I feel that Apple has to do this in order to compete fully with Android. Android is available on all the major US carriers and from many different vendors. Apple will always be the sole provider of the iPhone but in the US, they will need to branch out to other carriers to stay competitive. they have to in order to grow their phone share. It'll convince the developers of apps to stay betting on the winning horse.
You can get away with that because all of the networks in the UK (and Europe) use the same frequencies and encoding so that one radio will work with all of them. Once you're connected to the carrier's network, the SIMM card provides authentication so that you can use a particular network.
In the U.S. (and China, I believe), there are two completely unrelated formats. CDMA and GSM. A CDMA radio won't work with GSM network and vice versa. The current iPhone is GSM which means it works with any GSM network anywhere in the world - which covers much of the world. But it is incapable of accessing a DCMA network. This rumor says that they're building a different iPhone using a different radio chip so that it will work with CDMA. In theory, it is possible to have BOTH GSM and CDMA chips in a single device, but that's not generally done, at least in the U.S.
Thanks for the explanation. Next question, what are the chances European MNOs will ever adopt CDMA technology? Or is GSM already equivalent if not superior?
As stated before, CDMA phones could well be for China, but if they are going to be producing CDMA iPhones, they may as well sell them on Verizon and Sprint in the US as well. September is the usual time for iPod updates, maybe his "One more thing.." there would be announcing new carriers for the iPhone. Never know, but this rumor is getting old. It either needs to have something come of it or stop coming up.
Thanks for the explanation. Next question, what are the chances European MNOs will ever adopt CDMA technology? Or is GSM already equivalent if not superior?
CDMA has no significant advantages. It's often slower than GSM and you can't browse the net or text while talking on the phone (although that might just be Verizon's implementation).
Anyone looking to upgrade their network will be looking at 4G technologies - not CDMA or GSM.
CDMA itself is capable of voice + data, at least with EVDO Rev. A. Verizon and Sprint just chose not to implement it. However, you can do vocie and data at the same time if you are in a WiFi hotspot, so FaceTime would still work as advertised. I wouldn't hold my breath on this though, they've been saying this stuff since the original first was announced in 2007.
I am by no means an expert here, but I think you are missing a key point. CDMA is a cellular radio and my understanding is that it is indeed physically limited to only being capable of voice or data and cannot handle both simultaneously. This however is completely different from a WiFi hotspot that uses a completely different IP based technology. Being able to handle voice and data simultaneously on WiFi is simple enough since TCP/IP is designed to be able to communicate on multiple ports at the same time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pembroke
Here in the UK, as far as I know, an iPhone is an iPhone is an iPhone. That is, any iPhone will run on any of our networks - O2, Orange, Vodaphone. All you need is the requisite SIMM card for a particular network. I don't think the phones are manufactured to a particular mobile network brand. We use 3G networks here. Are they superior to what AT&T and Verizon's CDMA have to offer?
You are correct in that an iPhone is an iPhone. Currently Apple only makes "one" iPhone and it supports several GSM frequencies. Since all of the European networks use one of these supported GSM frequencies you can easily support multiple providers with a single phone. The problem here in the states is that Verizon is still running on an older CDMA network, and this is completely different kind of radio from GSM and hence no Verizon capable iPhone to date.
I have no idea on comparing the UK networks to those carriers here in the US.
I wonder if this rumor was started by Verizon to try to keep their customers from defecting to ATT?
I seriously doubt it. I think this rumor has been persistent mainly due to individual hopes and dreams of a Verizon iPhone. I think this time could be the real deal too and someone else hit on the why... ATT is letting some customers who still have up to a full year on their current contract upgrade to the iPhone 4. Why? Possibly to lock them into a new 2 year commitment before the iPhone is available on Verizon? Seems like a pretty smart move on their part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pembroke
Thanks for the explanation. Next question, what are the chances European MNOs will ever adopt CDMA technology? Or is GSM already equivalent if not superior?
No. The next step will be forward, not back. The 4G (LTE) networks are going to be the next step both in the US and Europe. CDMA was a great technology in it's day, but that was 10 years ago. Now CDMA is an aging dinosaur that will slowly fade away.
Any iPhone Apple makes for Verizon will have CDMA somewhere. Verizon's LTE network won't be 100% implemented until sometime in the next two years or so. It doesn't make sense for Apple to make a phone and then sell it on the premise that it works on Verizon, but only if you have LTE. It has to fall back on something when that signal isn't around.
I would switch to Verizon if they offer the exact same pricing as AT&T (not charging $2.99 for visual voicemail) and their network is proven to be reliable after the iPhone gets entrenched in their network.
I like this rumor. But I can't help but wonder why someone can't go to China and find an employee who can confirm this story? It would seem like an obvious thing to do. That's better than bar hopping and waiting for some Apple employee to leave his CMDA iPhone on a stool.
I am by no means an expert here, but I think you are missing a key point. CDMA is a cellular radio and my understanding is that it is indeed physically limited to only being capable of voice or data and cannot handle both simultaneously. This however is completely different from a WiFi hotspot that uses a completely different IP based technology. Being able to handle voice and data simultaneously on WiFi is simple enough since TCP/IP is designed to be able to communicate on multiple ports at the same time.
You are correct in that an iPhone is an iPhone. Currently Apple only makes "one" iPhone and it supports several GSM frequencies. Since all of the European networks use one of these supported GSM frequencies you can easily support multiple providers with a single phone. The problem here in the states is that Verizon is still running on an older CDMA network, and this is completely different kind of radio from GSM and hence no Verizon capable iPhone to date.
I have no idea on comparing the UK networks to those carriers here in the US.
I seriously doubt it. I think this rumor has been persistent mainly due to individual hopes and dreams of a Verizon iPhone. I think this time could be the real deal too and someone else hit on the why... ATT is letting some customers who still have up to a full year on their current contract upgrade to the iPhone 4. Why? Possibly to lock them into a new 2 year commitment before the iPhone is available on Verizon? Seems like a pretty smart move on their part.
No. The next step will be forward, not back. The 4G (LTE) networks are going to be the next step both in the US and Europe. CDMA was a great technology in it's day, but that was 10 years ago. Now CDMA is an aging dinosaur that will slowly fade away.
You do understand that both AT&T and Verizon will still have to support both their legacy networks when they bring out LTE.
You know, China; the country with more cellphone customers than the entire population of the US and Canada combined. Serious money to be made...
Umm?exactly how do you know that? Did you not read the headline and article? So let me get this straight?Apple is going to produce a CDMA iPhone just for China when the iPhone has lukewarm sales there and they have knockoffs that are a third the price?
When it comes to trusting you or the WSJ, I'll trust the WSJ.
So my understanding of CDMA technology is that it can not handle voice and data at the same time. This goes against a lot of the multitasking functionality of the iphones. Additionally. Doesn't facetime use 3G voice + data (wifi for now, 3g later) to make a video call? This doesn't seem technically possible on CDMA.
While generally true, there was an update to the CDMA spec about a year ago that would allow simultaneous voice and data. If I recall correctly, the carrier hardware was essentially just a card swap at the cell towers and the hardware was supposed to be available this summer. Also, you'd need an updated handset to support the new standard as well.
Obviously, it's not as simple as that sounds, but it is possible. The question is whether Verizon and Apple have made the deal to implement the new spec on Verizon's network.
Next question, what are the chances European MNOs will ever adopt CDMA technology?
The chances are exactly zero.
There was an HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray (or Betamax vs. VHS) shootout between CDMA and GSM for the next generation of cellular data technology, and CDMA lost. Qualcomm, the CDMA technology owner, has discontinued further development.
As a result Verizon has already announced that it's moving away from CDMA to LTE (Long Term Evolution), the next iteration of GSM. AT&T will be doing the same thing. LTE is backward compatible with GSM, so if you could buy an LTE handset today it would be usable on existing GSM networks.
Quote:
Or is GSM already equivalent if not superior?
As usual there are pros and cons. (For instance CDMA requires fewer cell towers for equivalent area coverage.) But it no longer matters: GSM/LTE won, CDMA lost.
I too will believe this when I see it. This is probably just another attempt to manipulate the stock for a quick profit, which by the way is the real purpose of this and other rumor sites in the first place.
To make a rumor believable, you must have good timing. Now that a record number of people have just "pulled the trigger" and ordered iPhones and now that ATT has raised their cancellation fee, a vPhone kinda sounds believable now.
As far as the data and voice at the same time argument, you must understand that if you live and work in an area with poor ATT coverage, a CDMA vPhone wouldn't be such a terrible compromise. As Steve Jobs once said, "The Killer app is making calls." You can't make calls without coverage. Verizon has it, ATT has it sometimes.
I watched the deleted footage from the keynote where the heckler shouted "verizon!" And Steve heard it too. He's no fool and he knows there is an appetite for a vPhone. And since I believe he wants to see an iPhone in every pocket, he knows what he has to do. I can only assume Verizon wont bend on some money issue, like the Beatles on iTunes.
Bottom line? When we see people jumping off the roof at Pegatron Technology's factory, we will know that Apple is there.
If this is true, Android will not know what hit them. Let's be honest here, the iPhone is THE aspirational smart phone. Most people who buy Android phones are "if only" buyers. If only AT&T didn't suck where I live. If only the iPhone were offered by Verizon.
And if Verizon finds a way to deploy Facetime over 3G then AT&T is in for a knock-down drag-out fight.
In the timeframe of smartphones that have chips that have gone from roughly 400 mhz to soon to be dual core 1.2 snapdragon type processors or at a minimum 1 ghz A4 chips, and have gone from 480x320 to quadruple that, is it really so hard to believe or find someone who could create a chip that would cover both types of technology for cell reception?
Verizon has a solid voice service, the call stability is great as well as the data... Though in my area and everywhere I happen to go AT&T is great too.
Currently Verizon users can't browse the web over 3g or 2g and talk on the phone at the same time. Not a day goes by that I don't do both of those things at the same time.
It is a problem that will always prevent me from going to a CDMA carrier until somehow it can be overcome.
Comments
You can get away with that because all of the networks in the UK (and Europe) use the same frequencies and encoding so that one radio will work with all of them. Once you're connected to the carrier's network, the SIMM card provides authentication so that you can use a particular network.
In the U.S. (and China, I believe), there are two completely unrelated formats. CDMA and GSM. A CDMA radio won't work with GSM network and vice versa. The current iPhone is GSM which means it works with any GSM network anywhere in the world - which covers much of the world. But it is incapable of accessing a DCMA network. This rumor says that they're building a different iPhone using a different radio chip so that it will work with CDMA. In theory, it is possible to have BOTH GSM and CDMA chips in a single device, but that's not generally done, at least in the U.S.
Thanks for the explanation. Next question, what are the chances European MNOs will ever adopt CDMA technology? Or is GSM already equivalent if not superior?
Thanks for the explanation. Next question, what are the chances European MNOs will ever adopt CDMA technology? Or is GSM already equivalent if not superior?
CDMA has no significant advantages. It's often slower than GSM and you can't browse the net or text while talking on the phone (although that might just be Verizon's implementation).
Anyone looking to upgrade their network will be looking at 4G technologies - not CDMA or GSM.
CDMA itself is capable of voice + data, at least with EVDO Rev. A. Verizon and Sprint just chose not to implement it. However, you can do vocie and data at the same time if you are in a WiFi hotspot, so FaceTime would still work as advertised. I wouldn't hold my breath on this though, they've been saying this stuff since the original first was announced in 2007.
I am by no means an expert here, but I think you are missing a key point. CDMA is a cellular radio and my understanding is that it is indeed physically limited to only being capable of voice or data and cannot handle both simultaneously. This however is completely different from a WiFi hotspot that uses a completely different IP based technology. Being able to handle voice and data simultaneously on WiFi is simple enough since TCP/IP is designed to be able to communicate on multiple ports at the same time.
Here in the UK, as far as I know, an iPhone is an iPhone is an iPhone. That is, any iPhone will run on any of our networks - O2, Orange, Vodaphone. All you need is the requisite SIMM card for a particular network. I don't think the phones are manufactured to a particular mobile network brand. We use 3G networks here. Are they superior to what AT&T and Verizon's CDMA have to offer?
You are correct in that an iPhone is an iPhone. Currently Apple only makes "one" iPhone and it supports several GSM frequencies. Since all of the European networks use one of these supported GSM frequencies you can easily support multiple providers with a single phone. The problem here in the states is that Verizon is still running on an older CDMA network, and this is completely different kind of radio from GSM and hence no Verizon capable iPhone to date.
I have no idea on comparing the UK networks to those carriers here in the US.
I wonder if this rumor was started by Verizon to try to keep their customers from defecting to ATT?
I seriously doubt it. I think this rumor has been persistent mainly due to individual hopes and dreams of a Verizon iPhone. I think this time could be the real deal too and someone else hit on the why... ATT is letting some customers who still have up to a full year on their current contract upgrade to the iPhone 4. Why? Possibly to lock them into a new 2 year commitment before the iPhone is available on Verizon? Seems like a pretty smart move on their part.
Thanks for the explanation. Next question, what are the chances European MNOs will ever adopt CDMA technology? Or is GSM already equivalent if not superior?
No. The next step will be forward, not back. The 4G (LTE) networks are going to be the next step both in the US and Europe. CDMA was a great technology in it's day, but that was 10 years ago. Now CDMA is an aging dinosaur that will slowly fade away.
I would switch to Verizon if they offer the exact same pricing as AT&T (not charging $2.99 for visual voicemail) and their network is proven to be reliable after the iPhone gets entrenched in their network.
I am by no means an expert here, but I think you are missing a key point. CDMA is a cellular radio and my understanding is that it is indeed physically limited to only being capable of voice or data and cannot handle both simultaneously. This however is completely different from a WiFi hotspot that uses a completely different IP based technology. Being able to handle voice and data simultaneously on WiFi is simple enough since TCP/IP is designed to be able to communicate on multiple ports at the same time.
You are correct in that an iPhone is an iPhone. Currently Apple only makes "one" iPhone and it supports several GSM frequencies. Since all of the European networks use one of these supported GSM frequencies you can easily support multiple providers with a single phone. The problem here in the states is that Verizon is still running on an older CDMA network, and this is completely different kind of radio from GSM and hence no Verizon capable iPhone to date.
I have no idea on comparing the UK networks to those carriers here in the US.
please explain to me why their network is "older"
I seriously doubt it. I think this rumor has been persistent mainly due to individual hopes and dreams of a Verizon iPhone. I think this time could be the real deal too and someone else hit on the why... ATT is letting some customers who still have up to a full year on their current contract upgrade to the iPhone 4. Why? Possibly to lock them into a new 2 year commitment before the iPhone is available on Verizon? Seems like a pretty smart move on their part.
No. The next step will be forward, not back. The 4G (LTE) networks are going to be the next step both in the US and Europe. CDMA was a great technology in it's day, but that was 10 years ago. Now CDMA is an aging dinosaur that will slowly fade away.
You do understand that both AT&T and Verizon will still have to support both their legacy networks when they bring out LTE.
Jeez...
CDMA iPhones are for China, NOT Verizon.
You know, China; the country with more cellphone customers than the entire population of the US and Canada combined. Serious money to be made...
Umm?exactly how do you know that? Did you not read the headline and article? So let me get this straight?Apple is going to produce a CDMA iPhone just for China when the iPhone has lukewarm sales there and they have knockoffs that are a third the price?
When it comes to trusting you or the WSJ, I'll trust the WSJ.
So my understanding of CDMA technology is that it can not handle voice and data at the same time. This goes against a lot of the multitasking functionality of the iphones. Additionally. Doesn't facetime use 3G voice + data (wifi for now, 3g later) to make a video call? This doesn't seem technically possible on CDMA.
While generally true, there was an update to the CDMA spec about a year ago that would allow simultaneous voice and data. If I recall correctly, the carrier hardware was essentially just a card swap at the cell towers and the hardware was supposed to be available this summer. Also, you'd need an updated handset to support the new standard as well.
Obviously, it's not as simple as that sounds, but it is possible. The question is whether Verizon and Apple have made the deal to implement the new spec on Verizon's network.
Next question, what are the chances European MNOs will ever adopt CDMA technology?
The chances are exactly zero.
There was an HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray (or Betamax vs. VHS) shootout between CDMA and GSM for the next generation of cellular data technology, and CDMA lost. Qualcomm, the CDMA technology owner, has discontinued further development.
As a result Verizon has already announced that it's moving away from CDMA to LTE (Long Term Evolution), the next iteration of GSM. AT&T will be doing the same thing. LTE is backward compatible with GSM, so if you could buy an LTE handset today it would be usable on existing GSM networks.
Or is GSM already equivalent if not superior?
As usual there are pros and cons. (For instance CDMA requires fewer cell towers for equivalent area coverage.) But it no longer matters: GSM/LTE won, CDMA lost.
To make a rumor believable, you must have good timing. Now that a record number of people have just "pulled the trigger" and ordered iPhones and now that ATT has raised their cancellation fee, a vPhone kinda sounds believable now.
As far as the data and voice at the same time argument, you must understand that if you live and work in an area with poor ATT coverage, a CDMA vPhone wouldn't be such a terrible compromise. As Steve Jobs once said, "The Killer app is making calls." You can't make calls without coverage. Verizon has it, ATT has it sometimes.
I watched the deleted footage from the keynote where the heckler shouted "verizon!" And Steve heard it too. He's no fool and he knows there is an appetite for a vPhone. And since I believe he wants to see an iPhone in every pocket, he knows what he has to do. I can only assume Verizon wont bend on some money issue, like the Beatles on iTunes.
Bottom line? When we see people jumping off the roof at Pegatron Technology's factory, we will know that Apple is there.
And if Verizon finds a way to deploy Facetime over 3G then AT&T is in for a knock-down drag-out fight.
Currently Verizon users can't browse the web over 3g or 2g and talk on the phone at the same time. Not a day goes by that I don't do both of those things at the same time.
It is a problem that will always prevent me from going to a CDMA carrier until somehow it can be overcome.