Apple unveils redesigned, thinner iPhone 4 with two cameras

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  • Reply 301 of 507
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I think what a lot of us had said was that those features weren't that important to most users, but that some people would want them. I said in the beginning, as did many others, that Flash should be on the phone IF it were normally off, but a tap would turn it on when wanted (IF wanted).



    As far as flash with a camera phone, well, it's marginally useful. I would have preferred if Apple used two diodes. One, even if it is the Phillips one, isn't terribly strong. I would really have loved to see a ring flash using several.



    Multitasking, which we're not getting, would be a problem still.



    I've now used copy/paste about three times since it came out. Useful, but marginal for most people.



    you are right dude i hardly looking for multitasking or flash for the cam i just want a solid well design phone and to be honest i dont mind the annual upgrade of hardware with these data plans about i cant upgrade ever year



    i cant handle changing my phone ever 6mths just to get 1 major sw upgrade
  • Reply 302 of 507
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,544member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post


    everything is simple and full of clues with you sir. Do you mean to say Apple signed a four year deal with Cingular back in 2007 and have been helplessly stuck with them ever since?



    I know some people like to simplify a complex issue. Contracts can be complex issues.



    Before Apple had the iPhone, and went shopping it around, AT&T responded well. Supposedly, according to legend, Verizon did not.



    AT&T said that they agreed to have the phone, and what Apple wanted, without having seen even a mockup. Having had two businesses, I can say that that's unusual. AT&T was taking a chance on Apple. If it were a flop, AT&T would have suffered as well, because they spent money reworking their mail and database software for Visual Voicemail. They spent millions on reworking their stores. Plus advertising, etc.



    Obviously, for the risk, AT&T wanted a reward. That reward would be a fairly long contract to lock the phone in so that they would benefit if it did well.



    It did much better than anyone expected.



    In these contracts, many things are spelled out. Completion dates must be adhered to, so thats why Apple removed developers from OS X to get the phone out on time. There could be performance related language in there as well. But, without seeing the contract, and its revisions, we'll never know exactly what.



    But barring anything drastic, a contract runs out when it's finished. The parties can negotiate an extension, and the rules could be different.



    But we won't know, will we?
  • Reply 303 of 507
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,544member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    Not looking for an argument but this make absolutely no sense.



    It does, if you understand it.



    What don't you understand about it? You don't understand that all pixels are composed of at least three different colors? Or you don't understand what gamut means?
  • Reply 304 of 507
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I'm not a programmer any more, but there are ways of binding a device. I can't say how, exactly, but it has to do with passwording the system. On a consumer device, no. I read an article in the EETimes about that some time ago.



    The problem was that people were setting up their own private wifi networks which Apple would have no control over. Attendees were not sharing the wifi router or the bandwidth that Apple was using. It's just with that many wifis in such close proximity there was a lot of interference. I'm sure many other people were also having trouble connecting too, unless their wifi access point was in their pocket connected to the Internet by 3G on Sprint or Verizon. The AT&T bandwidth was probably maxed out. It sure was last year.
  • Reply 305 of 507
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post


    I expanded on my answer to make my position more clear. Please read what I wrote and reconsider your very rude answer. We are all Apple fans here and there is no need for name calling. Grow up.



    I consider myself to by an AppleFannie, an iPhoney, and an iPoddie.... But I draw the line with the iPad



    .
  • Reply 306 of 507
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    It does, if you understand it.



    What don't you understand about it? You don't understand that all pixels are composed of at least three different colors? Or you don't understand what gamut means?



    No it was your apparent lack of understanding of these things that was making your comments nonsensical.
  • Reply 307 of 507
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,544member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    No it was your apparent lack of understanding of these things that was making your comments nonsensical.



    Really? So then, explain them to me.
  • Reply 308 of 507
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,544member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    The problem was that people were setting up their own private wifi networks which Apple would have no control over. Attendees were not sharing the wifi router or the bandwidth that Apple was using. It's just with that many wifis in such close proximity there was a lot of interference. I'm sure many other people were also having trouble connecting too, unless their wifi access point was in their pocket connected to the Internet by 3G on Sprint or Verizon. The AT&T bandwidth was probably maxed out. It sure was last year.



    Well, that makes sense. Some said that they were sitting on their mids.
  • Reply 309 of 507
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


    No offence but this sounds like "hooey" to me (... the mind interprets colours outside of the rgb colour gamut ...).



    It's a fact that the average human eye can detect something quite a bit *less* than 16 million distinct colour values. You are right that it's impossible to accurately compare the eye to a camera or a display, but wrong to imply that the eye is the superlative of the two.



    Eyes, (human eyes), don't actually discern that well at all and a display that can accurately portray 16 million+ colours with no pixillation is about as good as you will get.



    When I go outside and look up at the sky, I never see any banding, but in many 24 bit digital photos, the sky shows banding because there aren't enough pixels on the screen to cover the colors required to reproduce the image accurately.
  • Reply 310 of 507
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    The noise cancellation microphones are a great addition. I have that on my Nexus One. You don't notice it until you use it. You're talking in a noisy place and then you notice your not yelling into the phone. You just converse.



    Great idea they copied. Every phone should have it.
  • Reply 311 of 507
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Generally, cameras and camcorders have a certain amount of resolution that customers expect to be their quality level at all times. When using optical zoom, assuming that zoom to be of good quality, that expectation is realized.



    But when moving to digital zoom, which I call digital cropping, that's no longer true. If you have a camera with a resolution sensor that you bought because of that resolution, AND you use that resolution correctly, then you will notice a big drop in quality when using digital zoom. Of course, because it removes the outer pixels when zooming. The more you zoom, the fewer pixels are left for the picture.



    If you're going to use the still images from a phone for let's say, Facebook, then the digital zoom will be great. Those pictures are of low quality and resolution, so you won't see the difference. But if you want to make an 8 x 10 print, that's different. There will be problems when you zoom out too much.



    Camcorders are different. The amount of resolution you get is what the sensor offers, usually. Some camcorders do have higher rez sensors, but you can't use them that way for reasons I won't get into now. But what normally happens is that as soon as you activate the digital zoom, you're going below the resolution of the format. So if you have, say, a 720p camcorder, you will have a 1280 x 720 sensor (likely, you won't. The 720 will be there, but you may have 1024 x 720 at the sensor.).



    Now, because your resolution is what the format needs, when you digitally zoom in, you're removing those needed pixels. So you move down in quality from the very beginning. You may end up with 480 x 270 or so, possibly even lower. This results in a pixelated image. Very unpleasant.



    But a camera with a higher resolution sensor should have pixels to spare. So when you use that digital zoom, you're still within the proper resolution for the format, unless the digital zoom moves past the point where you're at the minimum.



    If the sensor is pretty small, and has poor noise and dynamic range, as phone sensors do, IF, and I say if, because it isn't always true, the manufacturer properly binns the pixels at the low end of the zoom, at 1x, then you could get great noise and dynamic range. If they don't do it properly, then you won't. Pixel binning is a technique where the extra pixels are averaged together and the noise can be removed to a certain extent, and dynamic range increased. It's sort of a reverse interpolation. In other words, you're interpolating the image to a lower res output. Some manufacturers just add the pixels together without doing any work to work the noise out, so there's little benefit.



    When you begin to zoom out, there are fewer pixels to binn together, so noise increases. This isn't too much of a problem with video as opposed to stills, because we don't notice noise as much with moving images as we do with static ones.



    Because of that, this video camera COULD have a very good image because of the backlit sensor, which has better sensitivity and less noise from the start. That is, if Apple is doing it all right, including the software in the phone.



    Claro! Entiendo! Gracias!



    .
  • Reply 312 of 507
    And the real question is.........



    ..........how long before a revision that immediately makes this "revolutionary device" old tech?



    I'm hesitant to upgrade. Almost immediately after I purchased my 3G november of nearly 2 years ago, the 3GS came out. I'm eligible for early upgrade in July. I just get the feeling a new one will be out in less than 6 months time after that.



    So come on apple professionals. What's the usual clock on this?
  • Reply 313 of 507
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,544member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by harleighquinn View Post


    And the real question is.........



    ..........how long before a revision that immediately makes this "revolutionary device" old tech?



    I'm hesitant to upgrade. Almost immediately after I purchased my 3G november of nearly 2 years ago, the 3GS came out. I'm eligible for early upgrade in July. I just get the feeling a new one will be out in less than 6 months time after that.



    So come on apple professionals. What's the usual clock on this?



    So far, Apple has come out with a new phone model, and OS upgrade, at this time of year, June, to early July.



    So if you buy the phone as soon as it comes out, you will have a year before the next model is due, assuming Apple doesn't change the schedule, which is something only they would know, but it's doubtful.
  • Reply 314 of 507
    augustwestaugustwest Posts: 157member
    I have the 3g and a dying battery, so clearly "4" is 4 me...however I will also post my somewhat obvious observations:

    1. Clearly the "4" seems naked in it's name. Sets up a 4G in 364 days, works on verizon 4g network, timed to hit at expiration of AT&T contract.64 gb storage standard

    2. 4GS 1 year later - processor bump, extra goodies, better battery, etc

    3. iPhone 5 1 year later...Perhaps with a small vapor emitting port to permit chatting via full size HD 3d avatars.



    I like the way iPhone is headed but would like to put in a plug for us amateur photographers- what about some more camera-like features, like true optical zoom, better lens optics, aperture/shutter speeds? What about a pro camera lens attachment kit that gives you a great lens and all the basic camera functions in a "back" of some sort.



    Ok I'm a dreamer, but hey, the merging of phone and camera has already begun!
  • Reply 315 of 507
    nanoakronnanoakron Posts: 126member
    Can I just change the mood and possibly direction of the thread slightly and say a big YAY for UK English dictionary support (for British English speakers)!



    http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html
  • Reply 316 of 507
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,544member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AugustWest View Post


    I have the 3g and a dying battery, so clearly "4" is 4 me...however I will also post my somewhat obvious observations:

    1. Clearly the "4" seems naked in it's name. Sets up a 4G in 364 days, works on verizon 4g network, timed to hit at expiration of AT&T contract.64 gb storage standard

    2. 4GS 1 year later - processor bump, extra goodies, better battery, etc

    3. iPhone 5 1 year later...Perhaps with a small vapor emitting port to permit chatting via full size HD 3d avatars.



    I like the way iPhone is headed but would like to put in a plug for us amateur photographers- what about some more camera-like features, like true optical zoom, better lens optics, aperture/shutter speeds? What about a pro camera lens attachment kit that gives you a great lens and all the basic camera functions in a "back" of some sort.



    Ok I'm a dreamer, but hey, the merging of phone and camera has already begun!



    I'd like to see a 3:1 optical zoom and image Stabilization, along with a stronger flash.
  • Reply 317 of 507
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,544member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NanoAkron View Post


    Can I just change the mood and possibly direction of the thread slightly and say a big YAY for UK English dictionary support (for British English speakers)!



    http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html



    Yes, you can!



    Oh, you already did.
  • Reply 318 of 507
    dick applebaumdick applebaum Posts: 12,527member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by harleighquinn View Post


    And the real question is.........



    ..........how long before a revision that immediately makes this "revolutionary device" old tech?



    I'm hesitant to upgrade. Almost immediately after I purchased my 3G november of nearly 2 years ago, the 3GS came out. I'm eligible for early upgrade in July. I just get the feeling a new one will be out in less than 6 months time after that.



    So come on apple professionals. What's the usual clock on this?



    Kinda' like every 12 months == new iPhone model.



    Get a significant other involved so you can stagger 2-year commitment plans.



    We have 5 iPhones, with 2 activated, the others are used as sim-less iPods.



    My daughter has a 2 year old 3G, I have a 1 year old 3GS. I will get a 4.0, my daughter will get the 3GS, and a grandkid will get the 3G sim-less.



    .
  • Reply 319 of 507
    I'm definitely excited about all the features in the iPhone 4, but I really like the iMovie feature and its capabilities.
  • Reply 320 of 507
    augustwestaugustwest Posts: 157member
    That depends...how do you say "hijacked" in Brittish?



    Just kiddin, no worries from me, and glad to hear you are happy with the new dictionary!
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