The moaning and wailing and caterwauling here is out-of-control. Pathetic, really.
Pay for what you eat!
For most of us, esp. those with family plans with widely varying usage patterns, this will be a price reduction. The only part of the pricing that I would quibble with is $15 for 200MB extra in the DataPlus Plan when they plan to (very reasonably, imho) charge $10 for an 1GB in the DataPro plan.
Those plans are priced based on a predicted use. If tethering was included for everyone the predicted use would be much higher and we'd all pay a lot more.
What's been happening, I suspect, is that most of us are not coming close to 2GB. Not close at all. And thus MOST of us have been paying way too much.
If we could "eat the mints we paid for any way we want" we'd probably get closer to getting what we paid for. But the predicted use would be higher and so would the plans.
Pricing for a capped max is the problem here, especially when there was only one tier. You can try to eat as much as you can out of spite, but it's not really productive. I think today's change is a step toward letting people pay for what they use, although one more tier between 200MB and 2GB might have been warranted.
Yes, that is exactly what the caps are for...to bring what you pay more in line with what you use. I think their per MB charges are pretty high, but they are what they are. I am not against them getting rid of the unlimited, though I am sure it was nice. But now that you are capped, why shouldn't you be able to use all?
As far as plans being priced based on predicted use, then that is what they ought to be based on and flogged as. Instead they are sold to you as being based on what you can use, i.e. 2GB. So, you are paying to use 2GB, but they are assuming/predicting that you won't use it. If they are expecting you not to use 2GB but only 500MB, then charge for 500MB and not 2GB.
If you use your data is such a way that you might be more likely to use the 2GB you paid for, then you have to pay a second time to actually use it up.
I turned off the data plans for both of our iPhones (by switching to regular phones) because of the expense. This might bring us back into the fold. We mainly miss the ability to check Yelp listings and Google maps while on the road.
Because people wanted an iPhone and unlimited was the only option available. While I and others and happy to be saving some money each month that doesn't mean others will be happy. It's been aptly stated by AIaddict, AppDev and others, it's designed to force the heavy users off AT&T, which is a win for AT&T and normal users.
This is my point. Why should others on this thread criticize (some even said to lose weight, go to work and get out more) when their purchase was essentially an impulse buy while others actually made use of their purchase.
The term heavy user is a relative term in this case. Our neighbors up north consider heavy usage anything over 6GB and that includes free tethering. AT&T apparently considers over 2GB and are charging for tethering without any benefits. Had AT&T stuck to their unofficial/suggested cap of 5GB I wouldn't have a problem. 2GB is really a small amount for the price especially when you consider the upcoming potential features of the 4G and any future iTunes cloud-based content.
I hope AT&T is not changing their pricing model just for iPhone. If so, I do hope what Steve Jobs said yesterday on D8 is true - That is, he hopes iPhone has multi-network future. Because, I think what AT&T just did is screwed most of their customer base. I was just looking at the Data Usage on my AT&T bill and I noticed that my average use is certainly around 300MB and not 200MB, except spikes in recent month, which I think is because my kids were watching YouTube while they were getting bored standing in the line. I am not a lite user nor I am a power user. I use my iPhone to check stocks and news and my personal e-mail while I have some down time. Other thing I use my iPhone is for my GPS, which does generate data usage.
So this whole new pricing structure will change my iPhone usage pattern and is basically losing the feature usage of this marvelous device. Since I am already in plan I hope they will have to honor my unlimited internet contract even if I upgrade my device to new iPhone 4G - If they don't, I hope I am protected with some consumer protection clause. I do hope Apple start making their device multi-network soon.
Only the most cultish of Apple fanboy will spin this ripoff as something good. The people who just purchased the iPad 3Gs with the happy promises of unlimited data plan are now finding out that Lord Jobs & AT&T have essentially lied through their teeth. Mass returns, class action lawsuits, FTC, you name it.
No, just no. people you already have the unlimited data plan can keep it and if you just bought an Ipad today you will see it when registering.
Americans and lawsuit is freaking joke, they would suit the sun for a sunburn if they could.
Show me a Utility (Gas, Electric, Water) that has an unlimited plan? Would you want that? Would you want everyone to pay the same monthly costs if you use a lot less than the average user?
It does not make sense.....and it doesn't make sense in wireless networking either. I do not want to pay for anyone else's service.
You dont get it. The towers, internet lines, the routers, the spectrum licenses all have to be paid for REGARDLESS if you use 1k or 5 gigs. the cost must be spread out. The cost of sending the actuality bits to your computer is almost nothing (unlike, water, gas, electric) its the infrastructure to get it to you that costs the most money.
You don get it. The towers, internet lines, the routers, the spectrum licenses all have to be paid for REGARDLESS is you use 1k or 5 gigs. the cost must be spread out. The cost of sending the actuality bits to your computer is almost nothing (unlike, water, gas, electric) its the infrastructure to get it to you that costs the most money.
True and not true. If they constantly have to upgrade the hardware to meet increasing demand it gets costly fast. Not to mention a few people with unlimited data plan can bring down the service for everyone. At some point you will cook standing there just like if you were in a microwave.
But now that you are capped, why shouldn't you be able to use all?
imho - because the prices, fair or not, would be higher if everyone used something close to their cap. AT&T beancounters probably revel in how many of us have been paying for 5GB and using < 20% of it. In return, the plans are hopefully priced a little lower than they would be if we all got near the cap.
The prices are what they are based on predicted use. And that price is lower than if tethering were allowed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas
As far as plans being priced based on predicted use, then that is what they ought to be based on and flogged as. Instead they are sold to you as being based on what you can use, i.e. 2GB. So, you are paying to use 2GB, but they are assuming/predicting that you won't use it. If they are expecting you not to use 2GB but only 500MB, then charge for 500MB and not 2GB.
Yeah - I think the new plan is closer to achieving that for many of us, but like I said, it needs at least another tier. To me, it was ridiculous that they could be allowed to call something unlimited when it was in fact capped.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas
If you use your data is such a way that you might be more likely to use the 2GB you paid for, then you have to pay a second time to actually use it up.
I see your point there, I really do.
Maybe this helps: Lots of us will never need to tether, and when I look at the price of my tier I can easily see it costing $20 more per month than it does now if tethering was included. Based on predicted use and how AT&T would have to set prices.
For some of us our usage might vary quite a bit, and maybe that's a reason to have fewer tiers. That could be another reason some of us will be further below our cap in a given month.
I agree, in a perfect world it would be nice to pay for exactly what you're going to use. But that's an unknown every month. You have to ask yourself if you'd prefer paying by the bit. Would you enjoy Pandora as much if each song cost a little more?
This is my point. Why should others on this thread criticize (some even said to lose weight, go to work and get out more) when their purchase was essentially an impulse buy while others actually made use of their purchase.
I have no concern for people who make impulse buys and then complain about it. If you signed up for an unlimited plan you still get to maintain your unlimited plan. AT&T is not tearing up those contracts, even though they legally can, with the caveat that you would no longer be responsible for at ETF fee.
There are aspects of this new plan l that I certainly don't care for, but it's their choice to do business as they see fit. Unless you can find some illegal about the practice, not undesirable, then all you're king is bellyaching. Comparing to another country's cellular infrastructure makes no sense.
It's not silly at all for iPad WiFi+3G owners. It's very easy to exceed 2GB on an iPad (over 3G).
i got one of those. i load all my big content on it at home, by sync or by wifi. where do i want to stream via Netflix or TV websites for hours outside of a hotel or airport? and i just use SlingPlayer briefly to catch news and sports around town, probably a wifi cafe hot spot anyway. so when traveling i can bump up to the big plan that month, and the rest of the year i stay on the small plan. if you're a frequent flyer/road warrior, either you got bucks or some company is paying your travel costs (and very possibly your AT&T service costs too) anyway. so what is the actual problem scenario?
I have no concern for people who make impulse buys and then complain about it. If you signed up for an unlimited plan you still get to maintain your unlimited plan. AT&T is not tearing up those contracts, even though they legally can, with the caveat that you would no longer be responsible for at ETF fee.
Like I said before, what happens when your contract is up like mine is in July? Surely AT&T is not going to continue offering an unlimited plan to these users.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
There are aspects of this new plan l that I certainly don't care for, but it's their choice to do business as they see fit. Unless you can find some illegal about the practice, not undesirable, then all you're king is bellyaching. Comparing to another country's cellular infrastructure makes no sense.
You can call it bellyaching, whining, crying and whatever other sort of insult but people have a right to be upset over this. I don't get where you think I said AT&T is doing something illegal.
Comparing one company's data plan to another in a bordering country makes no sense to you? If you don't like that comparison go check out data plans for Verizon, T-Mobile & Sprint for a comparison that is more suitable for you.
This is my point. Why should others on this thread criticize (some even said to lose weight, go to work and get out more) when their purchase was essentially an impulse buy while others actually made use of their purchase.
The term heavy user is a relative term in this case. Our neighbors up north consider heavy usage anything over 6GB and that includes free tethering. AT&T apparently considers over 2GB and are charging for tethering without any benefits. Had AT&T stuck to their unofficial/suggested cap of 5GB I wouldn't have a problem. 2GB is really a small amount for the price especially when you consider the upcoming potential features of the 4G and any future iTunes cloud-based content.
I should have clarified. The 6 GB in Canada was a limited time offer. Typical plans offer only 500 MB, but tethering is still free.
For those of us that don't want a data plan at all with our phones, this isn't a bad option. At school I have wifi EVERYWHERE, there's no need for me to have a data plan. I'd be more interested in paying an extra $15 a month to have an iPhone/Android Phone than $30 a month. But the $25 a month for 2GB is a ripoff, imo.
AT&T provides an app that clearly shows your usage.
This is no different that monitoring your minutes or texts. We are supposed to be responsible grown ups.
Quote:
Originally Posted by peteo
are you kidding me. The first time a person gets and overage bill for $100 since they didn't realize how much data they used to watch a base ball game on the MLB app, there are going to flip!!!!!!!
You dont get it. The towers, internet lines, the routers, the spectrum licenses all have to be paid for REGARDLESS if you use 1k or 5 gigs. the cost must be spread out. The cost of sending the actuality bits to your computer is almost nothing (unlike, water, gas, electric) its the infrastructure to get it to you that costs the most money.
Your post makes little economic sense. On any number of fronts. But here's a catchall, put simply: creating capacity costs money; extra capacity costs more money (whether it's bandwidth, water pipes or generation/T&D assets for electric power).
You dont get it. The towers, internet lines, the routers, the spectrum licenses all have to be paid for REGARDLESS if you use 1k or 5 gigs. the cost must be spread out. The cost of sending the actuality bits to your computer is almost nothing (unlike, water, gas, electric) its the infrastructure to get it to you that costs the most money.
But infrastructure has to be paid for and replaced after some time. Divide the cost of the infrastructure by its lifetime and the amount of data it can throughput and you get a cost per MB.
What you argue is that the marginal costs of one MB are essentially zero (probably a small additional electricity consumption in the towers). But while a company can offer a product at marginal cost while it has idle capacity, it cannot do so forever.
Comments
Pay for what you eat!
For most of us, esp. those with family plans with widely varying usage patterns, this will be a price reduction. The only part of the pricing that I would quibble with is $15 for 200MB extra in the DataPlus Plan when they plan to (very reasonably, imho) charge $10 for an 1GB in the DataPro plan.
unless, you must have tethering. Then you must change plans.
tiftfy
I hear you, but it's not that simple.
Those plans are priced based on a predicted use. If tethering was included for everyone the predicted use would be much higher and we'd all pay a lot more.
What's been happening, I suspect, is that most of us are not coming close to 2GB. Not close at all. And thus MOST of us have been paying way too much.
If we could "eat the mints we paid for any way we want" we'd probably get closer to getting what we paid for. But the predicted use would be higher and so would the plans.
Pricing for a capped max is the problem here, especially when there was only one tier. You can try to eat as much as you can out of spite, but it's not really productive. I think today's change is a step toward letting people pay for what they use, although one more tier between 200MB and 2GB might have been warranted.
Yes, that is exactly what the caps are for...to bring what you pay more in line with what you use. I think their per MB charges are pretty high, but they are what they are. I am not against them getting rid of the unlimited, though I am sure it was nice. But now that you are capped, why shouldn't you be able to use all?
As far as plans being priced based on predicted use, then that is what they ought to be based on and flogged as. Instead they are sold to you as being based on what you can use, i.e. 2GB. So, you are paying to use 2GB, but they are assuming/predicting that you won't use it. If they are expecting you not to use 2GB but only 500MB, then charge for 500MB and not 2GB.
If you use your data is such a way that you might be more likely to use the 2GB you paid for, then you have to pay a second time to actually use it up.
Because people wanted an iPhone and unlimited was the only option available. While I and others and happy to be saving some money each month that doesn't mean others will be happy. It's been aptly stated by AIaddict, AppDev and others, it's designed to force the heavy users off AT&T, which is a win for AT&T and normal users.
This is my point. Why should others on this thread criticize (some even said to lose weight, go to work and get out more) when their purchase was essentially an impulse buy while others actually made use of their purchase.
The term heavy user is a relative term in this case. Our neighbors up north consider heavy usage anything over 6GB and that includes free tethering. AT&T apparently considers over 2GB and are charging for tethering without any benefits. Had AT&T stuck to their unofficial/suggested cap of 5GB I wouldn't have a problem. 2GB is really a small amount for the price especially when you consider the upcoming potential features of the 4G and any future iTunes cloud-based content.
So this whole new pricing structure will change my iPhone usage pattern and is basically losing the feature usage of this marvelous device. Since I am already in plan I hope they will have to honor my unlimited internet contract even if I upgrade my device to new iPhone 4G - If they don't, I hope I am protected with some consumer protection clause. I do hope Apple start making their device multi-network soon.
Only the most cultish of Apple fanboy will spin this ripoff as something good. The people who just purchased the iPad 3Gs with the happy promises of unlimited data plan are now finding out that Lord Jobs & AT&T have essentially lied through their teeth. Mass returns, class action lawsuits, FTC, you name it.
No, just no. people you already have the unlimited data plan can keep it and if you just bought an Ipad today you will see it when registering.
Americans and lawsuit is freaking joke, they would suit the sun for a sunburn if they could.
Show me a Utility (Gas, Electric, Water) that has an unlimited plan? Would you want that? Would you want everyone to pay the same monthly costs if you use a lot less than the average user?
It does not make sense.....and it doesn't make sense in wireless networking either. I do not want to pay for anyone else's service.
You dont get it. The towers, internet lines, the routers, the spectrum licenses all have to be paid for REGARDLESS if you use 1k or 5 gigs. the cost must be spread out. The cost of sending the actuality bits to your computer is almost nothing (unlike, water, gas, electric) its the infrastructure to get it to you that costs the most money.
Caps on internet access is absurd. They should be going away, not coming back.
You don get it. The towers, internet lines, the routers, the spectrum licenses all have to be paid for REGARDLESS is you use 1k or 5 gigs. the cost must be spread out. The cost of sending the actuality bits to your computer is almost nothing (unlike, water, gas, electric) its the infrastructure to get it to you that costs the most money.
True and not true. If they constantly have to upgrade the hardware to meet increasing demand it gets costly fast. Not to mention a few people with unlimited data plan can bring down the service for everyone. At some point you will cook standing there just like if you were in a microwave.
A pipe is a pipe, its has limits.
But now that you are capped, why shouldn't you be able to use all?
imho - because the prices, fair or not, would be higher if everyone used something close to their cap. AT&T beancounters probably revel in how many of us have been paying for 5GB and using < 20% of it. In return, the plans are hopefully priced a little lower than they would be if we all got near the cap.
The prices are what they are based on predicted use. And that price is lower than if tethering were allowed.
As far as plans being priced based on predicted use, then that is what they ought to be based on and flogged as. Instead they are sold to you as being based on what you can use, i.e. 2GB. So, you are paying to use 2GB, but they are assuming/predicting that you won't use it. If they are expecting you not to use 2GB but only 500MB, then charge for 500MB and not 2GB.
Yeah - I think the new plan is closer to achieving that for many of us, but like I said, it needs at least another tier. To me, it was ridiculous that they could be allowed to call something unlimited when it was in fact capped.
If you use your data is such a way that you might be more likely to use the 2GB you paid for, then you have to pay a second time to actually use it up.
I see your point there, I really do.
Maybe this helps: Lots of us will never need to tether, and when I look at the price of my tier I can easily see it costing $20 more per month than it does now if tethering was included. Based on predicted use and how AT&T would have to set prices.
For some of us our usage might vary quite a bit, and maybe that's a reason to have fewer tiers. That could be another reason some of us will be further below our cap in a given month.
I agree, in a perfect world it would be nice to pay for exactly what you're going to use. But that's an unknown every month. You have to ask yourself if you'd prefer paying by the bit. Would you enjoy Pandora as much if each song cost a little more?
This is my point. Why should others on this thread criticize (some even said to lose weight, go to work and get out more) when their purchase was essentially an impulse buy while others actually made use of their purchase.
I have no concern for people who make impulse buys and then complain about it. If you signed up for an unlimited plan you still get to maintain your unlimited plan. AT&T is not tearing up those contracts, even though they legally can, with the caveat that you would no longer be responsible for at ETF fee.
There are aspects of this new plan l that I certainly don't care for, but it's their choice to do business as they see fit. Unless you can find some illegal about the practice, not undesirable, then all you're king is bellyaching. Comparing to another country's cellular infrastructure makes no sense.
It's not silly at all for iPad WiFi+3G owners. It's very easy to exceed 2GB on an iPad (over 3G).
i got one of those. i load all my big content on it at home, by sync or by wifi. where do i want to stream via Netflix or TV websites for hours outside of a hotel or airport? and i just use SlingPlayer briefly to catch news and sports around town, probably a wifi cafe hot spot anyway. so when traveling i can bump up to the big plan that month, and the rest of the year i stay on the small plan. if you're a frequent flyer/road warrior, either you got bucks or some company is paying your travel costs (and very possibly your AT&T service costs too) anyway. so what is the actual problem scenario?
I have no concern for people who make impulse buys and then complain about it. If you signed up for an unlimited plan you still get to maintain your unlimited plan. AT&T is not tearing up those contracts, even though they legally can, with the caveat that you would no longer be responsible for at ETF fee.
Like I said before, what happens when your contract is up like mine is in July? Surely AT&T is not going to continue offering an unlimited plan to these users.
There are aspects of this new plan l that I certainly don't care for, but it's their choice to do business as they see fit. Unless you can find some illegal about the practice, not undesirable, then all you're king is bellyaching. Comparing to another country's cellular infrastructure makes no sense.
You can call it bellyaching, whining, crying and whatever other sort of insult but people have a right to be upset over this. I don't get where you think I said AT&T is doing something illegal.
Comparing one company's data plan to another in a bordering country makes no sense to you? If you don't like that comparison go check out data plans for Verizon, T-Mobile & Sprint for a comparison that is more suitable for you.
This is my point. Why should others on this thread criticize (some even said to lose weight, go to work and get out more) when their purchase was essentially an impulse buy while others actually made use of their purchase.
The term heavy user is a relative term in this case. Our neighbors up north consider heavy usage anything over 6GB and that includes free tethering. AT&T apparently considers over 2GB and are charging for tethering without any benefits. Had AT&T stuck to their unofficial/suggested cap of 5GB I wouldn't have a problem. 2GB is really a small amount for the price especially when you consider the upcoming potential features of the 4G and any future iTunes cloud-based content.
I should have clarified. The 6 GB in Canada was a limited time offer. Typical plans offer only 500 MB, but tethering is still free.
This is no different that monitoring your minutes or texts. We are supposed to be responsible grown ups.
are you kidding me. The first time a person gets and overage bill for $100 since they didn't realize how much data they used to watch a base ball game on the MLB app, there are going to flip!!!!!!!
You dont get it. The towers, internet lines, the routers, the spectrum licenses all have to be paid for REGARDLESS if you use 1k or 5 gigs. the cost must be spread out. The cost of sending the actuality bits to your computer is almost nothing (unlike, water, gas, electric) its the infrastructure to get it to you that costs the most money.
Your post makes little economic sense. On any number of fronts. But here's a catchall, put simply: creating capacity costs money; extra capacity costs more money (whether it's bandwidth, water pipes or generation/T&D assets for electric power).
Umm your math is wrong your "Saving" $5 not $15.
Also I LOVE how every one is excited to pay a little less, to get ALLOT Less.
if AT&T really wanted to do users good, they would have added a $15 for 2 gig plan
But no they want to screw you and take as much money as they can.
you're looking at this wrong. we're paying a little less and STILL getting a LOT MORE than we will use.
anyone going over 2GB/Month needs to learn what WiFi is.
You dont get it. The towers, internet lines, the routers, the spectrum licenses all have to be paid for REGARDLESS if you use 1k or 5 gigs. the cost must be spread out. The cost of sending the actuality bits to your computer is almost nothing (unlike, water, gas, electric) its the infrastructure to get it to you that costs the most money.
But infrastructure has to be paid for and replaced after some time. Divide the cost of the infrastructure by its lifetime and the amount of data it can throughput and you get a cost per MB.
What you argue is that the marginal costs of one MB are essentially zero (probably a small additional electricity consumption in the towers). But while a company can offer a product at marginal cost while it has idle capacity, it cannot do so forever.