Art is all subjective. Some people can look at a blank canvas and see absolutely nothing and other people can look at that same canvas and see something amazing.
Art is universal. When something is really beautiful it's really beautiful. You can have your own opinion all you want but it's just that: opinion. But what you're really wrong is.. if anything, the importance of architect is somewhat underrated.
PS: and if you think brick is ugly, two words: Mario Botta.
As to solar, it looks like they've gone with a structural glass roof across the entire thing. I would be surprised if some of that light doesn't penetrate deeper into the structure through light wells and more use of structural glass - as Jobs notes during the presentation - Apple have a lot of experience using monumental architectural glass.
Using sunlight to naturally light interiors is far better than inefficiently converting it to power, then inefficiently converting it back into light.
Because solar is still extremely inefficient. There is more power from a gas turbine than could be made with a massive array of solar panels which is actually an environmental nightmare when you're talking about so many trees.
The reflection from the panels will make those trees a ticking time bomb and I'm sure that's exactly what California needs is more risk of fire.
Uh, you really don't understand how solar works at all, do you?
Trees catching on fire? Really? Go work out the geometry and learn that even if they were 100% perfect mirrors that the reflected light doesn't go anywhere near the ground. (And solar panels are designed to be the opposite of mirrors - their entire purpose is to collect as much sun light as possible, not reflect it back.)
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I think what Google did with solar was quite admirable, and wish that Apple did more of the same. Unfortunately solar panels are generally at odds with aesthetics, which is why they aren't part of the Big Donut. It appears that they could be slated for the buildings that run along I-280, but that wasn't called out. In any case, there would still need to be an additional power source since solar probably couldn't supply all of Apple's needs.
I don’t understand the questions of residents’ gains and free WiFi? Sorry I am not American.
I read some of your comment and I still don’t understand. Please Lighten up on things.
Do the “council” have the power to say no? And why would they say no?
I didn’t watch the video yet. I hope it was a joke. It seems Jobs was threatening them who is in charge, who is more powerful and who pays their salary.
No problem, watch the video, then come back to this thread.
It's the other way around. In the USA, anyone (literally, if you watch the video) can become a city councillor. And in this case, it wasn't a case of Steve saying, DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM???, he was respectfully presenting the plans and answering questions, of which some were legitimate concerns, and some were silly like the city councillors wanting free iPads and what not.
As you are not American (and neither am I, though I have travelled a lot), you would normally assume Steve Jobs would walk in there and "threaten" them. Like I said, in most developing countries, someone like Steve Jobs wouldn't even have to show up. Whatever he wanted, the government (country, state, city, village, whatever) would simply bow to whatever his wishes were.
I'm living in a country where you can't even be Prime Minister if you are not Muslim, even if you are a citizen. And this ain't the Middle East. The government recently paraded all the Christian church leaders out in front of the media as they were accused of "plotting to put a Christian Prime Minister in power".
Anyway, with regard to the actual approval process, I'm sure someone more familiar with Silicon Valley can comment. They can say "No", but that would be suicide for the city. All they need to do is due dilligence, or at least show some of that if it's just rubber-stamping the approval.
Steve has had a lot of problems with another city, well, town, in this case Woodside, with regards to his plan to demolish an old house of apparent historic value which he bought. I think this Cupertino presentation was a big PR and perhaps an expression of "wanting to play by the rules" move to make sure no problems crop up with the new Apple campus.
But what you're really wrong is that.. if anything, the importance of architect is somewhat underrated.
I'm not really saying that though. The wrong architect or a bad architect on a particular project can be disastrous. I was mainly trying to say that it doesn't take a genius to come up with a square or a rectangle or a circle shaped structure.
I wish I could recount some of the stories I heard about the custom architecture of the NeXT campus back in the day, but I don't have time right now.
One aspect of all that glass that I'm not fond of is the heat load from the sun. If not done properly the south-facing rooms all have their blinds drawn most of the time, and the air-conditioning becomes a huge operating cost. I would hope and assume that the architects know all this and compensate accordingly, but I would rather see something in that climate with a lot more shade overhangs.
(I've spent summers in Silicon Valley, and it typically hovers around 80-90 degrees fahrenheit for five months out of the year. Corporate architects and clients often have more design ego than brains, and I don't think Jobs, for all his accomplishments, is above this.)
Does any one know whether some of the glass panels are actually solar panels? May be that could be a surprise SJ did not want to reveal !!
As to solar, it looks like they've gone with a structural glass roof across the entire thing. I would be surprised if some of that light doesn't penetrate deeper into the structure through light wells and more use of structural glass - as Jobs notes during the presentation - Apple have a lot of experience using monumental architectural glass.
Using sunlight to naturally light interiors is far better than inefficiently converting it to power, then inefficiently converting it back into light.
While true about natural light being nice, most office modern buildings even need cooling in the winter. Remember, all the computers, lights and people add up to alot of heat. It's only on the weekends or long shutdowns of the building that heat would be required.
Do you realize the 'green' efforts and accomplishments that Steve has lead Apple to achieve?
Is your home solar powered?
No, my home is not solar powered. Then again, I do not employ 12,000 of some of the best employees on the planet and make billions of dollars in profit each month.
The design and the efforts made into the new Apple campus is significant. I'm just saying it's not on the absolute cutting edge of "green buildings".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
It's in California, a lot of commies and liberals live there. They were looking for free handouts.
Aw come on, everyone wants free iPads and free WiFi, not just commies and liberals
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwik
At the Cupertino City Council, they ought to treat him like Jesus. He just proposed an environmental improvement, a sensitive architecture landmark and 12,000 jobs?!
This is one of the kind of things preventing the absolute collapse of Western civilisation. That one of the richest and most powerful men on Earth can be humble (at least outwardly) and at least give an appearance of "playing by the rules", is... hopeful.
I'm not really saying that though. The wrong architect or a bad architect on a particular project can be disastrous. I was mainly trying to say that it doesn't take a genius to come up with a square or a rectangle or a circle shaped structure.
Architects generally do more than draw a simple geometric shape on paper and hand that in.
The fact the end result looks so simple and part of the landscape is part of the reason you hire them - they know what they're doing. It's all about the size relative to other structures, the angles and curves and edges and lines and making sure that it is engineeringly possible.
Does any one know whether some of the glass panels are actually solar panels? May be that could be a surprise SJ did not want to reveal !!
It was the "One More Thing"... If he had said that the crowd in the city council building would have gone wild!
"But there is... One More Thing... Notice how the building is shaped like a particle accelerator. Well, that's exactly how we're going to generate our own electricity. We call it, iCollider. By 2020 all our Apple Retail Stores around the world will be powered by their own iCollider nano, and available to the public in 2025.
Just like we make our own hardware to take advantage of our amazing software, iCollider will only power Apple-curated appliances, devices and transportation, because we want the customer to have the best renewable energy experience possible."
The councillors were of course just asking some due diligence questions for the sake of PR and procedure, etc... Apologies for my prior race-related comment if it was offensive.
But certainly the councillors were almost squealing like schoolgirls, how many office campuses put a smile on their face like that.
This whole thing was like William Shatner going to some Star Trek nerd's basement to help out in a scene they were recreating (ala Galaxy Quest).
You can imagine the only reason why Apple is in Cupertino is because Steve grew up there and doesn't want to move. As hinted by some of the councillors, one can only imagine what other mayors, governors and heads of states of all kinds of countries would have offered Steve. For example ILM has a Singapore office now, met a guy that just moved there from the SF Bay Area when I went on holiday to a popular Malaysian island (not too far from Singapore).
If it was not for all the talent, Apple could move to some country that is no income taxes. Or just keep the R and D in CA and move the headquarters to a tax free country or principality like Monte Carlo. Manufacturing is in China anyway. CA has hi confiscatory taxes on top of the Fed taxes. Not to mention a sense of entitlement especially with the politicians! Yea, free WiFi!
Architects generally do more than draw a simple geometric shape on paper and hand that in.
The fact the end result looks so simple and part of the landscape is part of the reason you hire them - they know what they're doing. It's all about the size relative to other structures, the angles and curves and edges and lines and making sure that it is engineeringly possible.
I agree with everything that you wrote. I was mainly referring to the initial design idea. Of course it would take a whole lot of knowledge to build that simple looking circle and make it structurally sound, aesthetically pleasing, environmentally friendly etc.
I thought the point of being off the grid was interesting. Not sure I understand that. If the main grid goes down due to earth quake most likely gas will be shut off. I get the impression it's a jab at the rolling blackouts that occur during peak usage times in heat waves. Google and others have some fuel cells, i wonder if thats what is in mind? Thoughts anyone?
Cheap people could always just head on down to their nearest Starbucks or McDonalds if they want free wifi.
I know, I know.
Like I said though, sadly, in most parts of the world, giving an official an iPad 2 or iPhone 4 is *literally* all you need to do to get your building project approved.
Comments
Art is all subjective. Some people can look at a blank canvas and see absolutely nothing and other people can look at that same canvas and see something amazing.
Art is universal. When something is really beautiful it's really beautiful. You can have your own opinion all you want but it's just that: opinion. But what you're really wrong is.. if anything, the importance of architect is somewhat underrated.
PS: and if you think brick is ugly, two words: Mario Botta.
As to solar, it looks like they've gone with a structural glass roof across the entire thing. I would be surprised if some of that light doesn't penetrate deeper into the structure through light wells and more use of structural glass - as Jobs notes during the presentation - Apple have a lot of experience using monumental architectural glass.
Using sunlight to naturally light interiors is far better than inefficiently converting it to power, then inefficiently converting it back into light.
Because solar is still extremely inefficient. There is more power from a gas turbine than could be made with a massive array of solar panels which is actually an environmental nightmare when you're talking about so many trees.
The reflection from the panels will make those trees a ticking time bomb and I'm sure that's exactly what California needs is more risk of fire.
Uh, you really don't understand how solar works at all, do you?
Trees catching on fire? Really? Go work out the geometry and learn that even if they were 100% perfect mirrors that the reflected light doesn't go anywhere near the ground. (And solar panels are designed to be the opposite of mirrors - their entire purpose is to collect as much sun light as possible, not reflect it back.)
------
I think what Google did with solar was quite admirable, and wish that Apple did more of the same. Unfortunately solar panels are generally at odds with aesthetics, which is why they aren't part of the Big Donut. It appears that they could be slated for the buildings that run along I-280, but that wasn't called out. In any case, there would still need to be an additional power source since solar probably couldn't supply all of Apple's needs.
I don’t understand the questions of residents’ gains and free WiFi? Sorry I am not American.
I read some of your comment and I still don’t understand. Please Lighten up on things.
Do the “council” have the power to say no? And why would they say no?
I didn’t watch the video yet. I hope it was a joke. It seems Jobs was threatening them who is in charge, who is more powerful and who pays their salary.
No problem, watch the video, then come back to this thread.
It's the other way around. In the USA, anyone (literally, if you watch the video) can become a city councillor. And in this case, it wasn't a case of Steve saying, DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM???, he was respectfully presenting the plans and answering questions, of which some were legitimate concerns, and some were silly like the city councillors wanting free iPads and what not.
As you are not American (and neither am I, though I have travelled a lot), you would normally assume Steve Jobs would walk in there and "threaten" them. Like I said, in most developing countries, someone like Steve Jobs wouldn't even have to show up. Whatever he wanted, the government (country, state, city, village, whatever) would simply bow to whatever his wishes were.
I'm living in a country where you can't even be Prime Minister if you are not Muslim, even if you are a citizen. And this ain't the Middle East. The government recently paraded all the Christian church leaders out in front of the media as they were accused of "plotting to put a Christian Prime Minister in power".
Anyway, with regard to the actual approval process, I'm sure someone more familiar with Silicon Valley can comment. They can say "No", but that would be suicide for the city. All they need to do is due dilligence, or at least show some of that if it's just rubber-stamping the approval.
Steve has had a lot of problems with another city, well, town, in this case Woodside, with regards to his plan to demolish an old house of apparent historic value which he bought. I think this Cupertino presentation was a big PR and perhaps an expression of "wanting to play by the rules" move to make sure no problems crop up with the new Apple campus.
It's in California, a lot of commies and liberals live there. They were looking for free handouts.
Your not doing too well today with your comments, perhaps you should just just take today off... Gesh.
But what you're really wrong is that.. if anything, the importance of architect is somewhat underrated.
I'm not really saying that though. The wrong architect or a bad architect on a particular project can be disastrous. I was mainly trying to say that it doesn't take a genius to come up with a square or a rectangle or a circle shaped structure.
I wish I could recount some of the stories I heard about the custom architecture of the NeXT campus back in the day, but I don't have time right now.
One aspect of all that glass that I'm not fond of is the heat load from the sun. If not done properly the south-facing rooms all have their blinds drawn most of the time, and the air-conditioning becomes a huge operating cost. I would hope and assume that the architects know all this and compensate accordingly, but I would rather see something in that climate with a lot more shade overhangs.
(I've spent summers in Silicon Valley, and it typically hovers around 80-90 degrees fahrenheit for five months out of the year. Corporate architects and clients often have more design ego than brains, and I don't think Jobs, for all his accomplishments, is above this.)
Does any one know whether some of the glass panels are actually solar panels? May be that could be a surprise SJ did not want to reveal !!
now has a west coast response to the Pentagon.
As to solar, it looks like they've gone with a structural glass roof across the entire thing. I would be surprised if some of that light doesn't penetrate deeper into the structure through light wells and more use of structural glass - as Jobs notes during the presentation - Apple have a lot of experience using monumental architectural glass.
Using sunlight to naturally light interiors is far better than inefficiently converting it to power, then inefficiently converting it back into light.
While true about natural light being nice, most office modern buildings even need cooling in the winter. Remember, all the computers, lights and people add up to alot of heat. It's only on the weekends or long shutdowns of the building that heat would be required.
Did you watch the entire presentation?
Do you realize the 'green' efforts and accomplishments that Steve has lead Apple to achieve?
Is your home solar powered?
No, my home is not solar powered. Then again, I do not employ 12,000 of some of the best employees on the planet and make billions of dollars in profit each month.
The design and the efforts made into the new Apple campus is significant. I'm just saying it's not on the absolute cutting edge of "green buildings".
It's in California, a lot of commies and liberals live there. They were looking for free handouts.
At the Cupertino City Council, they ought to treat him like Jesus. He just proposed an environmental improvement, a sensitive architecture landmark and 12,000 jobs?!
This is one of the kind of things preventing the absolute collapse of Western civilisation. That one of the richest and most powerful men on Earth can be humble (at least outwardly) and at least give an appearance of "playing by the rules", is... hopeful.
I'm not really saying that though. The wrong architect or a bad architect on a particular project can be disastrous. I was mainly trying to say that it doesn't take a genius to come up with a square or a rectangle or a circle shaped structure.
Architects generally do more than draw a simple geometric shape on paper and hand that in.
The fact the end result looks so simple and part of the landscape is part of the reason you hire them - they know what they're doing. It's all about the size relative to other structures, the angles and curves and edges and lines and making sure that it is engineeringly possible.
Did you watch the entire presentation?
Do you realize the 'green' efforts and accomplishments that Steve has lead Apple to achieve?
Is your home solar powered?
Seriously. Anyone not thinking that this is a green building is smoking some of that weed.
He mentioned natural gas as their primary power source. Probably to power Bloom boxes (fuel cells) which can be switched to renewable fuel sources.
http://www.bloomenergy.com/products/
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?...ted;photovideo
Does any one know whether some of the glass panels are actually solar panels? May be that could be a surprise SJ did not want to reveal !!
It was the "One More Thing"... If he had said that the crowd in the city council building would have gone wild!
"But there is... One More Thing... Notice how the building is shaped like a particle accelerator. Well, that's exactly how we're going to generate our own electricity. We call it, iCollider. By 2020 all our Apple Retail Stores around the world will be powered by their own iCollider nano, and available to the public in 2025.
Just like we make our own hardware to take advantage of our amazing software, iCollider will only power Apple-curated appliances, devices and transportation, because we want the customer to have the best renewable energy experience possible."
Does any one know whether some of the glass panels are actually solar panels? May be that could be a surprise SJ did not want to reveal !!
I don't think curved glass is effective as a solar panel.
The councillors were of course just asking some due diligence questions for the sake of PR and procedure, etc... Apologies for my prior race-related comment if it was offensive.
But certainly the councillors were almost squealing like schoolgirls, how many office campuses put a smile on their face like that.
This whole thing was like William Shatner going to some Star Trek nerd's basement to help out in a scene they were recreating (ala Galaxy Quest).
You can imagine the only reason why Apple is in Cupertino is because Steve grew up there and doesn't want to move. As hinted by some of the councillors, one can only imagine what other mayors, governors and heads of states of all kinds of countries would have offered Steve. For example ILM has a Singapore office now, met a guy that just moved there from the SF Bay Area when I went on holiday to a popular Malaysian island (not too far from Singapore).
If it was not for all the talent, Apple could move to some country that is no income taxes. Or just keep the R and D in CA and move the headquarters to a tax free country or principality like Monte Carlo. Manufacturing is in China anyway. CA has hi confiscatory taxes on top of the Fed taxes. Not to mention a sense of entitlement especially with the politicians! Yea, free WiFi!
Architects generally do more than draw a simple geometric shape on paper and hand that in.
The fact the end result looks so simple and part of the landscape is part of the reason you hire them - they know what they're doing. It's all about the size relative to other structures, the angles and curves and edges and lines and making sure that it is engineeringly possible.
I agree with everything that you wrote. I was mainly referring to the initial design idea. Of course it would take a whole lot of knowledge to build that simple looking circle and make it structurally sound, aesthetically pleasing, environmentally friendly etc.
Maybe I've missed this one, but do they have a pyramid somewhere yet?
Haven't you heard, Apple bought the Louvre. Just last week I think.
Cheap people could always just head on down to their nearest Starbucks or McDonalds if they want free wifi.
Cheap people could always just head on down to their nearest Starbucks or McDonalds if they want free wifi.
I know, I know.
Like I said though, sadly, in most parts of the world, giving an official an iPad 2 or iPhone 4 is *literally* all you need to do to get your building project approved.