Apple yanks widget apps, likely to add feature to iPhone OS 4

1234568

Comments

  • Reply 141 of 176
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    Jobs just said yesterday that when apps are pulled from the store their is always more to the story than the developer is telling. Developers sometimes even lie.



    URL demonstrating such a lie?



    Quote:

    He said Apple does not feel the need to constantly defend these choices.



    So instead they offer no defense at all.



    There wasn't a single point in his Thoughts About Flash that holds up to technical scrutiny. It was presented for the benefit of the lay press who don't have the knowledge to know where each point falls apart, but there are hundreds of tech blogs who've done that quite effectively.
  • Reply 142 of 176
    depannistdepannist Posts: 28member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post


    The key to appreciating the horror of this latest anti-developer move by Apple is in this part of the story:







    It's just an app, more like a screen saver than any "OS feature". Apple had published no guidelines suggesting it would not be acceptable, and indeed had approved the app for sale in their store - three times.



    Stories like this are cropping up with a regularity that is quite dismaying to the developer world and, like the posters above, moving a great many of them to Android.



    The problem is, to date, the Apple AppStore is still the most profitable place for a developer to be.
  • Reply 143 of 176
    williamlondonwilliamlondon Posts: 1,407member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post


    That would be the logical way to do it. To this date, I have yet to see Apple act logically about those sorts of issues. This is where having too much control to "craft an experience" starting making the company look like asshats in a much broader way.



    Logical only if the centre of your universe is the developer and not the end user.



    It's all about user experience, and I for one am thrilled Apple always honours this above all else (no matter what their interests are).



    I don't think they look like "asshats" - if for one moment something about their devices isn't perfect in user experience, that information flies out (there enough anti-Apple pigeons to get that message sent far and wide!) gets out and grandma won't buy the device she's heard "just works and is so easy to use".



    Assume for one moment the user and user experience are always central to all their decisions. At that point, all these decisions make perfect sense.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by manzanaboy View Post


    there's forums for windoze? man i'm oblivious! lol



    Actually, there are no forums where people discuss how much they like Windows (there aren't enough winfans to form a quorum!), which is why they come a trolling here and on other Mac sites. ;-)
  • Reply 144 of 176
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by williamlondon View Post


    Assume for one moment the user and user experience are always central to all their decisions. At that point, all these decisions make perfect sense.



    Three words: hockey puck mouse.
  • Reply 145 of 176
    williamlondonwilliamlondon Posts: 1,407member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post


    Three words: hockey puck mouse.



    What? Didn't like the fact there weren't 3 buttons?
  • Reply 146 of 176
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    So you post some links that essentially show Android app development is growing. Which is perfectly natural as the Android platform grows. You are attempting show this as evidence that developers are leaving the iPhone because of Apple policies. I cannot find that conclusion from the information in those links.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post


    IAs for where developers will be going next year, consider:



    You just can't have abusive relationships with developers and not expect some blowback.



  • Reply 147 of 176
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post


    URL demonstrating such a lie? So instead they offer no defense at all.



    It's Apple's platform there is no reason why Apple has to get into petty back and forth arguments with disgruntled developers.



    Quote:

    There wasn't a single point in his Thoughts About Flash that holds up to technical scrutiny. It was presented for the benefit of the lay press who don't have the knowledge to know where each point falls apart, but there are hundreds of tech blogs who've done that quite effectively.



    The fact that it's taking so much time and so much effort to get flash working is plenty of technical scrutiny. How much more scrutiny do you need?
  • Reply 148 of 176
    cmf2cmf2 Posts: 1,427member
    Is RationalTroll the same as iGenius? I know I had the same debate when choosing to ignore him. There is some intelligence there, but he chooses to waste it trolling people.
  • Reply 149 of 176
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    It's Apple's platform there is no reason why Apple has to get into petty back and forth arguments with disgruntled developers.



    If there are lies it shouldn't be hard to turn up even a single example.



    It's just not wise to take broad and unsupported claims at face value, whether it's Steve Jobs or anyone else.



    Not everything you read on the Internet is true.
  • Reply 150 of 176
    depannistdepannist Posts: 28member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RationalTroll View Post


    URL demonstrating such a lie?





    So instead they offer no defense at all.



    There wasn't a single point in his Thoughts About Flash that holds up to technical scrutiny. It was presented for the benefit of the lay press who don't have the knowledge to know where each point falls apart, but there are hundreds of tech blogs who've done that quite effectively.



    If hundreds or thousands of developers are coding to the Flash api and effectively leaving Adobe to deal with Apple's framework, then all of these developers will be at the mercy of Adobe as to when they can support the latest features of an iPhoneOS. Worse yet, Apple themselves, will be at Adobe's mercy as to when applications will start supporting the latest features added to an OS release. If Adobe drags their feet, the iPhone potentially loses any edge it may have over other OSes. In fact, Adobe may choose to not support certain iPhoneOS features at all. Developers relying on the Flash api and Apple both get hijacked!!!

    This point has been raised a few times, but no tech blog or otherwise, has given a solution to this problem. I agree SJ is a bit of a control freak, but some of his decisions do have sound technical justification.
  • Reply 151 of 176
    bettiebluebettieblue Posts: 294member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post


    New Android phones just introduced outsold a year old iPhone? Wow... The question was will they outsell the iPhone in 2010? As in the whole year, which includes the 4th gen iPhone launch. We all saw the sales numbers from the minimally upgraded 3GS, a significantly upgraded 4th gen model will destroy those. It's likely that Android phones will outsell the iPhone on a continuous basis, but I don't think 2010 will be that year. Try to be a little more rational and a little less troll.



    My prediction is that the iPhone will allow Apple to jump back into the lead for 60-90 days if they stick to only ATT and then get hammered from then on.



    Adroid hardware and OS will rev faster than Apple can, because you have many more players on the Android side.



    If they open the iPhone up to Verizon then they maybe able to fend off Android for a while longer. However they still will only have 1 phone on two networks.



    Apple has been rising over the last 5 years and iPhone was a leap ahead of the other sleeping competitors but those days are over. Google and even MS are back in the game. The iPad will enjoy a much shorter grace period before the flood of tablets from the others crash down.
  • Reply 152 of 176
    nasseraenasserae Posts: 3,167member
    Developers will probably be able to develop iPad widgets using Dashcode.
  • Reply 153 of 176
    capoeira4ucapoeira4u Posts: 160member
    I don't get. Could someone pls define what is a widget exactly? How's it different from an app?
  • Reply 154 of 176
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    You didn't watch the keynote very closely. They specifically had the guy from Pandora on, saying how OS 4 lets you play radio in the background of other apps.



    That's music though. As far as I understand, there's exceptions for specific functions right? I am not trying to troll here. I am genuinely interested in what isn't allowed in the background.



    But it's nice that music is allowed. I suspect 90% of users are like me. Music in the background, something else in the foreground being worked on.
  • Reply 155 of 176
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cmf2 View Post


    Regardless of the thread title, you were talking about sales. It's also funny how you looking at one quarter with some major Android launches is fine, but me looking at a quarter with an iPhone launch that will blow those launches out of the water is incredibly narrow. Is the Droid still the best Android launch? That launch matched, in fact slightly bettered the original iPhones launch? The original iPhone took 60 days (or was it 90) to hit a million devices. The 3GS took three days. They are orders of magnitude different. I guess that doesn't matter because the EVO is apparently going to change the world (4 hours at a time).

    ...

    Pretty good for one hardware vendor. If Apple was going for market share, they would license their OS, and make less money as a result.



    Why be selective like that with statistics? Why this reference to one phone? When it comes to things like Apps, it's the whole ecosystem that matters. After all, that's exactly what makes an iTouch as potent as an iPhone. So why does it matter if any Android does or does not outsell the iPhone? Sure, bragging rights are nice. But that hardly matters to me if the apps I want on a platform are not there.



    I think it's common sense that the if Android installed base beats out the iPhone OS installed base, that's where developers will go. The only reason they focus on the iPhone OS now is because it's the biggest market. Why would they stay if it's not the biggest market?
  • Reply 156 of 176
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    That's music though. As far as I understand, there's exceptions for specific functions right? I am not trying to troll here. I am genuinely interested in what isn't allowed in the background.



    But it's nice that music is allowed. I suspect 90% of users are like me. Music in the background, something else in the foreground being worked on.



    The multitasking APIs are:
    1. Background audio - Allows your app to play audio continuously. So customers can listen to your app while they surf the web, play games, and more.

    2. Voice over IP - Your VoIP apps can now be even better. Users can now receive VoIP calls and have conversations while using another app. Your users can even receive calls when their phones are locked in their pocket.

    3. Background location - Navigation apps can now continue to guide users who are listening to their iPods, or using other apps. iPhone OS 4 also provides a new and battery efficient way to monitor location when users move between cell towers. This is a great way for your social networking apps to keep track of users and their friends' locations.

    4. Push notifications - Receive alerts from your remote servers even when your app isn't running.

    5. Local notifications - Your app can now alert users of scheduled events and alarms in the background, no servers required.

    6. Task finishing - If your app is in mid-task when your customer leaves it, the app can now keep running to finish the task.

    7. Fast app switching - All developers should take advantage of this. This will allow users to leave your app and come right back to where they were when they left - no more having to reload the app.

    Taken together, they cover the most common reasons for multitasking apps. Audio, VOIP, location are probably the most requested tasks that people want to be able to leave running. Local notifications allow you to receive alerts that are not sever based (i.e. an incoming call from Skype) so you get a key benefit of them running in the background without them actually running. Task finishing and fast user switching will allow for the appearance of traditional background apps (though it isn't identical to what we are accustomed to on the desktop).



    Do they allow exactly the same type of multitask that we use on our desktop? Not exactly, but this isn't a desktop platform. I am always puzzled when people expect Apple should shoehorn a desktop experience into a mobile interface. They allow for the most common applications of multitasking without incurring all of the overhead that traditional app multitasking would have. Are there other areas that would benefit from additional multitasking APIs? Probably, but I can't actually think of any.
  • Reply 157 of 176
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    ... that hardly matters to me if the apps I want on a platform are not there.



    That's precisely why it matters.



    Please consider what I wrote before about the current and future state of the iPhone OS ecosystem:



    Teachers can't use Squeak, researchers and engineers can't use MatLab, analysts (and most of the statistics world, including sociologists, research psychologists, engineers, biologists, etc.) can't use R, nor can anyone use any other tool that relies on interpreted languages.



    Then add to that the many entire categories of apps that Apple is progressively shutting down from their new OS, such as the one which is the topic of this thread.



    Then consider the many vertical-market apps that rely on cross-platform frameworks to be cost-effective, specialized tools for a million business, medical, and other niches that will never be allowed on iPhone OS until Apple backpeddles on Section 3.3.1.



    Add all those together and that's several tens of millions of people; doctors, business owners, scientists, engineeers, professionals of all sorts who won't be able to do their work on iPhone OS - all choosing Android because Steve forced them to.



    You can dismiss these audiences if you like. Enjoy your movies. But note that the business and science communities have needs for apps and modern app development workflows that Apple won't let them use on iPhone OS.



    You will begin to see the effects of this within a year, and within three years the damage to the iPhone ecosystem will be irreversible.
  • Reply 158 of 176
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    I think it's common sense that the if Android installed base beats out the iPhone OS installed base, that's where developers will go. The only reason they focus on the iPhone OS now is because it's the biggest market. Why would they stay if it's not the biggest market?



    A larger Android market might mean devs also going into that area, but it doesn't necessarily mean they will leave the iPhone market. Between iPhones, iPod and iPads, Android will have to sell a whole lot of phones (and eventually tablets) to surpass the overall size of the current iPhone installed base. And while Android seems to be picking up steam, Apple could stop selling all of their iDevices and still maintain a sizable lead over the total Android market for sometime.



    Why would they stay? Beyond the size of the already huge installed base (and growing) and that Android would have have to sell a shit load to not just over take iDevice sales but the existing base, there is the quality of the target audience. Apple's base is consistently upscale, educated consumers with a higher than average amount of expendable cash who have shown a willingness to spend on Apple products and the App Store.



    Apple has made some discouraging moves with the platform. But at the same time, they have created a wonderful ecosystem that the majority of devs and users enjoy and benefit from. There are certainly warts, regardless of those that want to write anything negative off as whining, but the good vastly outweighs the bad.
  • Reply 159 of 176
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by depannist View Post


    The problem is, to date, the Apple AppStore is still the most profitable place for a developer to be.



    For now. 3 years online Symbian app stores were the ones making money. There's no guarantee Apple will lead forever. There are some policies they need to change to maintain their lead.



    They should be nice to developers. I will admit, that as long as the AppStore is the most profitable they can afford to dick developers around. However, I don't know if it's a good idea to build up animosity in your partners who are simply looking for an excuse and a viable option to exit the relationship.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post


    My prediction is that the iPhone will allow Apple to jump back into the lead for 60-90 days if they stick to only ATT and then get hammered from then on.



    Adroid hardware and OS will rev faster than Apple can, because you have many more players on the Android side.



    If they open the iPhone up to Verizon then they maybe able to fend off Android for a while longer. However they still will only have 1 phone on two networks.



    Apple has been rising over the last 5 years and iPhone was a leap ahead of the other sleeping competitors but those days are over. Google and even MS are back in the game. The iPad will enjoy a much shorter grace period before the flood of tablets from the others crash down.



    +1



    iPad aside....



    While it's not 2012 (with Android taking over). It's not 2007 either. Back then the option was between a terrible Windows Mobile phone, marginally better Palm Treo, a Sony Ericsson UIQ handset or a top of the game Nokia Symbian handset. None were even moderately close to the iPhone in user experience. However, that's not the case today. They've all advanced leaps and bounds. Or they are simply making way for more advanced platforms (no more UIQ or WinMo, Android and WinPho coming along).



    I agree though, that what Apple does in the US and specifically with its restriction to one carrier is going to be the determining factor for a while to come. If there's no Verizon iPhone this year then 2010 might just be the year that Android beats the iPhone in full year sales.
  • Reply 160 of 176
    asianbobasianbob Posts: 797member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by capoeira4u View Post


    I don't get. Could someone pls define what is a widget exactly? How's it different from an app?



    An app is pretty much what you would think of. An application that runs when you tap on the icon. It's similar to double-clicking on a shortcut on your Windows/Mac desktop and being taken to that program. Pretty much all items on the iPhone/iPod/iPad are apps. All the user sees is a static image for the app.



    To be really simple, a widget is an app that has another, more..."active", if you will, layer that sits on the desktop. It's essentially an simple app that runs in its own window on the desktop.



    On Android, there are, in general, two kinds of widgets. The first kind can display up-to-date stocks, weather, news headlines, etc. Information that the widget's app was designed to pull from the internet is automatically pushed to the widget display on the desktop without the user having to do anything. But there can also be buttons so the user can interact with it (refresh, show next/last screen, etc).



    The other kind on Android is the simpler toggle widget. Those are generally used to control items like WiFi, the radio, and screen brightness. Instead of having to dig through the settings menu, it sits right there on the screen. All you have to do is tap it like any other icon and it'll toggle through the settings for whatever it's controlling.
Sign In or Register to comment.