OK, so being an early adopter of new tech means you run the risk of paying more, or being subject to hardware or software glitches.
What does that have to do, again, with Google not having a robust customer service infra-structure? Are people supposed to wait while Google changes its corporate identity before buying hardware directly from them, in order to not be "fools"?
I'm trying to figure out why Extremeskater is making such a strenuous case for never buying anything from Google, ever.
Can't wait for "Hi, I'm a Google, I am an Apple..." ads!
I would not put it past Apple to do this, I think it will be hilarious. I like Google as my search engine but I don't think I am going to stray from Apple.
The iPhone is the first phone I have had longer than 6 months and I am sticking by it. And I love my iMac, macBookpro, airport, .....
Yeah not like the early iPhone fanbois that stood in line for hours only to have the iPhone drop 200.00.
I guarantee the Nexus One will drop more in price than the iPhone has. In a year, people won't even remember the original Nexus One on T-Mobile. There is such a random mishmash of google phones coming out with each carrier getting a unique phone that the Nexus one will be lost in the crowd.
Anyone who's tried to use google apps at an enterprise level won't be surprised at this. Google builds great stuff and throws it over the wall the to the users. There is no support. As an alternative, there are forums filled with thousands and thousands of messages that take hours to sort through. It's an unfortunate fact of life that if you have thousands of people trying to use something, some of them are going to run into unanticipated problems. Google should have coupled this well engineered phone product with a well-engineered support system at roll out to avoid ending up with a bad smell.
The most basic Google product is adwords. I can't believe how hard its been to use. I spent weeks in limbo with an ad they said would run, but didn't and I couldn't find anyone anywhere to tell me why it wasn't working. It required practically a revolt on their users forums before someone from Google noticed and fixed it. Not impressive.
I don't think it has anything to do with early adopters. The problem seems to be partly that everybody is passing the buck and Google has no real help line. It's pretty stupid that they don't. It's a really bad thing for Google if early adopters, and likely tech savvy people, are having problems. Unless the problems iron themselves out they won't get a lot of people buying. I wonder what the problem/call rate is for Android phones vs. iPhones and how happy are the customers with the support they receive. Recently I bought an iTunes gift card and for some reason when I scratched the back I couldn't read all the numbers. So I wrote to Apple and with in 3 hours, on a weekend mind you, I got a reply and they gave me the correct number. It was supposed to take up to 2 days. If it was Google I'd still be waiting I think and out $25.00.
Eh give Google a break, its their first hardware product, I'm sure Apple wasn't th... I know Apple wasn't that great in the beginning. Remember just before the eMac went out of style, very few people liked Mac's.
Personally I think you shouldn't be buying the newest hot techno item unless you know how to troubleshoot stuff yourself, what are the issues these people are running into?
What Apple manages to accomplish, can only really by accomplished by Apple. Apple approaches tech (and support) from a completely different place. Bertrand Serlet's comment about this last year was spot on.
Hey, you should consider starting your own church. Seems you really trust that Apple is the messiah company in the world of pretenders, so it is a great foundation for you.
Funny. I know about 5 early adopters. None of them were pissed.
exactly.
and let's not forget that so far apple has updated those early adopters that shelled out the 'full' price to the newest system software at no price. granted - some of the features aren't supported by the hardware, but if memory doesn't fail me, the very first 'official' google phones weren't capable of running even the next version of android. how's that for abandoning early adopters, most of them probably developers?
also: iirc, the data plans for the first iphone version were 10 bucks cheaper than after the price drop, saving 240 bucks over the length of the contract. i also seem to recall that those iphones were fetching pretty high prices on ebay...
if you always wait for the better/cheaper/shinier version, you should never buy, as it's always just on the horizon.
The most basic Google product is adwords. I can't believe how hard its been to use. I spent weeks in limbo with an ad they said would run, but didn't and I couldn't find anyone anywhere to tell me why it wasn't working. It required practically a revolt on their users forums before someone from Google noticed and fixed it. Not impressive.
precisely. i would go as far as: adwords is only product that matters to google. everything else is just a delivery vehicle.
there's a reason the rest is mostly in beta - beta products are generally unsupported. google takes great pride in their herd of nerds, and rightly so for the products that matter to them. but engineers aren't usually good at supporting the unwashed masses. support takes a different skill set than a googleplex full of PhDs can supply.
So what is the difference between a "Google" phone and a "Google experience" phone?
There are differences between a HTC Android phone and a "Google experience" Android phone.
This is what Eric Lin, HTC Global PR and Online Community Manager had to say:-
?The Vodafone version of Magic has ?with Google? on the back, like the G1. This simple phrase indicates that the phone has a pure Google experience ? no customizations have been made to the software.?
?The Magic being sold in most of Asia is not a Google experience phone, so we have started to put some of the HTC special sauce into Android. That Magic has Exchange support, a much more responsive and full featured camera application, a custom dialer application with smart dial and additional widgets as well.?
So wouldn't these phones have been the first "Google" phones?
Quote:
Originally Posted by shavex
Eh give Google a break, its their first hardware product, I'm sure Apple wasn't th... I know Apple wasn't that great in the beginning. Remember just before the eMac went out of style, very few people liked Mac's.
Personally I think you shouldn't be buying the newest hot techno item unless you know how to troubleshoot stuff yourself, what are the issues these people are running into?
When launching the iPhone, Apple staunchly insisted that AT&T and other carrier partners allow it to handle much of the customer support itself, which helped to head off the problem of users being passed back and forth between the hardware vendor, the carrier, and the software developer.
it's a logical move. Apple made the hardware and the software they should support those items. ATT handles the billing and other carrier stuff.
pity google didn't have similar logic, cause the Nexus might have had a shot at being a real iphone compet
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskater
Nothing is wrong with standing in line. What wrong is anyone that knows anything about technology knows early adopters are fools that like to give away their money.
if this were most other companies I would agree with you. but Apple actually makes an effort to ease the pain when things do go wonky with the early models. the retail stores and whole genius bar makes that effort possible.
I remember back in the day before the Geek Squad and all that, my parents ordering a Gateway computer. what a nightmare getting support for that. I would never have early adopted with them.
and on the issue of bigger,better, cheaper. that just happens. it's the nature of the game with computers, phones etc at the moment. which is another thing that is a positive about Apple, you don't have to re-up every time. I have g3s and g4s that are still working. I can't run Final Cut etc on them but I can handle my email, run quickbooks etc just fine.
Nothing is wrong with standing in line. What wrong is anyone that knows anything about technology knows early adopters are fools that like to give away their money. Its very hard to argue that point in this case seeing the 4gb iPhone was dropped soon afterwards and the 8gb iPhone had a 200.00 price drop.
iPhone 3Gs users paid 199.00 compared to 599.00 for a phone that is far superior compared to the gen1 model. And the only downside is they weren't the first on their block to have an iPhone.
When it comes to technology any early adopter might as well have sucker stamped on their forehead.
You know, I recall that, factoring the cost of the plan, the 3G buyers paid more for theirs than the original people did. It was just a matter of up front vs. amortized costs. When the 3G was announced, I thought about buying the older model because of the cheaper data plan. I really didn't understand why Apple dropped the price so quickly though, that ends up being an additional $50 a month for getting it a couple months earlier than the Oct 2007 buyers, all said and done. I've paid $50 for phones that lasted me several years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofino
exactly.
and let's not forget that so far apple has updated those early adopters that shelled out the 'full' price to the newest system software at no price. granted - some of the features aren't supported by the hardware, but if memory doesn't fail me, the very first 'official' google phones weren't capable of running even the next version of android. how's that for abandoning early adopters, most of them probably developers?
I recall that updates are coming, 2.0 is only a couple months old right now.
Quote:
if you always wait for the better/cheaper/shinier version, you should never buy, as it's always just on the horizon.
I don't think the argument was about waiting for product revision z, but waiting for product revision b, after all the bugs and mistakes in initial design assumptions are shaken out.
The most basic Google product is adwords. I can't believe how hard its been to use. I spent weeks in limbo with an ad they said would run, but didn't and I couldn't find anyone anywhere to tell me why it wasn't working. It required practically a revolt on their users forums before someone from Google noticed and fixed it. Not impressive.
you should have been on the other side. I know several folks were, just dollars away from their first check, banned from Adsense. bland form letter, no real explanation, no one to contact for details, no way to appeal etc. the only thing we could find in common was that they made that level really fast, like in the first month. it was like Google was worried that these folks would make some real money so out they had to go.
and i'll bet anything that the advertisers were still charged for the hits, making Google a nice bit of change they didn't have to share
Is this really bypassing the search engine? Using bookmarks might also be a way to bypass search, but really, once I know where a site is, I don't need to use Google for it, it a search wasn't needed for that use. Whether I use the NY Times app or their web site, I don't need Google's search to do that, either way, I already know where to find them. A search is only necessary to find new sources of information.
It is, because search doesn't depend on Google if you are looking for information the company can have the program provide, as many of the apps do.
But, in addition, even when the search engine is being used, the consumer only sees the found results presented directly in the program, and thus, never Googles search result pages. therefor, no paid Ads that Google can say was clicked to, and so they don't get paid.
You point out the NYTimes app, which I also use. Normally, you would be searching Google for those articles, and coming up with a lot of paid results on top, as well as those on the sidebar. Now, you go directly to the page. The same thing is true for the other news apps, the music apps, the movie apps, the restaurant apps, weather apps, etc. You never see Google.
You can find new information with the many apps that offer specialized searches on their own, as some of those I mentioned already.
If you don't know an article is in the NY TIMES, the WSJ, Bloomberg's, etc, you have to search Google for it, but not now. It's much easier to find this stuff on the apps rather than on the web sites, esp on such a small screen as phones offer. The web sites are very complex.
these days pro0ducts like the cracked screen PRE are rushed to market
making early buyers at great risk of being f..ed . the 3 rd cycle is 60 percent cheaper and works 3x better
in the past it was only S W that was a risk to use at the start ,
Most new products don't have major problems. It may seem that way because of the publicity they get, but it isn't true.
And we have two definitions of early adopter, or as some are calling it, first adopter.
Even first models are usually going to be good once some manufacturing teething problems are fixed. That usually takes a few weeks. After that, buying the first model usually carries little risk.
So those eager to get that first model usually need only to wait a short while to see if there are any show stoppers. Apple and Palm have fixed their early problems.
But those who wait for the second model are playing a fools game, because the second model can have the same defects as the first. It can have new defects, and you still need to wait a few weeks.
It solves nothing to wait for a second model unless the first lacks features you want, and feel that the second will have. But if it doesn't, and you get the next model anyway, you wasted a year. I took that chance with the iPhone, and I was lucky.
Obviously you don't own a business. Trying to provide the type of customer service that e-commerce hounds have gotten used to is near impossible.
You, just like every other consumer out there, have been spoiled by this over-the-top customer service. To the point where you think its insulting when you have to go through a myriad of keypad navigation before getting to talk to someone. It doesn't matter that your issue is no more or less important than any of the other few million people who bought the same product and manage to use it without calling and screaming at a minimum wage employee. It doesn't matter that the purpose of Contact Us form is to provide a concise way (for the business) to organize and respond to issues.
None of that matters. What matters to you is that you want what you want right now, without any care on how its accomplished. Whether its your fault, or not your fault. Fix me fix me! Give me stuff because I had to wait 5 minutes for you to call me back! That's 5 minutes with my product that I can never get back!
Fact: If people weren't impatient, rude, and flat out stupid, retailers would not need babysitters as customer service reps, they could have a few well-trained individuals.
I've had two businesses. customer service is one of the most important areas of a company. The problem is that it usually is a loss for the company, a negative impact on the bottom line.
Many companies don't realize that poor customer service costs them customers. It costs them the most important customers, repeat customers, the ones who recommend you to others. The ones you can count on coming back time and again.
Poor customer service is equated with poor product quality, because the poor service makes the problem appear to be worse than it actually is. When you bring your machine to Apple's genius bar, you can usually get it repaired on the spot, and if not, they can take it in for you. That makes customers feel as though the company cares.
Who else does that? MS is supposedly trying in its new store, but we'll see how that goes.
Comments
What does that have to do, again, with Google not having a robust customer service infra-structure? Are people supposed to wait while Google changes its corporate identity before buying hardware directly from them, in order to not be "fools"?
I'm trying to figure out why Extremeskater is making such a strenuous case for never buying anything from Google, ever.
Can't wait for "Hi, I'm a Google, I am an Apple..." ads!
I would not put it past Apple to do this, I think it will be hilarious. I like Google as my search engine but I don't think I am going to stray from Apple.
The iPhone is the first phone I have had longer than 6 months and I am sticking by it. And I love my iMac, macBookpro, airport, .....
JD
Yeah not like the early iPhone fanbois that stood in line for hours only to have the iPhone drop 200.00.
I guarantee the Nexus One will drop more in price than the iPhone has. In a year, people won't even remember the original Nexus One on T-Mobile. There is such a random mishmash of google phones coming out with each carrier getting a unique phone that the Nexus one will be lost in the crowd.
Anyone who's tried to use google apps at an enterprise level won't be surprised at this. Google builds great stuff and throws it over the wall the to the users. There is no support. As an alternative, there are forums filled with thousands and thousands of messages that take hours to sort through. It's an unfortunate fact of life that if you have thousands of people trying to use something, some of them are going to run into unanticipated problems. Google should have coupled this well engineered phone product with a well-engineered support system at roll out to avoid ending up with a bad smell.
The most basic Google product is adwords. I can't believe how hard its been to use. I spent weeks in limbo with an ad they said would run, but didn't and I couldn't find anyone anywhere to tell me why it wasn't working. It required practically a revolt on their users forums before someone from Google noticed and fixed it. Not impressive.
Personally I think you shouldn't be buying the newest hot techno item unless you know how to troubleshoot stuff yourself, what are the issues these people are running into?
What Apple manages to accomplish, can only really by accomplished by Apple. Apple approaches tech (and support) from a completely different place. Bertrand Serlet's comment about this last year was spot on.
Hey, you should consider starting your own church. Seems you really trust that Apple is the messiah company in the world of pretenders, so it is a great foundation for you.
In Steve we trust !
Funny. I know about 5 early adopters. None of them were pissed.
exactly.
and let's not forget that so far apple has updated those early adopters that shelled out the 'full' price to the newest system software at no price. granted - some of the features aren't supported by the hardware, but if memory doesn't fail me, the very first 'official' google phones weren't capable of running even the next version of android. how's that for abandoning early adopters, most of them probably developers?
also: iirc, the data plans for the first iphone version were 10 bucks cheaper than after the price drop, saving 240 bucks over the length of the contract. i also seem to recall that those iphones were fetching pretty high prices on ebay...
if you always wait for the better/cheaper/shinier version, you should never buy, as it's always just on the horizon.
The most basic Google product is adwords. I can't believe how hard its been to use. I spent weeks in limbo with an ad they said would run, but didn't and I couldn't find anyone anywhere to tell me why it wasn't working. It required practically a revolt on their users forums before someone from Google noticed and fixed it. Not impressive.
precisely. i would go as far as: adwords is only product that matters to google. everything else is just a delivery vehicle.
there's a reason the rest is mostly in beta - beta products are generally unsupported. google takes great pride in their herd of nerds, and rightly so for the products that matter to them. but engineers aren't usually good at supporting the unwashed masses. support takes a different skill set than a googleplex full of PhDs can supply.
There are differences between a HTC Android phone and a "Google experience" Android phone.
This is what Eric Lin, HTC Global PR and Online Community Manager had to say:-
?The Vodafone version of Magic has ?with Google? on the back, like the G1. This simple phrase indicates that the phone has a pure Google experience ? no customizations have been made to the software.?
?The Magic being sold in most of Asia is not a Google experience phone, so we have started to put some of the HTC special sauce into Android. That Magic has Exchange support, a much more responsive and full featured camera application, a custom dialer application with smart dial and additional widgets as well.?
Source
So wouldn't these phones have been the first "Google" phones?
Eh give Google a break, its their first hardware product, I'm sure Apple wasn't th... I know Apple wasn't that great in the beginning. Remember just before the eMac went out of style, very few people liked Mac's.
Personally I think you shouldn't be buying the newest hot techno item unless you know how to troubleshoot stuff yourself, what are the issues these people are running into?
When launching the iPhone, Apple staunchly insisted that AT&T and other carrier partners allow it to handle much of the customer support itself, which helped to head off the problem of users being passed back and forth between the hardware vendor, the carrier, and the software developer.
it's a logical move. Apple made the hardware and the software they should support those items. ATT handles the billing and other carrier stuff.
pity google didn't have similar logic, cause the Nexus might have had a shot at being a real iphone compet
Nothing is wrong with standing in line. What wrong is anyone that knows anything about technology knows early adopters are fools that like to give away their money.
if this were most other companies I would agree with you. but Apple actually makes an effort to ease the pain when things do go wonky with the early models. the retail stores and whole genius bar makes that effort possible.
I remember back in the day before the Geek Squad and all that, my parents ordering a Gateway computer. what a nightmare getting support for that. I would never have early adopted with them.
and on the issue of bigger,better, cheaper. that just happens. it's the nature of the game with computers, phones etc at the moment. which is another thing that is a positive about Apple, you don't have to re-up every time. I have g3s and g4s that are still working. I can't run Final Cut etc on them but I can handle my email, run quickbooks etc just fine.
Nothing is wrong with standing in line. What wrong is anyone that knows anything about technology knows early adopters are fools that like to give away their money. Its very hard to argue that point in this case seeing the 4gb iPhone was dropped soon afterwards and the 8gb iPhone had a 200.00 price drop.
iPhone 3Gs users paid 199.00 compared to 599.00 for a phone that is far superior compared to the gen1 model. And the only downside is they weren't the first on their block to have an iPhone.
When it comes to technology any early adopter might as well have sucker stamped on their forehead.
You know, I recall that, factoring the cost of the plan, the 3G buyers paid more for theirs than the original people did. It was just a matter of up front vs. amortized costs. When the 3G was announced, I thought about buying the older model because of the cheaper data plan. I really didn't understand why Apple dropped the price so quickly though, that ends up being an additional $50 a month for getting it a couple months earlier than the Oct 2007 buyers, all said and done. I've paid $50 for phones that lasted me several years.
exactly.
and let's not forget that so far apple has updated those early adopters that shelled out the 'full' price to the newest system software at no price. granted - some of the features aren't supported by the hardware, but if memory doesn't fail me, the very first 'official' google phones weren't capable of running even the next version of android. how's that for abandoning early adopters, most of them probably developers?
I recall that updates are coming, 2.0 is only a couple months old right now.
if you always wait for the better/cheaper/shinier version, you should never buy, as it's always just on the horizon.
I don't think the argument was about waiting for product revision z, but waiting for product revision b, after all the bugs and mistakes in initial design assumptions are shaken out.
The most basic Google product is adwords. I can't believe how hard its been to use. I spent weeks in limbo with an ad they said would run, but didn't and I couldn't find anyone anywhere to tell me why it wasn't working. It required practically a revolt on their users forums before someone from Google noticed and fixed it. Not impressive.
you should have been on the other side. I know several folks were, just dollars away from their first check, banned from Adsense. bland form letter, no real explanation, no one to contact for details, no way to appeal etc. the only thing we could find in common was that they made that level really fast, like in the first month. it was like Google was worried that these folks would make some real money so out they had to go.
and i'll bet anything that the advertisers were still charged for the hits, making Google a nice bit of change they didn't have to share
Is this really bypassing the search engine? Using bookmarks might also be a way to bypass search, but really, once I know where a site is, I don't need to use Google for it, it a search wasn't needed for that use. Whether I use the NY Times app or their web site, I don't need Google's search to do that, either way, I already know where to find them. A search is only necessary to find new sources of information.
It is, because search doesn't depend on Google if you are looking for information the company can have the program provide, as many of the apps do.
But, in addition, even when the search engine is being used, the consumer only sees the found results presented directly in the program, and thus, never Googles search result pages. therefor, no paid Ads that Google can say was clicked to, and so they don't get paid.
You point out the NYTimes app, which I also use. Normally, you would be searching Google for those articles, and coming up with a lot of paid results on top, as well as those on the sidebar. Now, you go directly to the page. The same thing is true for the other news apps, the music apps, the movie apps, the restaurant apps, weather apps, etc. You never see Google.
You can find new information with the many apps that offer specialized searches on their own, as some of those I mentioned already.
If you don't know an article is in the NY TIMES, the WSJ, Bloomberg's, etc, you have to search Google for it, but not now. It's much easier to find this stuff on the apps rather than on the web sites, esp on such a small screen as phones offer. The web sites are very complex.
times have changed ole gtan poo bah
these days pro0ducts like the cracked screen PRE are rushed to market
making early buyers at great risk of being f..ed . the 3 rd cycle is 60 percent cheaper and works 3x better
in the past it was only S W that was a risk to use at the start ,
Most new products don't have major problems. It may seem that way because of the publicity they get, but it isn't true.
And we have two definitions of early adopter, or as some are calling it, first adopter.
Even first models are usually going to be good once some manufacturing teething problems are fixed. That usually takes a few weeks. After that, buying the first model usually carries little risk.
So those eager to get that first model usually need only to wait a short while to see if there are any show stoppers. Apple and Palm have fixed their early problems.
But those who wait for the second model are playing a fools game, because the second model can have the same defects as the first. It can have new defects, and you still need to wait a few weeks.
It solves nothing to wait for a second model unless the first lacks features you want, and feel that the second will have. But if it doesn't, and you get the next model anyway, you wasted a year. I took that chance with the iPhone, and I was lucky.
welcome back dude
great insight
you was sorley missed here
9
Thanks.
This paragraph is positively not true.
How do you know this? It's been said before by those in the industry.
And Apple does handle the warrantee themselves. Usually you must go though the phone company. I had plenty of hassles with that at Sprint.
Obviously you don't own a business. Trying to provide the type of customer service that e-commerce hounds have gotten used to is near impossible.
You, just like every other consumer out there, have been spoiled by this over-the-top customer service. To the point where you think its insulting when you have to go through a myriad of keypad navigation before getting to talk to someone. It doesn't matter that your issue is no more or less important than any of the other few million people who bought the same product and manage to use it without calling and screaming at a minimum wage employee. It doesn't matter that the purpose of Contact Us form is to provide a concise way (for the business) to organize and respond to issues.
None of that matters. What matters to you is that you want what you want right now, without any care on how its accomplished. Whether its your fault, or not your fault. Fix me fix me! Give me stuff because I had to wait 5 minutes for you to call me back! That's 5 minutes with my product that I can never get back!
Fact: If people weren't impatient, rude, and flat out stupid, retailers would not need babysitters as customer service reps, they could have a few well-trained individuals.
I've had two businesses. customer service is one of the most important areas of a company. The problem is that it usually is a loss for the company, a negative impact on the bottom line.
Many companies don't realize that poor customer service costs them customers. It costs them the most important customers, repeat customers, the ones who recommend you to others. The ones you can count on coming back time and again.
Poor customer service is equated with poor product quality, because the poor service makes the problem appear to be worse than it actually is. When you bring your machine to Apple's genius bar, you can usually get it repaired on the spot, and if not, they can take it in for you. That makes customers feel as though the company cares.
Who else does that? MS is supposedly trying in its new store, but we'll see how that goes.