There are thousands of bookstores that choose not to sell porn (or erotic) magazines.
Why shouldn't apple have this choice?
Because the public can choose their bookstores but if they want apps on their iPhone, they only have one choice.
I don't have any "adult" apps on my phone, nor would I ever, but it doesn't make any sense to me to block anything based on a subjective opinion on what should be allowed, based on personal tastes or "values" of a certain group. I would react similarly if Apple decided that since most of the current popular music is crap, they shouldn't sell it on iTunes.
Apple is free to do as it wishes, but it SHOULD NOT be doing this. It SHOULD be categorizing these apps differently, so only the people who want them, will find them.
I agree, if you read my earlier posts, that Apple has a wonderful opportunity to provide clean, safe, ADULT viewing material for the law abiding public at large with a separate (age verified) Adult App Store section and make a bundle of cash doing so in the process.
I was thinking in the post you quoted why Apple doesn't do this, and it's because it might be a image problem for Apple. But then cable companies have no problem having porn channels and the iPhone can get porn images over the web browser.
I love how there are so many idiots out there who love to throw up the "censorship" flag and "free speech" argument.
APPLE IS A CORPORATION...THEY ARE NOT THE GOVERNMENT.
They have every right to determine what they feel is appropriate content for their store. It is not YOUR RIGHT to access certain content wherever you want. It just isn't. Part of the free economy is that corporations have the RIGHT to determine what to sell and what not to sell. If you don't like it, buy something different. Buy a different phone that you can access all of the porn you would like. Simple.
Censorship is a problem when it is managed by the government, not private corporations. That is when your rights are being infringed.
YOUR RIGHTS ARE NOT BEING TAKEN AWAY. You have NO RIGHT to define what a corporation sells. You have a RIGHT to buy from a different corporation. That's it.
And please stop complaining about sensitive Americans. If you feel that way, then stop buying American products. Another simple solution. Get over yourselves. You don't have all of the answers. In fact, I'm pretty sure the United States exists because there were lots of people who hated Europe. Interesting...
Because the public can choose their bookstores but if they want apps on their iPhone, they only have one choice.
I don't have any "adult" apps on my phone, nor would I ever, but it doesn't make any sense to me to block anything based on a subjective opinion on what should be allowed, based on personal tastes or "values" of a certain group. I would react similarly if Apple decided that since most of the current popular music is crap, they shouldn't sell it on iTunes.
But the umbilical cord between iphone and the app store is plainly in view, and you bought the iphone anyway. How is it censorship if a writer decides not to use swear words in his novels? you can buy other novels, but none by that writer that have swear words. You can buy other phones that let you install what ever you want, but none by Apple.
Apple is censoring Apple not you. In no way have they restricted your actions (although it may at first appear that way), rather they have restricted their actions (they will not trade in "overtly sexual" apps). You are free to trade in them, just not with or through Apple.
I love how there are so many idiots out there who love to throw up the "censorship" flag and "free speech" argument.
APPLE IS A CORPORATION...THEY ARE NOT THE GOVERNMENT.
They have every right to determine what they feel is appropriate content for their store. It is not YOUR RIGHT to access certain content wherever you want. It just isn't. Part of the free economy is that corporations have the RIGHT to determine what to sell and what not to sell. If you don't like it, buy something different. Buy a different phone that you can access all of the porn you would like. Simple.
Censorship is a problem when it is managed by the government, not private corporations. That is when your rights are being infringed.
YOUR RIGHTS ARE NOT BEING TAKEN AWAY. You have NO RIGHT to define what a corporation sells. You have a RIGHT to buy from a different corporation. That's it.
And please stop complaining about sensitive Americans. If you feel that way, then stop buying American products. Another simple solution. Get over yourselves. You don't have all of the answers. In fact, I'm pretty sure the United States exists because there were lots of people who hated Europe. Interesting...
Do you think you managed to get through to those that always see things from one-inch behind their nose? Good luck.
Yes, but somewhere in that neighborhood is a restaurant that serves nachos because a lot of people want and pay good money for them.
The App Store is a neighborhood with no nacho serving restaurants because a few intolerant people complained they don't like nachos.
What Apple should so is allow the nacho serving restaurants and tell the minority complainers to stay out of that part of the neighborhood where they are located.
People telling Apple what they should be selling is far stupider than Apple deciding what to sell.
Stay on topic, please. Do not turn this into a debate regarding the severity of child pornography in the world. You're barking up the law of percentages and its purely argumentative.
Do not force me to start sending you articles about the government-run child slavery rings occurring all over the world....slightly more severe problem.
I agree, bringing illegal child porn into a topic about having legal adult content on the App Store is totally unrelated.
Everyone here (I hope) is against that sort of material and the harming of children, no need to derail the thread.
What we need is a safe avenue for viewing legal Adult material without the hassles and risks of surfing for it online.
Apple has a App Store that polices apps and content, which would make a excellent way to distribute legal material to a hungry audience for law abiding adult content producers and consumers.
I can't put it any simpler than this: Your "decency" is not someone else's "decency." Likewise, Apple's "decency" is not everyone else's "decency." There is no "general decency." People differ. To some, a work may be porn; to others, a work of art; to others, simply uninteresting. My position is simply that the consumer should be the one to make the determination. Not the vendor of the media or the item.
You are wrong. Plain and simple. You are making the determination. You don't have to own an iPhone/iPod Touch. Simple. The vendor ABSOLUTELY has the right to determine what it wants to sell whether you can purchase the content somewhere else or not.
Do some basic studies about economics and American economics specifically, then come back and review your post.
Your right is to choose to purchase a product or not to purchase a product. That's it. Just get a different phone/media device and stop whining like a 2-year-old.
Stay on topic, please. Do not turn this into a debate regarding the severity of child pornography in the world. You're barking up the law of percentages and its purely argumentative.
Do not force me to start sending you articles about the government-run child slavery rings occurring all over the world....slightly more severe problem.
Then report me. I'll abide by the moderator's decision.
You are wrong. Plain and simple. You are making the determination. You don't have to own an iPhone/iPod Touch. Simple. The vendor ABSOLUTELY has the right to determine what it wants to sell whether you can purchase the content somewhere else or not.
Do some basic studies about economics and American economics specifically, then come back and review your post.
Your right is to choose to purchase a product or not to purchase a product. That's it. Just get a different phone/media device and stop whining like a 2-year-old.
But people also had the right to buy a product other than Windows when Microsoft decided to push people towards Internet Explorer and to destroy Netscape, yet Microsoft was eventually found to have broken the law.
There is a point when a product becomes so dominant that they do have to be held to account.
I'm not sure Apple is there at the moment, but at what point would they be putting the peddlers of porn at a competitive disadvantage because their product is not available on the iPad/iPhone?
Because the public can choose their bookstores but if they want apps on their iPhone, they only have one choice.
Another book analogy, that I've used here before:
Let's say you buy a bookshelf from me. Fair enough. Now, as part of the deal you can only populate that bookshelf with books approved by & purchased though me. WTF?
NOW, I come along and say that books you've purchased before are now "inappropriate", and you can no longer get books like those. Double WTF!
If I were the owner, I'd be ready to pitch the damn bookshelf for one that didn't come with such a controlling agreement.
I understand this is about the image, brand, and reputation of the App Store, which Apple has every right to maintain and defend. BUT when the App Store is the only legal source of iPhone apps, why should my choices be censored by Apple's interests?
So, they ban this but highlight the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit app. Yeah, no mixed messages there. I mean, what could be overtly sexual about naked women body-painted?
I don't care for either app, or care what Apple's policies are on sexual content. But I can see why it drives developers nuts trying to figure out if Apple actually has any policies--or is just flying by the seat of its pants.
To link the consumption of adult entertainment to sexual predation would be just plain stupid.
Billions of dollars a year in marketing of all kinds of products tells me what you see does produce a change in behavior. To not link pornography and increased sexual deviance is an unfortunately all too common mistake, but a necessary one to justify the argument for immoral content. I respect people and their opinions, but you make a statement with nothing but emotion to back it up. I simply present evidence to the contrary.
That said, everyone should realize that Apple is first and always a business. I've no doubt the decision was much more likely a PR and image one than a moral one. It'd be nice if businesses just did the right thing for it's own sake, but even Apple's 'green' push goes a long way to making them more marketable and profitable. It's basic economics.
I'm not saying child pornography doesn't happen. I'm saying it is too much to say that any sexual content will lead to child pornography. Even the current (already very limited) "sexual" content of the App Store has nothing to do with that.
Apple can do what it wants, but it if wants to be a mainstream content provider, they shouldn't limit themselves this way. There's nothing wrong with erotism and sexuality, and to say the opposite is what I call american sensitivity. It seems Apple is being forced to stay out of that big market because of that moralism. If they just decided to allow it and make a mature section of the iStore we would even get much better content than the iBoobs we have today.
But the umbilical cord between iphone and the app store is plainly in view, and you bought the iphone anyway. How is it censorship if a writer decides not to use swear words in his novels? you can buy other novels, but none by that writer that have swear words. You can buy other phones that let you install what ever you want, but none by Apple.
Apple is censoring Apple not you. In no way have they restricted your actions (although it may at first appear that way), rather they have restricted their actions (they will not trade in "overtly sexual" apps). You are free to trade in them, just not with or through Apple.
I never called it censorship, but I do think it's a dumb decision. I think businesses in general should cater to the largest market possible, and a lot of poeple here have already suggested better ways that Apple could have handled this issue. Plus, like some other people here, I think the puritanical thing is pretty pathetic and hypocritical--and this comes from a guy who was brought up in a very old fashioned family whose ancestors came over on the Mayflower!
I am an iPhone owner, but the only way this decision impacts me personally is that a good chunk of my savings is in Apple stock. Sure, I could sell it and try to buy stock in a company that's just as good in every way except that I agree with their decisions 100% of the time instead of 98%, but I don't think that's all that easy.
But imagine for a moment that you already own an iPhone, as quite a few people do. When you bought it, one of the selling points might have been, "Cool, I can download raunchy apps and check them out on the long train ride home." One might argue that one of the "features" of the product you purchased has been removed without your permission. Sure, people here might offer the helpful advice of buying an Android phone, but that might be too expensive for some, and the Android phone might not be as good for other reasons. It's not much of a solution to the problem. When you buy the phone, if you're well informed you know that Apple has control over the content on the App Store, but there's a certain degree of trust involved; they could probably completely stop selling apps altogether and it would be within their legal rights, but I'm sure there would be a number of disgruntled comments in this forum and others.
I don't see how the iPhone owner is still free to trade in "overtly sexual" apps without jailbreaking or buying another phone.
I understand Porn is such a necessity to humanity, but does it has to be on every electronic device out there? I think its a good idea to remove it from App Store. If people are that desperate to watch it then there are other means to do so. Maybe they can get an Android or something.
They have every right to determine what they feel is appropriate content for their store.
Absolutely true, but not quite that simple.
There are precedents for certain classes of carriers to be excused from violations because they are "common carriers". For example, the phone company is not an accessory to terrorism because their lines are used to plan crimes; they are a common carrier. The municipal bus company is not an accesory to robbery because they provided a getaway vehicle to the theif; they are a common carrier.
So too, websites are not responsible for content if they let anything and everything be put up there (with certain exceptions). But if they pick and choose, and choose to publish libel, the situation is different.
If Apple is picking and choosing the apps that are allowed to be on the iSore, then they might be deemed responsible for them. I am not aware of anything directly on point at this time, but the law evolves.
In other contexts, Apple could run afoul of existing laws, if, for example, they had a policy of not selling apps created by protected minorities.
So in general, yes, Apple is free to sell or not sell apps they don't like. But there are many exceptions to the general rule, and IMO, Apple should tread carefully.
If I were the owner, I'd be ready to pitch the damn bookshelf for one that didn't come with such a controlling agreement.
Yep. Me too.
And ATT will be selling Android phones very soon. I have dust under the screen of my iPhone. As soon as ATT gets an Android phone that I would like to own, I'll get a Genius to give me a new refurb, and sell it on eBay.
I think it's very simple, anyone searching for the new iBooks for the iPad would have iBoobs returned in their search list. This must have really been a concern. So, until they can fix the searching engine to filter out all that nasty stuff, they will most likely just cut it out altogether.
I for one don't mind keeping my iPods, iPhone and iPads porn-free, my kids are always playing around with these devices and it's good to know that it's a safe place for them.
If Apple allowed adult content, that would be the number one selling category in no time and change the way people view these devices and Apple.
I don't think it's Nazi-ism to disallow this content. Nazi-ism was all about genocide, fascism and a master race of Aryan overloads. People who throw that term about willi-nilli are idiots.
Comments
There are thousands of bookstores that choose not to sell porn (or erotic) magazines.
Why shouldn't apple have this choice?
Because the public can choose their bookstores but if they want apps on their iPhone, they only have one choice.
I don't have any "adult" apps on my phone, nor would I ever, but it doesn't make any sense to me to block anything based on a subjective opinion on what should be allowed, based on personal tastes or "values" of a certain group. I would react similarly if Apple decided that since most of the current popular music is crap, they shouldn't sell it on iTunes.
Apple is free to do as it wishes, but it SHOULD NOT be doing this. It SHOULD be categorizing these apps differently, so only the people who want them, will find them.
I agree, if you read my earlier posts, that Apple has a wonderful opportunity to provide clean, safe, ADULT viewing material for the law abiding public at large with a separate (age verified) Adult App Store section and make a bundle of cash doing so in the process.
I was thinking in the post you quoted why Apple doesn't do this, and it's because it might be a image problem for Apple. But then cable companies have no problem having porn channels and the iPhone can get porn images over the web browser.
So what really is the problem right?
APPLE IS A CORPORATION...THEY ARE NOT THE GOVERNMENT.
They have every right to determine what they feel is appropriate content for their store. It is not YOUR RIGHT to access certain content wherever you want. It just isn't. Part of the free economy is that corporations have the RIGHT to determine what to sell and what not to sell. If you don't like it, buy something different. Buy a different phone that you can access all of the porn you would like. Simple.
Censorship is a problem when it is managed by the government, not private corporations. That is when your rights are being infringed.
YOUR RIGHTS ARE NOT BEING TAKEN AWAY. You have NO RIGHT to define what a corporation sells. You have a RIGHT to buy from a different corporation. That's it.
And please stop complaining about sensitive Americans. If you feel that way, then stop buying American products. Another simple solution. Get over yourselves. You don't have all of the answers. In fact, I'm pretty sure the United States exists because there were lots of people who hated Europe. Interesting...
Because the public can choose their bookstores but if they want apps on their iPhone, they only have one choice.
I don't have any "adult" apps on my phone, nor would I ever, but it doesn't make any sense to me to block anything based on a subjective opinion on what should be allowed, based on personal tastes or "values" of a certain group. I would react similarly if Apple decided that since most of the current popular music is crap, they shouldn't sell it on iTunes.
But the umbilical cord between iphone and the app store is plainly in view, and you bought the iphone anyway. How is it censorship if a writer decides not to use swear words in his novels? you can buy other novels, but none by that writer that have swear words. You can buy other phones that let you install what ever you want, but none by Apple.
Apple is censoring Apple not you. In no way have they restricted your actions (although it may at first appear that way), rather they have restricted their actions (they will not trade in "overtly sexual" apps). You are free to trade in them, just not with or through Apple.
I love how there are so many idiots out there who love to throw up the "censorship" flag and "free speech" argument.
APPLE IS A CORPORATION...THEY ARE NOT THE GOVERNMENT.
They have every right to determine what they feel is appropriate content for their store. It is not YOUR RIGHT to access certain content wherever you want. It just isn't. Part of the free economy is that corporations have the RIGHT to determine what to sell and what not to sell. If you don't like it, buy something different. Buy a different phone that you can access all of the porn you would like. Simple.
Censorship is a problem when it is managed by the government, not private corporations. That is when your rights are being infringed.
YOUR RIGHTS ARE NOT BEING TAKEN AWAY. You have NO RIGHT to define what a corporation sells. You have a RIGHT to buy from a different corporation. That's it.
And please stop complaining about sensitive Americans. If you feel that way, then stop buying American products. Another simple solution. Get over yourselves. You don't have all of the answers. In fact, I'm pretty sure the United States exists because there were lots of people who hated Europe. Interesting...
Do you think you managed to get through to those that always see things from one-inch behind their nose? Good luck.
Yes, but somewhere in that neighborhood is a restaurant that serves nachos because a lot of people want and pay good money for them.
The App Store is a neighborhood with no nacho serving restaurants because a few intolerant people complained they don't like nachos.
What Apple should so is allow the nacho serving restaurants and tell the minority complainers to stay out of that part of the neighborhood where they are located.
People telling Apple what they should be selling is far stupider than Apple deciding what to sell.
Stay on topic, please. Do not turn this into a debate regarding the severity of child pornography in the world. You're barking up the law of percentages and its purely argumentative.
Do not force me to start sending you articles about the government-run child slavery rings occurring all over the world....slightly more severe problem.
I agree, bringing illegal child porn into a topic about having legal adult content on the App Store is totally unrelated.
Everyone here (I hope) is against that sort of material and the harming of children, no need to derail the thread.
What we need is a safe avenue for viewing legal Adult material without the hassles and risks of surfing for it online.
Apple has a App Store that polices apps and content, which would make a excellent way to distribute legal material to a hungry audience for law abiding adult content producers and consumers.
But most businesses and all of government will fire you if you get caught surfing porn on their systems.
You probably get in trouble at schools as well.
Absolutely, and which gets to my point: It's a matter of making responsible choices.
It will be interesting to see how Apple navigates this.
I can't put it any simpler than this: Your "decency" is not someone else's "decency." Likewise, Apple's "decency" is not everyone else's "decency." There is no "general decency." People differ. To some, a work may be porn; to others, a work of art; to others, simply uninteresting. My position is simply that the consumer should be the one to make the determination. Not the vendor of the media or the item.
You are wrong. Plain and simple. You are making the determination. You don't have to own an iPhone/iPod Touch. Simple. The vendor ABSOLUTELY has the right to determine what it wants to sell whether you can purchase the content somewhere else or not.
Do some basic studies about economics and American economics specifically, then come back and review your post.
Your right is to choose to purchase a product or not to purchase a product. That's it. Just get a different phone/media device and stop whining like a 2-year-old.
Stay on topic, please. Do not turn this into a debate regarding the severity of child pornography in the world. You're barking up the law of percentages and its purely argumentative.
Do not force me to start sending you articles about the government-run child slavery rings occurring all over the world....slightly more severe problem.
Then report me. I'll abide by the moderator's decision.
You are wrong. Plain and simple. You are making the determination. You don't have to own an iPhone/iPod Touch. Simple. The vendor ABSOLUTELY has the right to determine what it wants to sell whether you can purchase the content somewhere else or not.
Do some basic studies about economics and American economics specifically, then come back and review your post.
Your right is to choose to purchase a product or not to purchase a product. That's it. Just get a different phone/media device and stop whining like a 2-year-old.
But people also had the right to buy a product other than Windows when Microsoft decided to push people towards Internet Explorer and to destroy Netscape, yet Microsoft was eventually found to have broken the law.
There is a point when a product becomes so dominant that they do have to be held to account.
I'm not sure Apple is there at the moment, but at what point would they be putting the peddlers of porn at a competitive disadvantage because their product is not available on the iPad/iPhone?
Because the public can choose their bookstores but if they want apps on their iPhone, they only have one choice.
Another book analogy, that I've used here before:
Let's say you buy a bookshelf from me. Fair enough. Now, as part of the deal you can only populate that bookshelf with books approved by & purchased though me. WTF?
NOW, I come along and say that books you've purchased before are now "inappropriate", and you can no longer get books like those. Double WTF!
If I were the owner, I'd be ready to pitch the damn bookshelf for one that didn't come with such a controlling agreement.
I understand this is about the image, brand, and reputation of the App Store, which Apple has every right to maintain and defend. BUT when the App Store is the only legal source of iPhone apps, why should my choices be censored by Apple's interests?
I don't care for either app, or care what Apple's policies are on sexual content. But I can see why it drives developers nuts trying to figure out if Apple actually has any policies--or is just flying by the seat of its pants.
To link the consumption of adult entertainment to sexual predation would be just plain stupid.
Billions of dollars a year in marketing of all kinds of products tells me what you see does produce a change in behavior. To not link pornography and increased sexual deviance is an unfortunately all too common mistake, but a necessary one to justify the argument for immoral content. I respect people and their opinions, but you make a statement with nothing but emotion to back it up. I simply present evidence to the contrary.
That said, everyone should realize that Apple is first and always a business. I've no doubt the decision was much more likely a PR and image one than a moral one. It'd be nice if businesses just did the right thing for it's own sake, but even Apple's 'green' push goes a long way to making them more marketable and profitable. It's basic economics.
And you think that it only happens in the US?Even in Brazil
I'm not saying child pornography doesn't happen. I'm saying it is too much to say that any sexual content will lead to child pornography. Even the current (already very limited) "sexual" content of the App Store has nothing to do with that.
Apple can do what it wants, but it if wants to be a mainstream content provider, they shouldn't limit themselves this way. There's nothing wrong with erotism and sexuality, and to say the opposite is what I call american sensitivity. It seems Apple is being forced to stay out of that big market because of that moralism. If they just decided to allow it and make a mature section of the iStore we would even get much better content than the iBoobs we have today.
But the umbilical cord between iphone and the app store is plainly in view, and you bought the iphone anyway. How is it censorship if a writer decides not to use swear words in his novels? you can buy other novels, but none by that writer that have swear words. You can buy other phones that let you install what ever you want, but none by Apple.
Apple is censoring Apple not you. In no way have they restricted your actions (although it may at first appear that way), rather they have restricted their actions (they will not trade in "overtly sexual" apps). You are free to trade in them, just not with or through Apple.
I never called it censorship, but I do think it's a dumb decision. I think businesses in general should cater to the largest market possible, and a lot of poeple here have already suggested better ways that Apple could have handled this issue. Plus, like some other people here, I think the puritanical thing is pretty pathetic and hypocritical--and this comes from a guy who was brought up in a very old fashioned family whose ancestors came over on the Mayflower!
I am an iPhone owner, but the only way this decision impacts me personally is that a good chunk of my savings is in Apple stock. Sure, I could sell it and try to buy stock in a company that's just as good in every way except that I agree with their decisions 100% of the time instead of 98%, but I don't think that's all that easy.
But imagine for a moment that you already own an iPhone, as quite a few people do. When you bought it, one of the selling points might have been, "Cool, I can download raunchy apps and check them out on the long train ride home." One might argue that one of the "features" of the product you purchased has been removed without your permission. Sure, people here might offer the helpful advice of buying an Android phone, but that might be too expensive for some, and the Android phone might not be as good for other reasons. It's not much of a solution to the problem. When you buy the phone, if you're well informed you know that Apple has control over the content on the App Store, but there's a certain degree of trust involved; they could probably completely stop selling apps altogether and it would be within their legal rights, but I'm sure there would be a number of disgruntled comments in this forum and others.
I don't see how the iPhone owner is still free to trade in "overtly sexual" apps without jailbreaking or buying another phone.
They have every right to determine what they feel is appropriate content for their store.
Absolutely true, but not quite that simple.
There are precedents for certain classes of carriers to be excused from violations because they are "common carriers". For example, the phone company is not an accessory to terrorism because their lines are used to plan crimes; they are a common carrier. The municipal bus company is not an accesory to robbery because they provided a getaway vehicle to the theif; they are a common carrier.
So too, websites are not responsible for content if they let anything and everything be put up there (with certain exceptions). But if they pick and choose, and choose to publish libel, the situation is different.
If Apple is picking and choosing the apps that are allowed to be on the iSore, then they might be deemed responsible for them. I am not aware of anything directly on point at this time, but the law evolves.
In other contexts, Apple could run afoul of existing laws, if, for example, they had a policy of not selling apps created by protected minorities.
So in general, yes, Apple is free to sell or not sell apps they don't like. But there are many exceptions to the general rule, and IMO, Apple should tread carefully.
If I were the owner, I'd be ready to pitch the damn bookshelf for one that didn't come with such a controlling agreement.
Yep. Me too.
And ATT will be selling Android phones very soon. I have dust under the screen of my iPhone. As soon as ATT gets an Android phone that I would like to own, I'll get a Genius to give me a new refurb, and sell it on eBay.
I for one don't mind keeping my iPods, iPhone and iPads porn-free, my kids are always playing around with these devices and it's good to know that it's a safe place for them.
If Apple allowed adult content, that would be the number one selling category in no time and change the way people view these devices and Apple.
I don't think it's Nazi-ism to disallow this content. Nazi-ism was all about genocide, fascism and a master race of Aryan overloads. People who throw that term about willi-nilli are idiots.