I haven't had time to read each and every 'map-gate' post, so I apologize in advance if this has been covered, but there's maybe 90 million iPhones on the planet according to Apple's numbers. Arguably, some percentage of these are no longer usable (broken, abandoned, lost, etc.), but what is the percentage of actual iOS6 users out there that are 'angry' about their new map app? Is the map 'outrage' a result of 5% of the user baser base? 10%? 20? The vast majority of users can simply wait this out if a map app is a deal breaker -- and, of course early adopters really have no excuse for hyper-whining. Never update any system that is mission critical without first vetting it! In the case of iPhones, best to wait if you can't live without what you already have. With the exception of new iPhone5 users, no one forced anyone to use or update to iOS6. I too don't see the catastrophe'.
You might as well not bother asking. I've been regularly asking the complainers for some real data as to how many people are affected and how many people have just as bad a problem with Google maps since the whole thing started. No response.
These Apple haters are great at whining but lousy at backing their position. And I'm willing to predict that this "there's no problem with Apple's Maps" story will get about 2% as much play as the "Maps-gate" nonsense.
Apple haters didn't do this. All of the iOS drama queens who go ballistic every time a new app or product doesn't meet their expectations did. In another thread we actually had some bozo post "millions of iOS users are now disoriented" or some such tripe. Then we have the types who state their personal, often biased, opinion as indisputable fact. See above "Given that Google Maps is the exponentially more mature/polished product," What a self important blowhard.
They get to poke fun at Apple like we poke fun at their "lag" and cheap fragmented plastic devices.
IMHO it was Tom Cooks apology letter today that's making the map issues prominent. I've seen two different local new reports this evening on how Apple Maps is a rare failure for Apple. I'd guess that most consumers had no idea there were any complaints about the new maps, if they were even aware of new maps in the first place. A whole lot more have heard about it now with it making local and national news, The one report even pointed out how serious the problems were with the evidence being Apple's Cook suggesting other map providers for now . . . even Google Maps who they replaced. Less informed consumers may be thinking it's a whole lot worse than it is based on today's apology.
IMO, Tim Cook may have realized (just like any other corporation being reviewed positively) that easier to buy CR than just ignore.
CR doesn't accept advertising. Their methods aren't flawless (they over-rely on subscriber surveys, don't reveal their testing methods, etc), but they can be a good source of information as they buy their own products.
What may have happened is that the first blog post was based on initial customer reaction, but then they later did more controlled tests. What I'm finding are some patterns. For instance, it tends to give Brooklyn addresses when an address is present in both Manhattan and Brooklyn, while Google Maps tends to default to the Manhattan addresses (assuming you are in Manhattan). E.g. 541 Lexington is the address for the W Hotel in Manhattan. If I look for 541 Lexington, New York, NY in Apple Maps, I get a valid Brooklyn address. If I replace "New York" with "Manhattan" it works. I've already suggested to Apple (through Maps) that they replace the Brooklyn entry with "Brooklyn, NY") since that's how the USPS categorizes it. They use "New York, NY" to refer to Manhattan only.
Thank you 'Consumer Reports' for another thrilling article of things that have already been said. The should change their title to 'What bloggers were overreacting about yesterday Reports'
So Mapgate was entirely fabricated by Apple haters.
Heck, when even CR (which has a long history of being unfair to Apple) says it's not an issue, maybe that will shut all the complainers up.
As for the rest, most of it is (as they acknowledge) differences in the way Apple does it. They automatically call it bad if it's different than what they had before.
Unfortunately, history says that this won't shut the complainers up.
Eh, I wouldn't say it fabricated... blown out proportion? Yeah. Just as every thing Apple does. Remember how Siri was going to talk everyone into committing suicide? Now Maps is going to drive everyone off a cliff.
It gets ridiculous, so I tend to ignore it. I've only found one issue in my area so far... listed a business that is no longer in business. So, I of course reported it. So simple.
IMHO it was Tom Cooks apology letter today that's making the map issues prominent. I've seen two different local new reports this evening on how Apple Maps is a rare failure for Apple. I'd guess that most consumers had no idea there were any complaints about the new maps, if they were even aware of new maps in the first place. A whole lot more have heard about it now with it making local and national news, The one report even pointed out how serious the problems were with the evidence being Apple's Cook suggesting other map providers for now . . . even Google Maps who they replaced. Less informed consumers may be thinking it's a whole lot worse than it is based on today's apology.
Most people won't care. If they've used it and works, they'll keep using it.
So Mapgate was entirely fabricated by Apple haters.
Heck, when even CR (which has a long history of being unfair to Apple) says it's not an issue, maybe that will shut all the complainers up.
As for the rest, most of it is (as they acknowledge) differences in the way Apple does it. They automatically call it bad if it's different than what they had before.
Unfortunately, history says that this won't shut the complainers up.
While I don't disagree with your overall statement, I do wonder where the "long history of being unfair to Apple" comes from? Have you subscribed to CR? Or are you basing that statement on what you've heard other people say (if you are basing it on what you read on AI, you need to find other sources of info)? And if that's the case, you are doing the same thing as so many people here claiming the iMaps "complainers" are doing. Namely, bitching only because they read bad opinions posted elsewhere.
I'm not saying that's what you are doing...saying CR has a long history of Apple bashing simply becasue that's what other people have told you. But I was a subscriber to CR for several years in the mid-2000s (I cancelled my subscription before the whole "antenna-gate" fiasco.) Pretty much universally, CR was very favorable towards Apple products. Consistenly placing them at/near the top of their rankings.
CR may have gotten a lot of rightully deserved criticism for the antenna reporting, but to translate that into "a long history of being unfair to Apple" is just as CR-hater and people here are claiming iMaps complainers are Apple-haters...hating for no reason or because someone else told them to hate.
I haven't tried iMaps yet, but if the data on points of interest is in fact lacking, it is a issue to me. I use Maps in iOS5 far more for finding things than for directions. I can read a map and don't need a computer to tell me when to turn left or right. If there are deficiencies in the searching function and POI database of iMaps, than I want/need to know about them because that's far more important to me.
Apple haters didn't do this. All of the iOS drama queens who go ballistic every time a new app or product doesn't meet their expectations did. In another thread we actually had some bozo post "millions of iOS users are now disoriented" or some such tripe. Then we have the types who state their personal, often biased, opinion as indisputable fact. See above "Given that Google Maps is the exponentially more mature/polished product," What a self important blowhard.
Steve Jobs advised his team: "after I'm dead, don't ask yourselves what Steve would do", and Cook simply followed this advice. This is one instance when he should have ignored SJ's advice and not issued an apology. Every change is painful and it will take time getting used to the new Maps app. I have tried setting up different routes in Maps, and they all match my go-to satnav app, Navigon, producing the same alternative routes and the same road choices.
Cook's apology doesn't benefit Apple in any way, and I hope that all those people out there using iOS6 sit down with their dvice, plan some routes and say "hey, what's the problem, this thing works just fine".
IMHO it was Tom Cooks apology letter today that's making the map issues prominent. I've seen two different local new reports this evening on how Apple Maps is a rare failure for Apple. I'd guess that most consumers had no idea there were any complaints about the new maps, if they were even aware of new maps in the first place. A whole lot more have heard about it now with it making local and national news, The one report even pointed out how serious the problems were with the evidence being Apple's Cook suggesting other map providers for now . . . even Google Maps who they replaced. Less informed consumers may be thinking it's a whole lot worse than it is based on today's apology.
An anti-Apple friend of mine is going to buy an iPod Touch after reading the apology. Up until that point he thought that Apple was run by 'fashionistas with a God complex' (whatever that means).
I think the 'apology' was a good move. Staying quiet would simply give sites (like this one) an excuse to carry out more tests, write more articles, and keep the whole thing rolling for months. The letter will get the vocal faithful back on board, which will bring the press, because the press will write whatever will bring them the most hits.
But if you think it was just an apology then you need to read it again. Cook has also told the customer base (and the Google fans) that there will be no turning back, so here are the options if you want to get off.
Risky? Not really, because Cook knows that the vast majority are using the system without any major problems, so they have no reason to move.
Oh, and along with the railway stations posting help signs for people who had downloaded maps, and the Irish Justice Minister publicly asking Apple to put Dublin Airport back where it belongs, the BBC has been running stories on the problems.
Trust me, 'the less-informed consumer' already knows. That's why a statement was necessary.
Apple haters didn't do this. All of the iOS drama queens who go ballistic every time a new app or product doesn't meet their expectations did. In another thread we actually had some bozo post "millions of iOS users are now disoriented" or some such tripe. Then we have the types who state their personal, often biased, opinion as indisputable fact. See above "Given that Google Maps is the exponentially more mature/polished product," What a self important blowhard.
And watch for the same people who said that Maps was a disaster, who will now say it wasn't that bad and Cook was weak for apologising.
"Look, I own a full-sized inflatable giraffe and shares in a lap-dancing club in Scunthorpe; so when I tell you Steve would have never apologised for anything, then you know I speak the living truth!"
I like how no one has any respect for Consumer Reports at Apple Insider (and rightly so), until they publish something favourable like this and then it's a big story all of a sudden.
Oh, and there is a misquote in the article, "voice recognition 'seemed compatible between the platforms' ..." (should be "comparable," not "compatible").
Perhaps in America, Apple Maps is great but here in Japan, it's a different story. Here in Yokohama, my university is not even on the map! Google Maps not only shows the university but also shows the building names. And so many areas have much, much, much less detail than Google Maps. I went on a trip recently and I was impressed that Google maps had great detail, even in outback areas with small streets even listed. Not so with Apple Maps. The difference IS exponential!
While I don't disagree with your overall statement, I do wonder where the "long history of being unfair to Apple" comes from? Have you subscribed to CR? Or are you basing that statement on what you've heard other people say (if you are basing it on what you read on AI, you need to find other sources of info)? And if that's the case, you are doing the same thing as so many people here claiming the iMaps "complainers" are doing. Namely, bitching only because they read bad opinions posted elsewhere.
Well, no. I've covered CR's reviews of Apple products for 2 decades now. Every review I've ever seen them do was full of total nonsense and false information. And even when the information was accurate, they almost always ended the review with something like 'it's faster than the alternatives, better built, more reliable, easier to use, more productive, and much higher customer satisfaction, but we can't recommend it because it doesn't run Windows.' They have a long history of setting up some silly criteria and using them as the gold standard whether or not the criteria are valid. Like the iPhone 4 nonsense. "It's the best phone on the market, but we can't recommend it because of the antenna thing" - even though other tests showed that every other phone on the market did the same thing and that Apple's reception was better than most.
I like how no one has any respect for Consumer Reports at Apple Insider (and rightly so), until they publish something favourable like this and then it's a big story all of a sudden. .
That's because it is.
If Steve Ballmer says that Apple products aren't any good, that isn't news because he's been saying that (and being wrong) for over a decade. If Steve Ballmer says that Apple products are great, it would be news.
CR has been so consistently Anti-Apple that their saying it isn't a problem means it really isn't a problem.
Comments
You might as well not bother asking. I've been regularly asking the complainers for some real data as to how many people are affected and how many people have just as bad a problem with Google maps since the whole thing started. No response.
These Apple haters are great at whining but lousy at backing their position. And I'm willing to predict that this "there's no problem with Apple's Maps" story will get about 2% as much play as the "Maps-gate" nonsense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant
They get to poke fun at Apple like we poke fun at their "lag" and cheap fragmented plastic devices.
IMHO it was Tom Cooks apology letter today that's making the map issues prominent. I've seen two different local new reports this evening on how Apple Maps is a rare failure for Apple. I'd guess that most consumers had no idea there were any complaints about the new maps, if they were even aware of new maps in the first place. A whole lot more have heard about it now with it making local and national news, The one report even pointed out how serious the problems were with the evidence being Apple's Cook suggesting other map providers for now . . . even Google Maps who they replaced. Less informed consumers may be thinking it's a whole lot worse than it is based on today's apology.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason98
IMO, Tim Cook may have realized (just like any other corporation being reviewed positively) that easier to buy CR than just ignore.
CR doesn't accept advertising. Their methods aren't flawless (they over-rely on subscriber surveys, don't reveal their testing methods, etc), but they can be a good source of information as they buy their own products.
What may have happened is that the first blog post was based on initial customer reaction, but then they later did more controlled tests. What I'm finding are some patterns. For instance, it tends to give Brooklyn addresses when an address is present in both Manhattan and Brooklyn, while Google Maps tends to default to the Manhattan addresses (assuming you are in Manhattan). E.g. 541 Lexington is the address for the W Hotel in Manhattan. If I look for 541 Lexington, New York, NY in Apple Maps, I get a valid Brooklyn address. If I replace "New York" with "Manhattan" it works. I've already suggested to Apple (through Maps) that they replace the Brooklyn entry with "Brooklyn, NY") since that's how the USPS categorizes it. They use "New York, NY" to refer to Manhattan only.
If you're going to do a comparison, don't limit yourself to San Francisco. Take in a major city from each continent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
So Mapgate was entirely fabricated by Apple haters.
Heck, when even CR (which has a long history of being unfair to Apple) says it's not an issue, maybe that will shut all the complainers up.
As for the rest, most of it is (as they acknowledge) differences in the way Apple does it. They automatically call it bad if it's different than what they had before.
Unfortunately, history says that this won't shut the complainers up.
Eh, I wouldn't say it fabricated... blown out proportion? Yeah. Just as every thing Apple does. Remember how Siri was going to talk everyone into committing suicide? Now Maps is going to drive everyone off a cliff.
It gets ridiculous, so I tend to ignore it. I've only found one issue in my area so far... listed a business that is no longer in business. So, I of course reported it. So simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
IMHO it was Tom Cooks apology letter today that's making the map issues prominent. I've seen two different local new reports this evening on how Apple Maps is a rare failure for Apple. I'd guess that most consumers had no idea there were any complaints about the new maps, if they were even aware of new maps in the first place. A whole lot more have heard about it now with it making local and national news, The one report even pointed out how serious the problems were with the evidence being Apple's Cook suggesting other map providers for now . . . even Google Maps who they replaced. Less informed consumers may be thinking it's a whole lot worse than it is based on today's apology.
Most people won't care. If they've used it and works, they'll keep using it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
Maybe their absence explains why Samsung phones ship with Navigon.
....they don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
So Mapgate was entirely fabricated by Apple haters.
Heck, when even CR (which has a long history of being unfair to Apple) says it's not an issue, maybe that will shut all the complainers up.
As for the rest, most of it is (as they acknowledge) differences in the way Apple does it. They automatically call it bad if it's different than what they had before.
Unfortunately, history says that this won't shut the complainers up.
While I don't disagree with your overall statement, I do wonder where the "long history of being unfair to Apple" comes from? Have you subscribed to CR? Or are you basing that statement on what you've heard other people say (if you are basing it on what you read on AI, you need to find other sources of info)? And if that's the case, you are doing the same thing as so many people here claiming the iMaps "complainers" are doing. Namely, bitching only because they read bad opinions posted elsewhere.
I'm not saying that's what you are doing...saying CR has a long history of Apple bashing simply becasue that's what other people have told you. But I was a subscriber to CR for several years in the mid-2000s (I cancelled my subscription before the whole "antenna-gate" fiasco.) Pretty much universally, CR was very favorable towards Apple products. Consistenly placing them at/near the top of their rankings.
CR may have gotten a lot of rightully deserved criticism for the antenna reporting, but to translate that into "a long history of being unfair to Apple" is just as CR-hater and people here are claiming iMaps complainers are Apple-haters...hating for no reason or because someone else told them to hate.
I haven't tried iMaps yet, but if the data on points of interest is in fact lacking, it is a issue to me. I use Maps in iOS5 far more for finding things than for directions. I can read a map and don't need a computer to tell me when to turn left or right. If there are deficiencies in the searching function and POI database of iMaps, than I want/need to know about them because that's far more important to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp
Apple haters didn't do this. All of the iOS drama queens who go ballistic every time a new app or product doesn't meet their expectations did. In another thread we actually had some bozo post "millions of iOS users are now disoriented" or some such tripe. Then we have the types who state their personal, often biased, opinion as indisputable fact. See above "Given that Google Maps is the exponentially more mature/polished product," What a self important blowhard.
Finally, a voice of reason.
Steve Jobs advised his team: "after I'm dead, don't ask yourselves what Steve would do", and Cook simply followed this advice. This is one instance when he should have ignored SJ's advice and not issued an apology. Every change is painful and it will take time getting used to the new Maps app. I have tried setting up different routes in Maps, and they all match my go-to satnav app, Navigon, producing the same alternative routes and the same road choices.
Cook's apology doesn't benefit Apple in any way, and I hope that all those people out there using iOS6 sit down with their dvice, plan some routes and say "hey, what's the problem, this thing works just fine".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
IMHO it was Tom Cooks apology letter today that's making the map issues prominent. I've seen two different local new reports this evening on how Apple Maps is a rare failure for Apple. I'd guess that most consumers had no idea there were any complaints about the new maps, if they were even aware of new maps in the first place. A whole lot more have heard about it now with it making local and national news, The one report even pointed out how serious the problems were with the evidence being Apple's Cook suggesting other map providers for now . . . even Google Maps who they replaced. Less informed consumers may be thinking it's a whole lot worse than it is based on today's apology.
An anti-Apple friend of mine is going to buy an iPod Touch after reading the apology. Up until that point he thought that Apple was run by 'fashionistas with a God complex' (whatever that means).
I think the 'apology' was a good move. Staying quiet would simply give sites (like this one) an excuse to carry out more tests, write more articles, and keep the whole thing rolling for months. The letter will get the vocal faithful back on board, which will bring the press, because the press will write whatever will bring them the most hits.
But if you think it was just an apology then you need to read it again. Cook has also told the customer base (and the Google fans) that there will be no turning back, so here are the options if you want to get off.
Risky? Not really, because Cook knows that the vast majority are using the system without any major problems, so they have no reason to move.
Oh, and along with the railway stations posting help signs for people who had downloaded maps, and the Irish Justice Minister publicly asking Apple to put Dublin Airport back where it belongs, the BBC has been running stories on the problems.
Trust me, 'the less-informed consumer' already knows. That's why a statement was necessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp
Apple haters didn't do this. All of the iOS drama queens who go ballistic every time a new app or product doesn't meet their expectations did. In another thread we actually had some bozo post "millions of iOS users are now disoriented" or some such tripe. Then we have the types who state their personal, often biased, opinion as indisputable fact. See above "Given that Google Maps is the exponentially more mature/polished product," What a self important blowhard.
And watch for the same people who said that Maps was a disaster, who will now say it wasn't that bad and Cook was weak for apologising.
"Look, I own a full-sized inflatable giraffe and shares in a lap-dancing club in Scunthorpe; so when I tell you Steve would have never apologised for anything, then you know I speak the living truth!"
i expected it to let me drive across the ocean. but it didn't. that let-down is on me.
where did your expectation come from? your own concoction, or something in the marketing?
yeesh.
Oh, and there is a misquote in the article, "voice recognition 'seemed compatible between the platforms' ..." (should be "comparable," not "compatible").
You must have a problem with points. 1000000000.1
Well, no. I've covered CR's reviews of Apple products for 2 decades now. Every review I've ever seen them do was full of total nonsense and false information. And even when the information was accurate, they almost always ended the review with something like 'it's faster than the alternatives, better built, more reliable, easier to use, more productive, and much higher customer satisfaction, but we can't recommend it because it doesn't run Windows.' They have a long history of setting up some silly criteria and using them as the gold standard whether or not the criteria are valid. Like the iPhone 4 nonsense. "It's the best phone on the market, but we can't recommend it because of the antenna thing" - even though other tests showed that every other phone on the market did the same thing and that Apple's reception was better than most.
That's because it is.
If Steve Ballmer says that Apple products aren't any good, that isn't news because he's been saying that (and being wrong) for over a decade. If Steve Ballmer says that Apple products are great, it would be news.
CR has been so consistently Anti-Apple that their saying it isn't a problem means it really isn't a problem.