Theory: Apple has the luxury of patience these days. All the iOS profit allows them to lose some market share in the big iron desktop arena because it isn't critical to their survival like it once was.
No. They don't have that luxury. Money is meaningless when you've permanently lost your developers and pro users.
In 2007 I needed a new computer and intended to switch from an older XP to OS X. I didn't have any friends who used an Apple computer nor were there any Apple stores in my state. My place to learn about the computers was the internet and the forums dedicated to Apple computers. I wanted a Mini because it suited my needs.
For many months all of the Mini forum people were expecting an update. None came. by late 2008 my XP machine had a failure and it needed to be replaced, yet the new Mini wasn't out. I ended up buying a 2008 Mac Book with slightly better specs than the top of the line Mini.
My point is that Apple sometimes takes way too long to update things. I wanted a Mini and couldn't get one because there was no way I was going to purchase two year old technology for a premium price (sound familiar). Apple did eventually refresh the Mini that year. Almost everybody complained about what a poor update it was. Then in two years it was redesigned. Maybe Apple will redesign the Mac Pro in two years.
Folks there are faster more up to date machines out there. You just have to be willing to leave Apple. Apple is a corporation. It is not your brother or a family member that requires you to stick around. Apple will not feel abandoned if you leave. They won't even know you left. Change in life is hard sometimes but changing computer companies shouldn't be such a big deal. You don't owe loyalty to an entity that isn't alive.
Yes Windows sucks but you really aren't using Windows programs for your specialized needs. Windows is just the place your programs operate. Microsoft doesn't make computers. At least that is a consolation. I hate Microsoft for creating Vista. I don't ever want to spend money on one of their products. I'll use Linux with an older version of Windows in a dual boot or in a virtual machine. My new job involves creating videos but nothing on par with movie making. I can get by with Linux and Kden Live. I'm almost positive that my next machine won't be an Apple unless they make a mini-tower or a super powerful Mac Mini in the next year.
No. They don't have that luxury. Money is meaningless when you've permanently lost your developers and pro users.
Dear Tallest Skill, I think you are overly negative here. Although I would have appreciated a Mac Pro update beyond a small speed bump and price cut, I am not going to think apple might abandon the Pro's for a second (I need to update myself). Look at what they have done to the portable line! There you will find actually that they have abandoned the entry level models. And the retina MacBook Pro is really a neat machine.
My belive is, that apple was forced to put the new Mac Pro on hold, either because Intel wasn't ready to deliver the new chips in time, or that apple is still not satisfied with the new design.
After beeing an apple user for such a long time you ought to know this.
So keep cool and see what the future brings. Once it is out, I am expecting apples new Mac Pro will just blow our minds, like the new MacBook Pro did.
$@#% #@$! @#$% and #@$% with @#$# on the @#$% mother board. Therefor I think the new #@$%en MacPro is #@$%ing wrong in its minimal upgrade as it @#%$ing sits.
As a pricing illustration, I bought a quad 3.2/1TB/3GB Mac Pro two months ago for $2928. Today (with 6GB) that costs $2499. Oh, and before 27 geniuses on AI post about how stupid I must be feeling—wrong. I bought a new Mac Pro workstation for a new employee exactly when we needed it.
Bottom line is it's a slight speed bump and moderate price reduction, but tells us nothing about the future of the Mac Pro line.
Excellent decision; you bought what you needed at the time. Tech will always advance, always get cheaper, or better put, get more bang for your buck. And that is what has happened with this update. You now can get a 6 core 3.33 for 3k.
I also don't use Thunderbolt. who does at this point?
graphics cards I always replace, anyway, and it sounds like there are ones out there.
at the least, this will be supported by the OS for a while, so perhaps there is a sliver of hope. they could have end-of-lifed it more easily than to have done this.
we shall see. at least you can still buy a new Mac that you can slap a Kona or other PCIe card into. that counts for something.
Indeed, what are people planning to use that TB for in a MP? One poster wants it for music. 'kay, but can't that be done with an internal card?
They are. Sandy Bridge Xeon E5 came out in March. That's what's next for the Mac Pro. Ivy Bridge Xeons come out late next year, and they incorporate USB 3 on the chipset (don't expect Apple to that before then).
I feel like it is far more embarrassing and a discredit to the product line to have done this "update" than to have just outright discontinued.
But if they didn't make this minor upgrade 'everyone will have jumped ship as Apple lost interest in the MP' or so people write…
I think it's better that they released a bumped up version just to let everyone know they haven't lost interest.
(*) from Wiki: "Apple, Inc. announced laptops with USB 3.0 ports on June 11, 2012, nearly four years after USB 3.0 was finalized. Because Apple computers use only Intel processors and "bridge" chipsets, Intel's lack of integrated support for USB 3.0 may have proved to be a primary reason why the company didn't add support sooner."
Oh the pain of it all. Been waiting for a new Mac Pro with NEW technology for over a year now. We ALL cried for an update and look at what they gave us.
Now I'll have to look elsewhere for my PRO hardware as I'm not going to buy ancient tech and their new "consumer" BS won't work for me :-(
Is USB 3 or TB even compatible with Nehalem and Westmere?
I'm pretty sure USB 3 can be done with an added third party host chip. I thought it was the same way with TB. I can understand Apple not using them in their other machines, for space and possibly thermal reasons, but on a Mac Pro, I don't think those reasons are a problem.
People are appleblind me thinks! how does bringing out a middle of the road (albiet excellent but unsupported display) Macbkpro with only a 650 nvidea card rate as a pro machine, same mentality goes for the new pro, they will be dropping the pro monica one day I'm sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
No. They don't have that luxury. Money is meaningless when you've permanently lost your developers and pro users.
Apple have become too big for their boots, the pro market expects innovation to stay ahead of the competition, she should be pandering to our big bucks and specialised market leading productivity skills, but once the trust has gone... the relationship ends.
ah! but wait and see....! such is a volatile market that waxes and wanes, in the meantime new PC companies are emerging with youthful competitive vigour in mind, Apple has wasted its hunny-moon time on sweets for the masses and petty public bickering with neighbours when it could so easily have afforded real top end forward looking innovation and stole the limelight, another missed oppertunity, another lost soul overboard.
There is one possibility of repreive... like they did with FCP, get back into the developement room and burn the midnight oil to come up with a corker of a new pro monicurred product to satisfy the mass semi pro market, renderrers can still have their twin tractorred earth mover aswell.
Wheres the new sleek enovation MacProX workstation ?... The missing link. not even any Chinese whispers.
At least the completely wrong part of the article was updated...but still a lousy article, no mention that it's the exact same machine as the 2010 version (and 2009 for that matter), with no TB, no USB3 and no SATA III.
Retina iMac late 2012/ 2013 will be the pro Mac desktop. Apple is streamlining to MacBook Air, Retina MBP and Retina iMac. All other lines are perhaps considered "legacy" by Apple and will be maintained for a few years but don't expect major kickassery in the previous-gen Macs. No offense to pros, I know the Mac Pro has seen you through good and bad times for years.
But we all know Apple has a more specific (or more general, depending on how one sees it) "pro" market in mind.
Do yourself a favor and get a fast SSD from OWC (don't buy the 6G model as the Mac Pro can only do 3G. Put your apps and OS on the SSD, that will speed things up. Partition the SSD and leave enough working space for your current project files and loading those multiple GB files will go many times faster.
Get two SSDs and set them up in a RAID 0 array. That will exceed 3G speeds. The 6G models are still faster even if you're attaching them to SATA 2, it's not like they're always operating at a full 6G. Just get a couple of Sandforce SF-2281 SSDs, RAID them, and stand back. The speed will blow you away.
No need to freak over this update, since it's not really an update. All Apple did is fill the CPU bins at the factory with slightly faster CPUs of the same model. The change didn't even require a firmware update: you can drop any of the processors offered in the "update" into a Westemere Mac Pro and have exactly the same computer as the "new" ones. Actually, you can do the same with a Nehalem Mac Pro as long as you flash it with macpro5,1 firmware.
I suspect Apple did this "update" to signal that the Mac Pro isn't EOL, but it misfired because it was such a lame update. My guess? The iMac and Mac Pro are on ice until the economy thaws.
And for all the bleating on here about TB and USB 3.0...seriously?
USB 3.0: Buy a PCI card! It's a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a new Mac Pro just for a USB 3 port.
Thunderbolt? On a Pro machine? If you want to add an external RAID to a Mac Pro, an SAS RAID PCI card will be faster than any existing Thunderbolt option. The only reason it could be needed on a Mac Pro would be for use with an Apple Display, but if you're a pro, you probably want something better anyways.
Video card? Apple already added support to Lion for all Nvidia cards. Just drop one in and rock out. The boot screen won't work, but that's not such a big deal.
If the current Mac Pro isn't fast enough for you, then jump to Windows. Seriously, do it. You'll find that you're work isn't any faster or better, because Windows workstations are limited by the same Xeon availability as the Mac Pro. Then when the Mac Pro replacement is announced, you'll be ready to blow another $8000 on a Mac Pro rig to replace your Windows turdstation.
I suspect Apple did this "update" to signal that the Mac Pro isn't EOL, but it misfired because it was such a lame update. My guess? The iMac and Mac Pro are on ice until the economy thaws.
Nothing Apple does has anything to do with the economy.
And for all the bleating on here about TB and USB 3.0...seriously?
USB 3.0: Buy a PCI card! It's a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a new Mac Pro just for a USB 3 port.
Thunderbolt? On a Pro machine? If you want to add an external RAID to a Mac Pro, an SAS RAID PCI card will be faster than any existing Thunderbolt option. The only reason it could be needed on a Mac Pro would be for use with an Apple Display, but if you're a pro, you probably want something better anyways.
Video card? Apple already added support to Lion for all Nvidia cards. Just drop one in and rock out. The boot screen won't work, but that's not such a big deal.
If the current Mac Pro isn't fast enough for you, then jump to Windows. Seriously, do it. You'll find that you're work isn't any faster or better, because Windows workstations are limited by the same Xeon availability as the Mac Pro. Then when the Mac Pro replacement is announced, you'll be ready to blow another $8000 on a Mac Pro rig to replace your Windows turdstation.
Sorry, you're working way too hard to polish a turd of an update. If one buys a brand-new, newly updated machine, it stands to reason that it should have the latest architectural updates.
One shouldn't need to use a precious slot for connections that should be built-in by now. Nobody is going to replace a machine for USB jacks, but it's something that has no excuse for being missing on a freshly-rev'ed high end machine.
Also, there is a lot more to Thunderbolt than RAID, take a look at AJA or Blackmagic designs for some of those products. Extra ports on the desktop can be very useful. Not all pros need special cinema grade displays, I think the Thunderbolt display serves most pros pretty well.
The boot screen is pretty important, that's how you do diagnostics and multiboot. I wonder if you're just being a poe here. Why Apple couldn't offer an updated board in the package is quite baffling in light of this alleged support.
It's not helpful to suggest they buy a Windows machine, that's not the point here anyway.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDog
Theory: Apple has the luxury of patience these days. All the iOS profit allows them to lose some market share in the big iron desktop arena because it isn't critical to their survival like it once was.
No. They don't have that luxury. Money is meaningless when you've permanently lost your developers and pro users.
In 2007 I needed a new computer and intended to switch from an older XP to OS X. I didn't have any friends who used an Apple computer nor were there any Apple stores in my state. My place to learn about the computers was the internet and the forums dedicated to Apple computers. I wanted a Mini because it suited my needs.
For many months all of the Mini forum people were expecting an update. None came. by late 2008 my XP machine had a failure and it needed to be replaced, yet the new Mini wasn't out. I ended up buying a 2008 Mac Book with slightly better specs than the top of the line Mini.
My point is that Apple sometimes takes way too long to update things. I wanted a Mini and couldn't get one because there was no way I was going to purchase two year old technology for a premium price (sound familiar). Apple did eventually refresh the Mini that year. Almost everybody complained about what a poor update it was. Then in two years it was redesigned. Maybe Apple will redesign the Mac Pro in two years.
Folks there are faster more up to date machines out there. You just have to be willing to leave Apple. Apple is a corporation. It is not your brother or a family member that requires you to stick around. Apple will not feel abandoned if you leave. They won't even know you left. Change in life is hard sometimes but changing computer companies shouldn't be such a big deal. You don't owe loyalty to an entity that isn't alive.
Yes Windows sucks but you really aren't using Windows programs for your specialized needs. Windows is just the place your programs operate. Microsoft doesn't make computers. At least that is a consolation. I hate Microsoft for creating Vista. I don't ever want to spend money on one of their products. I'll use Linux with an older version of Windows in a dual boot or in a virtual machine. My new job involves creating videos but nothing on par with movie making. I can get by with Linux and Kden Live. I'm almost positive that my next machine won't be an Apple unless they make a mini-tower or a super powerful Mac Mini in the next year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
No. They don't have that luxury. Money is meaningless when you've permanently lost your developers and pro users.
Why would it be permanent?
Dear Tallest Skill, I think you are overly negative here. Although I would have appreciated a Mac Pro update beyond a small speed bump and price cut, I am not going to think apple might abandon the Pro's for a second (I need to update myself). Look at what they have done to the portable line! There you will find actually that they have abandoned the entry level models. And the retina MacBook Pro is really a neat machine.
My belive is, that apple was forced to put the new Mac Pro on hold, either because Intel wasn't ready to deliver the new chips in time, or that apple is still not satisfied with the new design.
After beeing an apple user for such a long time you ought to know this.
So keep cool and see what the future brings. Once it is out, I am expecting apples new Mac Pro will just blow our minds, like the new MacBook Pro did.
$@#% #@$! @#$% and #@$% with @#$# on the @#$% mother board. Therefor I think the new #@$%en MacPro is #@$%ing wrong in its minimal upgrade as it @#%$ing sits.
WOW!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moe Luby
Well you must feel pretty stupid Neil. 26 to go
Yes, he would feel much better now if his new employee had been sitting around for 2 month doing nothing.
26 others with jello instead of a brain?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel
E5645 Westmere
W3565 Bloomfield
So we got rid of the Nehalem based low end processor and kept processors from the Westmere and Bloomfield lines.
E5645 = Gulftown = Westmere 32nm
W3565 = Bloomfield = Nehalem 45nm
No we didn't get rid of Nehalem from 2009.
Excellent decision; you bought what you needed at the time. Tech will always advance, always get cheaper, or better put, get more bang for your buck. And that is what has happened with this update. You now can get a 6 core 3.33 for 3k.
You don't want a(n Apple) RAID card. Trust me, you don't. Read the support pages, nothing but trouble.
Indeed, what are people planning to use that TB for in a MP? One poster wants it for music. 'kay, but can't that be done with an internal card?
But if they didn't make this minor upgrade 'everyone will have jumped ship as Apple lost interest in the MP' or so people write…
I think it's better that they released a bumped up version just to let everyone know they haven't lost interest.
(*) from Wiki: "Apple, Inc. announced laptops with USB 3.0 ports on June 11, 2012, nearly four years after USB 3.0 was finalized. Because Apple computers use only Intel processors and "bridge" chipsets, Intel's lack of integrated support for USB 3.0 may have proved to be a primary reason why the company didn't add support sooner."
Get a MP. A PowerMini is simply not in the cards, if history tells us anything
Oh the pain of it all. Been waiting for a new Mac Pro with NEW technology for over a year now. We ALL cried for an update and look at what they gave us.
Now I'll have to look elsewhere for my PRO hardware as I'm not going to buy ancient tech and their new "consumer" BS won't work for me :-(
The Mac Pro is dead -- long live the Mac Pro.
BTW -- how many of you have left a message on Apple's Product feedback about your disappointment?
I'm pretty sure USB 3 can be done with an added third party host chip. I thought it was the same way with TB. I can understand Apple not using them in their other machines, for space and possibly thermal reasons, but on a Mac Pro, I don't think those reasons are a problem.
People are appleblind me thinks! how does bringing out a middle of the road (albiet excellent but unsupported display) Macbkpro with only a 650 nvidea card rate as a pro machine, same mentality goes for the new pro, they will be dropping the pro monica one day I'm sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
No. They don't have that luxury. Money is meaningless when you've permanently lost your developers and pro users.
Apple have become too big for their boots, the pro market expects innovation to stay ahead of the competition, she should be pandering to our big bucks and specialised market leading productivity skills, but once the trust has gone... the relationship ends.
ah! but wait and see....! such is a volatile market that waxes and wanes, in the meantime new PC companies are emerging with youthful competitive vigour in mind, Apple has wasted its hunny-moon time on sweets for the masses and petty public bickering with neighbours when it could so easily have afforded real top end forward looking innovation and stole the limelight, another missed oppertunity, another lost soul overboard.
There is one possibility of repreive... like they did with FCP, get back into the developement room and burn the midnight oil to come up with a corker of a new pro monicurred product to satisfy the mass semi pro market, renderrers can still have their twin tractorred earth mover aswell.
Wheres the new sleek enovation MacProX workstation ?... The missing link. not even any Chinese whispers.
At least the completely wrong part of the article was updated...but still a lousy article, no mention that it's the exact same machine as the 2010 version (and 2009 for that matter), with no TB, no USB3 and no SATA III.
You know...
...I'm surprised how 'calmly' Dave took it.
Lemon Bon Bon.
PS. As for the desktops. A 'cosmic joke.'
Retina iMac late 2012/ 2013 will be the pro Mac desktop. Apple is streamlining to MacBook Air, Retina MBP and Retina iMac. All other lines are perhaps considered "legacy" by Apple and will be maintained for a few years but don't expect major kickassery in the previous-gen Macs. No offense to pros, I know the Mac Pro has seen you through good and bad times for years.
But we all know Apple has a more specific (or more general, depending on how one sees it) "pro" market in mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon.
You know...
...I'm surprised how 'calmly' Dave took it.
Lemon Bon Bon.
PS. As for the desktops. A 'cosmic joke.'
The writing is on the wall. MacBook Air, Retina MacBook Pro and Retina iMac. As for any other Mac, its time has come. For better or worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBrickley
Do yourself a favor and get a fast SSD from OWC (don't buy the 6G model as the Mac Pro can only do 3G. Put your apps and OS on the SSD, that will speed things up. Partition the SSD and leave enough working space for your current project files and loading those multiple GB files will go many times faster.
Get two SSDs and set them up in a RAID 0 array. That will exceed 3G speeds. The 6G models are still faster even if you're attaching them to SATA 2, it's not like they're always operating at a full 6G. Just get a couple of Sandforce SF-2281 SSDs, RAID them, and stand back. The speed will blow you away.
No need to freak over this update, since it's not really an update. All Apple did is fill the CPU bins at the factory with slightly faster CPUs of the same model. The change didn't even require a firmware update: you can drop any of the processors offered in the "update" into a Westemere Mac Pro and have exactly the same computer as the "new" ones. Actually, you can do the same with a Nehalem Mac Pro as long as you flash it with macpro5,1 firmware.
I suspect Apple did this "update" to signal that the Mac Pro isn't EOL, but it misfired because it was such a lame update. My guess? The iMac and Mac Pro are on ice until the economy thaws.
And for all the bleating on here about TB and USB 3.0...seriously?
USB 3.0: Buy a PCI card! It's a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a new Mac Pro just for a USB 3 port.
Thunderbolt? On a Pro machine? If you want to add an external RAID to a Mac Pro, an SAS RAID PCI card will be faster than any existing Thunderbolt option. The only reason it could be needed on a Mac Pro would be for use with an Apple Display, but if you're a pro, you probably want something better anyways.
Video card? Apple already added support to Lion for all Nvidia cards. Just drop one in and rock out. The boot screen won't work, but that's not such a big deal.
If the current Mac Pro isn't fast enough for you, then jump to Windows. Seriously, do it. You'll find that you're work isn't any faster or better, because Windows workstations are limited by the same Xeon availability as the Mac Pro. Then when the Mac Pro replacement is announced, you'll be ready to blow another $8000 on a Mac Pro rig to replace your Windows turdstation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg
I suspect Apple did this "update" to signal that the Mac Pro isn't EOL, but it misfired because it was such a lame update. My guess? The iMac and Mac Pro are on ice until the economy thaws.
Nothing Apple does has anything to do with the economy.
Sorry, you're working way too hard to polish a turd of an update. If one buys a brand-new, newly updated machine, it stands to reason that it should have the latest architectural updates.
One shouldn't need to use a precious slot for connections that should be built-in by now. Nobody is going to replace a machine for USB jacks, but it's something that has no excuse for being missing on a freshly-rev'ed high end machine.
Also, there is a lot more to Thunderbolt than RAID, take a look at AJA or Blackmagic designs for some of those products. Extra ports on the desktop can be very useful. Not all pros need special cinema grade displays, I think the Thunderbolt display serves most pros pretty well.
The boot screen is pretty important, that's how you do diagnostics and multiboot. I wonder if you're just being a poe here. Why Apple couldn't offer an updated board in the package is quite baffling in light of this alleged support.
It's not helpful to suggest they buy a Windows machine, that's not the point here anyway.