First of all, what's open about Windows? Second. I think most manufactures of Android devices feel like Motorola and think a race to the bottom is not the way to go. Also, many developers feel similar to the Rovio developers that developing for platforms where hardware is so diverse is a PITA and more expensive by nature. Lastly, pure economic theory suggests that the market innovator can and will create a comfortable lead and sustain marketability. They simply have a severe case of envy. Lol
Are you sure you didn't grab this from the Onion? I mean.. this is one of those pieces that's so over the top, it's not even worth commenting on. $1600 with accessories? A mouse? iPad will fail? I'm walking away before my head explodes.
He / they in all fairness, have to say something about where they HOPE to go, and how the HOPE to get there, and how the HOPE folks will buy into this crap. It's there future they are HOPING on.
If they don't unseat Apple, they may all have to go knocking on Steve's door looking for a job, and well, we all know what the likelihood of that is.
As soon as they realize that they aren't in Kansas anymore, and that Apple isn't the enemy, and that all they HAVE to do, it's up-the-anti by coming up with something NEW and EXCITING, that beats the Apple product at it's own game, they to will see riches beyond their wildest dreams.
All I can say is "I wish my company sucked as bad as Apple".
Now if anyone is looking to get promotional products for less ? come and see me.
If this is what a senior executive "knows" about Apple then he needs to be fired. The iPad is cheap. Its entry level tablet is the cheapest on the market ( with a capacitive screen) and Apple probably will have the margins to go cheaper later this year. Apple have done all this an protected margins.
Dell - a small company relative to Apple - will not be able to compete on price with their "multi-OS" tablet - is WP7 even ready for a tablet, does anybody think that UI can even scale? - and so will flounder like everybody else. With executives who think that an iPad costs $1500 is representative of their competition, then they are screwed.
Quick they need some cheese to go with all of that whine, and some one to explain to them that in order to attain their goals the need to sell all of the junk that they manufacture before it can be counted as market share.
Multi-OS? Mice for all-touch, ultra-mobile devices? Dell is clearly looking at this completely wrong, and have gotten so far behind already. If it was up to Dell, we would be using computers in the exact same manner as we are using them today. I guess they have realized by now innovation will not be coming from them -- maybe that's what's making them say stupid things like this...
That must be some real good shit that those Dell dudes are smoking. I wish I had some of that.
$1500-$1600?
A mouse for an iPad?
Yeah...you were asking where the extra cost is coming from...as you said, that's some real good shit they're smoking. I wonder how they'll package that, though? Is it an accessory? Does it fit in the box where the earbuds are usually folded up?
According to Lark, the high cost of additional accessories for the iPad makes the tablet inaccessible. ?An iPad with a keyboard, a mouse and a case [means] you?ll be at $1500 or $1600; that?s double of what you?re paying," he said. "That?s not feasible.?[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ][/c]
Say what!?
What keyboard and case (and mouse?) add up to $670-770? The iPad is not the most expensive tablet out there; it is the least expensive. And I have no idea what HP knows about "open" software - both Windows and its own WebOS are proprietary.
These guys are really embarrassing. It's like watching a really bad performance at a play and feeling so, so bad for the guy on stage you want to walk out so you don't have to think about it anymore.
iPad COSTS! The mice! with the things! And the double XZ triple bypass ergonomic keyboard with the hotkeys and the stand made out of delicate China and the monies! And the THINGS! My GOD....the MONIES! And the mouses! DidIMentionTheMOUSES?!................
The comments from these wanna-be's are as predictable as their me-too products.
I disagree. The statements in this article are so mind-boggling stupid I can't imagine anyone predicting that this is what HP execs think about the iPad and tablets in general.
But I have to thank them, especially this Dell guy, for his 'insights', he made my day, which was frankly kind of boring and full of annoyances up to now
I really can't wait 'til Saturday to see what the Macalope over at Macworld has to say about this!
I'm surprised that there are so many comments here... because that clueless diatribe left my jaw hanging, speechless, and dare I say paralyzed in embarrassment for both of them.
I'm seriously pained by the "image" of them bending over and doing the full "corporate-reach-around" for their bosses... because they can't really believe what they just said... can they?
Funny that the Dell and HP bozos only talk about the high price of accessories. And never did they say "ours will be cheaper." Because that would be lying. Apple's massive iPad sales give them huge purchasing power. The bigger their orders from component suppliers, the better their per-unit price, economy of scale, yadda yadda.
And that's only including iPad components. Apple uses many of the same components in iPad, iPod touch, iPhone, and even Apple TV. Which means even bigger purchase volume and better economy of scale. The iPad cloners of the world need to outbid each other for what's left, which raises their costs, which cuts into their margins. Unless they raise prices. Hence the $800 7" Xoom. Oops.
But I can understand Dell's and HP's frustration. They don't have their own pad OS. They are at the mercy of Microsoft and Google. The way Palm was at the mercy of Microsoft and Access (who they sold Palm OS to, in case you don't remember.) Microsoft has proven over the last decade that they can't and don't want to develop a real pad OS. Google wants to but they're years behind Apple in apps, stability, and even basic features. So, Dell and HP are forced to release products with inferior user experiences, infrastructures, ecosystems, and build quality. Or they're forced to wait until their software partners get their act together. A total lose-lose situation.
Come to think of it, Microsoft has exactly the same frustrations. But from the other side. They have no hardware of their own. They are at the mercy of the LGs, Samsungs, HTCs, and Nokias of the world. All of whom are frantically cutting corners on their iPhone clones and iPad clones. Microsoft is thinking "Why can't these idiots build a phone as good as iPhone?"
The answer is "Because if you're serious about hardware, you'll write the OS for it. And if you're serious about an OS, you'll build the hardware for it." And that's why the "open" concept, of software on multiple hardware designs, is fatally flawed.
Dell is a train wreck, but the argument is not entirely without merit. After all, Apple has never had the best relationships with business. Also, HP is not quite the train wreck that Dell is, so it's conceivable that maybe HP could be competitive. But it's not likely.
Here's the problem for the non-Apple tablets -- the platform just isn't there yet. I'm not sure that people fully appreciate just how badly MS has screwed up here. The entire "open" PC platform depends critically on MS for not just an OS but for an overall vision of where the platform is going. MS fell asleep at the wheel and now that whole world of PC OEMs has no idea what to do. Google has tried to step into the void but Google is an ad company, not a computing platform company. Google wants to just write some code, give it a way, and hope everything works out (oh, and please let us sell ads). But the PC OEMs need a lot more than that because either (1) their brains have atrophied over the years of dependence on MS (HP) or (2) they never had brains to begin with (Dell).
It's a little different in the phone space because people historically have had lower expectations for phones. If you're stepping up from a plain vanilla flip phone or feature phone, then Android seems like an improvement to you. But as people start to look at their phone as a computer, they'll start to raise their expectations beyond what the Android phones can match (little things like being able to buy apps that actually work and being able to upgrade the OS).
So right now, Apple has a huge advantage, even in the enterprise. But Apple does need to work very hard to improve their enterprise sales staff and support because that is their one big vulnerability. The bad news for the PC-guys is that Apple appears to be doing exactly that. By the time the rest of the industry coalesces around a coherent strategy (which I'll bet involves either Windows 8 or 9), Apple may have closed the enterprise gap, at which point it might just be too late for the PC guys.
$829 for 64GB 3G iPad + $207 for accessories that oddly include a mouse = $1036, about 50-60% cheaper than he claims.
And now think about it: if you take a 16GB WiFi for $499 and you even don't need a mouse etc. that's even nearly 320% cheaper then he claims! That should leave these competitors flummoxed ...
(OK, $499 is 70% of $1600 - but getting from $499 to $1600, that's really a 320% increase.)
It?s so odd that they are comparing a complete product to a free OS. Vendors that use Android have to first compete with all other tablets that use Android for the top position. yet a company that makes it?s money from HW sales is expressing some sort of unity with other Android using vendors? Good luck with that, Andy.
Maybe he can?t see the forest for the trees because they?re all Apple tress.
$829 for 64GB 3G iPad + $207 for accessories that oddly include a mouse = $1036, about 50-60% cheaper than he claims.
And tweaking meth addicts consider robbing gas stations, that doesn?t make their decisions intelligent.
Someone?s reading from RiM?s playbook.. literally.
I usually don?t intimate these nitpicks but that reads as the review of the Dell Streak was the worst, not the product itself.
In December, Journalist Walt Mossberg reviewed the device as last year's worst product.
With sincerity... good luck, Dell.
This should read?
?Unlike [HP], [Apple] is very [customer] friendly. And if you have an issue with [Apple] you can pick up the phone and talk to someone[, or simply walk into an Apple Store]. That's something that's impossible with [HP]. As an [HP/Windows customer], I can say that it really feels like they're holding you hostage sometimes,"
The take away here is that no matter where these guys go everyone is using Apple?s products as the zenith product. They have no choice but to talk about Apple even if it means pooh-poohing them with strawman arguments.
Only replying to your mouse comment. I am still trying to get my head around mention of a mouse!
p.s. This illustrates how ridiculous multi-comment replies are ... (no offense to you Soli)
This takes "corporate prostitution" to a whole 'nother level. This isn't a ball-game where trash-talking is a given and sometimes funny. This is a high-level executive of a major company plain out LYING about their competition.
Considering that the courts in Ami-Land are so full of baseless lawsuits, I'm NOT going to call for one... however, this looks serious borderline to me. And imagine the salespeople using those exact lines when consulting with potential clients that don't have the time to look into the facts. Yes it's the client's problem for not doing so... but still, I'd be interested in hearing if there might be liability or the possibility of contract-cancellation in the very least, if a small biz actually believed this shit and decided to back out when the "Dell Plan" obviously didn't work.... and/or it was found that the entire plan/concept was based on out-and-out lies.
I suppose I'm barking up the wrong tree here, but I'm held to a certain amount of accountability contractual-wise, and even monetarily (insurance) if I can't deliver here in Germany. If it's found out that I grossly lied to get a contract, I could very well find myself in court pronto. Make that 95% sure I would. Also if my competition got wind of this... they might go after me as well (not unheard of).
It's why in Germany you can't even advertise with the words, "We're The Best" unequivocally. You must qualify your claim with an independent public study/rating, like those from JDPowers for cars. Even then... better to stay away from claiming anything, other than putting the stamp/rating out there for all to see and make their own assumptions or let them research further.
All in all... those were lies from Dell. What's the next strategy: telling business partners and clients that you'll pull their licenses or warranties unless they dump all of their iDevices? Didn't some big tech company already do something similar to that... and I believe there was a monopoly problem? Hmm... who was that now?
Comments
If they don't unseat Apple, they may all have to go knocking on Steve's door looking for a job, and well, we all know what the likelihood of that is.
As soon as they realize that they aren't in Kansas anymore, and that Apple isn't the enemy, and that all they HAVE to do, it's up-the-anti by coming up with something NEW and EXCITING, that beats the Apple product at it's own game, they to will see riches beyond their wildest dreams.
All I can say is "I wish my company sucked as bad as Apple".
Now if anyone is looking to get promotional products for less ? come and see me.
Karl
designsbyskip.com
Dell - a small company relative to Apple - will not be able to compete on price with their "multi-OS" tablet - is WP7 even ready for a tablet, does anybody think that UI can even scale? - and so will flounder like everybody else. With executives who think that an iPad costs $1500 is representative of their competition, then they are screwed.
That must be some real good shit that those Dell dudes are smoking.
$1500-$1600?
A mouse for an iPad?
Yeah...you were asking where the extra cost is coming from...as you said, that's some real good shit they're smoking. I wonder how they'll package that, though? Is it an accessory? Does it fit in the box where the earbuds are usually folded up?
According to Lark, the high cost of additional accessories for the iPad makes the tablet inaccessible. ?An iPad with a keyboard, a mouse and a case [means] you?ll be at $1500 or $1600; that?s double of what you?re paying," he said. "That?s not feasible.?[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ][/c]
Say what!?
What keyboard and case (and mouse?) add up to $670-770? The iPad is not the most expensive tablet out there; it is the least expensive. And I have no idea what HP knows about "open" software - both Windows and its own WebOS are proprietary.
It all sounds like desperation to me!
McD
iPad COSTS! The mice! with the things! And the double XZ triple bypass ergonomic keyboard with the hotkeys and the stand made out of delicate China and the monies! And the THINGS! My GOD....the MONIES! And the mouses! DidIMentionTheMOUSES?!................
...buy our stuff please.
Okay, alright. How much for a kilo?
The comments from these wanna-be's are as predictable as their me-too products.
I disagree. The statements in this article are so mind-boggling stupid I can't imagine anyone predicting that this is what HP execs think about the iPad and tablets in general.
But I have to thank them, especially this Dell guy, for his 'insights', he made my day, which was frankly kind of boring and full of annoyances up to now
Andy Lark pulled a Ballmer! (That is a legitimate expression by now, right?)
That's not a good sign when making up the price of a mouse as an accessory is an argument against your competitors touch-based tablet.
The guy's last name is "Lark." Surely that is meme-building material? Surely we can do something with this?
Merriam Webster Dictionary
Lark:
any of a family (Alaudidae) of chiefly Old World ground-dwelling songbirds that are usually brownish in color;
A bird that can't fly and looks like shit? Maybe infuse it with some good ole drug references?
"You've got to be larking me."
"Stop larking around."
"That dell plan is a big pile of lark."
"Larking in the boys room."
I'm surprised that there are so many comments here... because that clueless diatribe left my jaw hanging, speechless, and dare I say paralyzed in embarrassment for both of them.
I'm seriously pained by the "image" of them bending over and doing the full "corporate-reach-around" for their bosses... because they can't really believe what they just said... can they?
I'm flummoxed!
And that's only including iPad components. Apple uses many of the same components in iPad, iPod touch, iPhone, and even Apple TV. Which means even bigger purchase volume and better economy of scale. The iPad cloners of the world need to outbid each other for what's left, which raises their costs, which cuts into their margins. Unless they raise prices. Hence the $800 7" Xoom. Oops.
But I can understand Dell's and HP's frustration. They don't have their own pad OS. They are at the mercy of Microsoft and Google. The way Palm was at the mercy of Microsoft and Access (who they sold Palm OS to, in case you don't remember.) Microsoft has proven over the last decade that they can't and don't want to develop a real pad OS. Google wants to but they're years behind Apple in apps, stability, and even basic features. So, Dell and HP are forced to release products with inferior user experiences, infrastructures, ecosystems, and build quality. Or they're forced to wait until their software partners get their act together. A total lose-lose situation.
Come to think of it, Microsoft has exactly the same frustrations. But from the other side. They have no hardware of their own. They are at the mercy of the LGs, Samsungs, HTCs, and Nokias of the world. All of whom are frantically cutting corners on their iPhone clones and iPad clones. Microsoft is thinking "Why can't these idiots build a phone as good as iPhone?"
The answer is "Because if you're serious about hardware, you'll write the OS for it. And if you're serious about an OS, you'll build the hardware for it." And that's why the "open" concept, of software on multiple hardware designs, is fatally flawed.
Here's the problem for the non-Apple tablets -- the platform just isn't there yet. I'm not sure that people fully appreciate just how badly MS has screwed up here. The entire "open" PC platform depends critically on MS for not just an OS but for an overall vision of where the platform is going. MS fell asleep at the wheel and now that whole world of PC OEMs has no idea what to do. Google has tried to step into the void but Google is an ad company, not a computing platform company. Google wants to just write some code, give it a way, and hope everything works out (oh, and please let us sell ads). But the PC OEMs need a lot more than that because either (1) their brains have atrophied over the years of dependence on MS (HP) or (2) they never had brains to begin with (Dell).
It's a little different in the phone space because people historically have had lower expectations for phones. If you're stepping up from a plain vanilla flip phone or feature phone, then Android seems like an improvement to you. But as people start to look at their phone as a computer, they'll start to raise their expectations beyond what the Android phones can match (little things like being able to buy apps that actually work and being able to upgrade the OS).
So right now, Apple has a huge advantage, even in the enterprise. But Apple does need to work very hard to improve their enterprise sales staff and support because that is their one big vulnerability. The bad news for the PC-guys is that Apple appears to be doing exactly that. By the time the rest of the industry coalesces around a coherent strategy (which I'll bet involves either Windows 8 or 9), Apple may have closed the enterprise gap, at which point it might just be too late for the PC guys.
$829 for 64GB 3G iPad + $207 for accessories that oddly include a mouse = $1036, about 50-60% cheaper than he claims.
And now think about it: if you take a 16GB WiFi for $499 and you even don't need a mouse etc. that's even nearly 320% cheaper then he claims! That should leave these competitors flummoxed ...
(OK, $499 is 70% of $1600 - but getting from $499 to $1600, that's really a 320% increase.)
It?s so odd that they are comparing a complete product to a free OS. Vendors that use Android have to first compete with all other tablets that use Android for the top position. yet a company that makes it?s money from HW sales is expressing some sort of unity with other Android using vendors? Good luck with that, Andy.
Maybe he can?t see the forest for the trees because they?re all Apple tress.
$829 for 64GB 3G iPad + $207 for accessories that oddly include a mouse = $1036, about 50-60% cheaper than he claims.
And tweaking meth addicts consider robbing gas stations, that doesn?t make their decisions intelligent.
Someone?s reading from RiM?s playbook.. literally.
I usually don?t intimate these nitpicks but that reads as the review of the Dell Streak was the worst, not the product itself. With sincerity... good luck, Dell.
This should read?
The take away here is that no matter where these guys go everyone is using Apple?s products as the zenith product. They have no choice but to talk about Apple even if it means pooh-poohing them with strawman arguments.
Only replying to your mouse comment. I am still trying to get my head around mention of a mouse!
p.s. This illustrates how ridiculous multi-comment replies are ...
Yeah.. iPad with a mouse? Wtf?
Does this mean his tablets require a mouse?
Yes the Dell tablets will require a mouse, a keyboard.... The whole nine yards!
That is his "vision"
ROTFLMAO at some of those (soon to be former) execs' comments
Considering that the courts in Ami-Land are so full of baseless lawsuits, I'm NOT going to call for one... however, this looks serious borderline to me. And imagine the salespeople using those exact lines when consulting with potential clients that don't have the time to look into the facts. Yes it's the client's problem for not doing so... but still, I'd be interested in hearing if there might be liability or the possibility of contract-cancellation in the very least, if a small biz actually believed this shit and decided to back out when the "Dell Plan" obviously didn't work.... and/or it was found that the entire plan/concept was based on out-and-out lies.
I suppose I'm barking up the wrong tree here, but I'm held to a certain amount of accountability contractual-wise, and even monetarily (insurance) if I can't deliver here in Germany. If it's found out that I grossly lied to get a contract, I could very well find myself in court pronto. Make that 95% sure I would. Also if my competition got wind of this... they might go after me as well (not unheard of).
It's why in Germany you can't even advertise with the words, "We're The Best" unequivocally. You must qualify your claim with an independent public study/rating, like those from JDPowers for cars. Even then... better to stay away from claiming anything, other than putting the stamp/rating out there for all to see and make their own assumptions or let them research further.
All in all... those were lies from Dell. What's the next strategy: telling business partners and clients that you'll pull their licenses or warranties unless they dump all of their iDevices? Didn't some big tech company already do something similar to that... and I believe there was a monopoly problem? Hmm... who was that now?