It's all about margins... there must be nearly equal margins on the iPad 3 and iPad Mini. At the end of the day it's all good for Apple, and to some degree Amazon (as long as people continue to read books using the Kindle App).
It's unlikely to change my wife's and my buying habits when it comes to iPads.
I bought the first gen and my wife the second. I then bought the 3rd gen (Retina) and despite the iPad mini coming out she is going to be buying the gen 4, and so on.
I think I have a different take than the "cannibalize" view...
Rather than seeing it as every 5 minis TAKING one full-size sale, I see it instead as "for every full-size iPad potentially sold, Apple is adding four more customers……"
Really. Lose one to gain five….? That's good math. Really good math. At least, from a sales perspective it is...
Absolute bull. There is absolutely no way you can gauge the popularity of an unreleased product. Any calculations of "cannibalisation rates" he does are pure fantasy and given the messenger, not worth talking about.
That certainly is true, even if it turns out not to be true.
Reading books on my iPad (3) can get tiring after a while. The screen is gorgeous, but the weight seems to increase by the hour. I'll probably grab a 16GB iPad Mini (or whatever they're going to call it) just for reading books. That's assuming, or course, the it ends up being significantly lighter.
Why are people complaining about the weight? I honestly do not understand; I let it rest on my tummy, on the table, on my desk, on everywhere. Why are people holding it for extensive periods of time? An honest question.
Oh, it's so complicated!
Wholesale is likely more than Apple pays. And a 5-fold markup over wholesale is ordinarily enough to make a very good profit.
Of course they pay less than anybody else in the world. But I'm saying that basing your grousing on the price of the parts alone is ignorant. You don't have a clue what it costs them to run these several options through production and inventory. Do you? Parse it out, present your figures, then accuse them of gouging their customers if you still feel you are being shafted.
The sad part is you can't just go buy some more memory from a retailer who charges a fair price and add it to your iPad yourself.
I feel real sorry for the ignorant (or rich) people who max out the memory when they buy a mac computer and pay a crapload extra for said memory when they could have just added some inexpensive memory from another manufacturer. Total ripoff.
You can feel sorry for whomever you want, but if someone is (for example) a $500/hr consultant, spending an hour or more ordering, then receiving, then installing third party RAM is really not worth it. Even if there is an IT department to deal with this sort of stuff, it is really not worth the hassle.
That certainly is true, even if it turns out not to be true.
Why are people complaining about the weight? I honestly do not understand; I let it rest on my tummy, on the table, on my desk, on everywhere. Why are people holding it for extensive periods of time? An honest question.
Munster wants us to believe that folks would have bought the regular iPad if the mini doesn't happen. And that might be true, if they are forced to buy it for one thing like the kiddies have to have it for school.
Otherwise, he is full of crap. Folks that buy the mini in 90% of cases would not have bought the full one because it was too big etc. so the Mini would cannabalize the Kindle etc.
That's where the magic works. If Apple cut its profit per unit by half, the would get 5 halves for mini iPad versus 2 halves for the big one. That's considerable net gain.
Like you say, this is to reach a market that's not GOING to buy a full iPad. But at the same time you might sell more... Instead of Dad buying just one, Dad buys Teen #1 and later teen #2 one six months later.... Apple mops the floor in the App Store!
None of these methods you speak of are anywhere near reliable or factual. Asking people what they feel about a product they have never seen or used (or even seen a review or advertisement for), is just ridiculous. I realise it's done all the time, but the idea that such activities have any level of accuracy at all or can actually tell us anything meaningful is poppycock.
- "Customer surveys" are notorious for being possibly the least accurate way of getting to the bottom of anything. People lie constantly, unconsciously, and most of the time without even being aware that they are.
I believe you are spot on with all you stated, however, much of the time surveys are stated so blandly it makes the responder confused and more likely to answer in a way in which he or she will not act in the near future... If I were to ask, "Are you planning on buying a highly desired Apple iDevice in the near future, or a fucking piece of convoluted, unintuitive Android shit?" I feel confident they will likely buy the way they responded.
Of course they pay less than anybody else in the world. But I'm saying that basing your grousing on the price of the parts alone is ignorant. You don't have a clue what it costs them to run these several options through production and inventory. Do you? Parse it out, present your figures, then accuse them of gouging their customers if you still feel you are being shafted.
Why should I have to do that when Apple already has?
That certainly is true, even if it turns out not to be true.
Why are people complaining about the weight? I honestly do not understand; I let it rest on my tummy, on the table, on my desk, on everywhere. Why are people holding it for extensive periods of time? An honest question.
I don't mind the weight at all, but (for example) NJ transit trains do not have trays, so you have to hold the device in your hands.
Ah, ok. So you're standing then, I presume. Yeah, then I get the point. If I were to commute by train I'd leave it in my bag and use my iPhone. Of course a lighter iPad would be better, but I cannot envision holding on to the train and 'operate' my iPad.
I frankly don't see where the hell those stats come from.
Some people are paid to guess. Unless they have done a poll of survey that's all it is.
You can’t e.g. base this off what happened when Apple launched flash-based iPods vs. disk-based ones because the functionality trade-off is different. Where the comparison does apply is some other paid guessers claiming that Apple can’t do that well in this market because it’s already “saturated”. There’s a good reason most of the competition is in the smaller device space. Apple isn’t there yet. I don’t know if Apple has done market research (despite Jobs officially disdaining this, I would hope they have done some sanity check on how many will sell before setting the supply chain juggernaut into motion). We’ll soon know from the first day then first week response if there’s genuinely a huge pent-up demand for a smaller Apple-branded device.
Until then, since I’m not paid to guess, I won’t. Easy money if you can get away with it.
So, for every 5 ipad minis (let's assume $249 each minimum spec) @ $1245
it cannibalizes a $499 (minimum spec) sale.
So Apple will actually be up by $746 for every normal iPad that it doesn't sell.
I don't think they are panicking.
You're missing the "profit" part. If Apple makes 30% of a $499 sale it's earning about $150. It would be nice to think that Apple would have a 30% margin pricing a device at $249, but I suspect that it would be 25%, or about $62. So you'd need to sell 5 smaller devices to compensate for 2 larger. However, he also doesn't identify whether any sales would cannibalize the iPod Touch so the real evidence is in quarterly sales.
well, yes... it costs a bit more to buy the higher capacity, but if you need it, or use it, then it's the right way to spend those extra dollars (and I do… my 64GB iPad has only 3GB of free space. I would've paid another $200 for a 128GB iPad, and no doubt it'd have only 8GB free by now)...
I don't "like high prices", but I WILL pay more to get more.
Once you've decided to buy in at the iPad's base price, buying a higher capacity version does not add that much to the price… double capacity (32GB) for another $100… again (to 64GB) for another $100… I found the value at 64GB to be highest, right along with the higher price….
I don't know why there's all this fuss about the iPad Mini, where's the iPad Jumbo?
The iPad needs to get bigger not smaller.
Would you buy a 13" iPad? Say, 64GB with a 13" Retina Display, for $1,000? Or 128GB for $1,200? If they actually released one, I might seriously consider it… how much would it weigh? 1.5 lbs? 2…? How would you use it?
But…... approaching that price point and size, why not go with something like a 13" MacBook Air instead? You'd get quite a lot of the everyday "multitouch" functionality using the trackpad… It's lightweight, offers a full-size physical keyboard, etc. etc… so a one pound lighter iPad, full multitouch/iOS - VS. - a bit heavier 'clamshell' Air, partial-multitouch/OS X…. interesting...
I think it might only be a matter of time before the Air gets a full iPad-style touchscreen… or the iPad hits the 13" size… or most likely we get some new hybrid tech that transforms the form factor further, and it all consolidates a bit further (while a few new devices fill gaps with more "specialized functions", like iPods have done)….
Going back to a larger iPad concept… how big is "too big" for a tablet with that form factor?
Comments
It's all about margins... there must be nearly equal margins on the iPad 3 and iPad Mini. At the end of the day it's all good for Apple, and to some degree Amazon (as long as people continue to read books using the Kindle App).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabon
It's unlikely to change my wife's and my buying habits when it comes to iPads.
I bought the first gen and my wife the second. I then bought the 3rd gen (Retina) and despite the iPad mini coming out she is going to be buying the gen 4, and so on.
You are still allowed to use the iPad 3? Amazing
it cannibalizes a $499 (minimum spec) sale.
So Apple will actually be up by $746 for every normal iPad that it doesn't sell.
I don't think they are panicking.
I think I have a different take than the "cannibalize" view...
Rather than seeing it as every 5 minis TAKING one full-size sale, I see it instead as "for every full-size iPad potentially sold, Apple is adding four more customers……"
Really. Lose one to gain five….? That's good math. Really good math. At least, from a sales perspective it is...
That certainly is true, even if it turns out not to be true.
Why are people complaining about the weight? I honestly do not understand; I let it rest on my tummy, on the table, on my desk, on everywhere. Why are people holding it for extensive periods of time? An honest question.
Of course they pay less than anybody else in the world. But I'm saying that basing your grousing on the price of the parts alone is ignorant. You don't have a clue what it costs them to run these several options through production and inventory. Do you? Parse it out, present your figures, then accuse them of gouging their customers if you still feel you are being shafted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by faZZter
The sad part is you can't just go buy some more memory from a retailer who charges a fair price and add it to your iPad yourself.
I feel real sorry for the ignorant (or rich) people who max out the memory when they buy a mac computer and pay a crapload extra for said memory when they could have just added some inexpensive memory from another manufacturer. Total ripoff.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }You can feel sorry for whomever you want, but if someone is (for example) a $500/hr consultant, spending an hour or more ordering, then receiving, then installing third party RAM is really not worth it. Even if there is an IT department to deal with this sort of stuff, it is really not worth the hassle.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie
That certainly is true, even if it turns out not to be true.
Why are people complaining about the weight? I honestly do not understand; I let it rest on my tummy, on the table, on my desk, on everywhere. Why are people holding it for extensive periods of time? An honest question.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
I don't mind the weight at all, but (for example) NJ transit trains do not have trays, so you have to hold the device in your hands.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Did you ever just get sick of these so-named 'analysts' guessing? Just look at their iPad 1 year 1 guesses? Embarrassing.
Yep
That's where the magic works. If Apple cut its profit per unit by half, the would get 5 halves for mini iPad versus 2 halves for the big one. That's considerable net gain.
Like you say, this is to reach a market that's not GOING to buy a full iPad. But at the same time you might sell more... Instead of Dad buying just one, Dad buys Teen #1 and later teen #2 one six months later.... Apple mops the floor in the App Store!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
None of these methods you speak of are anywhere near reliable or factual. Asking people what they feel about a product they have never seen or used (or even seen a review or advertisement for), is just ridiculous. I realise it's done all the time, but the idea that such activities have any level of accuracy at all or can actually tell us anything meaningful is poppycock.
- "Customer surveys" are notorious for being possibly the least accurate way of getting to the bottom of anything. People lie constantly, unconsciously, and most of the time without even being aware that they are.
I believe you are spot on with all you stated, however, much of the time surveys are stated so blandly it makes the responder confused and more likely to answer in a way in which he or she will not act in the near future... If I were to ask, "Are you planning on buying a highly desired Apple iDevice in the near future, or a fucking piece of convoluted, unintuitive Android shit?" I feel confident they will likely buy the way they responded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Textbook makers are gonna be excited to make two versions (and formats, etc) of every book.
Seriously? You realize that most of these books already flow text dynamically based on font size, correct? It's not like they're PDF's...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur
Of course they pay less than anybody else in the world. But I'm saying that basing your grousing on the price of the parts alone is ignorant. You don't have a clue what it costs them to run these several options through production and inventory. Do you? Parse it out, present your figures, then accuse them of gouging their customers if you still feel you are being shafted.
Why should I have to do that when Apple already has?
(Thanks, Judge Koh!)
Ah, ok. So you're standing then, I presume. Yeah, then I get the point. If I were to commute by train I'd leave it in my bag and use my iPhone. Of course a lighter iPad would be better, but I cannot envision holding on to the train and 'operate' my iPad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX
I frankly don't see where the hell those stats come from.
Some people are paid to guess. Unless they have done a poll of survey that's all it is.
You can’t e.g. base this off what happened when Apple launched flash-based iPods vs. disk-based ones because the functionality trade-off is different. Where the comparison does apply is some other paid guessers claiming that Apple can’t do that well in this market because it’s already “saturated”. There’s a good reason most of the competition is in the smaller device space. Apple isn’t there yet. I don’t know if Apple has done market research (despite Jobs officially disdaining this, I would hope they have done some sanity check on how many will sell before setting the supply chain juggernaut into motion). We’ll soon know from the first day then first week response if there’s genuinely a huge pent-up demand for a smaller Apple-branded device.
Until then, since I’m not paid to guess, I won’t. Easy money if you can get away with it.
I don't know why there's all this fuss about the iPad Mini, where's the iPad Jumbo?
The iPad needs to get bigger not smaller.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilution
So, for every 5 ipad minis (let's assume $249 each minimum spec) @ $1245
it cannibalizes a $499 (minimum spec) sale.
So Apple will actually be up by $746 for every normal iPad that it doesn't sell.
I don't think they are panicking.
You're missing the "profit" part. If Apple makes 30% of a $499 sale it's earning about $150. It would be nice to think that Apple would have a 30% margin pricing a device at $249, but I suspect that it would be 25%, or about $62. So you'd need to sell 5 smaller devices to compensate for 2 larger. However, he also doesn't identify whether any sales would cannibalize the iPod Touch so the real evidence is in quarterly sales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro
You like the high prices, too.
well, yes... it costs a bit more to buy the higher capacity, but if you need it, or use it, then it's the right way to spend those extra dollars (and I do… my 64GB iPad has only 3GB of free space. I would've paid another $200 for a 128GB iPad, and no doubt it'd have only 8GB free by now)...
I don't "like high prices", but I WILL pay more to get more.
Once you've decided to buy in at the iPad's base price, buying a higher capacity version does not add that much to the price… double capacity (32GB) for another $100… again (to 64GB) for another $100… I found the value at 64GB to be highest, right along with the higher price….
Quote:
Originally Posted by BARCODE
I don't know why there's all this fuss about the iPad Mini, where's the iPad Jumbo?
The iPad needs to get bigger not smaller.
Would you buy a 13" iPad? Say, 64GB with a 13" Retina Display, for $1,000? Or 128GB for $1,200? If they actually released one, I might seriously consider it… how much would it weigh? 1.5 lbs? 2…? How would you use it?
But…... approaching that price point and size, why not go with something like a 13" MacBook Air instead? You'd get quite a lot of the everyday "multitouch" functionality using the trackpad… It's lightweight, offers a full-size physical keyboard, etc. etc… so a one pound lighter iPad, full multitouch/iOS - VS. - a bit heavier 'clamshell' Air, partial-multitouch/OS X…. interesting...
I think it might only be a matter of time before the Air gets a full iPad-style touchscreen… or the iPad hits the 13" size… or most likely we get some new hybrid tech that transforms the form factor further, and it all consolidates a bit further (while a few new devices fill gaps with more "specialized functions", like iPods have done)….
Going back to a larger iPad concept… how big is "too big" for a tablet with that form factor?