So like when can I go from a weblink in a email and back again to my Mail without having to relaunch Mail and vice versa? Let's not BS what we mean by multitasking here.
Running MUZAK in the background is NOT what we're talking about.
Back to the multitasking question...It will be curious to see how the iPad handles iWork....Imagine you've just spent an hour writing a paper with the word processor and accidentally hit the home button. I can't imagine it would just loose your work. They'll have to address this issue...if not some kind of multitasking they'll need an auto save.
For all you haters out there be patient.... The Mac OS took ages to evolve (using OS 9 turned me off to Macs) I had no idea how much of a leap forwards OS X would be. To all the Android evangelists, as was said before, why are you wasting your breathe in an Apple forum? Just strange....
So like when can I go from a weblink in a email and back again to my Mail without having to relaunch Mail and vice versa? Let's not BS what we mean by multitasking here.
Running MUZAK in the background is NOT what we're talking about.
The last time I checked Mail and Safari do actually run in the background and multitask. You can open a link in Safari then go to read an email while waiting for the Safari page to load. Mail and Safari do multitask.
You seriously going to complain about OS X running slow on a PowerBook in 2010? Apple stopped making the PowerBook five years ago.
It is not about "slow" or "fast" but interrupts, priorities and scheduling.
I could be running on my REALLY old Sawtooth and if OSX has a proper interrupt and scheduler mechanism, I would IMMEDIATELY get my login screen, immediately minimise a window because the action would pre-empt whatever was slowing down the system.
It does not. OSX mechanisms appear to SUCK. It gets away with it for most people now because people have enough resources, cores, cycles to mask it. Its like an auto car stuck in second gear - fine if you have a big engine and a flat road.
Maybe the scheduler on the G4 now sucks because it is tuned for the Intel "and nobody gives a damn anymore". Maybe. Or maybe I have got used to the fact that OSX got faster and faster release after release but since Intel it has got slower and slower.
The last time I checked Mail and Safari do actually run in the background and multitask. You can open a link in Safari then go to read an email while waiting for the Safari page to load. Mail and Safari do multitask.
Then why must you relaunch the app? If I have to relaunch the app then how am I mutitasking?
Then why must you relaunch the app? If I have to relaunch the app then how am I mutitasking?
Who said you are relaunching the app? Just because Safari and Mail disappear from the display doesn't mean they are terminated. If you don't believe the apps are still running in the background then I suggest you download an app named iState from the App Store. It will show you that Safari and Mail are running in the background.
Angus. I know you like to show boat yourself since i've been dead, but lets put that aside for the moment.
Can you list any practical examples that would require multitasking rather than Apple allowing certain services to be called upon?
Ok, practical example from my day to day computing life:
What I'm running right now
Browser
bash
pidgin
itunes
email
calendar
audio recorder (I am at PyCon, after all)
I admit that my e-mail and calendar notifications can be a background task as already happens in the iPhone. iTunes as well could be backgrounded.
However, I *always* have at least a browser, a shell or two and one or more chat windows open if I'm sitting at my computer.
My use case for the iPad would be as follows:
Sitting at lunch or somewhere similar reading an e-book, reading blogs or other web sites, chatting on multiple jabber based networks, yahoo and AIM, listening to music.
That is a *minimum* that I need running, on screen or a single click away at all times. Show me an iPad or tablet device that can do that, for at least 2/3 the price of a nice laptop and you'll get my money.
Give me something in a tablet form that will run something akin to Lightroom or Aperture and I'll spend *more* than a laptop.
Who said you are relaunching the app? Just because Safari and Mail disappear from the display doesn't mean they are terminated. If you don't believe the apps are still running in the background then I suggest you download an app named iState from the App Store. It will show you that Safari and Mail are running in the background.
Do you understand the meaning of the prefix multi and the word tasking?
My clock runs in the background on my Mac but is that an app I am using?
Do you understand the meaning of the prefix multi and the word tasking?
How do you expect to work on two apps at the same time on a 3.5" display?
You said:
Quote:
So like when can I go from a weblink in a email and back again to my Mail without having to relaunch Mail and vice versa? Let's not BS what we mean by multitasking here.
And this is possible because Safari and Mail, unlike third party apps, never actually terminate and will keep working in the background. So stop going in circles.
Who said you are relaunching the app? Just because Safari and Mail disappear from the display doesn't mean they are terminated. If you don't believe the apps are still running in the background then I suggest you download an app named iState from the App Store. It will show you that Safari and Mail are running in the background.
He wants side-by-side apps on a 3.5" display so he knows it exists. I don't think he's gotten to the object permanence stage of his cognitive development.
I love that fact that my phone vibrates when i get new mail, and that it and Safari load in the background while I'm listening to the iPod app. All are less 2 seconds away with the touch of the home button and a signal tap on the icon.
PS: Remember when he threw a fit about how you couldn't possibly do simultaneous voice and data on the iPhone because the phone app takes up the whole screen?
He wants side-by-side apps on a 3.5" display so he knows it exists. I don't think he's gotten to the object permanence stage of his cognitive development.
I love that fact that my phone vibrates when i get new mail, and that it and Safari load in the background while I'm listening to the iPod app. All are less 2 seconds away with the touch of the home button and a signal tap on the icon.
Yeah. Based on his logic a multitasking smartphone does not exist since non can run two apps at the same time on the same display.
Quote:
PS: Remember when he threw a fit about how you couldn't possibly do simultaneous voice and data on the iPhone because the phone app takes up the whole screen?
Three things would create a better overall iPhone experience:
1. A central scheduling dispatch within the OS in charge of local notifications. Apps such as alarms and calendars schedule specific time based actions/notifications which should be independent of network availability. Relying on Push notifications for a calendar app (like Pocket Informant) could be risky business if you've got no coverage.
2. Allowing apps to retain the state (freeze) along with quick app switching. This would make copy/paste between something like a dictionary app and Safari or twitter much more convenient, a workspace of several commonly used apps evoked with gestures would improve the flow of interacting with the phone.
3. Finally, a better notification gui is a must. Currently notifications fly by one at a time; if you get a few plus a text in the lock screen, and all but the top notification is delivered (or seen). Then you're forced to hunt down the app with a badge on one of many home screens. The way Android and Palm WebOS handle notifications is much better. For one, with Android's notification shade, there is a) easy app switching b) history, which allows the user to singletask without fear that they will miss the multitude of notifications flying at them. WebOS's unobtrusive notifications which show like a stacked ticker at the bottom of the screen allow you to act on them (or not) without leaving your current task.
At the very least, Apple should implement smarter notifications for 4.0, and increase the multitasking abilities of important system apps (such as allowing instant responses to SMS messages without leaving the current app). Small tweaks could make a huge difference, and go a long way towards addressing current shortcomings. Apple did not anticipate the huge number of apps that would rely on its imperfect notification system, it's time to beef that up.
What happens when that background app is, say, a streaming app (a major reason people want background apps), and throttling it to only 10% CPU effectively makes it useless?
If a streaming background app uses more than 10% CPU it is useless, because it is inefficient.
The amount of data couldn't be that high, because it is at most at WiFi g speed and thats not to hard to handle, decompressing the audio (because video is kind of strange without viewing it) shouldn't be hard either. Unless it is done inefficiently.
So, I think 10% should be enough for audio streams, but hey its just a number, it could be 40%, it could even be a dynamic constraint, depending on the need of the 'essential processes' than run on the device (iPhone).
Quote:
Originally Posted by sippincider
, looking at history Steve seems to abhor multitasking as much as he abhors buttons.
Unless it becomes a major competitive issue, I wouldn't be too anxious to see background apps anytime soon.
You didn't look very well. You missed the NeXT part. And thats by the way the foundation of the iPhone OS.
Really? "You find". You don'T understand the OS, so what you find isn't what's there. you're the only one who seems to want us to believe this. Even those who prefer other phones wouldn't say such a thing.
[CENTER]Actually I'm not requesting that anyone do anything of the sort, as I was merely sating my opinion, not soliciting followers of said 'opinion'.
Three things would create a better overall iPhone experience:
1. A central scheduling dispatch within the OS in charge of local notifications. Apps such as alarms and calendars schedule specific time based actions/notifications which should be independent of network availability. Relying on Push notifications for a calendar app (like Pocket Informant) could be risky business if you've got no coverage.
2. Allowing apps to retain the state (freeze) along with quick app switching. This would make copy/paste between something like a dictionary app and Safari or twitter much more convenient, a workspace of several commonly used apps evoked with gestures would improve the flow of interacting with the phone.
3. Finally, a better notification gui is a must. Currently notifications fly by one at a time; if you get a few plus a text in the lock screen, and all but the top notification is delivered (or seen). Then you're forced to hunt down the app with a badge on one of many home screens. The way Android and Palm WebOS handle notifications is much better. For one, with Android's notification shade, there is a) easy app switching b) history, which allows the user to singletask without fear that they will miss the multitude of notifications flying at them. WebOS's unobtrusive notifications which show like a stacked ticker at the bottom of the screen allow you to act on them (or not) without leaving your current task.
At the very least, Apple should implement smarter notifications for 4.0, and increase the multitasking abilities of important system apps (such as allowing instant responses to SMS messages without leaving the current app). Small tweaks could make a huge difference, and go a long way towards addressing current shortcomings. Apple did not anticipate the huge number of apps that would rely on its imperfect notification system, it's time to beef that up.
Great points! Would love to see those updates in V.4
Comments
and
http://www.osnews.com/story/22723/Ph...Android_Market
This is not a virus or trojan.
Running MUZAK in the background is NOT what we're talking about.
Back to the multitasking question...It will be curious to see how the iPad handles iWork....Imagine you've just spent an hour writing a paper with the word processor and accidentally hit the home button. I can't imagine it would just loose your work. They'll have to address this issue...if not some kind of multitasking they'll need an auto save.
For all you haters out there be patient.... The Mac OS took ages to evolve (using OS 9 turned me off to Macs) I had no idea how much of a leap forwards OS X would be. To all the Android evangelists, as was said before, why are you wasting your breathe in an Apple forum? Just strange....
To all the Android evangelists, as was said before, why are you wasting your breathe in an Apple forum? Just strange....
I didn't know that Apple just sells phones
Users don't actually care about multitasking. We'll see just how much they don't once the iPad ships.
Right- just like users never cared about MMS either until Apple enabled it on the iPhone in 2009.
So like when can I go from a weblink in a email and back again to my Mail without having to relaunch Mail and vice versa? Let's not BS what we mean by multitasking here.
Running MUZAK in the background is NOT what we're talking about.
The last time I checked Mail and Safari do actually run in the background and multitask. You can open a link in Safari then go to read an email while waiting for the Safari page to load. Mail and Safari do multitask.
You seriously going to complain about OS X running slow on a PowerBook in 2010? Apple stopped making the PowerBook five years ago.
It is not about "slow" or "fast" but interrupts, priorities and scheduling.
I could be running on my REALLY old Sawtooth and if OSX has a proper interrupt and scheduler mechanism, I would IMMEDIATELY get my login screen, immediately minimise a window because the action would pre-empt whatever was slowing down the system.
It does not. OSX mechanisms appear to SUCK. It gets away with it for most people now because people have enough resources, cores, cycles to mask it. Its like an auto car stuck in second gear - fine if you have a big engine and a flat road.
Maybe the scheduler on the G4 now sucks because it is tuned for the Intel "and nobody gives a damn anymore". Maybe. Or maybe I have got used to the fact that OSX got faster and faster release after release but since Intel it has got slower and slower.
The last time I checked Mail and Safari do actually run in the background and multitask. You can open a link in Safari then go to read an email while waiting for the Safari page to load. Mail and Safari do multitask.
Then why must you relaunch the app? If I have to relaunch the app then how am I mutitasking?
Then why must you relaunch the app? If I have to relaunch the app then how am I mutitasking?
Who said you are relaunching the app? Just because Safari and Mail disappear from the display doesn't mean they are terminated. If you don't believe the apps are still running in the background then I suggest you download an app named iState from the App Store. It will show you that Safari and Mail are running in the background.
Angus. I know you like to show boat yourself since i've been dead, but lets put that aside for the moment.
Can you list any practical examples that would require multitasking rather than Apple allowing certain services to be called upon?
Ok, practical example from my day to day computing life:
What I'm running right now
- Browser
- bash
- pidgin
- itunes
- email
- calendar
- audio recorder (I am at PyCon, after all)
I admit that my e-mail and calendar notifications can be a background task as already happens in the iPhone. iTunes as well could be backgrounded.However, I *always* have at least a browser, a shell or two and one or more chat windows open if I'm sitting at my computer.
My use case for the iPad would be as follows:
Sitting at lunch or somewhere similar reading an e-book, reading blogs or other web sites, chatting on multiple jabber based networks, yahoo and AIM, listening to music.
That is a *minimum* that I need running, on screen or a single click away at all times. Show me an iPad or tablet device that can do that, for at least 2/3 the price of a nice laptop and you'll get my money.
Give me something in a tablet form that will run something akin to Lightroom or Aperture and I'll spend *more* than a laptop.
Scott
Who said you are relaunching the app? Just because Safari and Mail disappear from the display doesn't mean they are terminated. If you don't believe the apps are still running in the background then I suggest you download an app named iState from the App Store. It will show you that Safari and Mail are running in the background.
Do you understand the meaning of the prefix multi and the word tasking?
My clock runs in the background on my Mac but is that an app I am using?
Do you understand the meaning of the prefix multi and the word tasking?
How do you expect to work on two apps at the same time on a 3.5" display?
You said:
So like when can I go from a weblink in a email and back again to my Mail without having to relaunch Mail and vice versa? Let's not BS what we mean by multitasking here.
And this is possible because Safari and Mail, unlike third party apps, never actually terminate and will keep working in the background. So stop going in circles.
Who said you are relaunching the app? Just because Safari and Mail disappear from the display doesn't mean they are terminated. If you don't believe the apps are still running in the background then I suggest you download an app named iState from the App Store. It will show you that Safari and Mail are running in the background.
He wants side-by-side apps on a 3.5" display so he knows it exists. I don't think he's gotten to the object permanence stage of his cognitive development.
I love that fact that my phone vibrates when i get new mail, and that it and Safari load in the background while I'm listening to the iPod app. All are less 2 seconds away with the touch of the home button and a signal tap on the icon.
PS: Remember when he threw a fit about how you couldn't possibly do simultaneous voice and data on the iPhone because the phone app takes up the whole screen?
He wants side-by-side apps on a 3.5" display so he knows it exists. I don't think he's gotten to the object permanence stage of his cognitive development.
I love that fact that my phone vibrates when i get new mail, and that it and Safari load in the background while I'm listening to the iPod app. All are less 2 seconds away with the touch of the home button and a signal tap on the icon.
Yeah. Based on his logic a multitasking smartphone does not exist since non can run two apps at the same time on the same display.
PS: Remember when he threw a fit about how you couldn't possibly do simultaneous voice and data on the iPhone because the phone app takes up the whole screen?
LOL
1. A central scheduling dispatch within the OS in charge of local notifications. Apps such as alarms and calendars schedule specific time based actions/notifications which should be independent of network availability. Relying on Push notifications for a calendar app (like Pocket Informant) could be risky business if you've got no coverage.
2. Allowing apps to retain the state (freeze) along with quick app switching. This would make copy/paste between something like a dictionary app and Safari or twitter much more convenient, a workspace of several commonly used apps evoked with gestures would improve the flow of interacting with the phone.
3. Finally, a better notification gui is a must. Currently notifications fly by one at a time; if you get a few plus a text in the lock screen, and all but the top notification is delivered (or seen). Then you're forced to hunt down the app with a badge on one of many home screens. The way Android and Palm WebOS handle notifications is much better. For one, with Android's notification shade, there is a) easy app switching b) history, which allows the user to singletask without fear that they will miss the multitude of notifications flying at them. WebOS's unobtrusive notifications which show like a stacked ticker at the bottom of the screen allow you to act on them (or not) without leaving your current task.
At the very least, Apple should implement smarter notifications for 4.0, and increase the multitasking abilities of important system apps (such as allowing instant responses to SMS messages without leaving the current app). Small tweaks could make a huge difference, and go a long way towards addressing current shortcomings. Apple did not anticipate the huge number of apps that would rely on its imperfect notification system, it's time to beef that up.
What happens when that background app is, say, a streaming app (a major reason people want background apps), and throttling it to only 10% CPU effectively makes it useless?
If a streaming background app uses more than 10% CPU it is useless, because it is inefficient.
The amount of data couldn't be that high, because it is at most at WiFi g speed and thats not to hard to handle, decompressing the audio (because video is kind of strange without viewing it) shouldn't be hard either. Unless it is done inefficiently.
So, I think 10% should be enough for audio streams, but hey its just a number, it could be 40%, it could even be a dynamic constraint, depending on the need of the 'essential processes' than run on the device (iPhone).
, looking at history Steve seems to abhor multitasking as much as he abhors buttons.
Unless it becomes a major competitive issue, I wouldn't be too anxious to see background apps anytime soon.
You didn't look very well. You missed the NeXT part. And thats by the way the foundation of the iPhone OS.
J.
Really? "You find". You don'T understand the OS, so what you find isn't what's there. you're the only one who seems to want us to believe this. Even those who prefer other phones wouldn't say such a thing.
[CENTER]Actually I'm not requesting that anyone do anything of the sort, as I was merely sating my opinion, not soliciting followers of said 'opinion'.
[/CENTER]
Three things would create a better overall iPhone experience:
1. A central scheduling dispatch within the OS in charge of local notifications. Apps such as alarms and calendars schedule specific time based actions/notifications which should be independent of network availability. Relying on Push notifications for a calendar app (like Pocket Informant) could be risky business if you've got no coverage.
2. Allowing apps to retain the state (freeze) along with quick app switching. This would make copy/paste between something like a dictionary app and Safari or twitter much more convenient, a workspace of several commonly used apps evoked with gestures would improve the flow of interacting with the phone.
3. Finally, a better notification gui is a must. Currently notifications fly by one at a time; if you get a few plus a text in the lock screen, and all but the top notification is delivered (or seen). Then you're forced to hunt down the app with a badge on one of many home screens. The way Android and Palm WebOS handle notifications is much better. For one, with Android's notification shade, there is a) easy app switching b) history, which allows the user to singletask without fear that they will miss the multitude of notifications flying at them. WebOS's unobtrusive notifications which show like a stacked ticker at the bottom of the screen allow you to act on them (or not) without leaving your current task.
At the very least, Apple should implement smarter notifications for 4.0, and increase the multitasking abilities of important system apps (such as allowing instant responses to SMS messages without leaving the current app). Small tweaks could make a huge difference, and go a long way towards addressing current shortcomings. Apple did not anticipate the huge number of apps that would rely on its imperfect notification system, it's time to beef that up.
Great points! Would love to see those updates in V.4
Notifications, Notifications, Notifications
[...]
Just discussing that on another thread. The image is hyperlinked to the article...