2 simple, easy, basic questions for you before I choose to ignore you completely -
1. Do you have an iPhone 4?
2. Are you able to reproduce this issue yourself?
If you answer no to either of these - just get the fuck off this new bandwagon.
Thanks.
As soon as they release a patch to "fix" the signal strength "bars" as they did 2 years ago with the 3G all will be fine. It's the appearance of few or no "bars" that has people crazy. Last night I had seemingly no signal at my home where I have always had full strength. My wife's 3G had all 5 bars. I called her and she called me. Perfect reception. I have tried for 3 days now to recreate the situation that people are crazy about and cannot do it.
I had my first "cellular" phone during the initial Chicago test market in 1986 and have used every type of phone and carrier since then. There is absolutely no difference in the reception between my 3G and my new iPhone 4.
Not sure how a software patch will resolve the problem, seems it is a hardware, or physical part of the phone, which reacts when 'touched', bit like touching an indoor aerial on your TV makes the picture go snowy.
It sound like a material problem, conductive.
Maybe the handset will have to be trashed and remade with alternative materials. The iPhone 4 is this year's puck mouse !
Of course you could hold the puck mouse when using it, and it would still work.
The reason this issue isn't apparent on all phones is because it only affects phones that are receiving a moderate-to-weak signal in the first place. Testing shows that covering the antenna gap reduces the signal by over 20db (a 20db loss means you're only getting 1/100th of the signal). If you have a moderate-to-strong signal to start with then a 20db loss means you still have a sufficient signal to maintain a connection. If you're like me, where at home I have 2-4 bars of signal, touching the gap results in a total loss of data and voice, and eventually "No Service". I've had 6 previous iPhones (3 3Gs and 3 3GSs) and I never had a problem. Now, holding the phone the way I naturally do (and my wife & daughter), I cannot use any of the 3 iPhone 4s in this house. Unless of course I hold it in a way where my fingers & hand do not touch the lower left corner -- an awkward way for sure. Just look at how THESE people are holding the phone, Mr. Jobs included:
If you hold the phone like this in MY house you lose your cellular connection, but NONE of my previous iPhones did. Does anyone really think this is NOT a problem?
Edit: Just noticed that in all the pictures in that link, not one is showing a screen where the signal bars are present. Wonder if that was a conscious decision?
While my opinion is that a law suit is premature at this point - and regardless of the root cause or steps that resulted in this - the perception of a problem may be enough to significantly impact the future sales figures of the unit - and the Apple Board and or Stockholders - should be the ones calling a meeting with Steve and the iPhone design team to determine a solution to the problem - not a marketing campaign on why it is not a real problem.
I think Steve has more decision power within Apple than you realize.
In order for Apple to keep him and have him be happy to be there, he gets a huge amount of control. And, if he advises the board on a certain course of action, such as "it's not an issue, we just need to educate users on how to use the phone correctly", then they will likely let him make the call...for now. Of course if this issue gets bigger, then they may have to reevaluate the plan.
I'm against lawsuits too, and would almost certainly never join a class action suit. But seriously, how is it that a company as successful as Apple can sell a product so utterly dysfunctional. It's called an iPhone - it should work as a phone!
As soon as they release a patch to "fix" the signal strength "bars" as they did 2 years ago with the 3G all will be fine. It's the appearance of few or no "bars" that has people crazy.
I think that's part of the problem, but when the phone drops calls or will not make calls, then there is a bigger problem than just however many bars are showing on the screen.
... I've got a picture, I kid you not, that I took of a sticker on a vending machine noting that if you try to bang it back and forth it might tip over on you. ...
About a dozen people are killed each year in the US by tipping vending machines over on top themselves. A sticker that warns of this doesn't really seem unwarranted. Consider it a public service announcement.
What a bunch of moaning pricks. If it aint working for you then take it back. Better that than looking for a handout. Scamming bastards the lot of them.
In the UK there is a 14 day return period where you can cancel the contract and return the handset. You will only be charged for any usage.
In the USA on AT&T you can cancel the contract within 3 days with no extra fees or within 30 days and you only have to pay the activation fee plus any usage. No excuses to stay with the phone if it does not work for you. No reason to go suing anyone for profit. They should change the law to make these solicitor firms put up a bond to cover court fees if they are unsuccessful. A 10 million dollar bond should keep the shysters out of the courts.
I doubt the return fee. I've returned a Shuffle that was won at a Christmas party with acopy of the receipt from Apple on line listing 10 or so shuffles and an iTouch I bought that would no work on my wi-fi but worked okay in the store. No restocking fee.
That's. What I was about to say... It's been 1 freaking week. Those attorneys should be charged with malpractice!!!
During that week the company's chairman and CEO has denied in writing that there is a problem, and the company has sent written instructions to its store employees describing specifically how they should deny there is a problem when faced with customer complaints.
What exactly do you imagine would change, and how many weeks would you give it?
Hey, everyone who bought an iPhone 4, you still have 24 days to return it for a FULL REFUND! There is no need to sue Apple. Just get your money back and get a life.
Notice the lawsuit says "design AND manufacturing defects." I received my iPhone4 yesterday and I cannot make the problem happen. I went to a known poor signal location and managed to make 1 more bar disappear before it bounced back to 4 bars.
Another friend just got his i4...again no problem. A 3rd friend got his on release day and he can go from 5 bars to no signal in < minute.
I'm really starting to think this is/was a manufacturing defect especially prevalent in the 1st/2nd batch of phones. The biggest issue here is how Apple is dealing with it. Instead of coming out and saying they released a bad batch they are trying to wait it out presumably to avoid replacing the entire 1st batch.
Apple surely has an issue on their hands with this one. I loose, consistently, 2 bars of service when I touch the lower left corner of the phone where the antennas join. If I lick my finger (clammy hand simulation) then it kicks me off the network completely. I have tested this over and over and over and it produces the same results every time. There is definitely an issue with "holding it wrong." Wrong answer Steve. As much as I admire the guy, this is a failed design.
Having said that, my iPhone 3G in the very same environment, exactly the same place at my desk is not even getting a signal. In reading elsewhere I am finding that the iPhone 4 has exception signal quality. Even better than most phones and certainly better than the older iPhones. But if you hold the phone "wrong" then you loose about 60% of those gains.
So, they took three steps forward in their signal design and left two steps back if you hold it wrong. What they should have done, if they are so insistent on having the antenna on the outside, was disguise these gains and losses in the way the bars are presented.
If I hold the death grip with some rubber then I still retain excellent signal. It is your skin that is conductive between the two antennas. This is a real damn shame for Apple because they consistently try so hard to offer the best to the consumer (except for their Bluetooth Headset. Someone should be shot for the reception on that thing). This is going to turn into one BIG bag of hurt for them. I guarantee it.
About a dozen people are killed each year in the US by tipping vending machines over on top themselves. A sticker that warns of this doesn't really seem unwarranted. Consider it a public service announcement.
I look forward to the giant sticker on the iPhone 4 noting that left-handed people are probably under the influence of witchcraft and should be beat into being right-handed or burned at the stake.
I think that's part of the problem, but when the phone drops calls or will not make calls, then there is a bigger problem than just however many bars are showing on the screen.
Kyle76,
You are right on the mark.
90% of the people on this forum are simply choosing to ignore the "dropped call" part of it. Either they all bought their cases on day 1 or they are awfully lucky. Personally I hate cases (all the effort Jonathan Ive put in with his beautiful, strong materials .., remember? :-) ) and I certainly don't want to pay for one just because my $299 gadget is messed up.
During that week the company's chairman and CEO has denied in writing that there is a problem, and the company has sent written instructions to its store employees describing specifically how they should deny there is a problem when faced with customer complaints.
Isn't that page of written instructions hearsay also?
Sorry to hear you got a bad one, perhaps an exchange for a properly working phone are in order?
I did exchange my first iPhone 4, and the replacement I received from Apple has the same problem. It goes from 5 bars to "No Service" in about 10 seconds when I hold it naturally in my left hand. I live 300 miles from the nearest Apple Store, so this all had to be done via FedEx.
So tell me, how many times do you expect me to do this? And why, exactly, do you and your fellow apologists keep insisting that the onus for this situation should fall on the consumer, and not the manufacturer of an obviously defective device? I've been buying Apple products since 1984, and this is the most easily reproducible bug I've ever encountered.
If Steve Jobs first reaction would have been something like: "We're checking into this," or: "Our engineers will have a fix soon," instead of: "You're all morons who don't now how to hold a phone," very few of us would have gone ballistic.
Jobs is being an ignorant twunt by telling customers 'they are holding it wrong' The iPhone 4 is a defective design and Apple is in denial that it is defective.
Because people are entitled to tens or hundreds of thousands because they are greedy at worst (actually overall happy with the phone, but just money-grubbing asses), or slightly inconvenienced at first (out maybe a few hundred for breaking a contract with another carrier).
And Apple won't assess the restocking fee for a defective return.
And this isn't a gripe about people suing Apple.
It is a gripe about greed and broken elements of our legal system.
Suing for a recall of a genuinely defective product would be another matter.
First of all, I don't really understand why someone has to own a product to be able to voice a negative opinion on it.
That being said, I don't really think this lawsuit has any leg to stand on. It's not illegal to make a product that isn't perfect. The reception issue is clearly a flaw in the product design, and if apple didn't promote that covering the bottom left corner lowers your reception... well, so what? You market your products STRENGTHS, not its flaws. It's your competitors' prerogative to attack its flaws.
This is not a SAFETY issue (which would warrant a lawsuit). It's a quality issue. It would be like suing Ford because the range on it's keyless entry remote for the new Mustang wasn't as good as the range for the remote on your old Altima.
Un-frigging-believable. Not really. It's the age of entitlements. There are options besides suing Apple. The iP4 has been in use for 10 days and people are going to their lawyers? It will be interesting to watch this play out. In my experience as a consumer I don't sue the manufacturer when the product I buy doesn't work as advertised. I either return it or I don't buy another one. Give me a break about losing a few bucks because of the 10% restock fee. Some people are just PIAs and there's no getting around them. That's the price Apple pays to stay in business. I never had an opinion about Steve Jobs before all this iPhone hysteria started. I am beginning to like this guy.
Comments
2 simple, easy, basic questions for you before I choose to ignore you completely -
1. Do you have an iPhone 4?
2. Are you able to reproduce this issue yourself?
If you answer no to either of these - just get the fuck off this new bandwagon.
Thanks.
As soon as they release a patch to "fix" the signal strength "bars" as they did 2 years ago with the 3G all will be fine. It's the appearance of few or no "bars" that has people crazy. Last night I had seemingly no signal at my home where I have always had full strength. My wife's 3G had all 5 bars. I called her and she called me. Perfect reception. I have tried for 3 days now to recreate the situation that people are crazy about and cannot do it.
I had my first "cellular" phone during the initial Chicago test market in 1986 and have used every type of phone and carrier since then. There is absolutely no difference in the reception between my 3G and my new iPhone 4.
Not sure how a software patch will resolve the problem, seems it is a hardware, or physical part of the phone, which reacts when 'touched', bit like touching an indoor aerial on your TV makes the picture go snowy.
It sound like a material problem, conductive.
Maybe the handset will have to be trashed and remade with alternative materials. The iPhone 4 is this year's puck mouse !
Of course you could hold the puck mouse when using it, and it would still work.
http://iphonehold.tumblr.com/
If you hold the phone like this in MY house you lose your cellular connection, but NONE of my previous iPhones did. Does anyone really think this is NOT a problem?
Edit: Just noticed that in all the pictures in that link, not one is showing a screen where the signal bars are present. Wonder if that was a conscious decision?
Edit2: OK, so here's a couple of pics that DO show the bars (my iPhone): http://gallery.me.com/wingsy#100071
While my opinion is that a law suit is premature at this point - and regardless of the root cause or steps that resulted in this - the perception of a problem may be enough to significantly impact the future sales figures of the unit - and the Apple Board and or Stockholders - should be the ones calling a meeting with Steve and the iPhone design team to determine a solution to the problem - not a marketing campaign on why it is not a real problem.
I think Steve has more decision power within Apple than you realize.
In order for Apple to keep him and have him be happy to be there, he gets a huge amount of control. And, if he advises the board on a certain course of action, such as "it's not an issue, we just need to educate users on how to use the phone correctly", then they will likely let him make the call...for now. Of course if this issue gets bigger, then they may have to reevaluate the plan.
Stay tuned~
As soon as they release a patch to "fix" the signal strength "bars" as they did 2 years ago with the 3G all will be fine. It's the appearance of few or no "bars" that has people crazy.
I think that's part of the problem, but when the phone drops calls or will not make calls, then there is a bigger problem than just however many bars are showing on the screen.
... I've got a picture, I kid you not, that I took of a sticker on a vending machine noting that if you try to bang it back and forth it might tip over on you. ...
About a dozen people are killed each year in the US by tipping vending machines over on top themselves. A sticker that warns of this doesn't really seem unwarranted. Consider it a public service announcement.
What a bunch of moaning pricks. If it aint working for you then take it back. Better that than looking for a handout. Scamming bastards the lot of them.
In the UK there is a 14 day return period where you can cancel the contract and return the handset. You will only be charged for any usage.
In the USA on AT&T you can cancel the contract within 3 days with no extra fees or within 30 days and you only have to pay the activation fee plus any usage. No excuses to stay with the phone if it does not work for you. No reason to go suing anyone for profit. They should change the law to make these solicitor firms put up a bond to cover court fees if they are unsuccessful. A 10 million dollar bond should keep the shysters out of the courts.
I doubt the return fee. I've returned a Shuffle that was won at a Christmas party with acopy of the receipt from Apple on line listing 10 or so shuffles and an iTouch I bought that would no work on my wi-fi but worked okay in the store. No restocking fee.
That's. What I was about to say... It's been 1 freaking week. Those attorneys should be charged with malpractice!!!
During that week the company's chairman and CEO has denied in writing that there is a problem, and the company has sent written instructions to its store employees describing specifically how they should deny there is a problem when faced with customer complaints.
What exactly do you imagine would change, and how many weeks would you give it?
Hey, everyone who bought an iPhone 4, you still have 24 days to return it for a FULL REFUND! There is no need to sue Apple. Just get your money back and get a life.
:-) Thanks for watching out for Apple!
Its not that easy...If I return my phone. What will I use then? i will have to buy another phone now......
I just renewed my contract for another 2 years with AT&T to get this phone......no I am stuck....
If really want an iPhone that works Apple is still selling the 3Gs. Why not pick up one of those as an exchange? It is even cheaper.
Another friend just got his i4...again no problem. A 3rd friend got his on release day and he can go from 5 bars to no signal in < minute.
I'm really starting to think this is/was a manufacturing defect especially prevalent in the 1st/2nd batch of phones. The biggest issue here is how Apple is dealing with it. Instead of coming out and saying they released a bad batch they are trying to wait it out presumably to avoid replacing the entire 1st batch.
Having said that, my iPhone 3G in the very same environment, exactly the same place at my desk is not even getting a signal. In reading elsewhere I am finding that the iPhone 4 has exception signal quality. Even better than most phones and certainly better than the older iPhones. But if you hold the phone "wrong" then you loose about 60% of those gains.
So, they took three steps forward in their signal design and left two steps back if you hold it wrong. What they should have done, if they are so insistent on having the antenna on the outside, was disguise these gains and losses in the way the bars are presented.
If I hold the death grip with some rubber then I still retain excellent signal. It is your skin that is conductive between the two antennas. This is a real damn shame for Apple because they consistently try so hard to offer the best to the consumer (except for their Bluetooth Headset. Someone should be shot for the reception on that thing). This is going to turn into one BIG bag of hurt for them. I guarantee it.
About a dozen people are killed each year in the US by tipping vending machines over on top themselves. A sticker that warns of this doesn't really seem unwarranted. Consider it a public service announcement.
I look forward to the giant sticker on the iPhone 4 noting that left-handed people are probably under the influence of witchcraft and should be beat into being right-handed or burned at the stake.
I think that's part of the problem, but when the phone drops calls or will not make calls, then there is a bigger problem than just however many bars are showing on the screen.
Kyle76,
You are right on the mark.
90% of the people on this forum are simply choosing to ignore the "dropped call" part of it. Either they all bought their cases on day 1 or they are awfully lucky. Personally I hate cases (all the effort Jonathan Ive put in with his beautiful, strong materials .., remember? :-) ) and I certainly don't want to pay for one just because my $299 gadget is messed up.
During that week the company's chairman and CEO has denied in writing that there is a problem, and the company has sent written instructions to its store employees describing specifically how they should deny there is a problem when faced with customer complaints.
Isn't that page of written instructions hearsay also?
Sorry to hear you got a bad one, perhaps an exchange for a properly working phone are in order?
I did exchange my first iPhone 4, and the replacement I received from Apple has the same problem. It goes from 5 bars to "No Service" in about 10 seconds when I hold it naturally in my left hand. I live 300 miles from the nearest Apple Store, so this all had to be done via FedEx.
So tell me, how many times do you expect me to do this? And why, exactly, do you and your fellow apologists keep insisting that the onus for this situation should fall on the consumer, and not the manufacturer of an obviously defective device? I've been buying Apple products since 1984, and this is the most easily reproducible bug I've ever encountered.
If Steve Jobs first reaction would have been something like: "We're checking into this," or: "Our engineers will have a fix soon," instead of: "You're all morons who don't now how to hold a phone," very few of us would have gone ballistic.
Apple need a kick in the bollocks by consumers.
Jobs is being an ignorant twunt by telling customers 'they are holding it wrong' The iPhone 4 is a defective design and Apple is in denial that it is defective.
Because people are entitled to tens or hundreds of thousands because they are greedy at worst (actually overall happy with the phone, but just money-grubbing asses), or slightly inconvenienced at first (out maybe a few hundred for breaking a contract with another carrier).
And Apple won't assess the restocking fee for a defective return.
And this isn't a gripe about people suing Apple.
It is a gripe about greed and broken elements of our legal system.
Suing for a recall of a genuinely defective product would be another matter.
That being said, I don't really think this lawsuit has any leg to stand on. It's not illegal to make a product that isn't perfect. The reception issue is clearly a flaw in the product design, and if apple didn't promote that covering the bottom left corner lowers your reception... well, so what? You market your products STRENGTHS, not its flaws. It's your competitors' prerogative to attack its flaws.
This is not a SAFETY issue (which would warrant a lawsuit). It's a quality issue. It would be like suing Ford because the range on it's keyless entry remote for the new Mustang wasn't as good as the range for the remote on your old Altima.