So Apple changed their privacy policy last June. This is all well known from almost a year ago and right there in the privacy policy.
To provide location-based services on Apple products, Apple and our partners and licensees may collect, use, and share precise location data, including the real-time geographic location of your Apple computer or device. This location data is collected anonymously in a form that does not personally identify you and is used by Apple and our partners and licensees to provide and improve location-based products and services.
Then some senators asked Apple to explain their privacy policy changes. Apple explained it.
Apple put the privacy policy change on the iTunes Store so that as many customers would see it as possible, the company said in the letter. Customers who did not want their phone to share their location can opt out by turning off location-based services on any iOS device's settings menu. Or they can say they do not agree to the new privacy policy. In that case, customers will not be able to set up an iTunes Store account, but can still activate and access any Apple device, the letter said.
Bruce Sewell, replied to Markey on this issue.
"When a customer's device sends Wi-Fi, cell tower, GPS, or diagnostic location information to Apple, it does not include any information identifying the particular device or user," Sewell wrote. It was also noted it only records a user's latitude and longitude anonymously and then immediately converted to a five-digit ZIP code. The lat/long info is not kept and the ZIP code is not matched with a particular device or user, according to Apple. Advertisers never see the ZIP code info.
So we have Apple telling the consumer they are doing it with two options of opting out, along with a letter to a senator detailing what they are recording and why.
The only stance you could possibly have that would make you upset is if you think Apple is lying, but you?ve presented no evidence to that fact.
This is not the same issue that was brought up by the App Tracker folks. This is an older, separate issue.
Again, why is this cache retained in consolidated.db for so long if Apple already has the info? The only reason that makes sense to me is if it?s a bug/oversight that isn?t clearing the cache properly the way Snow Leopard doesn?t cull temp PLISTs the way it should.
Curiosity isn?t an emotion.
Will someone make him a mod already?
At least it will give him some justification for posting on every fucking thread.
Someone once told me about something called Echelon and about GCHQ where they can listen-in to my phone conversations, read my SMS, email and even reproduce any fax messages I might send or receive.
Even if I had no tech toys on me and was living in some far out cave somewhere, the government has the ability to track me via satellite. Or so they say.
And I'm going to sit here and worry about cell tower locations on my iDevices?
THIS is what the Senate is worried about??! Here's a cure for mobile tracking: DON'T USE A MOBILE DEVICE.
Now fix campaign finance, amend to keep a balanced budget and increase funding to alternative energy based in U.S. by decreasing monies to pointless foreign wars.
Done.
Oh come on, they all get bribed, sorry I mean lobbied, to not do anything like the important stuff on your list! This is an excuse for personal publicity for the senators. Too good to miss.
why is it such a big deal to you that Apple have the right to collect information about you that you do not control? (Apple has admitted to collecting it twice a day, without your consent).
The big deal IMO is only that it is on the device/computer, and therefore no longer anonymous.
I dont really care if Apple or anyone else collects anonymous data, so long as it doesnt impact my device's performance. But putting on the device like that ties it to you. Anyone who steals the device (or hacks into it or whatever) knows the data is yours.
Did i miss the point? How is this thing news? I opted out WAY back when this was first discussed on appleinsider. So did everybody else i know personaly whom own an iphone. I tried Iphone tracker but I tcouldnt find anything of interest on my machine....
According to this source, you are not given an option to opt-out.
Quote:
The iPhone system, by contrast, appears to record the data whether or not the user agrees. Apple declined to comment on why the file is created or whether it can be disabled.
There we go again. Two wrongs make a right. Apple is no better than Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion. Or rather, since Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion do what they do (leaving aside the fact that they are required by law to let you know what they do if you ask them), Apple, Google, et. al can do what they want to do. There is no difference between a normal expectation of privacy and matters of national security. FBI is the same as Apple. The private sector is the same as the government because, if a citizen can disable his/her cell pone, (s)he must automatically be able to disable government.....
Need I go on?
The fallacious (and sophomoric) arguments in this thread are beyond belief.
All you did was call my argument fallacious and sophomoric. That doesn't help me. On what grounds is Apple's or Google's data collection "wrong" (or illegal?) Os it because it isn't regulated by the FTC? Is it because they failed to disclose that it being logged? What kind of information should a program not log? If I handle a user password and my program crashes, would a crash dump file containing the password be considered "wrong" in your sense? Tell me again what the damage is if my consolidated.db gets exposed. What then? Do I have a right to privacy? Is it in the Constitution?
How do these people think apps like Google Maps and MotionX and all that get their data? Directly hitting the hardware? Umm no because UNIX based systems don't allow that.
You agreed to location tracking when you allowed apps to use that part of the OS.
Does anyone really think Apple is going to use this information? There are millions of people using iPhones/iPads. Do they really think that Apple cares about spending resources on tracking people in something that doesn't really add any value to their business?
Someone once told me about something called Echelon and about GCHQ where they can listen-in to my phone conversations, read my SMS, email and even reproduce any fax messages I might send or receive.
Even if I had no tech toys on me and was living in some far out cave somewhere, the government has the ability to track me via satellite. Or so they say.
And I'm going to sit here and worry about cell tower locations on my iDevices?
Splinter Cell is only a game.
That being said Tom Clancy did used to work for the CIA so what we read in his books are more than likely real or being worked on.
Because it is logged and stored on the device. What is the point of logging it to do all the things you talked about? Why does it need to be logged to do those things?
Quote:
Google on the other hand...
...doesnt do this kinda thing without your explicit consent. Their system is Opt-in...you have to actually tell them you want to do it. You arent logged by default.
Someone once told me about something called Echelon and about GCHQ where they can listen-in to my phone conversations, read my SMS, email and even reproduce any fax messages I might send or receive.
Even if I had no tech toys on me and was living in some far out cave somewhere, the government has the ability to track me via satellite. Or so they say.
And I'm going to sit here and worry about cell tower locations on my iDevices?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowededwookie
Splinter Cell is only a game.
That being said Tom Clancy did used to work for the CIA so what we read in his books are more than likely real or being worked on.
Well, these things are more NSA activities. Clearly, they can listen to your phone conversations and read your SMS, and they've been monitoring international (at least) fax transmissions for years. (The fax thing is a simple matter of data capture of the fax image and then applying rather sophisticated OCR to it.)
... Do I have a right to privacy? Is it in the Constitution?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRR
I am pretty sure it's covered under the 4th amendment when it comes to authorities. ...
The 1st, 3rd, 4th, 9th & 14th Amendments. Note particularly the 9th Amendment in relation to the original question:
Quote:
The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
The right to privacy is fundamental to liberty. In fact, without privacy, there is no liberty. To the founders, this seemed so fundamental as to not require specific mention in the Constitution. Fortunately, they had the foresight to tell us that just because a right isn't mentioned in the Constitution, doesn't mean we don't have it.
[Google's] system is Opt-in...you have to actually tell them you want to do it. You arent logged by default.
Asking you if you want to use locations services, but failing to mention that you'll be sending personally identifiable location data back to Google HQ even when you aren't specifically using location based apps isn't exactly what I would call opt-in. To be able to opt-in, it has to be unambiguously disclosed to you exactly what you are opting in to. Google's highly invasive system is more like tricked-in.
Asking you if you want to use locations services, but failing to mention that you'll be sending personally identifiable location data back to Google HQ even when you aren't specifically using location based apps isn't exactly what I would call opt-in.
The point being, when you first start your Android device and connect your account to it, you are told very clearly that this information will be collected. It does not say "only when using so-and-so app". Its a check box. If you dont trust google, just uncheck it. Location services and stuff will all still work. You just wont be sending google data.
If Apple was not logging the info on the device, I would not even care. I dont think most people would. I dont think most people care about sending anonymous data to Google or Apple.
Quote:
To be able to opt-in, it has to be unambiguously disclosed to you exactly what you are opting in to.
I disagree. I think all they are required to do is notify you that it is being done. If you want more details, you can pursue it from there.
Quote:
Google's highly invasive system is more like tricked-in.
Google's system is invasive but Apple's is not? Apple doesnt even give you the option.
Because it is logged and stored on the device. What is the point of logging it to do all the things you talked about? Why does it need to be logged to do those things?
...doesnt do this kinda thing without your explicit consent. Their system is Opt-in...you have to actually tell them you want to do it. You arent logged by default.
Google lets you know what they want you to know. Even the guberment doesn't know what they are doing. Do you have a gmail account or do google searches? You are in for a big surprise.
Comments
So Apple changed their privacy policy last June. This is all well known from almost a year ago and right there in the privacy policy.Then some senators asked Apple to explain their privacy policy changes. Apple explained it. Bruce Sewell, replied to Markey on this issue.So we have Apple telling the consumer they are doing it with two options of opting out, along with a letter to a senator detailing what they are recording and why.
The only stance you could possibly have that would make you upset is if you think Apple is lying, but you?ve presented no evidence to that fact.
This is not the same issue that was brought up by the App Tracker folks. This is an older, separate issue.
Again, why is this cache retained in consolidated.db for so long if Apple already has the info? The only reason that makes sense to me is if it?s a bug/oversight that isn?t clearing the cache properly the way Snow Leopard doesn?t cull temp PLISTs the way it should.
Curiosity isn?t an emotion.
Will someone make him a mod already?
At least it will give him some justification for posting on every fucking thread.
Even if I had no tech toys on me and was living in some far out cave somewhere, the government has the ability to track me via satellite. Or so they say.
And I'm going to sit here and worry about cell tower locations on my iDevices?
THIS is what the Senate is worried about??! Here's a cure for mobile tracking: DON'T USE A MOBILE DEVICE.
Now fix campaign finance, amend to keep a balanced budget and increase funding to alternative energy based in U.S. by decreasing monies to pointless foreign wars.
Done.
Oh come on, they all get bribed, sorry I mean lobbied, to not do anything like the important stuff on your list! This is an excuse for personal publicity for the senators. Too good to miss.
why is it such a big deal to you that Apple have the right to collect information about you that you do not control? (Apple has admitted to collecting it twice a day, without your consent).
The big deal IMO is only that it is on the device/computer, and therefore no longer anonymous.
I dont really care if Apple or anyone else collects anonymous data, so long as it doesnt impact my device's performance. But putting on the device like that ties it to you. Anyone who steals the device (or hacks into it or whatever) knows the data is yours.
Did i miss the point? How is this thing news? I opted out WAY back when this was first discussed on appleinsider. So did everybody else i know personaly whom own an iphone. I tried Iphone tracker but I tcouldnt find anything of interest on my machine....
According to this source, you are not given an option to opt-out.
The iPhone system, by contrast, appears to record the data whether or not the user agrees. Apple declined to comment on why the file is created or whether it can be disabled.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...-privacy-fears
There we go again. Two wrongs make a right. Apple is no better than Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion. Or rather, since Equifax, Experian, and TransUnion do what they do (leaving aside the fact that they are required by law to let you know what they do if you ask them), Apple, Google, et. al can do what they want to do. There is no difference between a normal expectation of privacy and matters of national security. FBI is the same as Apple. The private sector is the same as the government because, if a citizen can disable his/her cell pone, (s)he must automatically be able to disable government.....
Need I go on?
The fallacious (and sophomoric) arguments in this thread are beyond belief.
All you did was call my argument fallacious and sophomoric. That doesn't help me. On what grounds is Apple's or Google's data collection "wrong" (or illegal?) Os it because it isn't regulated by the FTC? Is it because they failed to disclose that it being logged? What kind of information should a program not log? If I handle a user password and my program crashes, would a crash dump file containing the password be considered "wrong" in your sense? Tell me again what the damage is if my consolidated.db gets exposed. What then? Do I have a right to privacy? Is it in the Constitution?
How do these people think apps like Google Maps and MotionX and all that get their data? Directly hitting the hardware? Umm no because UNIX based systems don't allow that.
You agreed to location tracking when you allowed apps to use that part of the OS.
Does anyone really think Apple is going to use this information? There are millions of people using iPhones/iPads. Do they really think that Apple cares about spending resources on tracking people in something that doesn't really add any value to their business?
Google on the other hand...
? Tell me again what the damage is if my consolidated.db gets exposed. What then? Do I have a right to privacy? Is it in the Constitution?
I am pretty sure it's covered under the 4th amendment when it comes to authorities. Private companies are a different beast.
That dude isn't coming back until he finds a better article on finance.google AAPL page
Someone once told me about something called Echelon and about GCHQ where they can listen-in to my phone conversations, read my SMS, email and even reproduce any fax messages I might send or receive.
Even if I had no tech toys on me and was living in some far out cave somewhere, the government has the ability to track me via satellite. Or so they say.
And I'm going to sit here and worry about cell tower locations on my iDevices?
Splinter Cell is only a game.
That being said Tom Clancy did used to work for the CIA so what we read in his books are more than likely real or being worked on.
Why is this an issue?
Because it is logged and stored on the device. What is the point of logging it to do all the things you talked about? Why does it need to be logged to do those things?
Google on the other hand...
...doesnt do this kinda thing without your explicit consent. Their system is Opt-in...you have to actually tell them you want to do it. You arent logged by default.
Someone once told me about something called Echelon and about GCHQ where they can listen-in to my phone conversations, read my SMS, email and even reproduce any fax messages I might send or receive.
Even if I had no tech toys on me and was living in some far out cave somewhere, the government has the ability to track me via satellite. Or so they say.
And I'm going to sit here and worry about cell tower locations on my iDevices?
Splinter Cell is only a game.
That being said Tom Clancy did used to work for the CIA so what we read in his books are more than likely real or being worked on.
Well, these things are more NSA activities. Clearly, they can listen to your phone conversations and read your SMS, and they've been monitoring international (at least) fax transmissions for years. (The fax thing is a simple matter of data capture of the fax image and then applying rather sophisticated OCR to it.)
... Do I have a right to privacy? Is it in the Constitution?
I am pretty sure it's covered under the 4th amendment when it comes to authorities. ...
The 1st, 3rd, 4th, 9th & 14th Amendments. Note particularly the 9th Amendment in relation to the original question:
The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
The right to privacy is fundamental to liberty. In fact, without privacy, there is no liberty. To the founders, this seemed so fundamental as to not require specific mention in the Constitution. Fortunately, they had the foresight to tell us that just because a right isn't mentioned in the Constitution, doesn't mean we don't have it.
[Google's] system is Opt-in...you have to actually tell them you want to do it. You arent logged by default.
Asking you if you want to use locations services, but failing to mention that you'll be sending personally identifiable location data back to Google HQ even when you aren't specifically using location based apps isn't exactly what I would call opt-in. To be able to opt-in, it has to be unambiguously disclosed to you exactly what you are opting in to. Google's highly invasive system is more like tricked-in.
Asking you if you want to use locations services, but failing to mention that you'll be sending personally identifiable location data back to Google HQ even when you aren't specifically using location based apps isn't exactly what I would call opt-in.
The point being, when you first start your Android device and connect your account to it, you are told very clearly that this information will be collected. It does not say "only when using so-and-so app". Its a check box. If you dont trust google, just uncheck it. Location services and stuff will all still work. You just wont be sending google data.
If Apple was not logging the info on the device, I would not even care. I dont think most people would. I dont think most people care about sending anonymous data to Google or Apple.
To be able to opt-in, it has to be unambiguously disclosed to you exactly what you are opting in to.
I disagree. I think all they are required to do is notify you that it is being done. If you want more details, you can pursue it from there.
Google's highly invasive system is more like tricked-in.
Google's system is invasive but Apple's is not? Apple doesnt even give you the option.
Because it is logged and stored on the device. What is the point of logging it to do all the things you talked about? Why does it need to be logged to do those things?
...doesnt do this kinda thing without your explicit consent. Their system is Opt-in...you have to actually tell them you want to do it. You arent logged by default.
Google lets you know what they want you to know. Even the guberment doesn't know what they are doing. Do you have a gmail account or do google searches? You are in for a big surprise.