Like it or not, you're still ignoring that ChomeBook is far more degraded when not connected than a $450 netbook/laptop.
Sams thing was said about the iPad to a comparably priced notebook, and that started at $500 not $349.
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Apps designed for local processing vs cloud processing will behave the same whether connected of not. A chrome webapp missing the backend processing will be far more limited.
No, you’re lying. Local apps work as local app just like any other local app. If your app needs to connect to the net and it’s not available you get the same issue from any system.
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Sure, you wont see this in angrybirds or most of google apps but not even the proverbial grandma or the average student is limited to just those sets of apps.
So you’re claiming that it can’t be a serious tool for some users? Have you forgotten already about the iPad?
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16GB for data and apps vs 250GB (typical 12" netbook HDD size) for data and apps makes a pretty big difference when off the network.
Again, this is blatant lie. You can have as much local storage with Chrome OS as you can with any other system. Except the iPad which makes you jump through hopes with expensive 3rd-party dongles and apps in order to access data via USB.
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So I'd still rather have a HP Pavillion dm1z which is faster and costs about the same as the Samsung Series 5 WiFi.
I’d rather have neither. I have zero personal interest in Chrome OS (or Windows or Android), but you’re confusing your interest and your needs with the goal and focus of this concept. You can bring up a 250GB HDD with Windows 7 all you want but there a great many machines that simply don’t need what Windows (or Mac OS) offers nor a large space for data. There have been plenty of great examples and scenarios throughout this thread already but here is another: An airline that offers WiFi on flights has found that not enough people are bringing their devices with them and aren’t getting the return on WiFi access that they wish. They decide to buy a handful of Chromebooks for each flight that can be rented (much like they do with headphones) that will allow customers a simple and secure way to read the airlines catalog online from the splash page and make purchases, and let them access anything they wish. With a long battery and zero config these would be a hit over renting a PC running Windows with a 2 hour battery for video playback. These Chromebooks would even allow people to create emails and send images of their trip right from a USB stick, HDD or SD Card securely. Once the machine is rebooted it auto-erases any history and starts from scratch. Flyers can log in via Guest, bypassing any and all Google services that they wish… just like they can now.
Being objective is seeing the value of something that offers you none.
Sams thing was said about the iPad to a comparably priced notebook, and that started at $500 not $349.
The iPad still functions as a complete unit without connectivity. I don't see the two as equal in terms of how the limitations work.
Google isn't Apple. Besides, if this were a Microsoft product folks would thinking it was an epic fail in the making and making Zune jokes.
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No, you?re lying. Local apps work as local app just like any other local app. If your app needs to connect to the net and it?s not available you get the same issue from any system.
Obviously because I disagree I am simply lying as opposed to having a different viewpoint.
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So you?re claiming that it can?t be a serious tool for some users? Have you forgotten already about the iPad?
No, I'm claiming that the mechanism for offline use is constrained by the architecture and design philosophy. If I'm designing a photoshop like app for the chromebook I'm far more likely to invest my time in optimizing for the designed environment: connected to a network. Meaning I'll likely put the heavy computing aspects on the server where it belongs and I can be pretty sloppy about it given I can just instance more servers if I really need to.
In a trade between optimization for an ARM or Atom to be performant vs time to market and an extra VM or two I know which most devs will pick every time. If the data already resides in the cloud (pictures, etc) and I have really thick pipes between my data stores and compute centers then I'm going to architect my app to take advantage of that rather than the thin 3G pipe and Atom on the client.
So you're going to see image editors in chromebook but it's going to be a lot more like SumoPaint or Aviary and I don't think you're going to get the same behavior as a cached app.
In comparison, if I'm designing a image editor for the iPad I'm going need to invest in optimizing the performance on the ARM natively. My performance bottlenecks are completely different than a webapp which needs to be performant across the network whether that's a rock solid FiOS link or a 3G link with 2 bars of service.
No, wait, I'm just lying.
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Again, this is blatant lie. You can have as much local storage with Chrome OS as you can with any other system. Except the iPad which makes you jump through hopes with expensive 3rd-party dongles and apps in order to access data via USB.
Yes, I'm lying about the 16GB SSD that Samsung shows on their site. I'm guessing that Chrome OS is not app caching to offboard storage...yes, that's just a guess but a reasonably educated one.
16GB isn't much. I've got a few huge apps (CoPilot, etc) that has a lot of internal data associated with them. To the point where app footprint impacts the number of movies I tend to keep on my 16GB iPad. There's some headroom but I honestly don't have THAT many apps or large games ...which are some of the largest.
Angry birds is an optimal example for Chromebook. Great fun, very popular but fairly minimal art assets and limited computing needs.
Compare to say a FPS shooter game that is rendering on the server and pushing the image across (viable if you're a network centric platform) or a RPG with lots of content that is streamed over to the chromebook as needed.
Tell me that appcaching for offline use will be as effective given the design decisions to optimize for the primary use case that ASSUMES decent connectivity between client and server.
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I?d rather have neither. I have zero personal interest in Chrome OS (or Windows or Android), but you?re confusing your interest and your needs with the goal and focus of this concept.
Eh, I'm saying that folks touting the chromebook as a great value are glossing over the fact that it's just an averaged priced netbook and not something special.
If I had some kind of weird emotional attachment I'd claim you guys were "lying" as opposed to overly enamored with the concept more than the execution is warranting. Folks were also claiming that Google changed the landscape when they came out with Google Wave.
Maybe...but that sure didn't last long. Apple strikes me as having a better track record of actually changing landscapes.
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You can bring up a 250GB HDD with Windows 7 all you want but there a great many machines that simply don?t need what Windows (or Mac OS) offers nor a large space for data. There have been plenty of great examples and scenarios throughout this thread already but here is another: An airline that offers WiFi on flights has found that not enough people are bringing their devices with them and aren?t getting the return on WiFi access that they wish. They decide to buy a handful of Chromebooks for each flight that can be rented (much like they do with headphones) that will allow customers a simple and secure way to read the airlines catalog online from the splash page and make purchases, and let them access anything they wish.
With a peak air-to-ground data rate of 1.2- 2.1 Mbps they're pretty lucky they don't have many folks hitting their wifi heavily. Row44 is offering 8 Mbps service but is still in the early deployment phase.
Ah...how many youtube streams and netflix streams is that?
Sure, each plane can have a local cache and it's own servers but wanna bet that a bunch of iPad 2 rentals would be better?
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With a long battery and zero config these would be a hit over renting a PC running Windows with a 2 hour battery for video playback.
The netbooks and laptops in that price range have 5 hourish battery life.
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These Chromebooks would even allow people to create emails and send images of their trip right from a USB stick, HDD or SD Card securely.
As would an android tablet. Or an iPad with a dongle...but that's an Apple thing vs a tablet vs chrome thing.
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Once the machine is rebooted it auto-erases any history and starts from scratch. Flyers can log in via Guest, bypassing any and all Google services that they wish? just like they can now.
Security is still something that remains to be seen. It's pretty easy to tout this as secure before it hits the wild.
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Being objective is seeing the value of something that offers you none.
Being objective is not calling other folks liars for disagreeing.
Yeah, it is. They are both a Linux kernel with a UI and apps built atop WebKit. The arguments have been that it’s impossible to have a decent OS when your only app is a “web browser”.
webOS isn't being marketed as a personal computer replacement for consumers, education or businesses. All webOS is is a handheld device platform spanning a lowend smartphone (Pixi, Veer), a higher end smartphone (Pre-, +, 2 and 3) and the 10" TouchPad.
It's a pretty big step to go from a handheld satellite device to a primary personal computing device, especially in the scenario of large installations in education and enterprise.
And the argument isn't that it is impossible to have a decent OS when your only app is a "web browser". No one is arguing against that. The basic argument from me is that I don't think ChromeOS systems will displace Windows systems in Education and Enterprise. Don't think there is much of a case in the consumer space for ChromeOS as the games, form factor and cost equation isn't their yet.
We are talking office drones here - bringing up your special case does nothing to invalidate Chrome for its intended purposes.
I'll need to see same data before I believe "office drones" don't use a lot of space in their drives or "students" don't use all the space in their drives. After 1 to 2 years, the cruft builds up.
I do think the data is already in on the ~12" versus ~15" display sizes, and people overwhelmingly want 15" display sizes, so ChromeOS is already starting with a handicap in its entrance to the market.
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Emailing large files around is why the cloud was invented. Most of my work with clients is to move them off email addiction which is the lowest and least useful form of collaboration.
We have web-browser based collaborative servers, with fancy check-in, check-out, routing services. In short: they suck. The user experience is terrible: slow, inflexible, limited.
Emailing is just a more natural and pleasant way to do it. No accessing the server, no downloading, no login gate. Yes, I would use a browser-based email the exactly the same way. Except it'll be slower, except for the locally cached data.
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Most MS Office files are small. MS themselves is trying to get you to do exactly the same via BPOS/Virtual Desktop/Azure cloud but with the deadweight of Windows holding it down. My Windows XP on a decent dual-core Lenovo T-series laptop takes 15 minutes before I can work. 15 minutes (used to be 22 before i got a local geek to hack the registry and remove some of the Corporate IT bloat/security overhead). Win 7 for my colleagues with the new T412s is no better (and has plenty of other bugs just in the bloatware). Chrome is much lighter weight and for the vast majority of office tasks will do as good or better job on cheaper hardware with less required support.
What makes you think ChromeOS systems won't be similarly burdened by the IT department. They want to be able see your screen and keystrokes afterall. At some point in the near future, our machines will be smartcard gated, oh joy.
At some point in the farther future, I bet facial recognition will be in play: the computer through the webcam must recognize the user before it unlocks.
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Windows support costs are massive for large companies. Licensing costs are multi-million dollars and involve annual maintenance fees of about 20% per year of the initial license. Upgrades are expensive, MS are constantly trying to upsell you crap you don't need or is inferior to best in class solutions. And that is before you've paid for your own IT support minions to tell you to "switch it off and on again". Chrome OS could very well incur a fraction of the cost of corporate IT spend per user per year when you count HW/SW/Support TCO. When hardware breaks, bring out new $100 box, plug in monitor/KB. No imaging the HD, no data recovery, no delay. It's almost the hot swappable desktop. That is the vision at least (and it's the one that MS will try to sell you for $Ms)
Yeah, that's the idea. But there's a free lunch here somewhere. Virtual storage through the cloud is going to be expensive. That service takes hardware, software, people, lots of resources to run. The theory is that this cloud will be cheaper to do than local backup and IT support. I don't buy that yet.
It could be cheaper if Google is subsidizing the service contract through increased ad-revenue from having more people see Google advertising. We will see. MS can respond by simply reduce licensing costs.
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Windows move to a cloud-centric OS is confusing, slow, and weak - why not cut out the pain for the standard office jobs and go Chrome? I am not so much pushing for Chrome as against the status quo which is generally pretty crappy despite the fact that we have all become used to it. Let's not confuse familiarity for quality.
Microsoft Office and Exchange is the best office automation set of tools available. It's really good. So, cost-benefit: better tools or less money.
webOS isn't being marketed as a personal computer replacement for consumers, education or businesses. All webOS is is a handheld device platform spanning a lowend smartphone (Pixi, Veer), a higher end smartphone (Pre-, +, 2 and 3) and the 10" TouchPad.
It's a pretty big step to go from a handheld satellite device to a primary personal computing device, especially in the scenario of large installations in education and enterprise.
And the argument isn't that it is impossible to have a decent OS when your only app is a "web browser". No one is arguing against that. The basic argument from me is that I don't think ChromeOS systems will displace Windows systems in Education and Enterprise. Don't think there is much of a case in the consumer space for ChromeOS as the games, form factor and cost equation isn't their yet.
1) Chrome OS is NOT being marketed as a replacement as a personal computer. They were very clear on the tie of usage it?s designed for.
2) The arguments here say that because it?s a browser-based UI that it cannot be used when you aren?t connected to the internet. I simply asked how WebOS, which is the exact same construct can still use apps when it?s not connected to the internet. Instead of getting a rational and intelligent, ?Huh, I see what you mean, WebKit as the UI doesn?t mean you can?t have quality apps stored and access locally.? I got this horseshit that its okay for WebKit to be the UI for a smartphone but not the Ui for Chrome OS.
In a briefing with reporters afterward, Brin was asked how many Google employees still use Windows. As a rough guess, he said it's about 20%. The rest must use Macs or Linux. But by next year, Brin hopes the vast majority of Googlers will be doing their work on Chrome OS.
"I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with Windows," Brin said. "Windows 7 has some great security features."
But Chrome OS, by putting most of a user's applications and data on the Web with some offline capabilities, presents a "stateless" model that Brin believes will eliminate complexity for users and IT departments by un-tethering people from machines that are difficult to set up and manage.
"With Microsoft, and other operating system vendors, I think the complexity of managing your computer is really torturing users," Brin said. "It's torturing everyone in this room. It's a flawed model fundamentally. Chromebooks are a new model that doesn't put the burden of managing the computer on yourself."
Google executives said they surveyed 400 companies and found that with a combination of Web applications, offline access to Google Docs and other services, and applications delivered through virtualization software, businesses could move 75% of their users onto Chrome OS devices.
75% of users in business? Vast majority of Google employees on ChromeOS by end of next year? That sounds to me that they want to displace Windows as the dominant personal computer system in the market. Yes, obviously, they are saying the all the vast majority of the market needs is the capabilities as being promulgated with ChromeOS.
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2) The arguments here say that because it?s a browser-based UI that it cannot be used when you aren?t connected to the internet. I simply asked how WebOS, which is the exact same construct can still use apps when it?s not connected to the internet. Instead of getting a rational and intelligent, ?Huh, I see what you mean, WebKit as the UI doesn?t mean you can?t have quality apps stored and access locally.? I got this horseshit that its okay for WebKit to be the UI for a smartphone but not the Ui for Chrome OS.
What's the point of this? It seems quite tangential to the discussion. One can design an operating system in basically any programming language out there. But there is a difference between web apps and apps built using HTML, CSS or Javascript. Look at the quote above. They are saying "some offline" capabilities. What that "some" means (Gdocs, Gmail, Calendar for sure), who knows, we'll see.
Me, the point doesn't matter that much. I just assume that every app in ChromeOS can be used offline and move on. My problems are that ChromeOS is starting out with a thin netbook architecture with hardly any storage. If you are going to go for it and grab the market, go for the middle, not some declining small laptop form factor based on a lackluster Intel architecture. There are data integrity, data availability, costs, exact capabilities/limitations, you name it potential issues, that haven't really been discussed.
No, not for all employees but for certain roles companies do indeed exclusively run cloud based apps.
First you have to show this beyond bald assertion. Then you have to show these exclusive cloud apps actually run on a non-windows platform. Meaning these are not active-x, java or silverlight apps which Chromebooks will not run.
Second, you have to show that authentication works via active directory and without the requirement that there be a Google apps account in the middle. LDAP Sync exists but requires exposure of the enterprise LDAP servers to the outside world.
These typically get accessed only via VPN by security conscious companies (i.e. the ones not getting as regularly pwned without knowing it).
Note: There's no VPN support in Chromebooks at the moment.
I followed this thread with interest to see the pros and cons about Cloud services and while it looks promising, I have more than enough qualms about it to agree with the dissenters. It has nothing to do with Chromebooks, it boils down on three things,
1) Do I trust Google with my data.
2) Can I expect good customer support from Google when things go wrong or will I or any customers get the Ann Althouse treatment
3) How will Google solve the data pipe issue in regards to uploading and downloading pentabytes of data to and from Chromebook thin clients from multinational businesses and schools nationwide.
And this apply also to Amazon Cloud, Apple Cloud, Windows Cloud and any other Cloud. There is a good thread going on at Zdnet, http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/googl...-strategy/3300. And 1 comment from CobraA1, sums it all. "At least when my computer crashes, it doesn't take the rest of the nation with it. "
I followed this thread with interest to see the pros and cons about Cloud services and while it looks promising, I have more than enough qualms about it to agree with the dissenters. It has nothing to do with Chromebooks, it boils down on three things,
1) Do I trust Google with my data.
2) Can I expect good customer support from Google when things go wrong or will I or any customers get the Ann Althouse treatment
3) How will Google solve the data pipe issue in regards to uploading and downloading pentabytes of data to and from Chromebook thin clients from multinational businesses and schools nationwide.
And this apply also to Amazon Cloud, Apple Cloud, Windows Cloud and any other Cloud. There is a good thread going on at Zdnet, http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/googl...-strategy/3300. And 1 comment from CobraA1, sums it all. "At least when my computer crashes, it doesn't take the rest of the nation with it. "
+++ QFT
I, personally, have a good 33-year experience with Apple as: Customer: Reseller; Vendor; User; Observer -- and would trust them more than the others.
But there are many things that I would not trust to an Apple cloud service -- no matter how good their intentions or secure their data policies.
3) How will Google solve the data pipe issue in regards to uploading and downloading pentabytes of data to and from Chromebook thin clients from multinational businesses and schools nationwide.
WHy you people can?t get past Chrome OS being usable without an internet connection is beyond my comprehension. How many times does it need to be stated and shown that it can read and write files form USB attached disks and doesn?t need any LAN or WAN access to function. It?s a UI based on WebKit, not an OS reliant on the web.
WHy you people can?t get past Chrome OS being usable without an internet connection is beyond my comprehension. How many times does it need to be stated and shown that it can read and write files form USB attached disks and doesn?t need any LAN or WAN access to function. It?s a UI based on WebKit, not an OS reliant on the web.
Okay, would it make you happy if I say that, how would Goggle, Apple, Amazon and Microsoft solve the data pipe issue in regards to uploading and downloading pentabytes of data to and from their respective thin clients from multinational businesses and schools nationwide considering the fact that all of them will be sharing the same pipeline. Whatever the Chrome OS capabilities are, they are irrelevant to the issue because at the end of the day, Google wants people and businesses to use it's Cloud services and that is the core of the issue.
Someone remind me, how does Google make money off of Chrome, again?
Chrome or Chrome OS?
For Chrome OS they have multiple avenues for revenue. First is when you do connect to the internet (as most users tend to do on a regular basis) they want you to connect with Google Docs, Google Search, Gmail and so on. They’ll get their revenue in that regard just as they would through Chrome browser or any other browser that connects to those services.
Other ways are by getting contracts for subscriptions of Chrome-based notebooks and desktops and embedded appliances. There primary goal is to simply take a small chunk from MS’ Windows marketshare for overpriced machines that do very basic tasks. If they can achieve this then Windows dominance could dwindle farther and there are many avenues that could open up for everyone is Windows loses its hold on the majority.
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Like it or not, you're still ignoring that ChomeBook is far more degraded when not connected than a $450 netbook/laptop.
Sams thing was said about the iPad to a comparably priced notebook, and that started at $500 not $349.
Apps designed for local processing vs cloud processing will behave the same whether connected of not. A chrome webapp missing the backend processing will be far more limited.
No, you’re lying. Local apps work as local app just like any other local app. If your app needs to connect to the net and it’s not available you get the same issue from any system.
Sure, you wont see this in angrybirds or most of google apps but not even the proverbial grandma or the average student is limited to just those sets of apps.
So you’re claiming that it can’t be a serious tool for some users? Have you forgotten already about the iPad?
16GB for data and apps vs 250GB (typical 12" netbook HDD size) for data and apps makes a pretty big difference when off the network.
Again, this is blatant lie. You can have as much local storage with Chrome OS as you can with any other system. Except the iPad which makes you jump through hopes with expensive 3rd-party dongles and apps in order to access data via USB.
So I'd still rather have a HP Pavillion dm1z which is faster and costs about the same as the Samsung Series 5 WiFi.
I’d rather have neither. I have zero personal interest in Chrome OS (or Windows or Android), but you’re confusing your interest and your needs with the goal and focus of this concept. You can bring up a 250GB HDD with Windows 7 all you want but there a great many machines that simply don’t need what Windows (or Mac OS) offers nor a large space for data. There have been plenty of great examples and scenarios throughout this thread already but here is another: An airline that offers WiFi on flights has found that not enough people are bringing their devices with them and aren’t getting the return on WiFi access that they wish. They decide to buy a handful of Chromebooks for each flight that can be rented (much like they do with headphones) that will allow customers a simple and secure way to read the airlines catalog online from the splash page and make purchases, and let them access anything they wish. With a long battery and zero config these would be a hit over renting a PC running Windows with a 2 hour battery for video playback. These Chromebooks would even allow people to create emails and send images of their trip right from a USB stick, HDD or SD Card securely. Once the machine is rebooted it auto-erases any history and starts from scratch. Flyers can log in via Guest, bypassing any and all Google services that they wish… just like they can now.
Being objective is seeing the value of something that offers you none.
Schools dont have the added expenses of maintaining their equipment. Always up-to-date, the IT department will love it.
Apple will have to seriously change their entire business model if this take off.
Sams thing was said about the iPad to a comparably priced notebook, and that started at $500 not $349.
The iPad still functions as a complete unit without connectivity. I don't see the two as equal in terms of how the limitations work.
Google isn't Apple. Besides, if this were a Microsoft product folks would thinking it was an epic fail in the making and making Zune jokes.
No, you?re lying. Local apps work as local app just like any other local app. If your app needs to connect to the net and it?s not available you get the same issue from any system.
Obviously because I disagree I am simply lying as opposed to having a different viewpoint.
So you?re claiming that it can?t be a serious tool for some users? Have you forgotten already about the iPad?
No, I'm claiming that the mechanism for offline use is constrained by the architecture and design philosophy. If I'm designing a photoshop like app for the chromebook I'm far more likely to invest my time in optimizing for the designed environment: connected to a network. Meaning I'll likely put the heavy computing aspects on the server where it belongs and I can be pretty sloppy about it given I can just instance more servers if I really need to.
In a trade between optimization for an ARM or Atom to be performant vs time to market and an extra VM or two I know which most devs will pick every time. If the data already resides in the cloud (pictures, etc) and I have really thick pipes between my data stores and compute centers then I'm going to architect my app to take advantage of that rather than the thin 3G pipe and Atom on the client.
So you're going to see image editors in chromebook but it's going to be a lot more like SumoPaint or Aviary and I don't think you're going to get the same behavior as a cached app.
In comparison, if I'm designing a image editor for the iPad I'm going need to invest in optimizing the performance on the ARM natively. My performance bottlenecks are completely different than a webapp which needs to be performant across the network whether that's a rock solid FiOS link or a 3G link with 2 bars of service.
No, wait, I'm just lying.
Again, this is blatant lie. You can have as much local storage with Chrome OS as you can with any other system. Except the iPad which makes you jump through hopes with expensive 3rd-party dongles and apps in order to access data via USB.
Yes, I'm lying about the 16GB SSD that Samsung shows on their site. I'm guessing that Chrome OS is not app caching to offboard storage...yes, that's just a guess but a reasonably educated one.
16GB isn't much. I've got a few huge apps (CoPilot, etc) that has a lot of internal data associated with them. To the point where app footprint impacts the number of movies I tend to keep on my 16GB iPad. There's some headroom but I honestly don't have THAT many apps or large games ...which are some of the largest.
Angry birds is an optimal example for Chromebook. Great fun, very popular but fairly minimal art assets and limited computing needs.
Compare to say a FPS shooter game that is rendering on the server and pushing the image across (viable if you're a network centric platform) or a RPG with lots of content that is streamed over to the chromebook as needed.
Tell me that appcaching for offline use will be as effective given the design decisions to optimize for the primary use case that ASSUMES decent connectivity between client and server.
I?d rather have neither. I have zero personal interest in Chrome OS (or Windows or Android), but you?re confusing your interest and your needs with the goal and focus of this concept.
Eh, I'm saying that folks touting the chromebook as a great value are glossing over the fact that it's just an averaged priced netbook and not something special.
If I had some kind of weird emotional attachment I'd claim you guys were "lying" as opposed to overly enamored with the concept more than the execution is warranting. Folks were also claiming that Google changed the landscape when they came out with Google Wave.
Maybe...but that sure didn't last long. Apple strikes me as having a better track record of actually changing landscapes.
You can bring up a 250GB HDD with Windows 7 all you want but there a great many machines that simply don?t need what Windows (or Mac OS) offers nor a large space for data. There have been plenty of great examples and scenarios throughout this thread already but here is another: An airline that offers WiFi on flights has found that not enough people are bringing their devices with them and aren?t getting the return on WiFi access that they wish. They decide to buy a handful of Chromebooks for each flight that can be rented (much like they do with headphones) that will allow customers a simple and secure way to read the airlines catalog online from the splash page and make purchases, and let them access anything they wish.
With a peak air-to-ground data rate of 1.2- 2.1 Mbps they're pretty lucky they don't have many folks hitting their wifi heavily. Row44 is offering 8 Mbps service but is still in the early deployment phase.
Ah...how many youtube streams and netflix streams is that?
Sure, each plane can have a local cache and it's own servers but wanna bet that a bunch of iPad 2 rentals would be better?
With a long battery and zero config these would be a hit over renting a PC running Windows with a 2 hour battery for video playback.
The netbooks and laptops in that price range have 5 hourish battery life.
These Chromebooks would even allow people to create emails and send images of their trip right from a USB stick, HDD or SD Card securely.
As would an android tablet. Or an iPad with a dongle...but that's an Apple thing vs a tablet vs chrome thing.
Once the machine is rebooted it auto-erases any history and starts from scratch. Flyers can log in via Guest, bypassing any and all Google services that they wish? just like they can now.
Security is still something that remains to be seen. It's pretty easy to tout this as secure before it hits the wild.
Being objective is seeing the value of something that offers you none.
Being objective is not calling other folks liars for disagreeing.
Being objective is not calling other folks liars for disagreeing.
I?m calling you a liar for lying not because you?re myopic in seeing the value in this concept for certain uses.
Yeah, it is. They are both a Linux kernel with a UI and apps built atop WebKit. The arguments have been that it’s impossible to have a decent OS when your only app is a “web browser”.
webOS isn't being marketed as a personal computer replacement for consumers, education or businesses. All webOS is is a handheld device platform spanning a lowend smartphone (Pixi, Veer), a higher end smartphone (Pre-, +, 2 and 3) and the 10" TouchPad.
It's a pretty big step to go from a handheld satellite device to a primary personal computing device, especially in the scenario of large installations in education and enterprise.
And the argument isn't that it is impossible to have a decent OS when your only app is a "web browser". No one is arguing against that. The basic argument from me is that I don't think ChromeOS systems will displace Windows systems in Education and Enterprise. Don't think there is much of a case in the consumer space for ChromeOS as the games, form factor and cost equation isn't their yet.
We are talking office drones here - bringing up your special case does nothing to invalidate Chrome for its intended purposes.
I'll need to see same data before I believe "office drones" don't use a lot of space in their drives or "students" don't use all the space in their drives. After 1 to 2 years, the cruft builds up.
I do think the data is already in on the ~12" versus ~15" display sizes, and people overwhelmingly want 15" display sizes, so ChromeOS is already starting with a handicap in its entrance to the market.
Emailing large files around is why the cloud was invented. Most of my work with clients is to move them off email addiction which is the lowest and least useful form of collaboration.
We have web-browser based collaborative servers, with fancy check-in, check-out, routing services. In short: they suck. The user experience is terrible: slow, inflexible, limited.
Emailing is just a more natural and pleasant way to do it. No accessing the server, no downloading, no login gate. Yes, I would use a browser-based email the exactly the same way. Except it'll be slower, except for the locally cached data.
Most MS Office files are small. MS themselves is trying to get you to do exactly the same via BPOS/Virtual Desktop/Azure cloud but with the deadweight of Windows holding it down. My Windows XP on a decent dual-core Lenovo T-series laptop takes 15 minutes before I can work. 15 minutes (used to be 22 before i got a local geek to hack the registry and remove some of the Corporate IT bloat/security overhead). Win 7 for my colleagues with the new T412s is no better (and has plenty of other bugs just in the bloatware). Chrome is much lighter weight and for the vast majority of office tasks will do as good or better job on cheaper hardware with less required support.
What makes you think ChromeOS systems won't be similarly burdened by the IT department. They want to be able see your screen and keystrokes afterall. At some point in the near future, our machines will be smartcard gated, oh joy.
At some point in the farther future, I bet facial recognition will be in play: the computer through the webcam must recognize the user before it unlocks.
Windows support costs are massive for large companies. Licensing costs are multi-million dollars and involve annual maintenance fees of about 20% per year of the initial license. Upgrades are expensive, MS are constantly trying to upsell you crap you don't need or is inferior to best in class solutions. And that is before you've paid for your own IT support minions to tell you to "switch it off and on again". Chrome OS could very well incur a fraction of the cost of corporate IT spend per user per year when you count HW/SW/Support TCO. When hardware breaks, bring out new $100 box, plug in monitor/KB. No imaging the HD, no data recovery, no delay. It's almost the hot swappable desktop. That is the vision at least (and it's the one that MS will try to sell you for $Ms)
Yeah, that's the idea. But there's a free lunch here somewhere. Virtual storage through the cloud is going to be expensive. That service takes hardware, software, people, lots of resources to run. The theory is that this cloud will be cheaper to do than local backup and IT support. I don't buy that yet.
It could be cheaper if Google is subsidizing the service contract through increased ad-revenue from having more people see Google advertising. We will see. MS can respond by simply reduce licensing costs.
Windows move to a cloud-centric OS is confusing, slow, and weak - why not cut out the pain for the standard office jobs and go Chrome? I am not so much pushing for Chrome as against the status quo which is generally pretty crappy despite the fact that we have all become used to it. Let's not confuse familiarity for quality.
Microsoft Office and Exchange is the best office automation set of tools available. It's really good. So, cost-benefit: better tools or less money.
webOS isn't being marketed as a personal computer replacement for consumers, education or businesses. All webOS is is a handheld device platform spanning a lowend smartphone (Pixi, Veer), a higher end smartphone (Pre-, +, 2 and 3) and the 10" TouchPad.
It's a pretty big step to go from a handheld satellite device to a primary personal computing device, especially in the scenario of large installations in education and enterprise.
And the argument isn't that it is impossible to have a decent OS when your only app is a "web browser". No one is arguing against that. The basic argument from me is that I don't think ChromeOS systems will displace Windows systems in Education and Enterprise. Don't think there is much of a case in the consumer space for ChromeOS as the games, form factor and cost equation isn't their yet.
1) Chrome OS is NOT being marketed as a replacement as a personal computer. They were very clear on the tie of usage it?s designed for.
2) The arguments here say that because it?s a browser-based UI that it cannot be used when you aren?t connected to the internet. I simply asked how WebOS, which is the exact same construct can still use apps when it?s not connected to the internet. Instead of getting a rational and intelligent, ?Huh, I see what you mean, WebKit as the UI doesn?t mean you can?t have quality apps stored and access locally.? I got this horseshit that its okay for WebKit to be the UI for a smartphone but not the Ui for Chrome OS.
Except that a similar cost netbook can run both cloud and native applications AND companies do not EXCLUSIVELY run cloud based apps.
No, not for all employees but for certain roles companies do indeed exclusively run cloud based apps.
I?m calling you a liar for lying not because you?re myopic in seeing the value in this concept for certain uses.
Are you bipolar or something? Because I seem to recall you being mostly sane other times.
.. The dog ate my ChromeBook!
1) Chrome OS is NOT being marketed as a replacement as a personal computer. They were very clear on the tie of usage it?s designed for.
So, what is it being marketing as?
Considering what Google executives are saying:
In a briefing with reporters afterward, Brin was asked how many Google employees still use Windows. As a rough guess, he said it's about 20%. The rest must use Macs or Linux. But by next year, Brin hopes the vast majority of Googlers will be doing their work on Chrome OS.
"I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with Windows," Brin said. "Windows 7 has some great security features."
But Chrome OS, by putting most of a user's applications and data on the Web with some offline capabilities, presents a "stateless" model that Brin believes will eliminate complexity for users and IT departments by un-tethering people from machines that are difficult to set up and manage.
"With Microsoft, and other operating system vendors, I think the complexity of managing your computer is really torturing users," Brin said. "It's torturing everyone in this room. It's a flawed model fundamentally. Chromebooks are a new model that doesn't put the burden of managing the computer on yourself."
Google executives said they surveyed 400 companies and found that with a combination of Web applications, offline access to Google Docs and other services, and applications delivered through virtualization software, businesses could move 75% of their users onto Chrome OS devices.
75% of users in business? Vast majority of Google employees on ChromeOS by end of next year? That sounds to me that they want to displace Windows as the dominant personal computer system in the market. Yes, obviously, they are saying the all the vast majority of the market needs is the capabilities as being promulgated with ChromeOS.
2) The arguments here say that because it?s a browser-based UI that it cannot be used when you aren?t connected to the internet. I simply asked how WebOS, which is the exact same construct can still use apps when it?s not connected to the internet. Instead of getting a rational and intelligent, ?Huh, I see what you mean, WebKit as the UI doesn?t mean you can?t have quality apps stored and access locally.? I got this horseshit that its okay for WebKit to be the UI for a smartphone but not the Ui for Chrome OS.
What's the point of this? It seems quite tangential to the discussion. One can design an operating system in basically any programming language out there. But there is a difference between web apps and apps built using HTML, CSS or Javascript. Look at the quote above. They are saying "some offline" capabilities. What that "some" means (Gdocs, Gmail, Calendar for sure), who knows, we'll see.
Me, the point doesn't matter that much. I just assume that every app in ChromeOS can be used offline and move on. My problems are that ChromeOS is starting out with a thin netbook architecture with hardly any storage. If you are going to go for it and grab the market, go for the middle, not some declining small laptop form factor based on a lackluster Intel architecture. There are data integrity, data availability, costs, exact capabilities/limitations, you name it potential issues, that haven't really been discussed.
Skepticism is warranted.
No, not for all employees but for certain roles companies do indeed exclusively run cloud based apps.
First you have to show this beyond bald assertion. Then you have to show these exclusive cloud apps actually run on a non-windows platform. Meaning these are not active-x, java or silverlight apps which Chromebooks will not run.
Second, you have to show that authentication works via active directory and without the requirement that there be a Google apps account in the middle. LDAP Sync exists but requires exposure of the enterprise LDAP servers to the outside world.
These typically get accessed only via VPN by security conscious companies (i.e. the ones not getting as regularly pwned without knowing it).
Note: There's no VPN support in Chromebooks at the moment.
1) Do I trust Google with my data.
2) Can I expect good customer support from Google when things go wrong or will I or any customers get the Ann Althouse treatment
3) How will Google solve the data pipe issue in regards to uploading and downloading pentabytes of data to and from Chromebook thin clients from multinational businesses and schools nationwide.
And this apply also to Amazon Cloud, Apple Cloud, Windows Cloud and any other Cloud. There is a good thread going on at Zdnet, http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/googl...-strategy/3300. And 1 comment from CobraA1, sums it all. "At least when my computer crashes, it doesn't take the rest of the nation with it. "
I followed this thread with interest to see the pros and cons about Cloud services and while it looks promising, I have more than enough qualms about it to agree with the dissenters. It has nothing to do with Chromebooks, it boils down on three things,
1) Do I trust Google with my data.
2) Can I expect good customer support from Google when things go wrong or will I or any customers get the Ann Althouse treatment
3) How will Google solve the data pipe issue in regards to uploading and downloading pentabytes of data to and from Chromebook thin clients from multinational businesses and schools nationwide.
And this apply also to Amazon Cloud, Apple Cloud, Windows Cloud and any other Cloud. There is a good thread going on at Zdnet, http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/googl...-strategy/3300. And 1 comment from CobraA1, sums it all. "At least when my computer crashes, it doesn't take the rest of the nation with it. "
+++ QFT
I, personally, have a good 33-year experience with Apple as: Customer: Reseller; Vendor; User; Observer -- and would trust them more than the others.
But there are many things that I would not trust to an Apple cloud service -- no matter how good their intentions or secure their data policies.
3) How will Google solve the data pipe issue in regards to uploading and downloading pentabytes of data to and from Chromebook thin clients from multinational businesses and schools nationwide.
WHy you people can?t get past Chrome OS being usable without an internet connection is beyond my comprehension. How many times does it need to be stated and shown that it can read and write files form USB attached disks and doesn?t need any LAN or WAN access to function. It?s a UI based on WebKit, not an OS reliant on the web.
WHy you people can?t get past Chrome OS being usable without an internet connection is beyond my comprehension. How many times does it need to be stated and shown that it can read and write files form USB attached disks and doesn?t need any LAN or WAN access to function. It?s a UI based on WebKit, not an OS reliant on the web.
Okay, would it make you happy if I say that, how would Goggle, Apple, Amazon and Microsoft solve the data pipe issue in regards to uploading and downloading pentabytes of data to and from their respective thin clients from multinational businesses and schools nationwide considering the fact that all of them will be sharing the same pipeline. Whatever the Chrome OS capabilities are, they are irrelevant to the issue because at the end of the day, Google wants people and businesses to use it's Cloud services and that is the core of the issue.
Someone remind me, how does Google make money off of Chrome, again?
Chrome or Chrome OS?
For Chrome OS they have multiple avenues for revenue. First is when you do connect to the internet (as most users tend to do on a regular basis) they want you to connect with Google Docs, Google Search, Gmail and so on. They’ll get their revenue in that regard just as they would through Chrome browser or any other browser that connects to those services.
Other ways are by getting contracts for subscriptions of Chrome-based notebooks and desktops and embedded appliances. There primary goal is to simply take a small chunk from MS’ Windows marketshare for overpriced machines that do very basic tasks. If they can achieve this then Windows dominance could dwindle farther and there are many avenues that could open up for everyone is Windows loses its hold on the majority.