I agree about the ill will and hate. Stupid. However I feel sorry for the types that will try this and wind up bricking their ATV. They of course will try to obtain warranty service and will probably be denied. Who will they blame? Themselves? Nope. It will the evil Apple they blame. Apple takes the hit on customer satisfaction. Apple's name is dragged through the mud. The anonymous hackers are off the hook. On the other hand your are only out $99 if you hose your ATV and Apple tells you to take a hike.
Jailbreakers are not good for the Apple community n any way.
Jailbreakers have a lot in common with some of those hackers from the 70's. I remember two of them were called Woz and Jobs. I heard their exploits eventually resulted in some pretty cool stuff.
For those confused about what jail breaking does, it just gives the owner of an iDevice the same control as Mac users have had on their Macs for the past 27 years. This ain't exactly Bonny and Clyde we're talking about.
[QUOTE=inkswamp;2017922]Webapps can be saved to the home screen as icons which launch as their own process separate from Safari. All that infrastructure for Webapps is built-in to iOS to this day (and woefully underused, IMO. Apple did an amazing job with it, and it's something Android still can't do to this day.) QUOTE]
Are you certain Android-compatible devices can't display an onscreen icon for webapps? If you add a GMail launch icon for instance, isn't it really just a launcher for a webapp? Or are you talking about something totally different?
EDIT: I'm not going to pretend to know much about developing for Android. FWIW there's several Google tutorials that have to do with adding web-apps to an Android-compatible device.
Just like the? I'm trying to think of a system in the "battle for the living room" that does both video content and gaming. And I can't. Because there isn't one.
You can't get games on your DVR and you can't view broadcast content on your Wii/PS3/360.
The Xbox360, PS3 and Wii all support video content and gaming. In fact the majority of Netflix streaming is viewed on games consoles. With the latest version of the 360 dashboard, MS is busy adding options for watching both live and on demand video content from providers like Comcast, Verizon, HBO, the BBC and more.
Apple couldn't care less about games. They never have.
Although I know that gaming caught Apple off guard wrt advices, I disagree with that. Look at its demo for airplay mirroring (a game). There's also Game Center. If Apple didn't care then why bother with any of that? And btw, I think Apple's emphasis on better graphics for ipad2 was due to the casual gaming market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Since the ability to use different home screens was available before you could save web apps TO the Springboard, I do argue this.
Are you sure about that? I had the original iPhone from when it was released until this year and I don't remember a time when you couldn't save web apps and bookmarks to the home screen. I remember increased functionality for it (local storage, etc.) but I don't remember them not being available at all. In fact, I remember a section on Apple's website specifically for web apps.
And we have the cloud/streaming games, which are ideal for the TV as you only need a very small app and you can get the highest-end games without downloading.
As for the controls, it can be done fairly easily without buttons. I reckon it can be done with a 3-pad remote - the splits are largely technically superficial but are important:
It would have a gyroscope and accelerometer and the 3 pads would simply be areas to touch for control. So in an FPS game, you hold it horizontally and the left pad is directional, the right is your camera view. You can possibly tap on the back to fire so you can aim and shoot. The centre pad is for changing weapons by swiping left/right/up/down and for menus (two fingers).
An xbox 360 controller has 2 analog sticks, 2 analog buttons and 14 digital buttons. The 3-pad covers the analog sticks + 2 taps on the back (left/right or even the sides of the remote) + 1 tap on the right + 6 buttons in the middle + accelerometer/gyro for 2 analog buttons. So only say 5 digital buttons short but you can cover these functions easily e.g crouch is two finger swipe down on the right, prone is 3 finger swipe down, Flashlight is two-finger twist. Assuming the Wii-like movement too, you get all of the right pad free.
I really styled it like that as a way to input text easily but I'm not so sure it would be practical. Each pad would be mapped to a grid of 9 characters = 27 characters shown on screen and you simply swipe the direction for each letter and swipe the grid type for punctuation and numbers. Two finger swipe up for caps.
The biggest problem with it would be cost and making it immediately intuitive but the advantage with a blank slate is the user makes it as simple or as complex as it needs to be - like the Magic Mouse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor. Peabody
As a major user of AppleTV (It's the only thing I have connected to my TV at all), I can say that simply having a field of apps to click instead of the tedious "menu within menu" aspect of the current UI would be a huge improvement.
I'm not a huge fan of the menu UI but I think any UI will still require a lot of clicks with a basic remote depending on how they arrange the options. If each icon was a direct option, it would be much quicker but you'd need a way to arrange the icons easily. They could allow this to be done on a computer but it would be better done on the device.
And if Apple really cared, they would have FOUGHT to keep them away from Microsoft.
Can you imagine Halo having been exclusively on the Mac? But where are we now? There's not even a version of Halo 2 for the Mac that doesn't run outside of Cider.
And by "run" I mean to say that this is as far as I've gotten:
I still think that with such a small window of time, Apple was already thinking ahead for that purpose AND native apps. BTW, I don't believe Apple created the app store due to jailbreakers. I think Apple had it in mind but was still ironing out the kinks on how to implement it well.
Of course I am. I'm not part of the click here so I will always be wrong and you will always be right.
BTW, if that a proper expression anymore, part of the click? We don't click anymore. We tap. So I"m not part of the tap. And I'll bet I'm not allowed to drink from the tap either.
As far as what I said about the Mac, it's so painfully obvious I won't waste my time debating it with you. If you don't see it or don't believe it, that's your right. I'll give you your opinion, even though you won't give me mine. Fair enough?
I'll really make your day and leave now. Happy New Year to you and all your rude friends in the tap.
Of course I am. I'm not part of the click here so I will always be wrong and you will always be right.
Not the case in the slightest. Don't act like that. You happen to be completely wrong in this instance. It's laughable to think what you've said is the truth.
Quote:
BTW, if that a proper expression anymore, part of the click? We don't click anymore.
That's because it's 'clique'.
Quote:
As far as what I said about the Mac, it's so painfully obvious I won't waste my time debating it with you.
So? you want to be a troll, then? You have zero proof for your outlandish claims, history shows the complete opposite of what you're saying, and future trends don't lead to what you're claiming.
Thanks for giving up, though, instead of providing the proof that doesn't exist.
Just like the? I'm trying to think of a system in the "battle for the living room" that does both video content and gaming. And I can't. Because there isn't one.
You can't get games on your DVR and you can't view broadcast content on your Wii/PS3/360.
I think you are forgetting that for twelve months after the iPhone was released the only way to run native apps was to jailbreak the phone. Steve Jobs was initially in favor of web apps. It was jail breaking and home brew apps that really demonstrated the demand for native apps.
Apple announced an iPhone SDK was in development to develop native apps less than four months after the iPhone was released. Steve Jobs was initially resistant to the idea of third-party apps, but pressure from within Apple and third parties convinced him otherwise. And let's be honest, at the time the third-party apps available on smart phones were absolutely terrible and overpriced (how many Nibbles clones did we need?) I have seen better software on a TI graphing calculator.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando
And because of this Apple is losing the battle for the living room. The AppleTV needs a system selling feature such as gaming or it will remain a hobby.
Gaming is not what is holding the AppleTV back. It is the fact that streaming services like Netflix are a superior offering to consumers. I want to see something that gives both cable AND Netflix a run for their money.
Really, guys? Do you really need to wish general ill on people that have done nothing to you? I think it says more about who you really are than the people that you hate.
Jeff: Why didn't you quote ConradJoe's entire post?
Notice the /s at the end???
Some, maybe even ALL of us, think that is a sign for SARCASM!!!
CJ: Care to weigh in on this? Maybe you have but I haven't read to the end of the 70 or so posts.
Now, the second guy should also have noticed the /s and realized it was sarcasm, but still he didn't need wish the ill will.
Really, guys? Do you really need to wish general ill on people that have done nothing to you? I think it says more about who you really are than the people that you hate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Except it wasn't there when he posted it. He added it after the fact to prevent himself being banned.
It doesn't show it as being edited, or does this site not show that?
If he added it later, he's an a**. Actually, anyone who attacks another on any site like this is an a**.
When the 1st iPhone and iPod touch were released then Jailbreaked, we saw a flood of really excellent 3rd party software for those devices.
The Apple TV has been Jailbreaked for awhile, but where are the apps? Until real app developers figure out what if anything should run on Apple TV these kinds of cracks are pointless. And if developers do figure it out, you can be sure Apple will be there to capitalize on it.
Are you certain Android-compatible devices can't display an onscreen icon for webapps? If you add a GMail launch icon for instance, isn't it really just a launcher for a webapp? Or are you talking about something totally different?
EDIT: I'm not going to pretend to know much about developing for Android. FWIW there's several Google tutorials that have to do with adding web-apps to an Android-compatible device.
Android devices can display onscreen icons for webapps. What iOS can do, that Android cannot, is launch a webapp as its own process. Android, to the best of my research, cannot do that.
When you save a webapp bookmark to your homescreen and launch it from there, it appears as its own process in the program switcher, distinct from Safari. (The developer can even include iOS-specific HTML extensions to help the device find a custom app icon, startup image, etc.) The point is, iOS treats that bookmark as its own app if it's coded properly as a webapp.
When a user on Android launches a webapp from the homescreen, it simply opens the browser and runs there as a web page, like a desktop URL shortcut. It's a subtle difference for the end user but a major difference for developers.
Since the ability to use different home screens was available before you could save web apps TO the Springboard, I do argue this.
You'll have to elaborate. I don't see how the presence of multiple homescreens (hidden feature or otherwise) was evidence that Apple favored native apps over Webapps, especially when you consider how elaborate and well-developed iOS's support for running Webapps was from day one. The infrastructure for treating Webapps as first-class citizens on the iPhone was there from the start. The system is designed to launch Webapps as their own process and treat them as their own app, not connected to Safari. I run my own Webapp that way daily. It's beautiful and sad that it has been so underutilized by developers.
Anyway, I see far more support for the idea that Apple intended Webapps to be the future for iOS, not native apps. I think you're reading way too much into a minor detail.
I could think of a few that I would like as widgets. Of course Lion screwed up the widgets since they go to a new screen instead of overlaying the desktop. I used to use the calculator to add up numbers in an email or web page but now you can't do that any more, at least as far as I know, since the list of numbers is not visible after invoking the widgets. One app in particular that would be helpful is iConvert which I use all the time on my iPhone but it would be quite convenient on the Mac as well. Until I can figure out how to have widgets overlay the desktop in Lion, it is a non issue. Fortunately I'm still on SL for my workstation at the office, using Lion only on my MBP.
Don't know if this has been answered (haven't read every post)- but if you go to settings and uncheck the box of dashboard being it's own space, it'll be like it was.
Comments
I agree about the ill will and hate. Stupid. However I feel sorry for the types that will try this and wind up bricking their ATV. They of course will try to obtain warranty service and will probably be denied. Who will they blame? Themselves? Nope. It will the evil Apple they blame. Apple takes the hit on customer satisfaction. Apple's name is dragged through the mud. The anonymous hackers are off the hook. On the other hand your are only out $99 if you hose your ATV and Apple tells you to take a hike.
Jailbreakers are not good for the Apple community n any way.
Jailbreakers have a lot in common with some of those hackers from the 70's. I remember two of them were called Woz and Jobs. I heard their exploits eventually resulted in some pretty cool stuff.
For those confused about what jail breaking does, it just gives the owner of an iDevice the same control as Mac users have had on their Macs for the past 27 years. This ain't exactly Bonny and Clyde we're talking about.
Are you certain Android-compatible devices can't display an onscreen icon for webapps? If you add a GMail launch icon for instance, isn't it really just a launcher for a webapp? Or are you talking about something totally different?
EDIT: I'm not going to pretend to know much about developing for Android. FWIW there's several Google tutorials that have to do with adding web-apps to an Android-compatible device.
http://developer.android.com/guide/w...practices.html
On stage.
It wasn't just on stage, even in private Steve Jobs was opposed to 3rd party native apps on the iPhone.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...bs-apps-iphone
Just like the? I'm trying to think of a system in the "battle for the living room" that does both video content and gaming. And I can't. Because there isn't one.
You can't get games on your DVR and you can't view broadcast content on your Wii/PS3/360.
The Xbox360, PS3 and Wii all support video content and gaming. In fact the majority of Netflix streaming is viewed on games consoles. With the latest version of the 360 dashboard, MS is busy adding options for watching both live and on demand video content from providers like Comcast, Verizon, HBO, the BBC and more.
Apple couldn't care less about games. They never have.
Although I know that gaming caught Apple off guard wrt advices, I disagree with that. Look at its demo for airplay mirroring (a game). There's also Game Center. If Apple didn't care then why bother with any of that? And btw, I think Apple's emphasis on better graphics for ipad2 was due to the casual gaming market.
Since the ability to use different home screens was available before you could save web apps TO the Springboard, I do argue this.
Are you sure about that? I had the original iPhone from when it was released until this year and I don't remember a time when you couldn't save web apps and bookmarks to the home screen. I remember increased functionality for it (local storage, etc.) but I don't remember them not being available at all. In fact, I remember a section on Apple's website specifically for web apps.
Apple couldn't care less about games. They never have.
They did at one point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tzrme9yWens
The rise of gaming on iOS also brought back a lot of interest in Mac gaming as EA's presence in 2007 showed:
http://www.kewego.com/video/iLyROoaftb-K.html
Then there was the Steam client for Mac in 2010.
And we have the cloud/streaming games, which are ideal for the TV as you only need a very small app and you can get the highest-end games without downloading.
As for the controls, it can be done fairly easily without buttons. I reckon it can be done with a 3-pad remote - the splits are largely technically superficial but are important:
It would have a gyroscope and accelerometer and the 3 pads would simply be areas to touch for control. So in an FPS game, you hold it horizontally and the left pad is directional, the right is your camera view. You can possibly tap on the back to fire so you can aim and shoot. The centre pad is for changing weapons by swiping left/right/up/down and for menus (two fingers).
An xbox 360 controller has 2 analog sticks, 2 analog buttons and 14 digital buttons. The 3-pad covers the analog sticks + 2 taps on the back (left/right or even the sides of the remote) + 1 tap on the right + 6 buttons in the middle + accelerometer/gyro for 2 analog buttons. So only say 5 digital buttons short but you can cover these functions easily e.g crouch is two finger swipe down on the right, prone is 3 finger swipe down, Flashlight is two-finger twist. Assuming the Wii-like movement too, you get all of the right pad free.
I really styled it like that as a way to input text easily but I'm not so sure it would be practical. Each pad would be mapped to a grid of 9 characters = 27 characters shown on screen and you simply swipe the direction for each letter and swipe the grid type for punctuation and numbers. Two finger swipe up for caps.
The biggest problem with it would be cost and making it immediately intuitive but the advantage with a blank slate is the user makes it as simple or as complex as it needs to be - like the Magic Mouse.
As a major user of AppleTV (It's the only thing I have connected to my TV at all), I can say that simply having a field of apps to click instead of the tedious "menu within menu" aspect of the current UI would be a huge improvement.
I'm not a huge fan of the menu UI but I think any UI will still require a lot of clicks with a basic remote depending on how they arrange the options. If each icon was a direct option, it would be much quicker but you'd need a way to arrange the icons easily. They could allow this to be done on a computer but it would be better done on the device.
Are you sure about that?
I am. I have wretched memory overall, but I do remember that. If you like, I can reinstall iPhone OS 1.0 on my first-gen iPhone and make sure.
They did at one point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tzrme9yWens
That's more Bungie caring.
And if Apple really cared, they would have FOUGHT to keep them away from Microsoft.
Can you imagine Halo having been exclusively on the Mac? But where are we now? There's not even a version of Halo 2 for the Mac that doesn't run outside of Cider.
And by "run" I mean to say that this is as far as I've gotten:
I am. I have wretched memory overall, but I do remember that. If you like, I can reinstall iPhone OS 1.0 on my first-gen iPhone and make sure.
You are correct in that Apple added web clips 3 mod. after launch: http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/13/2...ipad#section_1
I still think that with such a small window of time, Apple was already thinking ahead for that purpose AND native apps. BTW, I don't believe Apple created the app store due to jailbreakers. I think Apple had it in mind but was still ironing out the kinks on how to implement it well.
That you're completely wrong, yeah.
Of course I am. I'm not part of the click here so I will always be wrong and you will always be right.
BTW, if that a proper expression anymore, part of the click? We don't click anymore. We tap. So I"m not part of the tap. And I'll bet I'm not allowed to drink from the tap either.
As far as what I said about the Mac, it's so painfully obvious I won't waste my time debating it with you. If you don't see it or don't believe it, that's your right. I'll give you your opinion, even though you won't give me mine. Fair enough?
I'll really make your day and leave now. Happy New Year to you and all your rude friends in the tap.
Of course I am. I'm not part of the click here so I will always be wrong and you will always be right.
Not the case in the slightest. Don't act like that. You happen to be completely wrong in this instance. It's laughable to think what you've said is the truth.
BTW, if that a proper expression anymore, part of the click? We don't click anymore.
That's because it's 'clique'.
As far as what I said about the Mac, it's so painfully obvious I won't waste my time debating it with you.
So? you want to be a troll, then? You have zero proof for your outlandish claims, history shows the complete opposite of what you're saying, and future trends don't lead to what you're claiming.
Thanks for giving up, though, instead of providing the proof that doesn't exist.
Just like the? I'm trying to think of a system in the "battle for the living room" that does both video content and gaming. And I can't. Because there isn't one.
You can't get games on your DVR and you can't view broadcast content on your Wii/PS3/360.
Official sony digital tv tuner / DVR for your PS3.... http://uk.playstation.com/playtv/
I think you are forgetting that for twelve months after the iPhone was released the only way to run native apps was to jailbreak the phone. Steve Jobs was initially in favor of web apps. It was jail breaking and home brew apps that really demonstrated the demand for native apps.
Apple announced an iPhone SDK was in development to develop native apps less than four months after the iPhone was released. Steve Jobs was initially resistant to the idea of third-party apps, but pressure from within Apple and third parties convinced him otherwise. And let's be honest, at the time the third-party apps available on smart phones were absolutely terrible and overpriced (how many Nibbles clones did we need?) I have seen better software on a TI graphing calculator.
And because of this Apple is losing the battle for the living room. The AppleTV needs a system selling feature such as gaming or it will remain a hobby.
Gaming is not what is holding the AppleTV back. It is the fact that streaming services like Netflix are a superior offering to consumers. I want to see something that gives both cable AND Netflix a run for their money.
Really, guys? Do you really need to wish general ill on people that have done nothing to you? I think it says more about who you really are than the people that you hate.
Jeff: Why didn't you quote ConradJoe's entire post?
Notice the /s at the end???
Some, maybe even ALL of us, think that is a sign for SARCASM!!!
CJ: Care to weigh in on this? Maybe you have but I haven't read to the end of the 70 or so posts.
Now, the second guy should also have noticed the /s and realized it was sarcasm, but still he didn't need wish the ill will.
Jeff: Why didn't you quote ConradJoe's entire post?
Notice the /s at the end???
Except it wasn't there when he posted it. He added it after the fact to prevent himself being banned.
Really, guys? Do you really need to wish general ill on people that have done nothing to you? I think it says more about who you really are than the people that you hate.
Except it wasn't there when he posted it. He added it after the fact to prevent himself being banned.
It doesn't show it as being edited, or does this site not show that?
If he added it later, he's an a**. Actually, anyone who attacks another on any site like this is an a**.
When the 1st iPhone and iPod touch were released then Jailbreaked, we saw a flood of really excellent 3rd party software for those devices.
The Apple TV has been Jailbreaked for awhile, but where are the apps? Until real app developers figure out what if anything should run on Apple TV these kinds of cracks are pointless. And if developers do figure it out, you can be sure Apple will be there to capitalize on it.
It doesn't show it as being edited, or does this site not show that?
Huh?
Does this not show up for you?
...anyone who attacks another on any site like this is an a**.
So how can anybody claim that irony is dead?
I added the /s to make things clear for anybody who might have otherwise been confused.
And here's the real truth: Everything I say is a lie.
Are you certain Android-compatible devices can't display an onscreen icon for webapps? If you add a GMail launch icon for instance, isn't it really just a launcher for a webapp? Or are you talking about something totally different?
EDIT: I'm not going to pretend to know much about developing for Android. FWIW there's several Google tutorials that have to do with adding web-apps to an Android-compatible device.
http://developer.android.com/guide/w...practices.html
Android devices can display onscreen icons for webapps. What iOS can do, that Android cannot, is launch a webapp as its own process. Android, to the best of my research, cannot do that.
When you save a webapp bookmark to your homescreen and launch it from there, it appears as its own process in the program switcher, distinct from Safari. (The developer can even include iOS-specific HTML extensions to help the device find a custom app icon, startup image, etc.) The point is, iOS treats that bookmark as its own app if it's coded properly as a webapp.
When a user on Android launches a webapp from the homescreen, it simply opens the browser and runs there as a web page, like a desktop URL shortcut. It's a subtle difference for the end user but a major difference for developers.
Since the ability to use different home screens was available before you could save web apps TO the Springboard, I do argue this.
You'll have to elaborate. I don't see how the presence of multiple homescreens (hidden feature or otherwise) was evidence that Apple favored native apps over Webapps, especially when you consider how elaborate and well-developed iOS's support for running Webapps was from day one. The infrastructure for treating Webapps as first-class citizens on the iPhone was there from the start. The system is designed to launch Webapps as their own process and treat them as their own app, not connected to Safari. I run my own Webapp that way daily. It's beautiful and sad that it has been so underutilized by developers.
Anyway, I see far more support for the idea that Apple intended Webapps to be the future for iOS, not native apps. I think you're reading way too much into a minor detail.
I could think of a few that I would like as widgets. Of course Lion screwed up the widgets since they go to a new screen instead of overlaying the desktop. I used to use the calculator to add up numbers in an email or web page but now you can't do that any more, at least as far as I know, since the list of numbers is not visible after invoking the widgets. One app in particular that would be helpful is iConvert which I use all the time on my iPhone but it would be quite convenient on the Mac as well. Until I can figure out how to have widgets overlay the desktop in Lion, it is a non issue. Fortunately I'm still on SL for my workstation at the office, using Lion only on my MBP.
Don't know if this has been answered (haven't read every post)- but if you go to settings and uncheck the box of dashboard being it's own space, it'll be like it was.