BTW, Microsoft says that the iPhone 4 is Apple's Vista. Apple is giving out free bumpers for the iPhone to fix the problems. When do I get my free copy of WIndows 7?
I don't even know if it's worth mentioning the glaring holes in your logic anymore, but whatever
You can equate the free bumper to free software updates that stabilized Vista.
Also, one could argue that the comparison was a compliment in that they're saying the issue with the new iphone is being over-blown, and impressionable consumers might make a decision not to get the phone even when they may never run into any issues with it. This is exactly what happened with Vista. I worked on a Vista machine at work for well over a year and a half before being given an XP laptop, and I never had any problems (literally.) It was almost as if I had let the rumors put me into the mindset that Vista was bad, even when it wasn't.
What we DO know is that the number of returns is far smaller than the 3GS - which is being raised here as the paragon of reception.
That's right. You don't know - so STFU and stop with your conspiracy theories. All the evidence that Apple provided is that it's causing less returns with the iPhone 4 than the 3GS.
BTW, Microsoft says that the iPhone 4 is Apple's Vista. Apple is giving out free bumpers for the iPhone to fix the problems. When do I get my free copy of WIndows 7?
And Consumer Reports said that the only problem with the iPhone was the reception (even though they rated the reception as best in the market) but that they couldn't give it a 'recommended' rating unless Apple provided a free fix. Apple has done so. Where is the 'recommended rating'?
Android fans were quick to jump on Apple for the dropping bar problem, but now that it has been shown that their phones drop bars, too, where are they?
All these groups were quick to jump on a perceived weakness in Apple, yet none of them will admit and correct their mistakes.
Why are all the whiners not jumping on THOSE companies?
What a waste of space you've turned out to be. That bogus CR argument again. Reread CR's statement. Apple hasn't met the requirement of a permanent solution at no expense yet, though you'll do your darndest to parse it that way. (Clue, bumpers are free until . . . )
Don't bother replying unless wanting to show off for your friends, you're just a bad memory and won't be seen again.
I was kind of shocked to hear Steve use that sort of language in a press conference. It suggests to me that he's really annoyed.
I've posted it elsewhere but I say it here, you know Steve wanted to come out dressed in Military garb and like the character Col. Nathan R. Jessep from the movie a "Few Good Men" say...
'You friggin' people! You don't know how to build a smartphone. We "Think Different" and craft the antenna for the outside. You make it the punch line of a joke. You need me on Gizmodo. You want me on Gizmodo. Who's going to build a smart phone, you HTC? You Google? All you tech bloggers did was bring our stock price down. Temporarily.... Thanks for the buying opportunity! Sweet dreams, Son(y)!'
If Steve were a Conservative, he'd have known that the NYT was 'making things up' a loooonnnggg time ago!
Steve did seem a little pissed at times. Hey Steve, don't wait for the hard data to come out or craft together a Keynote slide show to let the users you love, know you are aware and are working on getting to the bottom of what is going on. Would have squelched a lot of Apple's current woes had you said something a week ago! You may have been on it since day one but perception is King and if you aren't making a little FaceTime out with the public, this is what can be wrought against you. Just ask Obama and the polling he received for his handling from the Federal level during the Gulf Oil Spill Disaster.
Or simply put, Steve, you love your wife. I'm sure she knows you love her. Doesn't mean she doesn't like hearing it out loud once and a while! Silence is not always golden. We lover and users of Apple products know that if there is some hoopla going on regarding Apple products that Apple will be checking into it to provide a fix. We don't need a PR conference and slide show, we just like hearing it out loud once and a while! That's all. Could have done it a week ago and taken the air out of some of the bloggers, Consumer Reports, NYT and Bloomberg. Oh well, now you know... We just want to hear acknowledgment...
Defendant (Apple):- "Well why didn't you take it back for a full refund, as was offered?"
Plaintiff:- "..."
Judge:- "Case dismissed"
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulpesRex
Yeah, the only way we're gonna find out whether this story was true is if the lawsuit filed a few weeks ago gains class action status, and then subsequently goes to trial. You can bet that Ruben Caballero and Steve Jobs will be deposed multiple times, and will probably be subpoenaed to testify at trial. Discovery requests will also demand all internal correspondence dealing with the i4 antenna design.
Of course, the likeliness of that suit going to trial is very small. If it gains class action status, AAPL will settle out of court, every iPhone 4 owner will get a $30 check in the mail, and the attorneys for the plaintiffs will walk away with new Ferraris and huge bonuses from their law firms.
If Apple has sold about 4 million+ units as [they] stated, the above [stated] percentage of all units now in service yields roughly 22,000 reported complaints, or just about one in every 182+- sold. That's a significantly real problem, IMHO.
This is about the third or fourth post here that demonstrates a very poor grasp of statistics.
Firstly, raw numbers don't matter (and they said three million, not four).
A complaint figure of 0.55% is so far off the curve statistically that it demonstrates the issue is very, very rare.
Secondly, if it were true that most people don't complain (for which I note the person who said this has no data) then even imagining that the true figure were three times the number of calls to AppleCare you would still be showing 1.5% complaint rate. Still statistically small. No longer what statisticians would call "insignificant" but small enough to reject the hypothesis that there is a problem.
Thirdly, the nature of those calls is not given, everything is lumped together. Jobs said something like "anything related to reception". That includes things like "the reception in my area is very low" which is nothing to do with an sleeved flaw in the antenna, through to "my data speed dropped" which could be related to the equipment issues that AT&T reported the other week. So of the 0.55% of calls to AppleCare about "reception" only a fraction of them would have been about the drop in bars, a fraction of those would have been about actual drop in bars rather than what they've read about, and a fraction of that fraction of that fraction would have been about dropped calls as a result of the issue.
So we're back to the statistical fact, that 0.55% of users calling to enquire about a reception issue is, no matter how you look at it, a tiny, tiny, figure.
This is borne out by the very low return rate. 1.5% was it? Any electronics firm would kill for that figure. It's tiny.
Stats are very useful things, if you know how to interpret them.
Check the papers etc tomorrow. Those that understand stats will report them. Those that don't will do exactly what was done above and work out a raw figure, 0.55% of 3,000,000.
Sure if that number of people tried to gatecrash your party it would be huge. But if that number of buyers rang to ask a question about something the media were making out to be apocalyptic, you'd be right to wonder why people had it in for you.
Ha! I thought it was only the Fox "News" drones and other such informationally challenged types that spouted this. Hilarious. Still, good to see some direct responses to the hysteria out there. I completely believe that there are people out there with this issue, but based on what I see around here at least, I have trouble believing that it is as widespread as the media theatrics would suggest.
You forget the mantra that "history for Liberals begins today". So what is said today, lasts only for today. Tomorrow, NYT "making things up" will have no meaning and no legitimacy. Any story reported in the NYT that Steve likes, like a poll stating Prop 8 is approved by the majority of Californians when it wasn't or a poll saying Americans are for the redefinition of marriage when they aren't may be "made up" stories but can still have NYT journalistic integrity for Steve, et. al. regardless of what he said yesterday about the NYT and making things up.
He brags on stage that Apple owned and bought a $100 million dollar antenna testing facility during iphone design. Consumer reports used a $10,000 testing facility and found the problem immediately. Steve says they did thousands of tests, and it was only on a small percentage, and that they should have said something during the keynote.
OF COURSE THEY KNEW IN ADVANCE, and damn right that engineer told him…
You can't tell people you had a $100million dollar testing facility but expect them to believe you were so incompetent that you NEVER ONCE EVER SAW THIS ANTENNA ISSUE in advance, because IF THAT IS THE TRUTH…Then Apple doesn't belong in the cellphone business.
And anyway steve jobs refuted that when he said, we knew in advance that all smart phones do this…obviously it was discussed quite a bit BEFORE the launch and they were hoping consumers wouldn't figure it out…
Break is over, time to go mop the floors at Gizmodo.
for the uninitiated, he was running against truman
Uhm . . . No!
You have gotten your facts wrong. As anyone can tell you, it was the Chicago Tribune. So clearly we can believe nothing else you say ever again, right?
And while I have not read the NYT article that is the source of these "media sucks" rants, I'm certain they didn't "just make stuff up" (although their source might have.) While the state of news gathering and reporting has declined alarmingly, I would not call the only remaining "newspaper of record" in the US a "rag" etc. These are the thoughts of tin foil hat wearing hysterics, most of whom think Limbaugh or Oreilly are a intellectual fonts of insight.
Listen pal, you are one rude SOB. Why don't you just get a life and calm down. Anytime anyone says anything that might be construed as a criticism you practically have a shit herrmorage. A criticism is a just a criticism. And anyone in business knows not every unsatisfied customer calls. It's biz 101 dude.
Take a chill pill and stop being damn rude.
It's also biz 101 that people called concerned about the antenna because of all the press. Would as many people have called otherwise? I seriously doubt it.
It's a non issue anyway. I've played around with a few phones and you can get all of them to lose bars if you r hold them right.
The NYT has been going downhill for some time now, but the purchase by Murdoch seems to have been the tipping point from poor to absurd.
And in your case, I would just point out that Murdoch bought the Wall Street Journal, not the New York Times (But yes, even the WSJ was able to get worse since Murdoch bought i.t)
My impression was the the story was true, but Steve had to emphatically deny it because of the threat of lawsuits for knowingly shipping a defective product.
What did you expect him to say? "Yeah it's true, but... who cares?"
It's also biz 101 that people called concerned about the antenna because of all the press. Would as many people have called otherwise? I seriously doubt it.
It's a non issue anyway. I've played around with a few phones and you can get all of them to lose bars if you r hold them right.
wtf is with the apple defence league here?
Ok! The iphone is completely flawless never a flaw anywhere so help ME GAWD!
how many didn't bother to call? It's well known the numbers of people who actually call to complain about issue such as this is much lower than those who actually have it.
A whole bunch of pomp and ceremony, our phone is as bad as their phone's reception, blah blah blah.
The reason Apple was crucified in the media is because look at it, the we're the king of the castle and yer the dirty rascal kind of thing you get from the apple crowd (frig I'm in it I can see it) makes it even more a target.
The more smug the grins, the more people want to wipe them. Issue or no issue, that all it really is.
No actually I think it's because people who have no lives, who have never created anything (and never will) love to try and knock down people who have done amazing things. And then other sad people who have no lives join the mob.
Ok! The iphone is completely flawless never a flaw anywhere so help ME GAWD!
jesus H christ on a cracker.
If you're going to bother to reply at least don't put words in my mouth. I never said the iPhone was completely flawless. You obviously don't have a valid argument when you have to resort to completely making things up.
You have gotten your facts wrong. As anyone can tell you, it was the Chicago Tribune. So clearly we can believe nothing else you say ever again, right?
FWIW, I believe in the case of the Dewey-Truman election results forecast, it was the national exit pollsters who got it wrong, not any particular newspaper. It's interesting though the number of people who promote the idea that if the media EVER gets something wrong, the correct intellectual response is to accept only the opinions of people who validate what you already believe.
FWIW, I believe in the case of the Dewey-Truman election results forecast, it was the national exit pollsters who got it wrong, not any particular newspaper. It's interesting though the number of people who promote the idea that if the media EVER gets something wrong, the correct intellectual response is to accept only the opinions of people who validate what you already believe.
The pollsters didn't get it wrong, their methodology and projection did not work.
The tribune did get it wrong in that they reported a prediction as fact on the same night of the election (they were a pro-Republican newspaper and they jumped the gun to "report" the election in the early morning edition.)
We all realize polls have flaws and expect them to fail. But we do expect reporters to report facts, not predictions.
Comments
BTW, Microsoft says that the iPhone 4 is Apple's Vista. Apple is giving out free bumpers for the iPhone to fix the problems. When do I get my free copy of WIndows 7?
I don't even know if it's worth mentioning the glaring holes in your logic anymore, but whatever
You can equate the free bumper to free software updates that stabilized Vista.
Also, one could argue that the comparison was a compliment in that they're saying the issue with the new iphone is being over-blown, and impressionable consumers might make a decision not to get the phone even when they may never run into any issues with it. This is exactly what happened with Vista. I worked on a Vista machine at work for well over a year and a half before being given an XP laptop, and I never had any problems (literally.) It was almost as if I had let the rumors put me into the mindset that Vista was bad, even when it wasn't.
I called his arguments weak in another thread and he said by doing so, I was attacking him.
He takes the internet too personally.
God you'd think I took a leak on his dog or something jeez.
I don't know. Why don't you tell us?
Oh, because you don't have any clue, either.
What we DO know is that the number of returns is far smaller than the 3GS - which is being raised here as the paragon of reception.
That's right. You don't know - so STFU and stop with your conspiracy theories. All the evidence that Apple provided is that it's causing less returns with the iPhone 4 than the 3GS.
BTW, Microsoft says that the iPhone 4 is Apple's Vista. Apple is giving out free bumpers for the iPhone to fix the problems. When do I get my free copy of WIndows 7?
And Consumer Reports said that the only problem with the iPhone was the reception (even though they rated the reception as best in the market) but that they couldn't give it a 'recommended' rating unless Apple provided a free fix. Apple has done so. Where is the 'recommended rating'?
Android fans were quick to jump on Apple for the dropping bar problem, but now that it has been shown that their phones drop bars, too, where are they?
All these groups were quick to jump on a perceived weakness in Apple, yet none of them will admit and correct their mistakes.
Why are all the whiners not jumping on THOSE companies?
What a waste of space you've turned out to be. That bogus CR argument again.
Don't bother replying unless wanting to show off for your friends, you're just a bad memory and won't be seen again.
I was kind of shocked to hear Steve use that sort of language in a press conference. It suggests to me that he's really annoyed.
I've posted it elsewhere but I say it here, you know Steve wanted to come out dressed in Military garb and like the character Col. Nathan R. Jessep from the movie a "Few Good Men" say...
'You friggin' people! You don't know how to build a smartphone. We "Think Different" and craft the antenna for the outside. You make it the punch line of a joke. You need me on Gizmodo. You want me on Gizmodo. Who's going to build a smart phone, you HTC? You Google? All you tech bloggers did was bring our stock price down. Temporarily.... Thanks for the buying opportunity! Sweet dreams, Son(y)!'
If Steve were a Conservative, he'd have known that the NYT was 'making things up' a loooonnnggg time ago!
Steve did seem a little pissed at times. Hey Steve, don't wait for the hard data to come out or craft together a Keynote slide show to let the users you love, know you are aware and are working on getting to the bottom of what is going on. Would have squelched a lot of Apple's current woes had you said something a week ago! You may have been on it since day one but perception is King and if you aren't making a little FaceTime out with the public, this is what can be wrought against you. Just ask Obama and the polling he received for his handling from the Federal level during the Gulf Oil Spill Disaster.
Or simply put, Steve, you love your wife. I'm sure she knows you love her. Doesn't mean she doesn't like hearing it out loud once and a while! Silence is not always golden. We lover and users of Apple products know that if there is some hoopla going on regarding Apple products that Apple will be checking into it to provide a fix. We don't need a PR conference and slide show, we just like hearing it out loud once and a while! That's all. Could have done it a week ago and taken the air out of some of the bloggers, Consumer Reports, NYT and Bloomberg. Oh well, now you know... We just want to hear acknowledgment...
Plaintiff:- "Blah, blah blah we want money"
Defendant (Apple):- "Well why didn't you take it back for a full refund, as was offered?"
Plaintiff:- "..."
Judge:- "Case dismissed"
Yeah, the only way we're gonna find out whether this story was true is if the lawsuit filed a few weeks ago gains class action status, and then subsequently goes to trial. You can bet that Ruben Caballero and Steve Jobs will be deposed multiple times, and will probably be subpoenaed to testify at trial. Discovery requests will also demand all internal correspondence dealing with the i4 antenna design.
Of course, the likeliness of that suit going to trial is very small. If it gains class action status, AAPL will settle out of court, every iPhone 4 owner will get a $30 check in the mail, and the attorneys for the plaintiffs will walk away with new Ferraris and huge bonuses from their law firms.
If Apple has sold about 4 million+ units as [they] stated, the above [stated] percentage of all units now in service yields roughly 22,000 reported complaints, or just about one in every 182+- sold. That's a significantly real problem, IMHO.
This is about the third or fourth post here that demonstrates a very poor grasp of statistics.
Firstly, raw numbers don't matter (and they said three million, not four).
A complaint figure of 0.55% is so far off the curve statistically that it demonstrates the issue is very, very rare.
Secondly, if it were true that most people don't complain (for which I note the person who said this has no data) then even imagining that the true figure were three times the number of calls to AppleCare you would still be showing 1.5% complaint rate. Still statistically small. No longer what statisticians would call "insignificant" but small enough to reject the hypothesis that there is a problem.
Thirdly, the nature of those calls is not given, everything is lumped together. Jobs said something like "anything related to reception". That includes things like "the reception in my area is very low" which is nothing to do with an sleeved flaw in the antenna, through to "my data speed dropped" which could be related to the equipment issues that AT&T reported the other week. So of the 0.55% of calls to AppleCare about "reception" only a fraction of them would have been about the drop in bars, a fraction of those would have been about actual drop in bars rather than what they've read about, and a fraction of that fraction of that fraction would have been about dropped calls as a result of the issue.
So we're back to the statistical fact, that 0.55% of users calling to enquire about a reception issue is, no matter how you look at it, a tiny, tiny, figure.
This is borne out by the very low return rate. 1.5% was it? Any electronics firm would kill for that figure. It's tiny.
Stats are very useful things, if you know how to interpret them.
Check the papers etc tomorrow. Those that understand stats will report them. Those that don't will do exactly what was done above and work out a raw figure, 0.55% of 3,000,000.
Sure if that number of people tried to gatecrash your party it would be huge. But if that number of buyers rang to ask a question about something the media were making out to be apocalyptic, you'd be right to wonder why people had it in for you.
Ha! I thought it was only the Fox "News" drones and other such informationally challenged types that spouted this. Hilarious. Still, good to see some direct responses to the hysteria out there. I completely believe that there are people out there with this issue, but based on what I see around here at least, I have trouble believing that it is as widespread as the media theatrics would suggest.
You forget the mantra that "history for Liberals begins today". So what is said today, lasts only for today. Tomorrow, NYT "making things up" will have no meaning and no legitimacy. Any story reported in the NYT that Steve likes, like a poll stating Prop 8 is approved by the majority of Californians when it wasn't or a poll saying Americans are for the redefinition of marriage when they aren't may be "made up" stories but can still have NYT journalistic integrity for Steve, et. al. regardless of what he said yesterday about the NYT and making things up.
Why you bringing up yesterday?!!!!
This kind of comments make me want to go kill myself...
Really?
Then you really need some serious, serious psychological help to include meds..
Once again, I see I am too late.
Steve Jobs is full of crap.
OF COURSE HE KNEW AND WAS WARNED IN ADVANCED.
He brags on stage that Apple owned and bought a $100 million dollar antenna testing facility during iphone design. Consumer reports used a $10,000 testing facility and found the problem immediately. Steve says they did thousands of tests, and it was only on a small percentage, and that they should have said something during the keynote.
OF COURSE THEY KNEW IN ADVANCE, and damn right that engineer told him…
You can't tell people you had a $100million dollar testing facility but expect them to believe you were so incompetent that you NEVER ONCE EVER SAW THIS ANTENNA ISSUE in advance, because IF THAT IS THE TRUTH…Then Apple doesn't belong in the cellphone business.
And anyway steve jobs refuted that when he said, we knew in advance that all smart phones do this…obviously it was discussed quite a bit BEFORE the launch and they were hoping consumers wouldn't figure it out…
Break is over, time to go mop the floors at Gizmodo.
the ny times said: "dewey wins" "dewey wins"
for the uninitiated, he was running against truman
Uhm . . . No!
You have gotten your facts wrong. As anyone can tell you, it was the Chicago Tribune. So clearly we can believe nothing else you say ever again, right?
http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&a...ed=0CCkQsAQwAA
And while I have not read the NYT article that is the source of these "media sucks" rants, I'm certain they didn't "just make stuff up" (although their source might have.) While the state of news gathering and reporting has declined alarmingly, I would not call the only remaining "newspaper of record" in the US a "rag" etc. These are the thoughts of tin foil hat wearing hysterics, most of whom think Limbaugh or Oreilly are a intellectual fonts of insight.
Listen pal, you are one rude SOB. Why don't you just get a life and calm down. Anytime anyone says anything that might be construed as a criticism you practically have a shit herrmorage. A criticism is a just a criticism. And anyone in business knows not every unsatisfied customer calls. It's biz 101 dude.
Take a chill pill and stop being damn rude.
It's also biz 101 that people called concerned about the antenna because of all the press. Would as many people have called otherwise? I seriously doubt it.
It's a non issue anyway. I've played around with a few phones and you can get all of them to lose bars if you r hold them right.
The NYT has been going downhill for some time now, but the purchase by Murdoch seems to have been the tipping point from poor to absurd.
And in your case, I would just point out that Murdoch bought the Wall Street Journal, not the New York Times (But yes, even the WSJ was able to get worse since Murdoch bought i.t)
My impression was the the story was true, but Steve had to emphatically deny it because of the threat of lawsuits for knowingly shipping a defective product.
What did you expect him to say? "Yeah it's true, but... who cares?"
lame post #637
It's also biz 101 that people called concerned about the antenna because of all the press. Would as many people have called otherwise? I seriously doubt it.
It's a non issue anyway. I've played around with a few phones and you can get all of them to lose bars if you r hold them right.
wtf is with the apple defence league here?
Ok! The iphone is completely flawless never a flaw anywhere so help ME GAWD!
jesus H christ on a cracker.
how many didn't bother to call? It's well known the numbers of people who actually call to complain about issue such as this is much lower than those who actually have it.
A whole bunch of pomp and ceremony, our phone is as bad as their phone's reception, blah blah blah.
The reason Apple was crucified in the media is because look at it, the we're the king of the castle and yer the dirty rascal kind of thing you get from the apple crowd (frig I'm in it I can see it) makes it even more a target.
The more smug the grins, the more people want to wipe them. Issue or no issue, that all it really is.
No actually I think it's because people who have no lives, who have never created anything (and never will) love to try and knock down people who have done amazing things. And then other sad people who have no lives join the mob.
wtf is with the apple defence league here?
Ok! The iphone is completely flawless never a flaw anywhere so help ME GAWD!
jesus H christ on a cracker.
If you're going to bother to reply at least don't put words in my mouth. I never said the iPhone was completely flawless. You obviously don't have a valid argument when you have to resort to completely making things up.
Uhm . . . No!
You have gotten your facts wrong. As anyone can tell you, it was the Chicago Tribune. So clearly we can believe nothing else you say ever again, right?
FWIW, I believe in the case of the Dewey-Truman election results forecast, it was the national exit pollsters who got it wrong, not any particular newspaper. It's interesting though the number of people who promote the idea that if the media EVER gets something wrong, the correct intellectual response is to accept only the opinions of people who validate what you already believe.
FWIW, I believe in the case of the Dewey-Truman election results forecast, it was the national exit pollsters who got it wrong, not any particular newspaper. It's interesting though the number of people who promote the idea that if the media EVER gets something wrong, the correct intellectual response is to accept only the opinions of people who validate what you already believe.
The pollsters didn't get it wrong, their methodology and projection did not work.
The tribune did get it wrong in that they reported a prediction as fact on the same night of the election (they were a pro-Republican newspaper and they jumped the gun to "report" the election in the early morning edition.)
We all realize polls have flaws and expect them to fail. But we do expect reporters to report facts, not predictions.