Righto...the senior management of the companies mentioned above all have demonstrated they have more foreskin than foresight. Especially, in the last couple of years or so.
Dude, thats awesome! Can I steal that line?
In fact, scrub that. I'm going to steal that line. Thanks!
I'm not a big fan of some of Dilger's news either. I will give him credit that in the past he was spot on on his analysis of Apple and the competition, but that changed shortly after the iPhone came out.
He was more critical of other companies and had a blind spot when it came to Apple's shortcomings. In my book that's just as bad as bashing Apple for no good reason. He hasn't yet turned into a Paul Thurrot, but his articles swing dangerously close to being more fanboi nonsense than objective reporting. On the other hand it's hard to find objective reporting anywhere on the net anymore.
It could be that he hasn't forgotten how Motorola was one of the reasons why Apple was hamstrung in the 90's. Between them and IBM lying to Apple on PPC clock speeds and Apple trying to make other changes to their hardware to be able to be competitive with processors that didn't make enough "umph" to make the market notice. So he could have an axe to grind with Motorola and their new ads aren't helping them win friends over that are Apple users.
He has an axe to grind with pretty much anybody who competes with Apple I'm afraid. But AppleInsider chooses to give him 'airtime', knowing that he will deliver a tasty brew for the fans and at the very least, his pieces always generate hits. And hits are AI's bread and butter as I'm sure you know. So Dilger gets to dump his inflammatory hit-bait on a regular basis.
But the fans lap it up and that's seemingly what matters. And I take the p!ss out of it where the mood drives me. Then I get attacked for attempting to set some record or other straight, with accusations of trolling or Apple-hating. Which means I post in response to those attacks. Which in turn draws new fire, and so on, and so forth, ad infinitum.
Solipsism probably has the right idea in that since he's now studiously ignoring me, that saves about 20 posts per thread. If everyone who thinks I'm an Apple-hater or troll did as solipsism does, the threads would likely be much shorter and far less cantankerous.
Probably boring too with everybody agreeing with each other although saying the same thing in a dozen different ways. But that seems to be what many here actually want. Less of a forum, and more of an Apple cheering section.
Much, much worse. While American sales would likely look better, international sales (the majority) would be unbelievably smaller, as CDMA (the technology Verizon uses) is a dying breed and is rapidly being abandoned worldwide.
I don't thing he meant what if it appeared ONLY on Verizon network and was pulled from every other carrier in the world.
You should add the (potentially) 4.5 million from HTC and all the other Android phones to that 2.7 million from Motorola. And you should add the iPad and iPod touch to the iPhone figures.
Comparing a single manufacturer or a single product is silly. We should be comparing platforms: Android v iOS.
As you say, since Apple is the only manufacturer of IOS phones but many companies make Android phones, it really isn't all that relevant that Motorolla was beaten by Apple. THis would be a bit like saying that Apple sold more computers than ASUS or Dell (I don't know if this is true by the way). It may well be true that Apple sells more computers than one single computer maker but we all know what percentage of the overall computer market Apple has (about 5% Apple vs. 92+% for Windows).
The numbers I have seen show that there were more Android phones sold last quarter than IPhones and Android sales are accelerating while IPhone sales are slowing. Of the 3 million Iphones sold during the first 3 weeks after the intro of the IPhone 4, only 23% went to first time users of IPhones, while over 90% of the slightly larger number of Android phones sold during the same time period went to new Android users. That works out to at least 4 times as many new Android users during those 3 weeks. In fact the numbers is even higher because Apple also lost a fair number of users during that period while Android lost almost none.
At the rate that Android is getting new users it will probably pass IPhone by the end of summer and within a few years I would expect he numbers to look a bit like the comparison of Macs to Windows PCs. I don't know how Apple could not have learned the lesson of the 80s and 90s where Macs almost disappeared while Windows use exploded. The reasons for Android gaining market share at Apple's expense are virtually identical to what happened in the computer market. Apple is a closed single vendor system while Android is an open multi vendor platform. It is virtually impossible for Apple to compete with every other phone maker, service provider, and app seller/distributor in the world with their one size fits all phone and apps store. Apple has to let go of control or risk becoming irrelevent in the phone market.
I'm glad the others didn't all choose to go out and create new OSes. How many different OSes do we need? We want competition but what we don't want is a large number of small platforms that are unable to get any momentum behind them. Between iOS, Android, WinMo, WebOS, MeeGo, Symbian, and whatever RiM's OS is call we already have more than enough platforms. A bunch of Additional OSes with no more than a few percent market share each is not going to attract developers or drive competition.
I think it's just "BlackBerry OS". Also, don't forget Samsung Bada!
As you say, since Apple is the only manufacturer of IOS phones but many companies make Android phones, it really isn't all that relevant that Motorolla was beaten by Apple.
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(truncated for, yawn, brevity)
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At the rate that Android is getting new users it will probably pass IPhone by the end of summer and within a few years I would expect he numbers to look a bit like the comparison of Macs to Windows PCs. I don't know how Apple could not have learned the lesson of the 80s and 90s where Macs almost disappeared while Windows use exploded. The reasons for Android gaining market share at Apple's expense are virtually identical to what happened in the computer market. Apple is a closed single vendor system while Android is an open multi vendor platform. It is virtually impossible for Apple to compete with every other phone maker, service provider, and app seller/distributor in the world with their one size fits all phone and apps store. Apple has to let go of control or risk becoming irrelevent in the phone market.
It is just amazing how supposedly rational types fail to "get it" i.e. understand the game that's going on, studiously avoiding any solid and logical realities that are even posted in this very thread in favour of their hopes and biases. I admittedly have mine (go, Apple!) but will not willingly blind myself to economic realities, which strongly favour my preference in the short and medium-term, anyway. The long-term prospect is in the hands of the decision-makers and innovators of the near-future, and has yet to manifest itself clearly.
Without a doubt, the entire cellphone handset industry (not just the smartphone section of it) has been rocked onto the back foot and to its very foundations with the advent of a single vendor with a single handset, and has been forced to play catch-up-or-die.
The response has been predictable: imitate the new invader with clones, offer buy-one-get-one-free bargain incentives, and band together under the banner of a single new platform in the hope that sales numbers and market share will resuscitate their ailing fortunes.
The result, which we have seen before in the desktop sector, is the dreaded "race to the bottom" where most users are no longer able to differentiate meaningfully between the formerly-distinct brands and simply go for the cheaper alternatives, which multiply like rabbits in Australia in the 60s (Motorola Droid 2 barely a week after the Droid X, anyone?).
Careful analysis of revenue, profit and user satisfaction reveal just how much of a fatal long-term strategy this approach is - a single vendor with a single product amassing profits that dwarf the rest of the entire industry's collective profit...
Analyses that compare "Android to the iPhone" (not very clever, that) will only mask the hard facts - Apple's business model has adapted very well (nay even thrives and evolves) to the presence of competition and middling to low market share (it carved out a 33% growth in Mac sales this quarter even in the presence of Acer, Dell, Lenovo, Sony, Toshiba et al and dominates the PMP market decisively in the presence of Toshiba, Creative, Sony, Zune et al).
Back to the mobile market, surely it would make sense when comparing the apples-and-oranges of "Android to the iPhone" to include the other iOS products like the iPad and the iPod Touch to the analysis. But then again the Android challenge is either non-existent or nascent in these other sections of the mobile market, and Android's prospects suddenly don't look as shiny as first supposed in the blazing light of the hard facts.
The truth is, any victors over Apple will have to go toe-to-toe (and win) on the real-world metrics of customer satisfaction, market targeting, product integration and outright innovation, period...
... there were more Android phones sold last quarter than IPhones and Android sales are accelerating while IPhone sales are slowing.
Besides the fact that companies are all about profit, moreso than unit sales, you should bear in mind that Apple's sales are highly cyclic, based on annual new releases, and you're looking at their lean quarters. New Android phones are released almost continuously, so that element is not present.
No doubt Android, with multiple vendors, will own a larger market share in the long run, but check the next 2 quarters before you conclude they're already ahead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by captbilly
I don't know how Apple could not have learned the lesson of the 80s and 90s where Macs almost disappeared while Windows use exploded.
They learned the lesson of the late 90s and the 00s, where Apple's model is earning them more profit making Macs than any company is earning making Windows computers. (In fact, more than all the companies making Windows computer put together.)
(Did you miss that chart?)
And they've learned the lesson well: Apple is also making more profit on phones than every other phone maker. It is completely baffling that you think Apple has something to learn from them.
Motorola has greatly increased is profits due to a its push with Verizon Wireless in selling the Android-based Droid, also marketed as the Motorola Milestone.
Wrong. Motorola greatly increased its profits by suing RIM. Motorola made a $162 million profit, which included $228 million from a legal settlement. Without this one-off payment, Motorola would have posted a significant loss. Remember that Motorola's revenues are in the $5.5 billion range. Even $162 million profit isn't much to write home about and it's hardly "phenomenal".
Motorola's problems started before the iPhone was just a twinkle in Steve Jobs' eye. They were a poorly run organisation with with a Luddite CEO and zero focus. This fall from grace would have happened with or without Apple entering the market.
I also don't think that anyone in the know would call Motorola Android's leader. HTC comfortably wins that title by every measure (competence, unit sales, breadth of portfolio, global reach, etc.).
This article ignores the real truth. And that is that Android OS devices have been outselling Apple's OIS devices for the last 3 months. Apple is now in a solid 3rd place for smartphone sales. You may say you need to compare one phone to one phone. But that is one of Apple's weaknesses. The iphone will soon go the way of the MAC which struggles to get 5% of the market.
Oh you poor misguided fool. The iPhone will continue to GROW in popularity. Especially when Jobs opens it up to other US carriers....Android will be sh*tting it's pants so bad it'll need Depends underwear...
I would hardly say the Mac is struggling. Apple has consistently outperformed any manufacture in the market and posted record profits on Mac sales. Sometimes it's not about being the biggest company. It's all bull that one company has to dominate to be successful. Apple has proven that you can be successful, relevant and profitable without being the biggest company in their market.
AMEN AND THANK YOU!!! So glad someone else sees it the way I do....I only see Apple growing....they aren't going anywhere...
This article ignores the real truth. And that is that Android OS devices have been outselling Apple's OIS devices for the last 3 months. Apple is now in a solid 3rd place for smartphone sales. You may say you need to compare one phone to one phone. But that is one of Apple's weaknesses. The iphone will soon go the way of the MAC which struggles to get 5% of the market.
Hahaha.
In Q2, Motorola sold 2.7m, and HTC is expected to have sold 4.5mn. That is 7.2 mn phones, still 1.1mn short of the iPhone. Now, I am sure the other manufacturers would have scrounged together another 1.1mn phones.
IOW, Android devices, at best, sold as many as iPhones did. But (there's always a but!) aren't we comparing OS'es? So, basically, iOS devices outsold Android devices by as many iPod Touch'es, and iPads were sold all around the world.
And all this was done before the iPhone 4 was released, at a time everyone knew it was going to be released.
So, no, Android isn't even close to overtaking iOS.
You should add the (potentially) 4.5 million from HTC and all the other Android phones to that 2.7 million from Motorola. And you should add the iPad and iPod touch to the iPhone figures.
Comparing a single manufacturer or a single product is silly. We should be comparing platforms: Android v iOS.
I should?
Did you read what this article was about? Moreover, even if we did the comparisons you suggest, what conclusions would you arrive at? An equally silly one, perhaps?
Android phones as a collective have already outsold the iPhone and will continue to do so.. I doubt a single Android model can outsell the iPhone though. This is much like PCs, Windows PCs as a collective have and always will outsell the Macs. The only way Apple will ever outsell a collective competition is if they license iOS and OSX for use on other hardware which we all know will not happen.
Comments
Righto...the senior management of the companies mentioned above all have demonstrated they have more foreskin than foresight. Especially, in the last couple of years or so.
Dude, thats awesome! Can I steal that line?
In fact, scrub that. I'm going to steal that line. Thanks!
I'm not a big fan of some of Dilger's news either. I will give him credit that in the past he was spot on on his analysis of Apple and the competition, but that changed shortly after the iPhone came out.
He was more critical of other companies and had a blind spot when it came to Apple's shortcomings. In my book that's just as bad as bashing Apple for no good reason. He hasn't yet turned into a Paul Thurrot, but his articles swing dangerously close to being more fanboi nonsense than objective reporting. On the other hand it's hard to find objective reporting anywhere on the net anymore.
It could be that he hasn't forgotten how Motorola was one of the reasons why Apple was hamstrung in the 90's. Between them and IBM lying to Apple on PPC clock speeds and Apple trying to make other changes to their hardware to be able to be competitive with processors that didn't make enough "umph" to make the market notice. So he could have an axe to grind with Motorola and their new ads aren't helping them win friends over that are Apple users.
He has an axe to grind with pretty much anybody who competes with Apple I'm afraid. But AppleInsider chooses to give him 'airtime', knowing that he will deliver a tasty brew for the fans and at the very least, his pieces always generate hits. And hits are AI's bread and butter as I'm sure you know. So Dilger gets to dump his inflammatory hit-bait on a regular basis.
But the fans lap it up and that's seemingly what matters. And I take the p!ss out of it where the mood drives me. Then I get attacked for attempting to set some record or other straight, with accusations of trolling or Apple-hating. Which means I post in response to those attacks. Which in turn draws new fire, and so on, and so forth, ad infinitum.
Solipsism probably has the right idea in that since he's now studiously ignoring me, that saves about 20 posts per thread. If everyone who thinks I'm an Apple-hater or troll did as solipsism does, the threads would likely be much shorter and far less cantankerous.
Probably boring too with everybody agreeing with each other although saying the same thing in a dozen different ways. But that seems to be what many here actually want. Less of a forum, and more of an Apple cheering section.
C'est la vie.
Much, much worse. While American sales would likely look better, international sales (the majority) would be unbelievably smaller, as CDMA (the technology Verizon uses) is a dying breed and is rapidly being abandoned worldwide.
I don't thing he meant what if it appeared ONLY on Verizon network and was pulled from every other carrier in the world.
Verizon in addition to everything else it is now.
You should add the (potentially) 4.5 million from HTC and all the other Android phones to that 2.7 million from Motorola. And you should add the iPad and iPod touch to the iPhone figures.
Comparing a single manufacturer or a single product is silly. We should be comparing platforms: Android v iOS.
As you say, since Apple is the only manufacturer of IOS phones but many companies make Android phones, it really isn't all that relevant that Motorolla was beaten by Apple. THis would be a bit like saying that Apple sold more computers than ASUS or Dell (I don't know if this is true by the way). It may well be true that Apple sells more computers than one single computer maker but we all know what percentage of the overall computer market Apple has (about 5% Apple vs. 92+% for Windows).
The numbers I have seen show that there were more Android phones sold last quarter than IPhones and Android sales are accelerating while IPhone sales are slowing. Of the 3 million Iphones sold during the first 3 weeks after the intro of the IPhone 4, only 23% went to first time users of IPhones, while over 90% of the slightly larger number of Android phones sold during the same time period went to new Android users. That works out to at least 4 times as many new Android users during those 3 weeks. In fact the numbers is even higher because Apple also lost a fair number of users during that period while Android lost almost none.
At the rate that Android is getting new users it will probably pass IPhone by the end of summer and within a few years I would expect he numbers to look a bit like the comparison of Macs to Windows PCs. I don't know how Apple could not have learned the lesson of the 80s and 90s where Macs almost disappeared while Windows use exploded. The reasons for Android gaining market share at Apple's expense are virtually identical to what happened in the computer market. Apple is a closed single vendor system while Android is an open multi vendor platform. It is virtually impossible for Apple to compete with every other phone maker, service provider, and app seller/distributor in the world with their one size fits all phone and apps store. Apple has to let go of control or risk becoming irrelevent in the phone market.
Comparing a single manufacturer or a single product is silly. We should be comparing platforms: Android v iOS.
But iPhone is a single manufacturer with a single product...
I'm glad the others didn't all choose to go out and create new OSes. How many different OSes do we need? We want competition but what we don't want is a large number of small platforms that are unable to get any momentum behind them. Between iOS, Android, WinMo, WebOS, MeeGo, Symbian, and whatever RiM's OS is call we already have more than enough platforms. A bunch of Additional OSes with no more than a few percent market share each is not going to attract developers or drive competition.
I think it's just "BlackBerry OS". Also, don't forget Samsung Bada!
But iPhone is a single manufacturer with a single product...
No it isn't
As you say, since Apple is the only manufacturer of IOS phones but many companies make Android phones, it really isn't all that relevant that Motorolla was beaten by Apple.
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(truncated for, yawn, brevity)
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At the rate that Android is getting new users it will probably pass IPhone by the end of summer and within a few years I would expect he numbers to look a bit like the comparison of Macs to Windows PCs. I don't know how Apple could not have learned the lesson of the 80s and 90s where Macs almost disappeared while Windows use exploded. The reasons for Android gaining market share at Apple's expense are virtually identical to what happened in the computer market. Apple is a closed single vendor system while Android is an open multi vendor platform. It is virtually impossible for Apple to compete with every other phone maker, service provider, and app seller/distributor in the world with their one size fits all phone and apps store. Apple has to let go of control or risk becoming irrelevent in the phone market.
It is just amazing how supposedly rational types fail to "get it" i.e. understand the game that's going on, studiously avoiding any solid and logical realities that are even posted in this very thread in favour of their hopes and biases. I admittedly have mine (go, Apple!) but will not willingly blind myself to economic realities, which strongly favour my preference in the short and medium-term, anyway. The long-term prospect is in the hands of the decision-makers and innovators of the near-future, and has yet to manifest itself clearly.
Without a doubt, the entire cellphone handset industry (not just the smartphone section of it) has been rocked onto the back foot and to its very foundations with the advent of a single vendor with a single handset, and has been forced to play catch-up-or-die.
The response has been predictable: imitate the new invader with clones, offer buy-one-get-one-free bargain incentives, and band together under the banner of a single new platform in the hope that sales numbers and market share will resuscitate their ailing fortunes.
The result, which we have seen before in the desktop sector, is the dreaded "race to the bottom" where most users are no longer able to differentiate meaningfully between the formerly-distinct brands and simply go for the cheaper alternatives, which multiply like rabbits in Australia in the 60s (Motorola Droid 2 barely a week after the Droid X, anyone?).
Careful analysis of revenue, profit and user satisfaction reveal just how much of a fatal long-term strategy this approach is - a single vendor with a single product amassing profits that dwarf the rest of the entire industry's collective profit...
Analyses that compare "Android to the iPhone" (not very clever, that) will only mask the hard facts - Apple's business model has adapted very well (nay even thrives and evolves) to the presence of competition and middling to low market share (it carved out a 33% growth in Mac sales this quarter even in the presence of Acer, Dell, Lenovo, Sony, Toshiba et al and dominates the PMP market decisively in the presence of Toshiba, Creative, Sony, Zune et al).
Back to the mobile market, surely it would make sense when comparing the apples-and-oranges of "Android to the iPhone" to include the other iOS products like the iPad and the iPod Touch to the analysis. But then again the Android challenge is either non-existent or nascent in these other sections of the mobile market, and Android's prospects suddenly don't look as shiny as first supposed in the blazing light of the hard facts.
The truth is, any victors over Apple will have to go toe-to-toe (and win) on the real-world metrics of customer satisfaction, market targeting, product integration and outright innovation, period...
Lots and lots of interesting stuff!
I read that (twice!) and I'm still not sure what your point was!!
I think you need connotes dude
... there were more Android phones sold last quarter than IPhones and Android sales are accelerating while IPhone sales are slowing.
Besides the fact that companies are all about profit, moreso than unit sales, you should bear in mind that Apple's sales are highly cyclic, based on annual new releases, and you're looking at their lean quarters. New Android phones are released almost continuously, so that element is not present.
No doubt Android, with multiple vendors, will own a larger market share in the long run, but check the next 2 quarters before you conclude they're already ahead.
I don't know how Apple could not have learned the lesson of the 80s and 90s where Macs almost disappeared while Windows use exploded.
They learned the lesson of the late 90s and the 00s, where Apple's model is earning them more profit making Macs than any company is earning making Windows computers. (In fact, more than all the companies making Windows computer put together.)
(Did you miss that chart?)
And they've learned the lesson well: Apple is also making more profit on phones than every other phone maker. It is completely baffling that you think Apple has something to learn from them.
Motorola has greatly increased is profits due to a its push with Verizon Wireless in selling the Android-based Droid, also marketed as the Motorola Milestone.
Wrong. Motorola greatly increased its profits by suing RIM. Motorola made a $162 million profit, which included $228 million from a legal settlement. Without this one-off payment, Motorola would have posted a significant loss. Remember that Motorola's revenues are in the $5.5 billion range. Even $162 million profit isn't much to write home about and it's hardly "phenomenal".
Motorola's problems started before the iPhone was just a twinkle in Steve Jobs' eye. They were a poorly run organisation with with a Luddite CEO and zero focus. This fall from grace would have happened with or without Apple entering the market.
I also don't think that anyone in the know would call Motorola Android's leader. HTC comfortably wins that title by every measure (competence, unit sales, breadth of portfolio, global reach, etc.).
This article ignores the real truth. And that is that Android OS devices have been outselling Apple's OIS devices for the last 3 months. Apple is now in a solid 3rd place for smartphone sales. You may say you need to compare one phone to one phone. But that is one of Apple's weaknesses. The iphone will soon go the way of the MAC which struggles to get 5% of the market.
Oh you poor misguided fool. The iPhone will continue to GROW in popularity. Especially when Jobs opens it up to other US carriers....Android will be sh*tting it's pants so bad it'll need Depends underwear...
I would hardly say the Mac is struggling. Apple has consistently outperformed any manufacture in the market and posted record profits on Mac sales. Sometimes it's not about being the biggest company. It's all bull that one company has to dominate to be successful. Apple has proven that you can be successful, relevant and profitable without being the biggest company in their market.
AMEN AND THANK YOU!!!
This article ignores the real truth. And that is that Android OS devices have been outselling Apple's OIS devices for the last 3 months. Apple is now in a solid 3rd place for smartphone sales. You may say you need to compare one phone to one phone. But that is one of Apple's weaknesses. The iphone will soon go the way of the MAC which struggles to get 5% of the market.
Hahaha.
In Q2, Motorola sold 2.7m, and HTC is expected to have sold 4.5mn. That is 7.2 mn phones, still 1.1mn short of the iPhone. Now, I am sure the other manufacturers would have scrounged together another 1.1mn phones.
IOW, Android devices, at best, sold as many as iPhones did. But (there's always a but!) aren't we comparing OS'es? So, basically, iOS devices outsold Android devices by as many iPod Touch'es, and iPads were sold all around the world.
And all this was done before the iPhone 4 was released, at a time everyone knew it was going to be released.
So, no, Android isn't even close to overtaking iOS.
You should add the (potentially) 4.5 million from HTC and all the other Android phones to that 2.7 million from Motorola. And you should add the iPad and iPod touch to the iPhone figures.
Comparing a single manufacturer or a single product is silly. We should be comparing platforms: Android v iOS.
I should?
Did you read what this article was about? Moreover, even if we did the comparisons you suggest, what conclusions would you arrive at? An equally silly one, perhaps?
No it isn't
Yes it is.
What are the sales figures of all Android phones vs all iOS Phones? As that's the number that really matters.
Matters to whom? Motorola's shareholders? Um.....no.