"Putting the onus on any owners of a product to obtain a remedy to a design flaw is not acceptable to us," wrote Consumer Reports.
In reality the bumper is by no means satisfactory protection against the antenna ``problem' '. The thing rather cripples phone, and does not cure completely that ``issue' ', which is honestly barely noticeable within daily usage.
What a bunch of Ding Dongs! Apple says they will still give out their case for those who ask. Why should they have to hand out third party cases like it is Halloween??!
Quote:
Originally Posted by marokero
+1 here. I haven't experinced problems thus far, and I do believe if there is a problem, it's with AT&T's network. I live less than 2 miles from a big AT&T complex and I get only three bars.
I have a stupid LG flip phone that does stuff like texting, but I can't figure that out. I have it as a GoPhone since I work at home most of the time and use it sporatically. Even at home more often than not I don't get a signal. And I am in the Monterey Bay area in California, not exactly the middle of no where. It is stupid ATT's network on the LG obviously.
My boyfriend has a subscription to Consumer Reports. I take their stuff with a grain of salt. I find the customer reviews (you know like from real Customers) from amazon.com or other big online opinion sites to be way more helpful.
I hope that you realize Apple did the same thing on their forums regarding the iPhone antenna issues.
Guess Apple thinks censorship is good too, huh?
CR's supposed goal is to provide unbiased information to consumers about a variety of products/brands. Apple's is to sell us their stuff by making it as good as possible and presenting it in the best light possible. Just like amazon tries to sell the kindle by comparing only the display to the iPad--rather than focusing on apps, for example. Put another way, apple, amazon, etc, play for a team. CR claims to be a referee. Most people know the difference between marketing and "unbiased" information. Except maybe for you.
And censorship adresses government actions--not whether a company allows or disallows comments on an internet thread. In fact, a moderator could ban your uninformed comment and that would not be censorship at all (hint to moderator). What CR is engaging in is duplicity. They claim that they are for the consumer and yet prevent possibly useful information from ever reaching that consumer by cutting off opposing viewpoints in their comments section.
Consumer Reports is a highly respected magazine and online company
You mean that same Consumer Reports that repeatedly told us that Toyota makes the best cars in the world while these kinds of things were happening all over the country?
Quote:
On August 28 Mark Saylor the California Highway Patrol cop in San Diego tried to stop his Toyota Lexus ES 350 with his wife, daughter and his brother in law on board while his 272 horsepower car drove them to their deaths. They screamed in horror and said ? were in trouble there?s no brakes? as he hit another vehicle slammed into an embankment and died along with all the other passengers.
CR has not had any credibility for a very long time. They've been caught faking tests. They've demonstrated repeatedly that they don't know the first thing about the items they test. Anyone with decent prior knowledge of an item that they read about in CR is bound to howl with laughter at CR's ineptitude. They are especially egregious when it comes to cars and electronics.
I've tried to reproduce the "death touch" on over 45 iPhone 4's now without EVER seeing bars drop.
I've sold loads of them and had ZERO returns.
I've demonstrated my caseless iPhone 4 to hundreds of people and they have been unable to make the bars drop.
I spend most of my day in an area with only 2G coverage at 3-4 bars.
My sample size is fifteen times larger than CR's pseudo-scientific test of THREE iPhones, to anyone who has done the MOST BASIC high school level statistics it is LAUGHABLE.
I got the case because it was free, I also show people how they can get a free case by downloading the App.
I've had zero dropped calls or issues with missed calls.
I could see why you'd say that, but I disagree. Cupping the left corner drops about 2 bars of reception. On the other hand, the new antenna design gives me noticeably better reception when it is not cupped. Calls from my bedroom used to drop every 10 minutes or so. Now drops are pretty rare.
Apple External Antenna Design:
Pros
+Better reception (usually)
+External rigidity (no more hairline fractures hopefully)
+Increased internal volume
+thinner design
Cons
-Drops 2 bars when cupped
Apple provided complimentary covers to early customers who may have been uninformed about the antenna issue. After 3 months, it no secret and I see no reason why Apple should be vilified for discontinuing this program.
What’s interesting about that dropped bars when cupped, which maxed out at 24 dB according to AnandTech, is that the new design can hold a call so much better than the old design that even with that extra drop in dB you are still better off.
In other words, the iPhone 4 dropped 24.6 dB when cupped tightly while the Nexus One dropped HTC Nexus One 17.7 dB. That is a difference of 6.9 dB. However, the iPhone 4 can make and hold a call at −120 dB while others are dead at −113 dB. That means the iPhone 4’s overall usage when cupping tightly just squeezes ahead of the Nexus One.
Unfortunately, no one cares about other phones enough to do more in-depth testing the way AnandTech first did and since this really is the best iPhone Apple has ever created, the best phone on the market and clear benefit for the consumer we’ll probably never have tests showing exactly how much of a benefit this new design is over other phones.
To recap AnandTech’s take on the iPhone 4 despite the anti-Apple crowd using their results from this article as a reason to say that it’s a “design flaw” caused by a “short circuit” of the antennas.
The Antenna is Improved
From my day of testing, I've determined that the iPhone 4 performs much better than the 3GS in situations where signal is very low, at -113 dBm (1 bar). Previously, dropping this low all but guaranteed that calls would drop, fail to be placed, and data would no longer be transacted at all. I can honestly say that I've never held onto so many calls and data simultaneously on 1 bar at -113 dBm as I have with the iPhone 4, so it's readily apparent that the new baseband hardware is much more sensitive compared to what was in the 3GS. The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.
What’s interesting about that dropped bars when cupped, which maxed out at 24 dB according to AnandTech, is that the new design can hold a call so much better than the old design that even with that extra drop in dB you are still better off.
In other words, the iPhone 4 dropped 24.6 dB when cupped tightly while the Nexus One dropped HTC Nexus One 17.7 dB. That is a difference of 6.9 dB. However, the iPhone 4 can make and hold a call at −120 dB while others are dead at −113 dB. That means the iPhone 4’s overall usage when cupping tightly just squeezes ahead of the Nexus One.
Unfortunately, no one cares about other phones enough to do more in-depth testing the way AnandTech first did and since this really is the best iPhone Apple has ever created, the best phone on the market and clear benefit for the consumer we’ll probably never have tests showing exactly how much of a benefit this new design is over other phones.
To recap AnandTech’s take on the iPhone 4 despite the anti-Apple crowd using their results from this article as a reason to say that it’s a “design flaw” caused by a “short circuit” of the antennas.
Some of your logic is flawed. First, AnandTech never said the HTC Nexus One or any other phone (except the iphone 3GS) is dead at -113 db. Second, you are comparing 'cupping tightly' db loss results when the true issue is the 'naturally holding' db loss results. The fact remains it is a design flaw that I'm sure Apple will fix in the next version.
They are both censorship, but CR leads you to misinformation instead of understanding.
That is a common defense for censorship. It has been used by every repressive regime in the world, by religious fanatics, and by other despicable creatures.
The answer to bad speech is more good speech. Not the repression of ideas.
Some of your logic is flawed. First, AnandTech never said the HTC Nexus One or any other phone (except the iphone 3GS) is dead at -113 db. Second, you are comparing 'cupping tightly' db loss results when the true issue is the 'naturally holding' db loss results. The fact remains it is a design flaw that I'm sure Apple will fix in the next version.
Your right, it was the 3GS that would drop a call at -113 dB while the iPhone 4 would hold a call at -120 dB. So the logic isnt’ flawed, just my previous data. This new data works out better as it means that the “design flaw” is with the 3GS, not the iPhone 4 since it can’t maintain a call at −113 dB.
So, can the Nexus One make and maintain a call at −120 dB and can AnandTech’s claim that the "reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.” be discounted?
Because the mere mention of one of Apple's official enemies garners them many hits, and those hits translate directly into dollars.
They are a business. They try to make money. And they know they will make more if they put CR or Android or Google or Microsoft or Adobe or any other enemy in their headline.
Look at the numbers of replies to articles. It is rare that they break 100 UNLESS some enemy is mentioned. Then the hit count goes through the roof, and AI makes bank.
Ah hah! So that's what they're up to! Those devils!
Of course you could make the argument that Apple wont fix the problem because if they do it would be admitting that they designed the antenna wrong. Hmmm....
You don't understand.
CR is horrible and corrupt and liars.
Apple made no mistake.
If you start with these premises, conclusions flow like water.
Your right, it was the 3GS that would drop a call at -113 dB while the iPhone 4 would hold a call at -120 dB. So the logic isnt’ flawed, just my previous data. This new data works out better as it means that the “design flaw” is with the 3GS, not the iPhone 4 since it can’t maintain a call at −113 dB.
So, can the Nexus One make and maintain a call at −120 dB and can AnandTech’s claim that the "reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.” be discounted?
No, the design flaw is that the iPhone 3GS only loses 2 db when holding the phone naturally, but naturally holding the iPhone 4 loses 20 db. So if you are in an area that has a -105 db signal (without holding the phone), if you are naturally holding the iPhone 3GS, you will still have a signal. But when naturally holding the iPhone 4, you will not have a signal.
No, the design flaw is that the iPhone 3GS only loses 2 db when holding the phone naturally, but naturally holding the iPhone 4 loses 20 db. So if you are in an area that has a -110 db signal (without holding the phone), if you are naturally holding the iPhone 3GS, you will still be ok. But when naturally holding the iPhone 4, you will not have a signal.
And yet it can still hold a call a much lower dB level than any other phone tested. Sounds to me like you are trying to force some anti-Apple agenda despite the very evidence that showed the iPhone 4?s additional drop in dB also showed that it held a call better with a conclusion that the "reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.?
I?ll tell you what. You can continue to hate on the iPhone while I (and millions of others) continue to enjoy it increased reception.
And yet it can still hold a call a much lower dB level than any other phone tested. Sounds to me like you are trying to force some anti-Apple agenda despite the very evidence that showed the iPhone 4?s additional drop in dB also showed that it held a call better with a conclusion that the "reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.?
The consumer buying advice group announced Monday on its official blog that it continues not to recommend the iPhone 4. Apple's decision to discontinue the iPhone 4 free case program was seen as "less consumer-friendly."
I usually hold CR in high regard, but this is starting to sound like blatant headline-grabbing. I don't know what the percentage is but my guess is a majority of iPhone buyers were going to get a case anyway. Apple did not need to give these people their cases for free, but did so because CR made a big deal of it.
Is there a flaw in the iPhone? Probably, but CR is only pushing down on it to boost their own ego. Not because they "care" about consumers.
And yet it can still hold a call a much lower dB level than any other phone tested. Sounds to me like you are trying to force some anti-Apple agenda despite the very evidence that showed the iPhone 4’s additional drop in dB also showed that it held a call better with a conclusion that the "reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.”
I’ll tell you what. You can continue to hate on the iPhone while I (and millions of others) continue to enjoy it increased reception.
What part in my last 2 posts do you not understand ? First, where do you show a test that proves iPhone 4 can hold on to a signal better then any other phone ? AnandTech only showed the iPhone 4 can hold on to a signal better then the iPhone 3GS. And that is just using raw db results.
Second, like I said earlier, if you are in an area where the signal is -105 db (untouched phone). The iPhone 3GS when being naturally held, will lose 2db and have a signal of -107 db. And it will still have a signal. But the iPhone 4 in a -105 db area being naturally held, will lose 20 db and only have -125 db. It will not be able to hold a call. AnandTech showed the limit of the iPhone 3GS is -113 db and the limit for the iPhone 4 is -120 db. So in the above real world example, the iPhone 3GS will be able to hold a call, while the iPhone 4 will not.
BTW, I love my iPhone 4. But I also know reality and I'm not a blind Apple follower. The free Apple case fixes their design flaw.
According to ski1?s argument it?s when "held wrong" that the iPhone 4 is even more superior to the other phones as the difference in dB is lessened and the iPhone 4 will be able to hold a call at −120 dB while the 3GS will drop at −113 dB.
And considering the previous argument from the supposed email from Jobs saying not to hold it wrong, the dissenters clearly stated that holding it wrong was the natural way to hold it. So no matter how you slice it the iPhone 4 is, as AnandTech states, "massively better... in actual use.?
Comments
"Putting the onus on any owners of a product to obtain a remedy to a design flaw is not acceptable to us," wrote Consumer Reports.
In reality the bumper is by no means satisfactory protection against the antenna ``problem' '. The thing rather cripples phone, and does not cure completely that ``issue' ', which is honestly barely noticeable within daily usage.
+1 here. I haven't experinced problems thus far, and I do believe if there is a problem, it's with AT&T's network. I live less than 2 miles from a big AT&T complex and I get only three bars.
I have a stupid LG flip phone that does stuff like texting, but I can't figure that out. I have it as a GoPhone since I work at home most of the time and use it sporatically. Even at home more often than not I don't get a signal. And I am in the Monterey Bay area in California, not exactly the middle of no where. It is stupid ATT's network on the LG obviously.
My boyfriend has a subscription to Consumer Reports. I take their stuff with a grain of salt. I find the customer reviews (you know like from real Customers) from amazon.com or other big online opinion sites to be way more helpful.
I find CR's stance to be just laughable.
It?s not the same thing though - Apple is not censoring - they are moderating based on a set agreed upon set of rules between owner and member.
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
I hope that you realize Apple did the same thing on their forums regarding the iPhone antenna issues.
Guess Apple thinks censorship is good too, huh?
CR's supposed goal is to provide unbiased information to consumers about a variety of products/brands. Apple's is to sell us their stuff by making it as good as possible and presenting it in the best light possible. Just like amazon tries to sell the kindle by comparing only the display to the iPad--rather than focusing on apps, for example. Put another way, apple, amazon, etc, play for a team. CR claims to be a referee. Most people know the difference between marketing and "unbiased" information. Except maybe for you.
And censorship adresses government actions--not whether a company allows or disallows comments on an internet thread. In fact, a moderator could ban your uninformed comment and that would not be censorship at all (hint to moderator). What CR is engaging in is duplicity. They claim that they are for the consumer and yet prevent possibly useful information from ever reaching that consumer by cutting off opposing viewpoints in their comments section.
Consumer Reports is a highly respected magazine and online company
You mean that same Consumer Reports that repeatedly told us that Toyota makes the best cars in the world while these kinds of things were happening all over the country?
On August 28 Mark Saylor the California Highway Patrol cop in San Diego tried to stop his Toyota Lexus ES 350 with his wife, daughter and his brother in law on board while his 272 horsepower car drove them to their deaths. They screamed in horror and said ? were in trouble there?s no brakes? as he hit another vehicle slammed into an embankment and died along with all the other passengers.
CR has not had any credibility for a very long time. They've been caught faking tests. They've demonstrated repeatedly that they don't know the first thing about the items they test. Anyone with decent prior knowledge of an item that they read about in CR is bound to howl with laughter at CR's ineptitude. They are especially egregious when it comes to cars and electronics.
I've sold loads of them and had ZERO returns.
I've demonstrated my caseless iPhone 4 to hundreds of people and they have been unable to make the bars drop.
I spend most of my day in an area with only 2G coverage at 3-4 bars.
My sample size is fifteen times larger than CR's pseudo-scientific test of THREE iPhones, to anyone who has done the MOST BASIC high school level statistics it is LAUGHABLE.
I got the case because it was free, I also show people how they can get a free case by downloading the App.
I've had zero dropped calls or issues with missed calls.
I could see why you'd say that, but I disagree. Cupping the left corner drops about 2 bars of reception. On the other hand, the new antenna design gives me noticeably better reception when it is not cupped. Calls from my bedroom used to drop every 10 minutes or so. Now drops are pretty rare.
Apple External Antenna Design:
Pros
+Better reception (usually)
+External rigidity (no more hairline fractures hopefully)
+Increased internal volume
+thinner design
Cons
-Drops 2 bars when cupped
Apple provided complimentary covers to early customers who may have been uninformed about the antenna issue. After 3 months, it no secret and I see no reason why Apple should be vilified for discontinuing this program.
What’s interesting about that dropped bars when cupped, which maxed out at 24 dB according to AnandTech, is that the new design can hold a call so much better than the old design that even with that extra drop in dB you are still better off.
In other words, the iPhone 4 dropped 24.6 dB when cupped tightly while the Nexus One dropped HTC Nexus One 17.7 dB. That is a difference of 6.9 dB. However, the iPhone 4 can make and hold a call at −120 dB while others are dead at −113 dB. That means the iPhone 4’s overall usage when cupping tightly just squeezes ahead of the Nexus One.
Unfortunately, no one cares about other phones enough to do more in-depth testing the way AnandTech first did and since this really is the best iPhone Apple has ever created, the best phone on the market and clear benefit for the consumer we’ll probably never have tests showing exactly how much of a benefit this new design is over other phones.
To recap AnandTech’s take on the iPhone 4 despite the anti-Apple crowd using their results from this article as a reason to say that it’s a “design flaw” caused by a “short circuit” of the antennas.
What’s interesting about that dropped bars when cupped, which maxed out at 24 dB according to AnandTech, is that the new design can hold a call so much better than the old design that even with that extra drop in dB you are still better off.
In other words, the iPhone 4 dropped 24.6 dB when cupped tightly while the Nexus One dropped HTC Nexus One 17.7 dB. That is a difference of 6.9 dB. However, the iPhone 4 can make and hold a call at −120 dB while others are dead at −113 dB. That means the iPhone 4’s overall usage when cupping tightly just squeezes ahead of the Nexus One.
Unfortunately, no one cares about other phones enough to do more in-depth testing the way AnandTech first did and since this really is the best iPhone Apple has ever created, the best phone on the market and clear benefit for the consumer we’ll probably never have tests showing exactly how much of a benefit this new design is over other phones.
To recap AnandTech’s take on the iPhone 4 despite the anti-Apple crowd using their results from this article as a reason to say that it’s a “design flaw” caused by a “short circuit” of the antennas.
Some of your logic is flawed. First, AnandTech never said the HTC Nexus One or any other phone (except the iphone 3GS) is dead at -113 db. Second, you are comparing 'cupping tightly' db loss results when the true issue is the 'naturally holding' db loss results. The fact remains it is a design flaw that I'm sure Apple will fix in the next version.
They are both censorship, but CR leads you to misinformation instead of understanding.
That is a common defense for censorship. It has been used by every repressive regime in the world, by religious fanatics, and by other despicable creatures.
The answer to bad speech is more good speech. Not the repression of ideas.
Some of your logic is flawed. First, AnandTech never said the HTC Nexus One or any other phone (except the iphone 3GS) is dead at -113 db. Second, you are comparing 'cupping tightly' db loss results when the true issue is the 'naturally holding' db loss results. The fact remains it is a design flaw that I'm sure Apple will fix in the next version.
Your right, it was the 3GS that would drop a call at -113 dB while the iPhone 4 would hold a call at -120 dB. So the logic isnt’ flawed, just my previous data. This new data works out better as it means that the “design flaw” is with the 3GS, not the iPhone 4 since it can’t maintain a call at −113 dB.
So, can the Nexus One make and maintain a call at −120 dB and can AnandTech’s claim that the "reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.” be discounted?
And AI cares about CR because...?
Because the mere mention of one of Apple's official enemies garners them many hits, and those hits translate directly into dollars.
They are a business. They try to make money. And they know they will make more if they put CR or Android or Google or Microsoft or Adobe or any other enemy in their headline.
Look at the numbers of replies to articles. It is rare that they break 100 UNLESS some enemy is mentioned. Then the hit count goes through the roof, and AI makes bank.
Ah hah! So that's what they're up to! Those devils!
Of course you could make the argument that Apple wont fix the problem because if they do it would be admitting that they designed the antenna wrong. Hmmm....
You don't understand.
CR is horrible and corrupt and liars.
Apple made no mistake.
If you start with these premises, conclusions flow like water.
Apple says it doesn't seem to be as big of a problem as it did initially... because they've been giving away free cases and people use them. DUH.
Why shouldn't Apple be compelled to provide a choice of case, when the flawed antenna design was their choice?
You don't understand.
CR is horrible and corrupt and liars.
Apple made no mistake.
If you start with these premises, conclusions flow like water.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us
Your right, it was the 3GS that would drop a call at -113 dB while the iPhone 4 would hold a call at -120 dB. So the logic isnt’ flawed, just my previous data. This new data works out better as it means that the “design flaw” is with the 3GS, not the iPhone 4 since it can’t maintain a call at −113 dB.
So, can the Nexus One make and maintain a call at −120 dB and can AnandTech’s claim that the "reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.” be discounted?
No, the design flaw is that the iPhone 3GS only loses 2 db when holding the phone naturally, but naturally holding the iPhone 4 loses 20 db. So if you are in an area that has a -105 db signal (without holding the phone), if you are naturally holding the iPhone 3GS, you will still have a signal. But when naturally holding the iPhone 4, you will not have a signal.
No, the design flaw is that the iPhone 3GS only loses 2 db when holding the phone naturally, but naturally holding the iPhone 4 loses 20 db. So if you are in an area that has a -110 db signal (without holding the phone), if you are naturally holding the iPhone 3GS, you will still be ok. But when naturally holding the iPhone 4, you will not have a signal.
And yet it can still hold a call a much lower dB level than any other phone tested. Sounds to me like you are trying to force some anti-Apple agenda despite the very evidence that showed the iPhone 4?s additional drop in dB also showed that it held a call better with a conclusion that the "reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.?
I?ll tell you what. You can continue to hate on the iPhone while I (and millions of others) continue to enjoy it increased reception.
And yet it can still hold a call a much lower dB level than any other phone tested. Sounds to me like you are trying to force some anti-Apple agenda despite the very evidence that showed the iPhone 4?s additional drop in dB also showed that it held a call better with a conclusion that the "reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.?
Not when held "wrong".
The consumer buying advice group announced Monday on its official blog that it continues not to recommend the iPhone 4. Apple's decision to discontinue the iPhone 4 free case program was seen as "less consumer-friendly."
I usually hold CR in high regard, but this is starting to sound like blatant headline-grabbing. I don't know what the percentage is but my guess is a majority of iPhone buyers were going to get a case anyway. Apple did not need to give these people their cases for free, but did so because CR made a big deal of it.
Is there a flaw in the iPhone? Probably, but CR is only pushing down on it to boost their own ego. Not because they "care" about consumers.
And yet it can still hold a call a much lower dB level than any other phone tested. Sounds to me like you are trying to force some anti-Apple agenda despite the very evidence that showed the iPhone 4’s additional drop in dB also showed that it held a call better with a conclusion that the "reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use.”
I’ll tell you what. You can continue to hate on the iPhone while I (and millions of others) continue to enjoy it increased reception.
What part in my last 2 posts do you not understand ? First, where do you show a test that proves iPhone 4 can hold on to a signal better then any other phone ? AnandTech only showed the iPhone 4 can hold on to a signal better then the iPhone 3GS. And that is just using raw db results.
Second, like I said earlier, if you are in an area where the signal is -105 db (untouched phone). The iPhone 3GS when being naturally held, will lose 2db and have a signal of -107 db. And it will still have a signal. But the iPhone 4 in a -105 db area being naturally held, will lose 20 db and only have -125 db. It will not be able to hold a call. AnandTech showed the limit of the iPhone 3GS is -113 db and the limit for the iPhone 4 is -120 db. So in the above real world example, the iPhone 3GS will be able to hold a call, while the iPhone 4 will not.
BTW, I love my iPhone 4. But I also know reality and I'm not a blind Apple follower. The free Apple case fixes their design flaw.
Not when held "wrong".
According to ski1?s argument it?s when "held wrong" that the iPhone 4 is even more superior to the other phones as the difference in dB is lessened and the iPhone 4 will be able to hold a call at −120 dB while the 3GS will drop at −113 dB.
And considering the previous argument from the supposed email from Jobs saying not to hold it wrong, the dissenters clearly stated that holding it wrong was the natural way to hold it. So no matter how you slice it the iPhone 4 is, as AnandTech states, "massively better... in actual use.?