I do not understand the anger directed at Patrick's rant.
From macs to iphones, i've been an Apple guy for a long, long time. But i will not buy an iPad until it allows me to control my own content without having to go through that unspeakable thing called iTunes.
It became obvious to me that the main reason why there is no card reader on the iPad afterall, is that, once the mass storage interface implemented (how else can a card reader work properly?), this would give the user a file system on a card and make the device usable outside the "iTunes ecosystem". Protecting Apple's mark-ups on device flash storage is only a secondary reason.
Anyway, why be so harsh on critics? Most of my (non-mac) friends absolutely hate that iTunes they have to use with their ipods, iphones, ipads. iTunes is the only Apple software for the pc that they have seen. I am convinced that the (justified) negative perception of iTunes damages Apple's mac prospects long term.
The market demonstrates that those same issues are not significantly near as relevant for the average user. You and your group of friends may not be typical of the vast group of purchasers for whom the ecosystem is friendly enough and useable enough to let them do what they wish. Apparently you only read the bits of Lo's commentary with which you agree, and missed the the huge dump of "CE-Oh no he didn't" in his commentary.
Just because a BOD votes you into the role of CEO, doesn't mean you are well-equiped to handle providing public commentary about highly successful and profitable other companies. I mean, look at the routine number of doofus comments that have been delivered by the RIM co-CEOs, by Nokia's former CEO, Michael Dell, Steve "the iPhone will never sell" Balmer, and even on occasion Jobs has delivered a faux pas in public commentary.
Generics will catch up. A couple of years late, but they will catch up. Would I rather pay $199 for an iPad, sure. The Chinese will back Lenovo so hard, Apple will forget what street its bank is on.
I'm just curious -- why are you so excited for a world where mediocrity and imitation are valued above innovation and quality? Is it simply because your investment portfolio sits in such companies?
Without the Linux kernel GNU would be dead in the water with no viable operating system. All they would have is re-appropriated BSD unix code. The BSD guys would shrug and go on their way and everyone else would use their stuff, rather than the GNU stuff, due to the viral licensing restrictions. But because Linux is far better staffed with regular contributors that actively push and extend the platform it rightly has ascended past the traditional unixes and users are quite comfortable with the GPL2 that Linus has posted his code under.
Without that active Linux community, there isn't anything compelling to build on compared to the rest of what's out there. GNU would be just another license, with far harsher terms for consumers of code, and that would lead to irrelevance.
GNU isn't a license.
OS X isn't called 'XNU'
why? you go figure it out.
where would FSF be without linux? good chance not as far along as they are now but who knows, they could have picked up some bsd and kept chuggin right along, maybe even using parts of darwin. who knows? why does it matter? you don't want to give credit to hard work done by programmers other than linus?
linus has done some good stuff and so have others. you seem to hate stallman yet love jobs. what has jobs done that is so worth praise? made lots of money?
jobs would be selling suits or used cars if he hadn't of met wozniak.
Right. Because NetGear was going to usher in a new era in mobile computing, lol. Or for that matter, Android.
If the success of the iPod proves anything, it's that Patrick Lo is sometimes wrong. Giving customers what they want is the key to success. And by the way, the last NetGear router I bought was defective out of the box, so I returned it and got an Apple AirPort Extreme instead. Best decision ever, Patrick.
This is an embarrassing thing for anyone to have put to record, let alone the CEO of a company like Netgear. I'm sorry, but I can't take any such rant seriously when it comes from the CEO of a company that manufactures cheap, unreliable consumer devices. And their enterprise offerings are just poorly executed, gussied-up consumer hardware with all the latest acronyms and none of the reliability or configurability of real business-grade players like Cisco, Q-Logic, HP, EdgeCore, etc. It's like Linksys putting the Cisco name on their WRT series. It's still just a consumer router ...
iOS has been adopted or is in the process of being adopted in 88 of the Fortune 100 companies. What's Androids count, since he mentioned it? How many articles have we read on this site about Android not living up to expectations, not attracting enough developers, not being adopted by as many phones / enterprises as originally hoped for? Honestly his rant just seems ignorant of the mobile computing market, which is no surprise since his company has no mobile computer offerings of any kind. What's the reason to trash Flash, he asks? Jobs posted a whole massive letter detailing the whole deal. Seemed pretty well thought out and founded in actual business and software concerns. Kinda exactly opposite to the degree of preparation you can see behind Lo's words.
Sounds to me like a fanboy in the wrong direction, he just hates 'cause he's decided to hate. What's that called? Notafanboy? He's a APL notafanboy and no manner of iOS success and Android failure is going to change his mind!
Well rawr it up Lo, get your 15 minutes of fame. Looking forward to the day you lose footing in the consumer market and your enterprise line can no longer keep you afloat.
EDIT: It seems several of my points were already brought up, sorry about that, and good points all.
where would FSF be without linux? good chance not as far along as they are now but who knows, they could have picked up some bsd and kept chuggin right along, maybe even using parts of darwin. who knows? why does it matter? you don't want to give credit to hard work done by programmers other than linus?
linus has done some good stuff and so have others. you seem to hate stallman yet love jobs. what has jobs done that is so worth praise? made lots of money?
jobs would be selling suits or used cars if he hadn't of met wozniak.
Wozniak would be an anonymous HP engineer he hadn't met Jobs.
Apple would have been long gone if Jobs hadn't returned to Apple a decade ago and brought NeXTSTEP with him.
The talented animators and artists at Pixar would be toiling away at who knows where instead of pursuing the dream of pioneering computer-animated feature films.
What has Jobs done that is so worth praise? How about everything that's not engineering needed to bring great products to market? Apparently it is a skill that you underappreciate. Anybody can run Apple, right John Sculley? Right Gil Amelio?
So here's a guy whose company generates sales of less than ONE ONE-HUNDREDTH of Apple's - an also-ran in its business segment - who makes expansive pronouncements about the guy who's built the world's largest tech sector company in terms of market cap. Who's kidding who about ego? His remarks equate to the old joke about the pissant crawling up the elephant's leg with rape on its mind.
Or maybe it's the venue - Australia - or jet leg. Invective is a particular pastime in Australia, as is "having a wank."
Wozniak would be an anonymous HP engineer he hadn't met Jobs.
Apple would have been long gone if Jobs hadn't returned to Apple a decade ago and brought NeXTSTEP with him.
The talented animators and artists at Pixar would be toiling away at who knows where instead of pursuing the dream of pioneering computer-animated feature films.
What has Jobs done that is so worth praise? How about everything that's not engineering needed to bring great products to market? Apparently it is a skill that you underappreciate. Anybody can run Apple, right John Sculley? Right Gil Amelio?
"Jobs returned to his previous job at Atari and was given the task of creating a circuit board for the game Breakout. According to Atari founder Nolan Bushnell, Atari had offered US$100 for each chip that was eliminated in the machine. Jobs had little interest or knowledge in circuit board design and made a deal with Wozniak to split the bonus evenly between them if Wozniak could minimize the number of chips. Much to the amazement of Atari, Wozniak reduced the number of chips by 50, a design so tight that it was impossible to reproduce on an assembly line. At the time, Jobs told Wozniak that Atari had only given them $700 (instead of the actual $5000) and that Wozniak's share was thus $350.[38][39][40][41][42][43]" - from wikipedia
he's a clever piece of work. will give him that. nice how he f***** his own best(?) friend around even back then.
I do not understand the anger directed at Patrick's rant.
From macs to iphones, i've been an Apple guy for a long, long time. But i will not buy an iPad until it allows me to control my own content without having to go through that unspeakable thing called iTunes.
iTunes is just a sync tool. In what way do you "not control" your content? I assume you are not talking about piracy (but if you were, the obvious answer is jailbreak).
I usually don't buy my music from iTunes, I buy it from Amazon and I buy my books directly from Audible.com instead of through the iTunes store and I get my video fix via Netflix. So why is this guy ranting about iTunes not being open enough? The only part about it that's really closed is the Apps Store but that's because it's tightly tied to the iPhone/iPod/iPad. If I use a different power supply with a Netgear router will they still honor the warranty?
I'm just curious -- why are you so excited for a world where mediocrity and imitation are valued above innovation and quality? Is it simply because your investment portfolio sits in such companies?
Interesting slur. I suppose because S Jobs is an American, we can gloat about our national cleverness. Copying is exactly what Toyota did to Chevrolet and Rover in about 1965. my investment portfolio is a whole lot of both Asia and too much AAPL. This thread is mostly face slapping an executive because he's not S Jobs. Well we're all not. He probably did ok in life. He's predicting future events, not making a summary of present events every third grader knows. It's a worthwhile thought exercise to imagine Apples magic will end. Magic always does end. You can browbeat him for saying that, but in time, open source will effectively replicate all aspects of AAPL's innovations of 2005-2010. How long can the magic last... More years. But the rest of world isnt all idiots. They will make good phones and tablets too. Shockingly good. Apples rise was predicated on imaginative thinking. Their fall, too, will not be what all the bozos out there expect. Analysts were wrong about AAPL in 2001 and they are just as stupid today, endlessly repeating sound bytes about AAPL having a secure market. Their business is mostly younger than some of my underwear. It won't endure without a ton of good luck and superhuman levels of prudence. Keep in mind, 10 years ago everybody thought GE could do no wrong.
In what way were either VHS or Windows ever open? VHS was just a tape format that was supported by a different band of manufacturers then BetaMax which was pushed by Sony. How did that benefit anyone other then those manufacturers?
Microsoft simply stole anyone elses ideas for its own use. Windows is a closed proprietary piece of crap. If it is so great why doesn't his company use that for its emedded OS? I've always used Netgear, but all those products are just made in China crap, so I guess in the future I'll buy one that just steals all its ideas from Netgear.
I was talking about Apple killing off its professional market, the ones who produce the content that the rest are consuming. As of today you can no longer buy an XServe as Apple no longer sells them. There is no replacement (and in production houses, replacing rack mounted redundant machines with Mac Pros or Mac Minis is not possible or realistic). I was talking about how Apple is neglecting its professional software (FCP Studio, FCP Server, XSan) to such an extent that Adobe's software is now much, much better and, to top that, really does run better on Windows.
Apple is making a killing off consumer devices which are really good and provide a seamless experience, but Android will eventually eat up much of that market, leaving Apple with no core of loyal professionals that it had back when Macs were only popular amongst creative professional users.
Finally, a like-minded person on the forum. I've been trumpeting Apple's disregard or neglect of it's professional users for a while now. Falls on deaf ears here unfortunately. Most of the forum users here are just market parasites - checking in before they option - making muny while offering zero value... Hey, just like their comments
Anyways, i'm in agreement with you on all points. It's the difference between real life experience and Apple lala land everything is wonderful and magical.
... you don't want to give credit to hard work done by programmers other than linus? ...
I don't want to see people who didn't do Linus's hard work steal credit for it by prepending something on to 'Linux' that distorts reality. It's "Linux". There is no such thing as "GNU Linux". (And "GNU/Linux" is equally dishonest.)
Don't get baited. That was screamingfist, our resident troll who has found a very liberal set of mods and admins so he's well dug in.
Thanks for the heads-up, although I don't mind providing some education to those in need. He may not read my post, but others out there will, and will learn from my well reasoned comments. To quote Michael Scott, it's a win win win.
Comments
I do not understand the anger directed at Patrick's rant.
From macs to iphones, i've been an Apple guy for a long, long time. But i will not buy an iPad until it allows me to control my own content without having to go through that unspeakable thing called iTunes.
It became obvious to me that the main reason why there is no card reader on the iPad afterall, is that, once the mass storage interface implemented (how else can a card reader work properly?), this would give the user a file system on a card and make the device usable outside the "iTunes ecosystem". Protecting Apple's mark-ups on device flash storage is only a secondary reason.
Anyway, why be so harsh on critics? Most of my (non-mac) friends absolutely hate that iTunes they have to use with their ipods, iphones, ipads. iTunes is the only Apple software for the pc that they have seen. I am convinced that the (justified) negative perception of iTunes damages Apple's mac prospects long term.
The market demonstrates that those same issues are not significantly near as relevant for the average user. You and your group of friends may not be typical of the vast group of purchasers for whom the ecosystem is friendly enough and useable enough to let them do what they wish. Apparently you only read the bits of Lo's commentary with which you agree, and missed the the huge dump of "CE-Oh no he didn't" in his commentary.
Just because a BOD votes you into the role of CEO, doesn't mean you are well-equiped to handle providing public commentary about highly successful and profitable other companies. I mean, look at the routine number of doofus comments that have been delivered by the RIM co-CEOs, by Nokia's former CEO, Michael Dell, Steve "the iPhone will never sell" Balmer, and even on occasion Jobs has delivered a faux pas in public commentary.
Sounds like someone I wouldn't hire. His sense of reason is stuck in a non sequitur.
Netgear is a manufacturer of low end(garbage) products..should keep his mouth shut and improve his company
Generics will catch up. A couple of years late, but they will catch up. Would I rather pay $199 for an iPad, sure. The Chinese will back Lenovo so hard, Apple will forget what street its bank is on.
I'm just curious -- why are you so excited for a world where mediocrity and imitation are valued above innovation and quality? Is it simply because your investment portfolio sits in such companies?
Without the Linux kernel GNU would be dead in the water with no viable operating system. All they would have is re-appropriated BSD unix code. The BSD guys would shrug and go on their way and everyone else would use their stuff, rather than the GNU stuff, due to the viral licensing restrictions. But because Linux is far better staffed with regular contributors that actively push and extend the platform it rightly has ascended past the traditional unixes and users are quite comfortable with the GPL2 that Linus has posted his code under.
Without that active Linux community, there isn't anything compelling to build on compared to the rest of what's out there. GNU would be just another license, with far harsher terms for consumers of code, and that would lead to irrelevance.
GNU isn't a license.
OS X isn't called 'XNU'
why? you go figure it out.
where would FSF be without linux? good chance not as far along as they are now but who knows, they could have picked up some bsd and kept chuggin right along, maybe even using parts of darwin. who knows? why does it matter? you don't want to give credit to hard work done by programmers other than linus?
linus has done some good stuff and so have others. you seem to hate stallman yet love jobs. what has jobs done that is so worth praise? made lots of money?
jobs would be selling suits or used cars if he hadn't of met wozniak.
If the success of the iPod proves anything, it's that Patrick Lo is sometimes wrong. Giving customers what they want is the key to success. And by the way, the last NetGear router I bought was defective out of the box, so I returned it and got an Apple AirPort Extreme instead. Best decision ever, Patrick.
iOS has been adopted or is in the process of being adopted in 88 of the Fortune 100 companies. What's Androids count, since he mentioned it? How many articles have we read on this site about Android not living up to expectations, not attracting enough developers, not being adopted by as many phones / enterprises as originally hoped for? Honestly his rant just seems ignorant of the mobile computing market, which is no surprise since his company has no mobile computer offerings of any kind. What's the reason to trash Flash, he asks? Jobs posted a whole massive letter detailing the whole deal. Seemed pretty well thought out and founded in actual business and software concerns. Kinda exactly opposite to the degree of preparation you can see behind Lo's words.
Sounds to me like a fanboy in the wrong direction, he just hates 'cause he's decided to hate. What's that called? Notafanboy? He's a APL notafanboy and no manner of iOS success and Android failure is going to change his mind!
Well rawr it up Lo, get your 15 minutes of fame. Looking forward to the day you lose footing in the consumer market and your enterprise line can no longer keep you afloat.
EDIT: It seems several of my points were already brought up, sorry about that, and good points all.
GNU isn't a license.
OS X isn't called 'XNU'
why? you go figure it out.
where would FSF be without linux? good chance not as far along as they are now but who knows, they could have picked up some bsd and kept chuggin right along, maybe even using parts of darwin. who knows? why does it matter? you don't want to give credit to hard work done by programmers other than linus?
linus has done some good stuff and so have others. you seem to hate stallman yet love jobs. what has jobs done that is so worth praise? made lots of money?
jobs would be selling suits or used cars if he hadn't of met wozniak.
Wozniak would be an anonymous HP engineer he hadn't met Jobs.
Apple would have been long gone if Jobs hadn't returned to Apple a decade ago and brought NeXTSTEP with him.
The talented animators and artists at Pixar would be toiling away at who knows where instead of pursuing the dream of pioneering computer-animated feature films.
What has Jobs done that is so worth praise? How about everything that's not engineering needed to bring great products to market? Apparently it is a skill that you underappreciate. Anybody can run Apple, right John Sculley? Right Gil Amelio?
Or maybe it's the venue - Australia - or jet leg. Invective is a particular pastime in Australia, as is "having a wank."
Wozniak would be an anonymous HP engineer he hadn't met Jobs.
Apple would have been long gone if Jobs hadn't returned to Apple a decade ago and brought NeXTSTEP with him.
The talented animators and artists at Pixar would be toiling away at who knows where instead of pursuing the dream of pioneering computer-animated feature films.
What has Jobs done that is so worth praise? How about everything that's not engineering needed to bring great products to market? Apparently it is a skill that you underappreciate. Anybody can run Apple, right John Sculley? Right Gil Amelio?
"Jobs returned to his previous job at Atari and was given the task of creating a circuit board for the game Breakout. According to Atari founder Nolan Bushnell, Atari had offered US$100 for each chip that was eliminated in the machine. Jobs had little interest or knowledge in circuit board design and made a deal with Wozniak to split the bonus evenly between them if Wozniak could minimize the number of chips. Much to the amazement of Atari, Wozniak reduced the number of chips by 50, a design so tight that it was impossible to reproduce on an assembly line. At the time, Jobs told Wozniak that Atari had only given them $700 (instead of the actual $5000) and that Wozniak's share was thus $350.[38][39][40][41][42][43]" - from wikipedia
he's a clever piece of work. will give him that. nice how he f***** his own best(?) friend around even back then.
And in other news Paris Hilton gives acting advice to Meryl Streep.
C.
Love it!!
George
Steve is right.
I do not understand the anger directed at Patrick's rant.
From macs to iphones, i've been an Apple guy for a long, long time. But i will not buy an iPad until it allows me to control my own content without having to go through that unspeakable thing called iTunes.
iTunes is just a sync tool. In what way do you "not control" your content? I assume you are not talking about piracy (but if you were, the obvious answer is jailbreak).
I'm just curious -- why are you so excited for a world where mediocrity and imitation are valued above innovation and quality? Is it simply because your investment portfolio sits in such companies?
Interesting slur. I suppose because S Jobs is an American, we can gloat about our national cleverness. Copying is exactly what Toyota did to Chevrolet and Rover in about 1965. my investment portfolio is a whole lot of both Asia and too much AAPL. This thread is mostly face slapping an executive because he's not S Jobs. Well we're all not. He probably did ok in life. He's predicting future events, not making a summary of present events every third grader knows. It's a worthwhile thought exercise to imagine Apples magic will end. Magic always does end. You can browbeat him for saying that, but in time, open source will effectively replicate all aspects of AAPL's innovations of 2005-2010. How long can the magic last... More years. But the rest of world isnt all idiots. They will make good phones and tablets too. Shockingly good. Apples rise was predicated on imaginative thinking. Their fall, too, will not be what all the bozos out there expect. Analysts were wrong about AAPL in 2001 and they are just as stupid today, endlessly repeating sound bytes about AAPL having a secure market. Their business is mostly younger than some of my underwear. It won't endure without a ton of good luck and superhuman levels of prudence. Keep in mind, 10 years ago everybody thought GE could do no wrong.
Microsoft simply stole anyone elses ideas for its own use. Windows is a closed proprietary piece of crap. If it is so great why doesn't his company use that for its emedded OS? I've always used Netgear, but all those products are just made in China crap, so I guess in the future I'll buy one that just steals all its ideas from Netgear.
I was talking about Apple killing off its professional market, the ones who produce the content that the rest are consuming. As of today you can no longer buy an XServe as Apple no longer sells them. There is no replacement (and in production houses, replacing rack mounted redundant machines with Mac Pros or Mac Minis is not possible or realistic). I was talking about how Apple is neglecting its professional software (FCP Studio, FCP Server, XSan) to such an extent that Adobe's software is now much, much better and, to top that, really does run better on Windows.
Apple is making a killing off consumer devices which are really good and provide a seamless experience, but Android will eventually eat up much of that market, leaving Apple with no core of loyal professionals that it had back when Macs were only popular amongst creative professional users.
Finally, a like-minded person on the forum. I've been trumpeting Apple's disregard or neglect of it's professional users for a while now. Falls on deaf ears here unfortunately. Most of the forum users here are just market parasites - checking in before they option - making muny while offering zero value... Hey, just like their comments
Anyways, i'm in agreement with you on all points. It's the difference between real life experience and Apple lala land everything is wonderful and magical.
... you don't want to give credit to hard work done by programmers other than linus? ...
I don't want to see people who didn't do Linus's hard work steal credit for it by prepending something on to 'Linux' that distorts reality. It's "Linux". There is no such thing as "GNU Linux". (And "GNU/Linux" is equally dishonest.)
Don't get baited. That was screamingfist, our resident troll who has found a very liberal set of mods and admins so he's well dug in.
Thanks for the heads-up, although I don't mind providing some education to those in need. He may not read my post, but others out there will, and will learn from my well reasoned comments. To quote Michael Scott, it's a win win win.