5 Reasons not to get an ipad...

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  • Reply 61 of 94
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    It sounds like some people expected fonts to be automatically copied from their Macs to their iPads -- because, you know, that's how it has always worked. Not! It doesn't sound so much like a "killer" as the unrealistic expectation that the iPad would do something no other computer does.



    For the record, I was probably the first person around here to ask questions about font management on the iPad. I'd like to be able to add the ones I use in my documents. But I'd never delude myself into thinking that this would somehow occur magically or automatically.
  • Reply 62 of 94
    dfilerdfiler Posts: 3,420member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    Just say no to quoting back long, hostile rants.



    Isn't that the whole point of this thread?
  • Reply 63 of 94
    dfilerdfiler Posts: 3,420member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    It sounds like some people expected fonts to be automatically copied from their Macs to their iPads -- because, you know, that's how it has always worked. Not! It doesn't sound so much like a "killer" as the unrealistic expectation that the iPad would do something no other computer does.



    For the record, I was probably the first person around here to ask questions about font management on the iPad. I'd like to be able to add the ones I use in my documents. But I'd never delude myself into thinking that this would somehow occur magically or automatically.



    An interesting conundrum!



    I wonder how font licensing is going to work on all these not-quite-full-blown-computers that the iPad seems to be the harbinger of. It may not seem like a big deal, but fonts really are ludicrously expensive. Until now, these auxiliary devices haven't really had authoring capabilities. Now that they do... just how devices does linotype expect us to license each font for? If everyone starts owning a half dozen authoring capable devices, font pricing and/or licensing will certainly have to change.
  • Reply 64 of 94
    samabsamab Posts: 1,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    It sounds like some people expected fonts to be automatically copied from their Macs to their iPads -- because, you know, that's how it has always worked. Not! It doesn't sound so much like a "killer" as the unrealistic expectation that the iPad would do something no other computer does.



    For the record, I was probably the first person around here to ask questions about font management on the iPad. I'd like to be able to add the ones I use in my documents. But I'd never delude myself into thinking that this would somehow occur magically or automatically.



    It's a lot more than just fonts --- your footnotes and endnotes are gone, table of contents are converted to plain regular text...



    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4065



    Presenter notes are gone from your keynote presentation.



    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4066



    You step up to the microphone and found that all your presenter notes are gone --- that's a major problem.
  • Reply 65 of 94
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dfiler View Post


    An interesting conundrum!



    I wonder how font licensing is going to work on all these not-quite-full-blown-computers that the iPad seems to be the harbinger of. It may not seem like a big deal, but fonts really are ludicrously expensive. Until now, these auxiliary devices haven't really had authoring capabilities. Now that they do... just how devices does linotype expect us to license each font for? If everyone starts owning a half dozen authoring capable devices, font pricing and/or licensing will certainly have to change.



    I get the impression that Apple is skirting these issues for now.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samab View Post


    It's a lot more than just fonts --- your footnotes and endnotes are gone, table of contents are converted to plain regular text...



    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4065



    Presenter notes are gone from your keynote presentation.



    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4066



    You step up to the microphone and found that all your presenter notes are gone --- that's a major problem.



    I understand the limitations, but a lot of the discussion in the Apple Support thread involves missing fonts.



    As for discovering something like notes being missing when you step up to a microphone, that's just a lack of preparation. No public speaker with even the slightest bit of experience would ever get caught that way.
  • Reply 66 of 94
    samabsamab Posts: 1,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    I understand the limitations, but a lot of the discussion in the Apple Support thread involves missing fonts.



    As for discovering something like notes being missing when you step up to a microphone, that's just a lack of preparation. No public speaker with even the slightest bit of experience would ever get caught that way.



    That's because fonts are the first and the most visible thing that these people see in the first 48 hours.



    Most of us aren't rock star CEO's with speech writing staff and days of practicing keynote speeches. We are lowly paid office workers that are thrusted into these things.
  • Reply 67 of 94
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samab View Post


    That's because fonts are the first and the most visible thing that these people see in the first 48 hours.



    Most of us aren't rock star CEO's with speech writing staff and days of practicing keynote speeches. We are lowly paid office workers that are thrusted into these things.



    Huh? I'm not a rock star CEO either, I just don't get caught with my pants down. Shame on anyone who does. No excuse for that, none at all.



    As for fonts, sure some people will notice, but I also notice that hardly anyone uses more than the same two fonts for virtually all documents anyway (to the point where I am sick of Arial and Times). The iPad already has a larger font library than most people will ever use, which seems to be the same font library which comes installed in OSX.
  • Reply 68 of 94
    samabsamab Posts: 1,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    Huh? I'm not a rock star CEO either, I just don't get caught with my pants down. Shame on anyone who does. No excuse for that, none at all.



    As for fonts, sure some people will notice, but I also notice that hardly anyone uses more than the same two fonts for virtually all documents anyway (to the point where I am sick of Arial and Times). The iPad already has a larger font library than most people will ever use, which seems to be the same font library which comes installed in OSX.



    That's not my point. My point is that these people only has the ipad for 48 hours --- so the only thing (the most visible thing) that they saw is the font management problem. They haven't discovered all the other limitations yet. That's why all you think you see is font management problems on the apple support forums.
  • Reply 69 of 94
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samab View Post


    That's not my point. My point is that these people only has the ipad for 48 hours --- so the only thing (the most visible thing) that they saw is the font management problem. They haven't discovered all the other limitations yet. That's why all you think you see is font management problems on the apple support forums.



    I understand what you're saying, but of course the same thing would be true if they transferred their documents to any other computer. That's the answer to the question. That is what people need to understand.
  • Reply 70 of 94
    samabsamab Posts: 1,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    I understand what you're saying, but of course the same thing would be true if they transferred their documents to any other computer. That's the answer to the question. That is what people need to understand.



    I don't think that people expect all their footnotes and endnotes to be wiped out.



    If you really care about public speaking, then you should support the banning of powerpoint presentations.
  • Reply 71 of 94
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,830moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samab View Post


    It's a lot more than just fonts --- your footnotes and endnotes are gone, table of contents are converted to plain regular text...



    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4065



    Presenter notes are gone from your keynote presentation.



    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4066



    You step up to the microphone and found that all your presenter notes are gone --- that's a major problem.



    The main problem with lack of fonts and stripping things out is not so much to do with requiring those on the iPad but obviously working on a document in the office, hopping on a train and continuing to edit and then sync back and expect to finish the documents in the office or even present them from the iPad isn't going to happen.



    Not being able to install your own fonts is a limitation many will have overlooked, it's not really something average users should be expected to think about on a device like this, which should really get rid of any complications present in more functional systems.



    Unless you are either creating everything on the iPad or only using the built-in fonts, iWork can't be used as an extension for your office work.



    Embedded audio removed from Keynotes, objects ungrouped, no 3D charts, page layout is changed in Pages, spanning tables are split in two. They had to make compromises of course, perhaps it was just time in getting the app ready and they will put some features back in but some things will have used too many resources like tracking changes for example.



    They didn't really sell it as a stripped down iWork suite during the presentations. They made it seem like they asked the developers to port it and they replied that the iWork suite had high requirements but somehow managed to pull it off. That's not quite the case if it downgrades imported documents.



    They'll be aware of the issues already though, we'll see on Thursday what improvements they make.



    Jailbroken iPads can install fonts and there are apps like QuickOffice, which might retain more data so there will be workarounds eventually.
  • Reply 72 of 94
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samab View Post


    I don't think that people expect all their footnotes and endnotes to be wiped out.



    If you really care about public speaking, then you should support the banning of powerpoint presentations.



    You mean if I were King? I'd ban leaf blowers too. In the meantime, run through your presentations before you make them, and cover your ears.



    You're right about footnotes/endnotes. That's a limitation I would not have discovered on my own, since I don't use them myself, but I'm sure it will drive some people nuts. They may have to wait for v2.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    The main problem with lack of fonts and stripping things out is not so much to do with requiring those on the iPad but obviously working on a document in the office, hopping on a train and continuing to edit and then sync back and expect to finish the documents in the office or even present them from the iPad isn't going to happen.



    Not being able to install your own fonts is a limitation many will have overlooked, it's not really something average users should be expected to think about on a device like this, which should really get rid of any complications present in more functional systems.



    Unless you are either creating everything on the iPad or only using the built-in fonts, iWork can't be used as an extension for your office work.



    Embedded audio removed from Keynotes, objects ungrouped, no 3D charts, page layout is changed in Pages, spanning tables are split in two. They had to make compromises of course, perhaps it was just time in getting the app ready and they will put some features back in but some things will have used too many resources like tracking changes for example.



    They didn't really sell it as a stripped down iWork suite during the presentations. They made it seem like they asked the developers to port it and they replied that the iWork suite had high requirements but somehow managed to pull it off. That's not quite the case if it downgrades imported documents.



    They'll be aware of the issues already though, we'll see on Thursday what improvements they make.



    Jailbroken iPads can install fonts and there are apps like QuickOffice, which might retain more data so there will be workarounds eventually.



    This issue is not nearly as dire as you suggest. Pages for iPad correctly preserves paragraph styles, so a document created on a Mac, edited on the iPad, and copied back to the Mac, preserves the original fonts. Now this assumes that you have used a font on your Mac that isn't included on the iPad, which probably isn't going to happen very often. The iPad font library is actually quite large. It seems to duplicate the standard OSX font library. So this isn't an issue that the average user will have to think about, because they are unlikely to encounter it.



    Incidentally, I am one person who absolutely wants to install fonts on the iPad, so I am not making any excuses for this limitation. I am simply pointing out that it will hardly be encountered by every user.
  • Reply 73 of 94
    samabsamab Posts: 1,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post


    You mean if I were King? I'd ban leaf blowers too. In the meantime, run through your presentations before you make them, and cover your ears.



    I never proclaim you as the King --- I merely stated you should support (as I do) the banning of powerpoint presentations.



    The number of people who can correctly use powerpoint presentations in their speeches --- are a real small minority. Just because you THINK you know how to speak publicly and you THINK you know how to use Keynote correctly --- doesn't really mean that you do.



    You are claiming that no public speaker with even the slightest bit of experience would ever get caught that way. And I am claiming that no public speaker with even the slightest bit of experience should use powerpoint presentations in the first place.
  • Reply 74 of 94
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by samab View Post


    I never proclaim you as the King --- I merely stated you should support (as I do) the banning of powerpoint presentations.



    The number of people who can correctly use powerpoint presentations in their speeches --- are a real small minority. Just because you THINK you know how to speak publicly and you THINK you know how to use Keynote correctly --- doesn't really mean that you do.



    It's an old joke. A lot of things would change if I were King, but since I'm not... and neither are you, then making wholesale changes in the way things are done would seem to not be within our powers.



    I make no representations except that I know better than to walk into a public presentation unprepared. This goes for whether I am planning on showing slides or simply speaking from notes. Anyone who doesn't prepare properly for any kind of speaking assignment gets no sympathy from me. The audience of an unprepared speaker does deserve sympathy, however, as they will have to suffer through it.
  • Reply 75 of 94
    idaveidave Posts: 1,283member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dfiler View Post


    It is ironic how some people are falling all over themselves to proclaim how crappy the iPad is. Instead of writing reviews with normal, non-click-bait headlines, they're purposefully slinging insults.



    Now that the public has been using iPads for a few days, we're seeing quite a few critical reviews. It's a refreshing change from the gushing praise that came last week from Apple's hand-picked early reviewers. Criticism doesn't mean the iPad stinks; just that there is room for improvement.



    Unfortunately you have to take the bad with the good to get a true picture of the iPad. I thought many of the points in the quoted Yahoo article were valid. Constant praise gets rather sickening and I hope Apple is listening to the critics so they can improve the iPad as may be necessary.
  • Reply 76 of 94
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iDave View Post


    Now that the public has been using iPads for a few days, we're seeing quite a few critical reviews. It's a refreshing change from the gushing praise that came last week from Apple's hand-picked early reviewers. Criticism doesn't mean the iPad stinks; just that there is room for improvement.



    Unfortunately you have to take the bad with the good to get a true picture of the iPad. I thought many of the points in the quoted Yahoo article were valid. Constant praise gets rather sickening and I hope Apple is listening to the critics so they can improve the iPad as may be necessary.



    Link?



    I have yet to see a critical review of the iPad. I've seen only glowing reviews on it.
  • Reply 77 of 94
    dfilerdfiler Posts: 3,420member
    Constant praise? Sure that's been happening.



    But hasn't there also been constant criticism? Are you actually claiming that the iPad hasn't also been criticized since day one? Flash? Camera? Foward facing camera? Just a big...? closed app distribution model, etc...



    Yes, criticism is helpful and the iPad deserves to, and has been subject to criticism.



    But where did you get the idea that the iPad had been getting a free ride? Sounds more like an axe to grind than anything else. Nothing has changed since release. Except that now both the positive and negative opinions are being offered after having actually used an iPad.
  • Reply 78 of 94
    kovichkovich Posts: 43member
    People seem to be saying that the iPad isn't a replacement for anything. That may well be so for many, but not for all. I will be getting an iPad to replace my laptop Mac. I have a desktop Mac in my weekend home and a laptop in my weekday home and never the twain met. I don't do much on my laptop Mac except send email and consume content so I will replace it with an iPad and for once actually carry the iPad between the two. The desktop Mac will be my main PC but I will use the iPad to do computing work in my weekday home and about the house in my weekend home, for instance we don't have a TV in our weekend kitchen but pretty soon, with the iPad and the BBC iPlayer we will. Come to think of it there are other things it could replace as well



    90% of our recipe books could go

    our kitchen radio/cd player could go

    the kitchen mop could go because I am sure there's an ""äpp for that"





    It won't be perfect but it will be a considerable improvement on my current arrangements and a lot cheaper than replacing my laptop with a laptop.
  • Reply 79 of 94
    carniphagecarniphage Posts: 1,984member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


    For the sake of the kids, make the iPad a master device.



    I think this is the single largest deficiency in the current iPad implementation.



    You should be able to buy an iPad, hook it up to Wifi - and do away with a desktop computer. This is something the Ars Technica review picked up on.



    The perfect solution would be to complement the iPad with a smart cloud-based service. A service which could take over the role of master device. Replicate your data, remember which Movies you own and so on.



    I am not a big fan of Mobile Me. But perhaps this is what Mobile Me should become?



    C.
  • Reply 80 of 94
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post


    I think this is the single largest deficiency in the current iPad implementation.



    You should be able to buy an iPad, hook it up to Wifi - and do away with a desktop computer. This is something the Ars Technica review picked up on.



    The perfect solution would be to complement the iPad with a smart cloud-based service. A service which could take over the role of master device. Replicate your data, remember which Movies you own and so on.



    I am not a big fan of Mobile Me. But perhaps this is what Mobile Me should become?



    C.



    Already is. Except for the initial setup, I haven't had to connect my iPad to my Mac.
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