I think that, at some point, Apple will change the physical design of the antenna. One obvious [to me] fix would be to move the antenna separators on both sides to the bottom of the case. That way you would have to cover up the mic/speaker to bridge the gap.
.
Antennas are tuned to desired wavelenghts by their physical dimensions. The location of the separator was surely driven in part by that physical requirement. It's certainly not for aesthetic reasons. It's like a little blemish, which is why people immediately started "picking at it".
Thanks for the info. But I don't see how you could get a real price without bidding an REQ with a complete list of materials. I haven't examined the bumpers but it seems more complicated than just a rubber band.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Thanks for pointing out that you don't have any idea what you're talking about.
It's not something that's no more complicated than a rubber band. It is made up of multiple components made of different materials and manufactured to much tighter tolerances than most rubber bands. It is difficult to make rubber materials to these tolerances.
No, I have no idea what the dock price of a bumper is. And neither do you.
If I read your comment correctly, we are in agreement.
Just as annoying as being told to shut up after merely posting one's experience with the iPhone4.
But because you don't believe the problem is real, it seems that you're ok with people being told to shut up. Otherwise you'd be just as outraged at that kind of behavior. Perhaps more outraged. Instead, you've consistently harped on idiots from one side of the argument but not idiots from the other side of the argument.
Come on solipsism, i know you can be more level-headed than that.
I am going to come to Sol's defense! I have participated in many discussions with him-- often disagreed with him. But I never felt him unwilling to consider a well-presented reasoned point of view/opinion.
I think we all get tired when the discussions become infested with those with agendas not related to the topic.
I don't recall Sol telling anyone to STFU-- that's not his style. He may not have responded (when, or in the way you want) to posters who told others to STFU... But we're all guilty of that-- sometimes you just choose not to go there.
I think that anyone who wants to evaluate Sol, can click on his alias and read his many posts.
I think you will find little to criticize in the content or civility of his posts.
Wasn't that in reference to the investors, not users?
10:45 "there are some customers who are having problems.. and i apologize to them.'
10:45: as far as investors go, we want investors who are in apple for the long haul. so for those investors who bought some stock and the price is down $5, I have no apology
I got it from Macworld's live blog. He may not have caught every sentence because i didn't read what you just quoted anywhere.
One more thing... if it was a problem with all previous iPhones, how come nobody was complaining about the bars dropping and data stopping when holding previous generation iPhones?
SJ said AT&T is reporting 1% more dropped calls with the 4 vs the GS. I don't know why nobody was complaining.
I hope you aren't implying that I ever said attenuation doesn't occur when you block RF or that no iPhones had any issues.
That's not what I was getting at but ok, let me rephrase:
I don't think the free cases should go to anyone who previously claimed that they never had signal degradation issues, or were affected by increased dropped calls with Iphone 4. If I recall, you have been adamant that your unit has been free of these issues, and further, called into question numerous times, the validity of those who have stated the contrary. This is't a personal attack, just my opinion.
Saying "it happens on all phones" is a pretty vague statement because it does not address exactly how the phone is held. It is one thing to have the issue when a phone is held with the hand in an unnatural, contorted position that people have to struggle in order to achieve. It is quite another if the issue appears when a phone is held in a way that most people typically hold a phone. Did Apple's antenna design, or their comparisons in today's conference take this into account?
But at least Steve did say:
"We will continue to work on more advanced antenna designs that don’t have this problem or put this problem in an out of the way place."
I think that Apple will revise the design so that an accessory is not needed to mitigate the design flaw. And when those revised phones are available, owners of the current design should have the option to return their phone for a free upgrade. The return phones could be refurbished and upgraded, depending on what the fix is. Heck, Apple may still be hoping they can rectify with software. If they can, then more power to them. Either way, the free case is a temporary measure, imho. It mitigates the problem, but doesn't fulfill the promise of the device. Some people don't like cases. I, for one, have a pouch made by SFBAGS.COM. It holds my phone tight, but when I get a call, I can pull out the phone, and hold it, without a case. Apple can't have it both ways -- on one hand justifiably proud of the form and appearance of the phone, and on the other hand insisting that users need to wrap it in something for it to function fully.
"And when those revised phones are available, owners of the current design should have the option to return their phone for a free upgrade."
I don't think that what you suggest is reasonable:
So, in the next 2-11 months from now (when/if an upgrade is made) anyone who wants should get a free replacement for his iP4?
If Apple had that exposure what would be their incentive to do a redesign before the next iPhone?
Why should you, or anyone, expect to buy a new car, phone, refrigerator, etc, use if for a period of time (inducing wear and tear), then feel entitled to a replacement when a new design/feature was added?
Sorry, I just don't understand that mentality!
You have a choice:
1) if you have already bought the iPhone 4 return it or encase it (free)-- those are the options on the table
2) if you have not bought an iPhone-- see it for what it is, and decide to buy or not.
Or, if you are interested, I will lease you an iPhone 4, with an upgrade option (up to, but not including iPhone 5), for, say, $290 up front, and $90 a month for 11 months (off the top of my head).
Something like that would be more practical and a more sound business proposition that what you are asking of Apple.
I think the free bumpers thing is crap. I don't want a case around my phone. Why should I need an accessory to make a product work correctly?
Is Apple also going to start making a "bumper compatible dock" or "bumper sync adaptor" for third party accessories? With a case on my iPhone, I can no longer plug in anything I want to it (without taking the case off or modifying it).
This is a crappy solution.
I'll wait until after Sept. 30th to see what they come out with next. We need a REAL fix, not a case. Cases should be OPTIONAL for protection, not REQUIRED for the iPhone to work properly.
I used to own an iPhone 4, so I know exactly how it behaves and it's pretty darn annoying. It's pretty hard to not touch the seam in one way or another. I often found myself accidentally touching it barely and seeing my data stop completely... then I'm sitting there wondering what is going on, then I realize what I'm doing and as soon as I release my pinky finger, it loads again.
Today was a giant disappointment for me, and I'm still glad I returned my iPhone 4.
That sounds like a well thought out and reasoned decision-- presented factually and with little embellishment.
I enjoy and learn from a post such as yours-- one of the reasons I visit these threads.
It is one thing to have the issue when a phone is held with the hand in an unnatural, contorted position that people have to struggle in order to achieve. It is quite another if the issue appears when a phone is held in a way that most people typically hold a phone.
Here's a picture from the Apple website showing the grip that gives problems with the iPhone 4. It doesn't look very natural to me.
I returned my iphone 4 after two days and much consternation, so this free case offer doesn't affect me. However, my point was made to highlight those who were adamant throughout this ordeal about having 0 issues with their particular unit.
Anyway, it's been a weirdo few weeks for Apple and am still not sure exactly how I feel.
I know for sure that the phone itself is an outstanding piece of tech. However, after thinking through cases and potential resale value, I am contenido to wait for the next model.
Just as annoying as being told to shut up after merely posting one's experience with the iPhone4.
But because you don't believe the problem is real, it seems that you're ok with people being told to shut up. Otherwise you'd be just as outraged at that kind of behavior. Perhaps more outraged. Instead, you've consistently harped on idiots from one side of the argument but not idiots from the other side of the argument.
Maybe it is no longer the problem, in this case, the iPhone 4 antenna, that is the actual problem. Maybe, it is how we communicate the problems we encounter, especially in the internet age.
There is a sense of proportion. A 0.01% is still a lot of people having problems, if we talk about more than 3 million iPhones already sold -- even if 99.9% of those more than 3million have no problems, or can overlook the problem, or find a workaround the problem, or trust Apple that they recognize the problem and are working on it.
The second problem arises if those 0.01% assumes that their problem (or what they perceive to be a fatal flaw), is also everyone's problem. We know from the real world (myself include) are more vocal than those who do not problem. And, 0.01% of more than 3 million can raise a lot of decibles.
The next problem arises when bloggers and mass media, exploit the issue to further their own goals, not really to find the truth or solution to the problem. As a result, the term "it goes viral" was coined, to refer to situations where something is believed to be a fact, or at least perceived to be a fact, whether it is true or not, simply because of "infinite" repetition.
This is not to say that Apple has not made a mistake, in this whole mess.
From my own experience, I would trust Apple than Microsoft, Google, or some other company to foind their way around this situation.
Just for the record, I have "tried/used" various iPhones (including the latest), but never owned one, simply because I do not want to be saddled with the high monthly cost. Also, what I do most also would require a larger screen; the iPad for mobile would be more suited for what I need, it is just not there yet, but I might be forced to get an iPad prematurely because of a project we wanted to do the next few months.
That's not what I was getting at but ok, let me rephrase:
I don't think the free cases should go to anyone who previously claimed that they never had signal degradation issues, or were affected by increased dropped calls with Iphone 4. If I recall, you have been adamant that your unit has been free of these issues, and further, called into question numerous times, the validity of those who have stated the contrary. This is't a personal attack, just my opinion.
No, I do not have an issue with my iPhone going from 5 bars to No Service from touching the "3G-Spot".
No, I have not said those with an issue are lying. In fact, I come to the defense of those with issues to thosebto the other extreme Jo stated the problem doesn't exist. I used the circumstantial evidence of a comparably excessive number of posters atatingbthey had the issue, as well as well known tech writers, testers and bloggers. I later stated that I've seen the issue happen and did direct comparisons with my phone.
I've also tried to ease the fear and distress by informing iPhone 4 buyers who arent happy with their purchase that they can return it within 30-days risk free (at least in the US). This was well before Apple officially reminded everyone of this fact.
I will buy cases as they serve several purposes, the least of which is to limit signal attenuation. Note that cellphone cases existed long before the iPhone 4.
PS: I still don't have the problem as I write this with only one EDGE bar on version 4.0.1.
So 0.55% have reported this issue through AppleCare. While that is one half of one percent (a small percentage to be sure), that amounts to 16,000 units. That would be the bare minimum affected if the 0.55% of those who reported to AppleCare represented 100% of the problems, but that's unrealistic. Because not everyone who buys an iPhone signs up for AppleCare, and not everyone who experiences problems necessarily reports the issues, the figure could be as high as 30,000 units.
If I were to guess, the problem may have stemmed from a couple of defective batchs... the number of units sounds about right. Batch defects happen, and considering how fast Apple was pumping them out of China... so fast that the screen adhesive didn't even have time to dry on the way over (causing the yellow blotches), this seems likely. Even if the defective units are that high, that's still only 1%. You're chances of receiving one are pretty rare.
Emphasis mine.
AppleCare may be just a convenient way to categorize the 0.55% reporting issues. It is my understanding that the iPhone comes with a 30-90 day warranty (I couldn't find the actual number quickly). AppleCare takes effect after the warranty expires (even though purchased at the same time as the phone).
Since no iPhone 4s have gone beyond the warranty period, I think that Apple is reporting warranty issues as AppleCare issues.
For all I know, Apple may account for them under a single entry!
So, I suspect that the 0.55% is the number of issues reported out of the Total Population of iPhone 4s sold!
We know from the real world (myself include) are more vocal than those who do not problem. And, 0.01% of more than 3 million can raise a lot of decibles.
CGC
That's exactly correct. And the return rates prove that pretty much everybody loves their iPhone.
So, I suspect that the 0.55% is the number of issues reported out of the Total Population of iPhone 4s sold!
.
0.55% is probably higher than what they see at the Apple Stores. So they reported the highest percentage they had - and it is still very few iPhone owners.
Many more people are happy with the iPhone 4 compared to the 3GS, going by return rates, and the 3GS is the second best phone in the world (second only to the iP4).
So the low return rates prove that hardly anybody doesn't like the iPhone 4.
[QUOTE=SendMe;1677392]Here's a picture from the Apple website showing the grip that gives problems with the iPhone 4. It doesn't look very natural to me.
If the fingernails were a little dirtier-- that would be me.
I have small hands and that's exactly the way I hold the iPhone. I am right handed and do most one-finger touches with my right hand, while cradling the phone in the left.
Also, I don't change my grip [much] when I place the phone to my left ear for a phone call.
Comments
I think that, at some point, Apple will change the physical design of the antenna. One obvious [to me] fix would be to move the antenna separators on both sides to the bottom of the case. That way you would have to cover up the mic/speaker to bridge the gap.
.
Antennas are tuned to desired wavelenghts by their physical dimensions. The location of the separator was surely driven in part by that physical requirement. It's certainly not for aesthetic reasons. It's like a little blemish, which is why people immediately started "picking at it".
Originally Posted by Park Seward
Thanks for the info. But I don't see how you could get a real price without bidding an REQ with a complete list of materials. I haven't examined the bumpers but it seems more complicated than just a rubber band.
Thanks for pointing out that you don't have any idea what you're talking about.
It's not something that's no more complicated than a rubber band. It is made up of multiple components made of different materials and manufactured to much tighter tolerances than most rubber bands. It is difficult to make rubber materials to these tolerances.
No, I have no idea what the dock price of a bumper is. And neither do you.
If I read your comment correctly, we are in agreement.
Just as annoying as being told to shut up after merely posting one's experience with the iPhone4.
But because you don't believe the problem is real, it seems that you're ok with people being told to shut up. Otherwise you'd be just as outraged at that kind of behavior. Perhaps more outraged. Instead, you've consistently harped on idiots from one side of the argument but not idiots from the other side of the argument.
Come on solipsism, i know you can be more level-headed than that.
I am going to come to Sol's defense! I have participated in many discussions with him-- often disagreed with him. But I never felt him unwilling to consider a well-presented reasoned point of view/opinion.
I think we all get tired when the discussions become infested with those with agendas not related to the topic.
I don't recall Sol telling anyone to STFU-- that's not his style. He may not have responded (when, or in the way you want) to posters who told others to STFU... But we're all guilty of that-- sometimes you just choose not to go there.
I think that anyone who wants to evaluate Sol, can click on his alias and read his many posts.
I think you will find little to criticize in the content or civility of his posts.
,
Wasn't that in reference to the investors, not users?
10:45 "there are some customers who are having problems.. and i apologize to them.'
10:45: as far as investors go, we want investors who are in apple for the long haul. so for those investors who bought some stock and the price is down $5, I have no apology
I got it from Macworld's live blog. He may not have caught every sentence because i didn't read what you just quoted anywhere.
One more thing... if it was a problem with all previous iPhones, how come nobody was complaining about the bars dropping and data stopping when holding previous generation iPhones?
SJ said AT&T is reporting 1% more dropped calls with the 4 vs the GS. I don't know why nobody was complaining.
I got it from Macworld's live blog. He may not have caught every sentence because i didn't read what you just quoted anywhere.
I got it from:
Liveblog: Apple iPhone 4 Press Conference
By Ars Staff
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/20...conference.ars
I hope you aren't implying that I ever said attenuation doesn't occur when you block RF or that no iPhones had any issues.
That's not what I was getting at but ok, let me rephrase:
I don't think the free cases should go to anyone who previously claimed that they never had signal degradation issues, or were affected by increased dropped calls with Iphone 4. If I recall, you have been adamant that your unit has been free of these issues, and further, called into question numerous times, the validity of those who have stated the contrary. This is't a personal attack, just my opinion.
But at least Steve did say:
"We will continue to work on more advanced antenna designs that don’t have this problem or put this problem in an out of the way place."
http://www.macnn.com/live/#ixzz0tse5viAH
I think that Apple will revise the design so that an accessory is not needed to mitigate the design flaw. And when those revised phones are available, owners of the current design should have the option to return their phone for a free upgrade. The return phones could be refurbished and upgraded, depending on what the fix is. Heck, Apple may still be hoping they can rectify with software. If they can, then more power to them. Either way, the free case is a temporary measure, imho. It mitigates the problem, but doesn't fulfill the promise of the device. Some people don't like cases. I, for one, have a pouch made by SFBAGS.COM. It holds my phone tight, but when I get a call, I can pull out the phone, and hold it, without a case. Apple can't have it both ways -- on one hand justifiably proud of the form and appearance of the phone, and on the other hand insisting that users need to wrap it in something for it to function fully.
"And when those revised phones are available, owners of the current design should have the option to return their phone for a free upgrade."
I don't think that what you suggest is reasonable:
So, in the next 2-11 months from now (when/if an upgrade is made) anyone who wants should get a free replacement for his iP4?
If Apple had that exposure what would be their incentive to do a redesign before the next iPhone?
Why should you, or anyone, expect to buy a new car, phone, refrigerator, etc, use if for a period of time (inducing wear and tear), then feel entitled to a replacement when a new design/feature was added?
Sorry, I just don't understand that mentality!
You have a choice:
1) if you have already bought the iPhone 4 return it or encase it (free)-- those are the options on the table
2) if you have not bought an iPhone-- see it for what it is, and decide to buy or not.
Or, if you are interested, I will lease you an iPhone 4, with an upgrade option (up to, but not including iPhone 5), for, say, $290 up front, and $90 a month for 11 months (off the top of my head).
Something like that would be more practical and a more sound business proposition that what you are asking of Apple.
.
I think the free bumpers thing is crap. I don't want a case around my phone. Why should I need an accessory to make a product work correctly?
Is Apple also going to start making a "bumper compatible dock" or "bumper sync adaptor" for third party accessories? With a case on my iPhone, I can no longer plug in anything I want to it (without taking the case off or modifying it).
This is a crappy solution.
I'll wait until after Sept. 30th to see what they come out with next. We need a REAL fix, not a case. Cases should be OPTIONAL for protection, not REQUIRED for the iPhone to work properly.
I used to own an iPhone 4, so I know exactly how it behaves and it's pretty darn annoying. It's pretty hard to not touch the seam in one way or another. I often found myself accidentally touching it barely and seeing my data stop completely... then I'm sitting there wondering what is going on, then I realize what I'm doing and as soon as I release my pinky finger, it loads again.
Today was a giant disappointment for me, and I'm still glad I returned my iPhone 4.
That sounds like a well thought out and reasoned decision-- presented factually and with little embellishment.
I enjoy and learn from a post such as yours-- one of the reasons I visit these threads.
Thanks!
It is one thing to have the issue when a phone is held with the hand in an unnatural, contorted position that people have to struggle in order to achieve. It is quite another if the issue appears when a phone is held in a way that most people typically hold a phone.
Here's a picture from the Apple website showing the grip that gives problems with the iPhone 4. It doesn't look very natural to me.
"And when those revised phones are available, owners of the current design should have the option to return their phone for a free upgrade."
I don't think that what you suggest is reasonable ...
Yeah, that's crazy talk. I don't think he's here for a genuine, honest discussion, though.
I returned my iphone 4 after two days and much consternation, so this free case offer doesn't affect me. However, my point was made to highlight those who were adamant throughout this ordeal about having 0 issues with their particular unit.
Anyway, it's been a weirdo few weeks for Apple and am still not sure exactly how I feel.
I know for sure that the phone itself is an outstanding piece of tech. However, after thinking through cases and potential resale value, I am contenido to wait for the next model.
I have 0 issues, but understand that others do.
I apologize! I overreacted to your post!
.
Just as annoying as being told to shut up after merely posting one's experience with the iPhone4.
But because you don't believe the problem is real, it seems that you're ok with people being told to shut up. Otherwise you'd be just as outraged at that kind of behavior. Perhaps more outraged. Instead, you've consistently harped on idiots from one side of the argument but not idiots from the other side of the argument.
Maybe it is no longer the problem, in this case, the iPhone 4 antenna, that is the actual problem. Maybe, it is how we communicate the problems we encounter, especially in the internet age.
There is a sense of proportion. A 0.01% is still a lot of people having problems, if we talk about more than 3 million iPhones already sold -- even if 99.9% of those more than 3million have no problems, or can overlook the problem, or find a workaround the problem, or trust Apple that they recognize the problem and are working on it.
The second problem arises if those 0.01% assumes that their problem (or what they perceive to be a fatal flaw), is also everyone's problem. We know from the real world (myself include) are more vocal than those who do not problem. And, 0.01% of more than 3 million can raise a lot of decibles.
The next problem arises when bloggers and mass media, exploit the issue to further their own goals, not really to find the truth or solution to the problem. As a result, the term "it goes viral" was coined, to refer to situations where something is believed to be a fact, or at least perceived to be a fact, whether it is true or not, simply because of "infinite" repetition.
This is not to say that Apple has not made a mistake, in this whole mess.
From my own experience, I would trust Apple than Microsoft, Google, or some other company to foind their way around this situation.
Just for the record, I have "tried/used" various iPhones (including the latest), but never owned one, simply because I do not want to be saddled with the high monthly cost. Also, what I do most also would require a larger screen; the iPad for mobile would be more suited for what I need, it is just not there yet, but I might be forced to get an iPad prematurely because of a project we wanted to do the next few months.
CGC
That's not what I was getting at but ok, let me rephrase:
I don't think the free cases should go to anyone who previously claimed that they never had signal degradation issues, or were affected by increased dropped calls with Iphone 4. If I recall, you have been adamant that your unit has been free of these issues, and further, called into question numerous times, the validity of those who have stated the contrary. This is't a personal attack, just my opinion.
No, I do not have an issue with my iPhone going from 5 bars to No Service from touching the "3G-Spot".
No, I have not said those with an issue are lying. In fact, I come to the defense of those with issues to thosebto the other extreme Jo stated the problem doesn't exist. I used the circumstantial evidence of a comparably excessive number of posters atatingbthey had the issue, as well as well known tech writers, testers and bloggers. I later stated that I've seen the issue happen and did direct comparisons with my phone.
I've also tried to ease the fear and distress by informing iPhone 4 buyers who arent happy with their purchase that they can return it within 30-days risk free (at least in the US). This was well before Apple officially reminded everyone of this fact.
I will buy cases as they serve several purposes, the least of which is to limit signal attenuation. Note that cellphone cases existed long before the iPhone 4.
PS: I still don't have the problem as I write this with only one EDGE bar on version 4.0.1.
So 0.55% have reported this issue through AppleCare. While that is one half of one percent (a small percentage to be sure), that amounts to 16,000 units. That would be the bare minimum affected if the 0.55% of those who reported to AppleCare represented 100% of the problems, but that's unrealistic. Because not everyone who buys an iPhone signs up for AppleCare, and not everyone who experiences problems necessarily reports the issues, the figure could be as high as 30,000 units.
If I were to guess, the problem may have stemmed from a couple of defective batchs... the number of units sounds about right. Batch defects happen, and considering how fast Apple was pumping them out of China... so fast that the screen adhesive didn't even have time to dry on the way over (causing the yellow blotches), this seems likely. Even if the defective units are that high, that's still only 1%. You're chances of receiving one are pretty rare.
Emphasis mine.
AppleCare may be just a convenient way to categorize the 0.55% reporting issues. It is my understanding that the iPhone comes with a 30-90 day warranty (I couldn't find the actual number quickly). AppleCare takes effect after the warranty expires (even though purchased at the same time as the phone).
Since no iPhone 4s have gone beyond the warranty period, I think that Apple is reporting warranty issues as AppleCare issues.
For all I know, Apple may account for them under a single entry!
So, I suspect that the 0.55% is the number of issues reported out of the Total Population of iPhone 4s sold!
.
We know from the real world (myself include) are more vocal than those who do not problem. And, 0.01% of more than 3 million can raise a lot of decibles.
CGC
That's exactly correct. And the return rates prove that pretty much everybody loves their iPhone.
So, I suspect that the 0.55% is the number of issues reported out of the Total Population of iPhone 4s sold!
.
0.55% is probably higher than what they see at the Apple Stores. So they reported the highest percentage they had - and it is still very few iPhone owners.
Many more people are happy with the iPhone 4 compared to the 3GS, going by return rates, and the 3GS is the second best phone in the world (second only to the iP4).
So the low return rates prove that hardly anybody doesn't like the iPhone 4.
If the fingernails were a little dirtier-- that would be me.
I have small hands and that's exactly the way I hold the iPhone. I am right handed and do most one-finger touches with my right hand, while cradling the phone in the left.
Also, I don't change my grip [much] when I place the phone to my left ear for a phone call.
.