So by Christmas we will have three good regular tablets (the iPad, the Surface, and the new GooglePad) and one "Pro" tablet (the Surface).
This is a gadget-lover's dream!
What makes you so sure that either the Surface or GooglePad is going to be any good? Microsoft has had major problems with their one major hardware line (xBox), although they eventually sorted them out. Google has shown a massive inability to create a compelling OS, although Motorola can certainly handle the hardware part.
In the process they will be canibalizing sales of their hardware partners. It is everyone for themselves at this point. If you don't own an OS, you are screwed. Google has really done a 180 since their "do no evil" days.
I think Microsoft missed the boat. If the major OEMs have to compete with their licensor, they might as well use the proven Android. If Microsoft had continued their licensing model, they would presumably have had dozens of hardware manufacturers using Windows RT - to avoid competing with their licensor.
every OEM in the world can read the handwriting on the wall today: see ya later, dudes!
within two years Google will stop pretending and push Motorola tablets only. ditto MS with its own Windows brand. any OEM without its own in-house OS will be out of the tablet game, permanently. only Samsung has already figured this out. HP totally missed it and threw WebOS away. Nokia sold its soul to MS and threw MeeGo away. Sony has never had a clue anyway. and Asus, HTC, et al. are just drifting, looking for a miracle.
the smart guy is the one that scoops up RIM cheap, just to get QNX.
Don't forget WebOS. That was actually a pretty decent OS that didn't need all that much work to make it usable. I suspect HP would sell it cheap.
Dear friends in the Apple community - THIS IS ABOUT CHOICE!
I have been an Apple enthusiast for decades, learned to program on a IIe and have used Macs since 1984.
I have been trying to get a poll of those who would like to save various features in Mobile Me that will be lost very soon. Yesterday in the first 15 minutes after I commented in an AI forum, 42 AI users viewed my page and (statistically) about 15 voted. Pretty good show of interest think. (A typical post is below)
Unfortunately, AI some how was threatened by this and denied YOU the reader the opportunity to decide for yourself by repeatedly censoring my post so no one else could see it. In spite of censoring, 117 AI users have visited my POLL in the last week.
This is not self promotion. I get nothing from this. In fact I have spent many hours trying to do this for the Apple community. Therefore it is a bitter surprise that I get treated in this way.
9to5mac, MacDailyNews, Seeking Alpha, NY Times, Motley Fool, have all allowed my posts. I have asked them all to feature my little poll. none have, but at least these have not censored me. I try to be a "good citizen" and not post more than once (occasionally 2x) in a given day in any blog. That is - I try not to be a spammer. But this is the only way I know of to get this out.
PLEASE - email AI and ask them to run a feature on my little poll so that more people in the Apple community will have the choice to participate if they see fit. Let the individuals decide for themselves.
Many Thanks! - jmmx
=========== post
My apologies for being off topic in this, but time is running out and I know more people are interested in this as several hundred have visited and a good proportion have voted. So please bear with me as I believe this is of interest to many in the Apple community.
Thank you for your patience.
Unfortunately, when MobileMe gets shuttered in 2 weeks some basic functionality will be lost. However, there is a movement to save some of the soon-to-be-lost features. Check out this link. Just vote in the poll to register your vote.
every OEM in the world can read the handwriting on the wall today: see ya later, dudes!
within two years Google will stop pretending and push Motorola tablets only. ditto MS with its own Windows brand. any OEM without its own in-house OS will be out of the tablet game, permanently. only Samsung has already figured this out. HP totally missed it and threw WebOS away. Nokia sold its soul to MS and threw MeeGo away. Sony has never had a clue anyway. and Asus, HTC, et al. are just drifting, looking for a miracle.
the smart guy is the one that scoops up RIM cheap, just to get QNX.
why buy rim when android is free. anyone can fork it.
What makes you so sure that either the Surface or GooglePad is going to be any good? Microsoft has had major problems with their one major hardware line (xBox), although they eventually sorted them out. Google has shown a massive inability to create a compelling OS, although Motorola can certainly handle the hardware part.
I think Microsoft missed the boat. If the major OEMs have to compete with their licensor, they might as well use the proven Android. If Microsoft had continued their licensing model, they would presumably have had dozens of hardware manufacturers using Windows RT - to avoid competing with their licensor.
But they saw the Android tablet landscape and couldn't be convinced that leaving the hardware to the Asian vendors would turn the tide against Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Don't forget WebOS. That was actually a pretty decent OS that didn't need all that much work to make it usable. I suspect HP would sell it cheap.
I thought they were opensourcing WebOS? I do agree it is pretty slick.
Does it make any sense to point out that Google's OS, despite not being "compelling", outsells iOS more than 2:1 in the phone market?
It makes sense to point it out. It also makes sense to wonder how many Android owners are buying their devices because of Android. And which version of Android compelled their purchasing decision?
every OEM in the world can read the handwriting on the wall today: see ya later, dudes!
within two years Google will stop pretending and push Motorola tablets only. ditto MS with its own Windows brand. any OEM without its own in-house OS will be out of the tablet game, permanently. only Samsung has already figured this out. HP totally missed it and threw WebOS away. Nokia sold its soul to MS and threw MeeGo away. Sony has never had a clue anyway. and Asus, HTC, et al. are just drifting, looking for a miracle.
the smart guy is the one that scoops up RIM cheap, just to get QNX.
Not my take. Google just needs successful a model or two to demonstrate the viability of an Android Tablet and boost the market. They're not after making the whole Android pie. There business model is not hardware development but maximising android adoption as part of their advertising/data harvesting gig.
WebOS is a decent OS, it was too late to the party to take off - lack of Apps. Same with RIM, although imo their OS wasn't as decent as Palm's. I don't think it will take off if bought out. HP couldn't sell WebOS any better than Palm did. Time dragged on and iOS and Android became established with the App Support to make them attractive.
In the process they will be canibalizing sales of their hardware partners. It is everyone for themselves at this point. If you don't own an OS, you are screwed. Google has really done a 180 since their "do no evil" days.
Same way that the Galaxy Nexus Canibalizes all the OEMs hardware. You don't know anything about android do you?
MS and Apple are the only two companies able to make crossover tablets and Apple doesn't want to.
MS can price their Surface Pro tablet comparable to the iPad and have sales if the product is otherwise comparable...because while Apple has a huge lead in the iOS ecosystem MS has app compatibility with legacy x86 apps.
How many times do you hear "I could give up windows except I need to run program X"? Apple solves this issue with Bootcamp, Parallels and VmWare on the MBA.
MS is solving this issue with the Surface Pro and legacy mode. Once into the Win8 app ecosystem you're more inclined to buy a comparable ARM based Surface than an iPad if everything else (build quality, availability to key apps, etc) are more or less equal. What will be interesting is if you buy a Metro app for x86 do you also get the ARM version if it exists and vice versa...I would hope yes.
MS' strategy can work, it just has to not suck in execution. That jury is still out. It could be Vista, it could be Win7.
I also think that many MS partners wont care much about Surface if MS keeps the price comparable to the iPad 2. Yes, it's competition but likely at a higher price point that they were figuring on being able to compete with the iPad anyway. The only partner I can think of that it really screws is Sony and their VAIO line. Asus, Acer, et al can bring Win8 Pro and RT tablets at their traditional price points in competition with cheap Android tablets.
Let MS bleed subsidizing a premium product to compete against the iPad head to head. Nobody can afford to risk the volume of devices to achieve the same economies of scale that Apple can with the iPad. Not even Samsung. The risk of ending up with several million tablets in a warehouse is just too high.
Nobody can sell a premium product for more than $50-100 less than Apple if at all. If MS sells a $500 tablet at $400 to match the iPad 2 price that leaves the other partners to sell low margin but at least positive margin Win8 tablets in the $250-$300 range against $150-$200 Android tablets being sold as loss leaders by Amazon.
Given Amazon's business model cratering the perceived value of Android tablets and the price point of Google's tablet that market is just a tough one to do anything useful with. As long as MS doesn't follow suit...and given the apparent build quality of the Surface they aren't. They are building a premium reference platform to go head to head against the iPad probably by bleeding a huge subsidy for the "flagship" win8 products but still maintaining head room for partners to make money.
That strikes me as smart. Smart enough? It'll take time to tell.
Does it make any sense to point out that Google's OS, despite not being "compelling", outsells iOS more than 2:1 in the phone market?
That doesn't mean it's compelling. That is, unless you have some evidence that people are buying Android phones because of compelling features in the OS.
every OEM in the world can read the handwriting on the wall today: see ya later, dudes!
within two years Google will stop pretending and push Motorola tablets only. ditto MS with its own Windows brand. any OEM without its own in-house OS will be out of the tablet game, permanently. only Samsung has already figured this out. HP totally missed it and threw WebOS away. Nokia sold its soul to MS and threw MeeGo away. Sony has never had a clue anyway. and Asus, HTC, et al. are just drifting, looking for a miracle.
the smart guy is the one that scoops up RIM cheap, just to get QNX.
Interesting take. And I'd be inclined to agree. Great points!
Does it make any sense to point out that Google's OS, despite not being "compelling", outsells iOS more than 2:1 in the phone market?
The keyword being "sells". On average what do you think people pay for Android device. Between 1000's of 99cent offers, the buy 1 get 1 free and the straight out free-with-contract offers.. its no wonder why Android gained so quickly in popularity. Show me a single model of Android phone that sells anywhere close to single model of iPhone.. and then we could talk. Hell when you are practically giving phones away for free.. its easy to gain marketshare.
Heavily discounted sales is the reason why Android succeeds in the phone market. And why it fails in the tablet market. Without the 99cent tablets, the buy1get1 free tablets or free subsidized tablets.. they cannot compete. Not many people are willing to pay full price for Android tablet.. when they have to fight fairly in price against an Apple tablet.
Comments
This is the real reason why Microsoft didn't announce Surface prices. They're going to try and match or undercut the Google pad price.
Microsoft learned the hard way with Zune. Launched it at the same price as the top iPod.
And Apple immediately dropped the price of the iPod by $100. BOOM.
It will be interesting to watch Microsoft and Google try to beat each other on price. Google is depending on ad revenue from Android,
so hardware profit / loss isn't a major concern. Microsoft is relentlessly milking their Windows + Office customers for all they can
squeeze out of them, thus funding all their other money-losing businesses, including Bing, WP7, and soon Surface.
Microsoft and Google are about to start a brand new two-horse race to the bottom. Time to make some popcorn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB
Define 'Pro' for me.
Microsoft Surface Pro. I thought that much was obvious.
What makes you so sure that either the Surface or GooglePad is going to be any good? Microsoft has had major problems with their one major hardware line (xBox), although they eventually sorted them out. Google has shown a massive inability to create a compelling OS, although Motorola can certainly handle the hardware part.
I think Microsoft missed the boat. If the major OEMs have to compete with their licensor, they might as well use the proven Android. If Microsoft had continued their licensing model, they would presumably have had dozens of hardware manufacturers using Windows RT - to avoid competing with their licensor.
Don't forget WebOS. That was actually a pretty decent OS that didn't need all that much work to make it usable. I suspect HP would sell it cheap.
Dear friends in the Apple community - THIS IS ABOUT CHOICE!
I have been an Apple enthusiast for decades, learned to program on a IIe and have used Macs since 1984.
I have been trying to get a poll of those who would like to save various features in Mobile Me that will be lost very soon. Yesterday in the first 15 minutes after I commented in an AI forum, 42 AI users viewed my page and (statistically) about 15 voted. Pretty good show of interest think. (A typical post is below)
Unfortunately, AI some how was threatened by this and denied YOU the reader the opportunity to decide for yourself by repeatedly censoring my post so no one else could see it. In spite of censoring, 117 AI users have visited my POLL in the last week.
This is not self promotion. I get nothing from this. In fact I have spent many hours trying to do this for the Apple community. Therefore it is a bitter surprise that I get treated in this way.
9to5mac, MacDailyNews, Seeking Alpha, NY Times, Motley Fool, have all allowed my posts. I have asked them all to feature my little poll. none have, but at least these have not censored me. I try to be a "good citizen" and not post more than once (occasionally 2x) in a given day in any blog. That is - I try not to be a spammer. But this is the only way I know of to get this out.
PLEASE - email AI and ask them to run a feature on my little poll so that more people in the Apple community will have the choice to participate if they see fit. Let the individuals decide for themselves.
Many Thanks! - jmmx
=========== post
My apologies for being off topic in this, but time is running out and I know more people are interested in this as several hundred have visited and a good proportion have voted. So please bear with me as I believe this is of interest to many in the Apple community.
Thank you for your patience.
Unfortunately, when MobileMe gets shuttered in 2 weeks some basic functionality will be lost. However, there is a movement to save some of the soon-to-be-lost features. Check out this link. Just vote in the poll to register your vote.
— http://savemefeatures.wordpress.com/
Thank you.
Me Too! Me Too! Me Too!
Oracle bought Sun.
Google bought Android.
Microsoft now makes mice, keyboards, XBoxes and tablets.
How many pure play software giants are left?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Google has shown a massive inability to create a compelling OS,
Does it make any sense to point out that Google's OS, despite not being "compelling", outsells iOS more than 2:1 in the phone market?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr
every OEM in the world can read the handwriting on the wall today: see ya later, dudes!
within two years Google will stop pretending and push Motorola tablets only. ditto MS with its own Windows brand. any OEM without its own in-house OS will be out of the tablet game, permanently. only Samsung has already figured this out. HP totally missed it and threw WebOS away. Nokia sold its soul to MS and threw MeeGo away. Sony has never had a clue anyway. and Asus, HTC, et al. are just drifting, looking for a miracle.
the smart guy is the one that scoops up RIM cheap, just to get QNX.
why buy rim when android is free. anyone can fork it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
What makes you so sure that either the Surface or GooglePad is going to be any good? Microsoft has had major problems with their one major hardware line (xBox), although they eventually sorted them out. Google has shown a massive inability to create a compelling OS, although Motorola can certainly handle the hardware part.
I think Microsoft missed the boat. If the major OEMs have to compete with their licensor, they might as well use the proven Android. If Microsoft had continued their licensing model, they would presumably have had dozens of hardware manufacturers using Windows RT - to avoid competing with their licensor.
But they saw the Android tablet landscape and couldn't be convinced that leaving the hardware to the Asian vendors would turn the tide against Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Don't forget WebOS. That was actually a pretty decent OS that didn't need all that much work to make it usable. I suspect HP would sell it cheap.
I thought they were opensourcing WebOS? I do agree it is pretty slick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerrySwitched26
Does it make any sense to point out that Google's OS, despite not being "compelling", outsells iOS more than 2:1 in the phone market?
It makes sense to point it out. It also makes sense to wonder how many Android owners are buying their devices because of Android. And which version of Android compelled their purchasing decision?
Hear that???...
That's Microsoft making a 'collective' groan!
*snickers*
/
/
/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman
Me Too! Me Too! Me Too!
MeToo is MeeGo version 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr
every OEM in the world can read the handwriting on the wall today: see ya later, dudes!
within two years Google will stop pretending and push Motorola tablets only. ditto MS with its own Windows brand. any OEM without its own in-house OS will be out of the tablet game, permanently. only Samsung has already figured this out. HP totally missed it and threw WebOS away. Nokia sold its soul to MS and threw MeeGo away. Sony has never had a clue anyway. and Asus, HTC, et al. are just drifting, looking for a miracle.
the smart guy is the one that scoops up RIM cheap, just to get QNX.
Not my take. Google just needs successful a model or two to demonstrate the viability of an Android Tablet and boost the market. They're not after making the whole Android pie. There business model is not hardware development but maximising android adoption as part of their advertising/data harvesting gig.
WebOS is a decent OS, it was too late to the party to take off - lack of Apps. Same with RIM, although imo their OS wasn't as decent as Palm's. I don't think it will take off if bought out. HP couldn't sell WebOS any better than Palm did. Time dragged on and iOS and Android became established with the App Support to make them attractive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cronked
In the process they will be canibalizing sales of their hardware partners. It is everyone for themselves at this point. If you don't own an OS, you are screwed. Google has really done a 180 since their "do no evil" days.
Same way that the Galaxy Nexus Canibalizes all the OEMs hardware. You don't know anything about android do you?
True... but a lot of people buy a phone because it's a phone. They don't really care what operating system it has on it.
I know tons of people with Android phones... and most of them have their phones looking exactly like the day they bought it.
They call, text and Facebook. That's it. They're not customizing the interface and installing ROMs.
So what does it mean when Android is outselling iOS? Is Android somehow "better" because it outsells the iPhone?
MS and Apple are the only two companies able to make crossover tablets and Apple doesn't want to.
MS can price their Surface Pro tablet comparable to the iPad and have sales if the product is otherwise comparable...because while Apple has a huge lead in the iOS ecosystem MS has app compatibility with legacy x86 apps.
How many times do you hear "I could give up windows except I need to run program X"? Apple solves this issue with Bootcamp, Parallels and VmWare on the MBA.
MS is solving this issue with the Surface Pro and legacy mode. Once into the Win8 app ecosystem you're more inclined to buy a comparable ARM based Surface than an iPad if everything else (build quality, availability to key apps, etc) are more or less equal. What will be interesting is if you buy a Metro app for x86 do you also get the ARM version if it exists and vice versa...I would hope yes.
MS' strategy can work, it just has to not suck in execution. That jury is still out. It could be Vista, it could be Win7.
I also think that many MS partners wont care much about Surface if MS keeps the price comparable to the iPad 2. Yes, it's competition but likely at a higher price point that they were figuring on being able to compete with the iPad anyway. The only partner I can think of that it really screws is Sony and their VAIO line. Asus, Acer, et al can bring Win8 Pro and RT tablets at their traditional price points in competition with cheap Android tablets.
Let MS bleed subsidizing a premium product to compete against the iPad head to head. Nobody can afford to risk the volume of devices to achieve the same economies of scale that Apple can with the iPad. Not even Samsung. The risk of ending up with several million tablets in a warehouse is just too high.
Nobody can sell a premium product for more than $50-100 less than Apple if at all. If MS sells a $500 tablet at $400 to match the iPad 2 price that leaves the other partners to sell low margin but at least positive margin Win8 tablets in the $250-$300 range against $150-$200 Android tablets being sold as loss leaders by Amazon.
Given Amazon's business model cratering the perceived value of Android tablets and the price point of Google's tablet that market is just a tough one to do anything useful with. As long as MS doesn't follow suit...and given the apparent build quality of the Surface they aren't. They are building a premium reference platform to go head to head against the iPad probably by bleeding a huge subsidy for the "flagship" win8 products but still maintaining head room for partners to make money.
That strikes me as smart. Smart enough? It'll take time to tell.
Another company quickly announces vaporware to compete with their competitors vaporware. Meanwhile Apple just keeps shipping.
That doesn't mean it's compelling. That is, unless you have some evidence that people are buying Android phones because of compelling features in the OS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr
every OEM in the world can read the handwriting on the wall today: see ya later, dudes!
within two years Google will stop pretending and push Motorola tablets only. ditto MS with its own Windows brand. any OEM without its own in-house OS will be out of the tablet game, permanently. only Samsung has already figured this out. HP totally missed it and threw WebOS away. Nokia sold its soul to MS and threw MeeGo away. Sony has never had a clue anyway. and Asus, HTC, et al. are just drifting, looking for a miracle.
the smart guy is the one that scoops up RIM cheap, just to get QNX.
Interesting take. And I'd be inclined to agree. Great points!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerrySwitched26
Does it make any sense to point out that Google's OS, despite not being "compelling", outsells iOS more than 2:1 in the phone market?
The keyword being "sells". On average what do you think people pay for Android device. Between 1000's of 99cent offers, the buy 1 get 1 free and the straight out free-with-contract offers.. its no wonder why Android gained so quickly in popularity. Show me a single model of Android phone that sells anywhere close to single model of iPhone.. and then we could talk. Hell when you are practically giving phones away for free.. its easy to gain marketshare.
Heavily discounted sales is the reason why Android succeeds in the phone market. And why it fails in the tablet market. Without the 99cent tablets, the buy1get1 free tablets or free subsidized tablets.. they cannot compete. Not many people are willing to pay full price for Android tablet.. when they have to fight fairly in price against an Apple tablet.