I think that's a little unfair. Microsoft are starting to improve the way they do things. After years of having a self taught amateur as their head of software, now with Ray Ozzie, they are starting to do things more sensibly.
Whilst they are still way behind, Apple fans should not be so smug about Microsoft, with their money and good people leading them (excluding Balmer here), they can remain a force.
right
i'm also looking forward this improvement in doing things will help them produce a video of their new next great thing (such as the courier vaporware fiasco) but never anything real
Like I said before, Flash was developed in the anticipation that hardware would get faster over time, thus enabling the web to have more features.
But once the processor thermal wall was hit, it changed a lot of things. Multi-cores, hyper-threading, Grand Central and laptops stuck on dual cores, the new 13" MacBook Pro didn´t get a processor upgrade. Even the i5 and i7ś are much too hot in the new 15 and 17¨ MacBook Pro´s, Intel likely has gone as far as it can with laptop processors.
3D gaming has been leaving computers for consoles with more processors and elaborate cooling systems, that leaves laptops to become less powerful, smaller, thinner and lighter.
This generation of MacBook Pro´s might be the last, Apple might introduce some sort of iPad/MacBook Air combination device with the lower powered A4 processors.
At the moment, OS X and iPhone OS are totally incompatible. So I think what you envision will in fact not happen soon.
Like I said before, Flash was developed in the anticipation that hardware would get faster over time, thus enabling the web to have more features.
Now it's not Adobe's fault but Apple's for using a 400MHz ARM11 in the original iPhone.
Quote:
MacBook Pro´s, Intel likely has gone as far as it can with laptop processors.
Um, you might to read Intel's roadmaps.
Quote:
This generation of MacBook Pro´s might be the last, Apple might introduce some sort of iPad/MacBook Air combination device with the lower powered A4 processors.
We shouldn't get ahead of ourselves. While this is big (albeit old) news the biggest coup isn't against Flash as a whole as there are many things to be done and many years to go before HTML5 will even be a contender for the greater part of Flash, and it won't do it without JS and CSS in toe.
This is the most sensible comment i have read on these boards EVER.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
The two biggest gains here are the HTML5 video tag and H.264 support.
I disagree, for most people it will be the new block level tags, such as <header> <footer> <article> etc. These tags will see far more use than the <video> tag.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
The first one attacks Flash as a video portal. HTML5 video will be the primary way we watch video in the future. Looking at the handsets and the current options Flash for video has already started to drop and will continue to shrink in favour of lighter and better technologies.
The problem here is that so far, handsets do not offer the functionality of a desktop/hard drive where a users can rip streaming video too. When or if mobile devices do offer that functionality the limits of HTML5 video as it currently stands will become apparent.
Currently with Flash we can use RMTP and prohibit piracy. As far as I have seen the HTML5 <video> tag does not support this kind of thing because it is literally just a tag in the page that anyone can view source and steal from. Although I'm sure there will be some kind of JS dependent work-around.
The other thing I think people forget is that Flex is currently WAY better than JS at handling external data / XML. What we REALLY want to happen is for JS Harmony (which MS helped to stall btw) to become a reality.
At the moment, OS X and iPhone OS are totally incompatible. So I think what you envision will in fact not happen soon.
What the hell are you talking about "totally incompatible", damn and here I was thinking I was going to sync my phone on my mac or use any of the cloud sync apps between my mac and phone
What the hell are you talking about "totally incompatible", damn and here I was thinking I was going to sync my phone on my mac or use any of the cloud sync apps between my mac and phone
... go away little troll, run free and play.
You are right, 'totally incompatible' was a bad description of what I meant. I also sync my Macs with my iPhone and iTouch. What I mean is that the OS X and iPhone OS deliver quite different user experiences and I don't see how you can easily converge both, without causing problems for the average user (not those present here for example).
But all these intense emotions ... maybe run a bit before replying.
Where does this number come from? If you cite something, provide the reference. As others pointed out here: just announcing isn't enough.
I don't know that Apple has announced the 1 million figure, but they announced that 500,000 sold in the first week. Since that ended 20 days ago, 1 million isn't an unreasonable guess. And with the 3G models shipping today, I wouldn't be surprised if the number is more like 1.5 to 2 M in the first month (5 more days to go).
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpotOn
Like I said before, Flash was developed in the anticipation that hardware would get faster over time, thus enabling the web to have more features.
That's a terrible design strategy. Software ALWAYS bloats at least as fast as hardware speeds up. And the fact that Flash doesn't take advantage of multiple processors (which will likely be the main driving force for hardware improvement in coming years) makes it even harder.
As evidence? My Mac IIsi (20 MHz PPC) opened apps in a few seconds and did most tasks with little or no significant delay. My iMac (2,800 MHz with 2 processors and 100 times the RAM and dramatically faster GPU) also opens apps in a few seconds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpotOn
This generation of MacBook Pro´s might be the last, Apple might introduce some sort of iPad/MacBook Air combination device with the lower powered A4 processors.
That is, of course, nonsense. People use MacBook Pros for things like video and photo editing and the A4 just isn't up to it. It's not going to happen for many years - if ever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyourownthing
what do you expect from a me too company? a me too statement..
Sure, but I can't wait for the 'me too' statement from Adobe:
"All those things we said about Apple apply to Microsoft too. Neener, neener"
The only part of HTML5 that I care about is the canvas tag. Sure most of the Flash on the web is for video and it works really well for that. The video controls and the overlays are more advanced than HTML5 implementations, but it is the canvas tag that holds the key to replacing Flash. Notice how Hachamovitch conveniently omitted commenting on IE9 support for canvas tag. From what I have read, it won't be there. And duh, Flash has some issues, at least according to the makers of Silverlight.
The only part of HTML5 that I care about is the canvas tag. Sure most of the Flash on the web is for video and it works really well for that. The video controls and the overlays are more advanced than HTML5 implementations, but it is the canvas tag that holds the key to replacing Flash. Notice how Hachamovitch conveniently omitted commenting on IE9 support for canvas tag. From what I have read, it won't be there. And duh, Flash has some issues, at least according to the makers of Silverlight.
Good point, although the Canvas tag is only the place not the method. What we REALLY need is a great JS library to handle it, but there are some currently blossoming options out there such as JQuery.
Here is an interesting question to pose to MS "IF you are so on board with HTML5 as the future, are you abandoning Silverlight?"
Later Thursday, Adobe's CEO fired back, suggesting that most crashes of Flash in OS X are not related to his software, but instead are the fault of Apple's operating system.
Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit. This guy is clueless, if he would talk to his own employees he would know how poorly Flash runs on Mac OSX (and Linux).
Well we all knew Microsoft would make this decision for H.264 instead of Ogg Theora. The last thing Microsoft wants is an open-source codec to take over the web. Especially since the open source community was trying to put Ogg Theora support into IE through a plugin
This is not good. I'm concerned about the health of a specific subset of my fellow humans. This statement from Microsoft could create major cognitive dissonance for people who are fanboys of Microsoft and fanboys of Adobe. This could lead to a split brain process and temporary (or longer) madness.
Good point, although the Canvas tag is only the place not the method. What we REALLY need is a great JS library to handle it, but there are some currently blossoming options out there such as JQuery.
Here is an interesting question to pose to MS "IF you are so on board with HTML5 as the future, are you abandoning Silverlight?"
Another JS library is only going to further muddy the waters. We need a GUI based authoring environment so we have timeline based keyframes and tweening. HTML5 will not support shape tweening either. Maybe some crude hackish SVG method but it has a long way to go to reach the sophistication of Flash, especially in the creation tools area.
Flash is very object oriented in terms of loading objects inside of other objects and communicating between them. As opposed to canvas code which has to coexist with all the other unrelated JS on the page. With all the animations and interactivity that I would like to mash together, it gets really difficult to keep those complex interactions organized because there are no RAD tools to do it with.
Of course it's the future. Steve said so, already!
obvious. it can't be the past or the present because it doesnt exist yet as a standard. call me in 5 years when the adoption rates make this relevant news.
Comments
I think that's a little unfair. Microsoft are starting to improve the way they do things. After years of having a self taught amateur as their head of software, now with Ray Ozzie, they are starting to do things more sensibly.
Whilst they are still way behind, Apple fans should not be so smug about Microsoft, with their money and good people leading them (excluding Balmer here), they can remain a force.
right
i'm also looking forward this improvement in doing things will help them produce a video of their new next great thing (such as the courier vaporware fiasco) but never anything real
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/9012/dilbert1.gif
Yeah that one. Thanks
Yeah that one. Thanks
I encourage its use.
Like I said before, Flash was developed in the anticipation that hardware would get faster over time, thus enabling the web to have more features.
But once the processor thermal wall was hit, it changed a lot of things. Multi-cores, hyper-threading, Grand Central and laptops stuck on dual cores, the new 13" MacBook Pro didn´t get a processor upgrade. Even the i5 and i7ś are much too hot in the new 15 and 17¨ MacBook Pro´s, Intel likely has gone as far as it can with laptop processors.
3D gaming has been leaving computers for consoles with more processors and elaborate cooling systems, that leaves laptops to become less powerful, smaller, thinner and lighter.
This generation of MacBook Pro´s might be the last, Apple might introduce some sort of iPad/MacBook Air combination device with the lower powered A4 processors.
At the moment, OS X and iPhone OS are totally incompatible. So I think what you envision will in fact not happen soon.
Like I said before, Flash was developed in the anticipation that hardware would get faster over time, thus enabling the web to have more features.
Now it's not Adobe's fault but Apple's for using a 400MHz ARM11 in the original iPhone.
MacBook Pro´s, Intel likely has gone as far as it can with laptop processors.
Um, you might to read Intel's roadmaps.
This generation of MacBook Pro´s might be the last, Apple might introduce some sort of iPad/MacBook Air combination device with the lower powered A4 processors.
Not even close!
We shouldn't get ahead of ourselves. While this is big (albeit old) news the biggest coup isn't against Flash as a whole as there are many things to be done and many years to go before HTML5 will even be a contender for the greater part of Flash, and it won't do it without JS and CSS in toe.
This is the most sensible comment i have read on these boards EVER.
The two biggest gains here are the HTML5 video tag and H.264 support.
I disagree, for most people it will be the new block level tags, such as <header> <footer> <article> etc. These tags will see far more use than the <video> tag.
The first one attacks Flash as a video portal. HTML5 video will be the primary way we watch video in the future. Looking at the handsets and the current options Flash for video has already started to drop and will continue to shrink in favour of lighter and better technologies.
The problem here is that so far, handsets do not offer the functionality of a desktop/hard drive where a users can rip streaming video too. When or if mobile devices do offer that functionality the limits of HTML5 video as it currently stands will become apparent.
Currently with Flash we can use RMTP and prohibit piracy. As far as I have seen the HTML5 <video> tag does not support this kind of thing because it is literally just a tag in the page that anyone can view source and steal from. Although I'm sure there will be some kind of JS dependent work-around.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Ti...aging_Protocol
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/rtmp/
The other thing I think people forget is that Flex is currently WAY better than JS at handling external data / XML. What we REALLY want to happen is for JS Harmony (which MS helped to stall btw) to become a reality.
http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2936
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECMAScr...Script_Harmony
At the moment, OS X and iPhone OS are totally incompatible. So I think what you envision will in fact not happen soon.
What the hell are you talking about "totally incompatible", damn and here I was thinking I was going to sync my phone on my mac
... go away little troll, run free and play.
What the hell are you talking about "totally incompatible", damn and here I was thinking I was going to sync my phone on my mac
... go away little troll, run free and play.
You are right, 'totally incompatible' was a bad description of what I meant. I also sync my Macs with my iPhone and iTouch. What I mean is that the OS X and iPhone OS deliver quite different user experiences and I don't see how you can easily converge both, without causing problems for the average user (not those present here for example).
But all these intense emotions ... maybe run a bit before replying.
Where does this number come from? If you cite something, provide the reference. As others pointed out here: just announcing isn't enough.
I don't know that Apple has announced the 1 million figure, but they announced that 500,000 sold in the first week. Since that ended 20 days ago, 1 million isn't an unreasonable guess. And with the 3G models shipping today, I wouldn't be surprised if the number is more like 1.5 to 2 M in the first month (5 more days to go).
Like I said before, Flash was developed in the anticipation that hardware would get faster over time, thus enabling the web to have more features.
That's a terrible design strategy. Software ALWAYS bloats at least as fast as hardware speeds up. And the fact that Flash doesn't take advantage of multiple processors (which will likely be the main driving force for hardware improvement in coming years) makes it even harder.
As evidence? My Mac IIsi (20 MHz PPC) opened apps in a few seconds and did most tasks with little or no significant delay. My iMac (2,800 MHz with 2 processors and 100 times the RAM and dramatically faster GPU) also opens apps in a few seconds.
This generation of MacBook Pro´s might be the last, Apple might introduce some sort of iPad/MacBook Air combination device with the lower powered A4 processors.
That is, of course, nonsense. People use MacBook Pros for things like video and photo editing and the A4 just isn't up to it. It's not going to happen for many years - if ever.
what do you expect from a me too company? a me too statement..
Sure, but I can't wait for the 'me too' statement from Adobe:
"All those things we said about Apple apply to Microsoft too. Neener, neener"
</pun>
The only part of HTML5 that I care about is the canvas tag. Sure most of the Flash on the web is for video and it works really well for that. The video controls and the overlays are more advanced than HTML5 implementations, but it is the canvas tag that holds the key to replacing Flash. Notice how Hachamovitch conveniently omitted commenting on IE9 support for canvas tag. From what I have read, it won't be there. And duh, Flash has some issues, at least according to the makers of Silverlight.
Good point, although the Canvas tag is only the place not the method. What we REALLY need is a great JS library to handle it, but there are some currently blossoming options out there such as JQuery.
Here is an interesting question to pose to MS "IF you are so on board with HTML5 as the future, are you abandoning Silverlight?"
Later Thursday, Adobe's CEO fired back, suggesting that most crashes of Flash in OS X are not related to his software, but instead are the fault of Apple's operating system.
Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit. This guy is clueless, if he would talk to his own employees he would know how poorly Flash runs on Mac OSX (and Linux).
Good point, although the Canvas tag is only the place not the method. What we REALLY need is a great JS library to handle it, but there are some currently blossoming options out there such as JQuery.
Here is an interesting question to pose to MS "IF you are so on board with HTML5 as the future, are you abandoning Silverlight?"
Another JS library is only going to further muddy the waters. We need a GUI based authoring environment so we have timeline based keyframes and tweening. HTML5 will not support shape tweening either. Maybe some crude hackish SVG method but it has a long way to go to reach the sophistication of Flash, especially in the creation tools area.
Flash is very object oriented in terms of loading objects inside of other objects and communicating between them. As opposed to canvas code which has to coexist with all the other unrelated JS on the page. With all the animations and interactivity that I would like to mash together, it gets really difficult to keep those complex interactions organized because there are no RAD tools to do it with.
Of course it's the future. Steve said so, already!
obvious. it can't be the past or the present because it doesnt exist yet as a standard. call me in 5 years when the adoption rates make this relevant news.