocket computers)
Tablets rely almost entirely on one-handed interaction.
I hope they multi-touch in the iPhone gets even smarter for a tablet. When my palms on the device it knows where my fingers can extend to so it knows which keybaord type use and where to put it. If my hands are holding it knows that a thumb-based keyboard on an arch should be used so that my thumb can reach all keys with minimal effort. If I?m holding it with on hand then a different keybaord for one hand with five digits is available, potentially having it alter depending on the hand used.
Perhaps I?m too hopeful but I don?t see how so many variations of holding the device can work with a single, static keyboard setup like the iPhone or PC. It certainly doesn?t work with any other tablet.
Tablets aren't small enough to fit in a pocket yet still have a small screen.
That is a crutch, but they are large enough to be ideal for other tasks. Sometimes you have to complete give in one area to take in another. I pay more for less power in my MBP over an desktop Mac because I want portability. We understand that easily so I don?t think this is a hard hurdle if the device suits needs that a pocketable device can?t compete with easily.
Tablets are horrible for text input due to the lack of physical keyboard.
People said this about the iPhone, too, and yet I have never faster on a phone in my life since getting the iPhone.
Tablets rely on absolute positioning cursor interaction.
I see no need for a cursor to be present, like you get when you shoehorn desktop Windows into a tablet. Like the iPhone I expect all apps to use touch. The only caveat is the potential use of a keyboard and mouse where a cursor, scrollbars and other elements may need to appear. Apple may devise a clever way of doing this or simply not also a physical mouse.
I think a lot of this is trial and error R&D that would have to be done to find the best solution, not the making of a single decision in a board room and then trying to force all other technical decisions around it to fit.
Though you'd have to be completely crazy to claim that typing on a tablet is as efficient as typing on a real keyboard. Are you really going down that road?
The reason people are willing to type on horribly inefficient input hardware such as pocket-computers/phones is because a full-size keyboard is physically impossible on that size of device yet mobile computing is still desirable. But the fact remains, those devices are anything but efficient for text entry or manipulation. There can be no rational argument about that.
The argument to be made is that the inefficient interaction techniques can be worthwhile due to the mobility provided by the device saddled by those limitation. Hence the pocket-computer (iPhone). The screen is tiny, positional accuracy for interaction is horrible, text input is crap... yet it's all worth it because the portability is sooooo much better than any other form factor.
Where tablets differ from pocket computers is that they are the same size as devices which can include more functional text and pointer interaction hardware. Thus the tradeoff is different. The size doesn't necessitate omission of that hardware. This is precisely why laptops are more popular. People need efficient text and pointer interaction far more than they need the advantages provided by tablets. Thus, when tablets become cheap enough, people will adopt them to supplement their current computing environment.
Though you'd have to be completely crazy to claim that typing on a tablet is as efficient as typing on a real keyboard. Are you really going down that road?
I never implied that. I think you missed my point. They said that typing on the iPhone will suck compared to physical keys on other phones. I?ve found the opposite to true. I didn?t suggest that typing on a giant piece of glass would replace a traditional notebook keyboard. In fact, in another thread I stated quite the opposite.
I did state that I expect Apple to revolutionize the way tablet work and that I hope they make the typing intuitive so that various hand positions can be used effectively. That obviously remains to be seen.
Per an earlier post, since the tablet is meant to be a companion to, not replace your PC, I don?t expect that the tablet will designed for excessive typing, though for a phone I do type excessive on my iPhone, so I suppose that is relative.