Nothing you've stated makes any sense unless you want to describe how Siri on my iPhone or iPad is completely pointless when I'm around other people, using the phone, or watching TV whilst using my iPhone or iPad.
And I'm saying it is. Reread my post, it applies to all iOS devices.
I was agreeing with the quote in your post.
Oh, I'd love to provide feedback, just show me how to navigate out of the forums section via that rip-off chrome button. Apparently, it puts you in an endless loop back to forums.appleinsider.com. Without having to type he main URL mind you.
It the same tv in both photos. So you're telling me apple has been paying royalties to Pioneer for 5 years? to post a photo of one of their TVs on Apples website? Why would apple do that?
If it's the only method for input, sure, that's a horrible idea, same as if an iPhone that only had Siri for input is a horrible idea, but there are things Siri can do faster then we can do with our fingers on a touchscreen, keyboard or remote control.
For your phone:
"Remind me to pick up the dry cleaning when I leave work."
For your TV:
"Record tonight's Rock Center on NBC."
"Record all new episodes of Last Resort."
"Record everything with Jack Nicholson."
Gotcha. If she can hear what you're saying, it'll be swell for those tasks.
"- SILENT EVERYONE, I'm gonna talk to the TV!"
For manoeuvring the tv for content, volume etc something fool proof is needed that can be controlled when sofa is full of chattering people. I think (hope?) "cracked the code for building a TV" is something else than Siri integration.
Plus, bringing Siri to all languages of the world is too huge a task. World leading languages like English and German will be prioritised and work better than small languages like I dunno... Dutch? Belgian? Swedish? Czech?
Gotcha. If she can hear what you're saying, it'll be swell for those tasks.
"- SILENT EVERYONE, I'm gonna talk to the TV!"
For manoeuvring the tv for content, volume etc something fool proof is needed that can be controlled when sofa is full of chattering people. I think (hope?) "cracked the code for building a TV" is something else than Siri integration.
Plus, bringing Siri to all languages of the world is too huge a task. World leading languages like English and German will be prioritised and work better than small languages like I dunno... Dutch? Belgian? Swedish? Czech?
When I use Siri on my phone anything that is playing is paused. I could see that happening with the Apple TV audio out or just reducing the sound to a level that won't affect Siri. I certainly use Siri around other people talking and other loud noises and it does fine.
I wouldn't expect the mic to be in the Apple TV device, but in the remote control itself or in the iDevice if that is what you are using to interface with your TV. What Siri as an extra way to dictate a simple sentence that would result in a complex left, right, up, down, and enter button selection on a remote is really child's play compared to what we've gotten from it so far on the iPhone.
As for languages, this is something that will take a lot of time to work out for all speech-to-text systems. It's not just languages either, but dialects, regional phraseology, speech impediments, etc. What Siri as an extra way to dictate a simple sentence that would result in a complex left, right, up, down, and enter button selection on a remote is really child's play compared to what we've gotten from it so far on the iPhone.
I think the bigger hurdle is not that a device in your hand can't pick up what you are saying when you speak into it but for FaceTime on a TV that can tell where the faces are and zoom/center on those faces for the receiver when that person is talking.
And I'm saying it is. Reread my post, it applies to all iOS devices.
I use Siri whilst watching TV and it's fine. I use Siri at night and it's fine. You've created straw man arguments to say that Siri can't be useful. Just because you don't use Siri doesn't mean Siri isn't useful.
Apple is a one (zero) button shop. For those people (and you may not be one of them), it it requires two remotes (my former wife was one of them), she would get frustrated. Yes, College educated, 3 college educated children, but I had buy her 'content on demand), because it wasn't an 'up channel/down channel/volume' operation on the STB.
And I don't think an Apple TV will be $2000 dollars. My guess is $499/699/999 (37 45 50 inch diags). Remember the Apple TV will be
TV glass
Cable in
Audio Out (SPDIF only)
Ethernet/Wireless
AppleTV guts with additional smarts to handle OTA and Cable Signals
USB (for diagnostics)
Power Cord
Apple Remote.
Less ports than any $300 TV (no PC in, no COMP in, no SVid, No VGA, no VGA no 4 HDMIs in). (VCR/DVD inputs HA! This is Apple!!!!)
Plug it in. Plug in Cable and Ethernet (or assume 802.11n wireless), Press Menu on the Remote. Starts. displays last content. if in TV mode, left/right are channels, up down volume. Play/Pause to... Play or Pause (or select if in a menu) . Press Menu again to select a different mode.
That's it.
So I could not use an Apple TV with my Home Cinema amp that requires just one HDMI on the TV?
I'm not taking a position either for or against this rumor, but your statement is just plain wrong.
What if Apple introduced a full television which had the internals of an Apple TV inside? It would be able to run iOS and you could connect to the App Store and buy and use apps. It's not difficult at all to imagine things outside of what they've done in the past.
I'm not taking a position either for or against this rumor, but your statement is just plain wrong.
What if Apple introduced a full television which had the internals of an Apple TV inside? It would be able to run iOS and you could connect to the App Store and buy and use apps. It's not difficult at all to imagine things outside of what they've done in the past.
FWIW there's already HDTV's running competitors OS's (Lenovo using Android is one example) and offering mobile apps optimized for HDTV. It's not a unique idea.
Why do you keep saying [the box won't have an app store]? I can't imagine anything further from reality. Apple is selling its ecosystem. The box would be offered specifically for mostly non-Apple customers who want their TV solution. What better way to introduce them to their ecosystem? It's like putting iTunes on Windows. apple could care less if you buy their TV, they want you to buy their services -- that's the whole reason the iPad mini exists.
Actually, a better analogy might be that it's like the Mac Mini. If Apple get;s seriously into the TV game, and offers an Apple TV that is an actual TV and a box like the current Apple TV, there's really no reason to expect that the functionality offered would be different on the two. Just like the functionality on the iMac and Mac Mini are the same, it's reasonable to expect that so would similar variations on Apple TV be.
Everyone's whining about hardware, no one's talking about content.
It's just the same old frigging TV box unless there's a service designed specifically for it.
I have to agree. It's not the hardware that is the issue, its the content -- quality, timing, pricing etc. if Apple wants to change this world it will have to change things like HBO holding content for a year after the season ends, the crazy pricing, lack of subtitles and alt audio, iTunes Extras not working on devices, seasons missing on shows and so on.
A package of those changes combined with a new STB with more room for streaming, more direct subscription option apps for sports (and not geo restricted) AND a new display that is not just TV but 3D capable (even if just for passive non live feed 3D) as well as working with your computers would be awesome but just the first or first two would majorly change TV. And the place of the TV set no matter who makes it.
I think Apple is moving to redefine the television from THE entertainment hub to just another piece of the game, just like their Post PC movement getting folks away from the desk. I think Apple wants the ebb and flow of games, movies etc to move around from TV to device to computer etc. to do things like have social apps on your iPad and be able to Facebook while you watch if you so desire, or learn more during that Discovery show etc. imagine watching some History Channel show and you hear something you want to remember and you can 'bookmark' it in a companion ipad app while watching. Perhaps even add notes, see links to more info or go back and watch that bit again later on your computer via their website or such. THAT, I think is ultimate goal with everything. No divisions, everything flows in and out from thing to thing.
The only way that Apple is coming out with an actual "TV set" (and by the way, they're not), is if it is simply the next iteration (or replacement) of the iMac.
Wrong line up. It would be the next Cinema Display, not iMac. And the only 'Apple TV' part included would be perhaps being able to Airplay without needing the ATV box. Otherwise you pair it will your ATV box, blu-ray etc.
In my view, the main point of a "whole" TV would be to be able to offer a simple user interface with a small and simple remote instead of the multiple remotes and configurations that people are still tolerating.
They don't need to build a full TV for that. Your choice of screens, the box and an iOS device can do all that in spades
At the very least, I would hope that Apple goes beyond this crappy 1980's idea that to get decent sound quality you have to have a separate amplifier, 5 speakers cluttering up your living room and all the associated tangle of wires leading from each to each.
AirPlay gets rid of the wires. Apple might even be smart enough to put dual speakers in their revamped Cinema Display with some fancy software system in the Display, set box whatever that detects additional speakers and distributes channels appropriately whether wired or AP. So rather than superseding my built in 2.0 sound when I attach a 2.1 set up, I end up with a 4.1 system. Make those 'stupid, stuck in the 80s' types thrilled. Especially if the content off the store has the audio channels to support such things (and at the prices some items have it should have tracks for it along with the standard 2.0, alt language etc)
Here are the three choices Apple can make. They can do any one or combination.
1. Set top box a la the existing Apple TV, but with more capabilities. Maybe two different models. Adding DVR capabilities, etc. They may just keep the existing architecture with slight modifications for a specific market.
This is the only one that is remotely close to Apple Style as the others put too much control in other parties hands or are basically a computer.
But there would be no DVR. The store is your DVR. Up the quality, improve pricing and shorten the wait. Imagine, for example, being able to buy a season pass for a show at $20, stream it in 720p at the same time as local OTA airing and then starting the next day you can stream or download at up to 1080p just as you can now. That is plenty for most folks. There could even perhaps be the ability to auto create a reminder when there's a new episode airing that night.
Obviously they would have to use iOS software on the Apple version of the TV but the but the physical Loewe designs are nice. Loewe designs are right in line with existing Apple product designs. The Loewe audio designs don't look shabby either.
You keep calling these "designs." My point is that this is just "styling" and not a design at all.
How are these products any different at all from any TV you can get at any department store other than the slick styling? They aren't.
My contention is that if Apple enters the TV market and all they have to offer is some "cool styling," then they not only aren't really doing anything at all, it's probably an indication that Apple is now "over" and has become Sony. An Apple TV has to be more than just a new cool remote that uses Siri (really unlikely IMO but everyone keeps saying it).
Imagine if Apple only had the shows the day after they aired and at a cost per episode. .
If that was at a good quality, low price, and it was day after it airs in any country, many folks could call that a win. And it has a way bettered potential to reduce casual downloading torrents etc than all the threatening letters and lawsuits the Studios pull.
I watch TV my 2 eyes. How do you? How can Apple change that? Roku has a unified search that will look for a query in Netflix, Hulu Plus and Amazon. People aren't going to buy TV and then wait for content deals like with the iPod.
That's a very logical argument. And one that Apple would likely consider.
Which is why it is more likely that IF Apple were making some kind of TV/large size display they would start with just the little box while improving content. Then when that is primed and hyped Tim would be able to say something like 'we have all this content in the iTunes stores and customers are going crazy downloading it to their computers, mobiles devices and so on. But imagine how much better it would be if you had a display created to the best way to view all this terrific content and work smoothly with all the pieces of your digital world. And here it is.' And then of course pull a one more thing with something crazy like Pixar releasing 3D files in iTunes.
That's a very logical argument. And one that Apple would likely consider.
Which is why it is more likely that IF Apple were making some kind of TV/large size display they would start with just the little box while improving content. Then when that is primed and hyped Tim would be able to say something like 'we have all this content in the iTunes stores and customers are going crazy downloading it to their computers, mobiles devices and so on. But imagine how much better it would be if you had a display created to the best way to view all this terrific content and work smoothly with all the pieces of your digital world. And here it is.' And then of course pull a one more thing with something crazy like Pixar releasing 3D files in iTunes.
There are so many pieces that need to be analyzed for this market.
Television Set - Essentially a monitor with a TV tuner and HDMI built in. Apple can bring a much better factory calibration and classier look to the set. The former is very important while the later probably isn't going to improve much or be a hug factor to most people.
Content - This is where the cable and sat companies have Kung Fu grip. They buy the content in bulk and then distribute it in packages. A la carte is more expensive per show/episode (and I doubt that will ever change). If you watch more content you might think that Apple is better but it will end up costing you more. That's a deterrent.
Digibox - This is how a lot of Americans get their content. This is also the UI they use with their TV. This is where I feel Apple can really make the biggest impact to how we access our content.
It really makes no sense for Apple to make a TV that has a great UI that we rarely access because we're stuck using the digibox's UI for content. The only caveat i that you wouldn't have to switch inputs on the TV if Apple made a TV, it would just be an overlay of the moded Apple TV UI, but that also goes for Apple making a digibox that could connect to content from you cable/sat company, except that it would be more integrated and surely cleaner, smoother, and more intuitive than what we currently see on the market.
If Apple makes the TV the way Ireland wants it you get to hook up speakers but no Blu-ray player (or anything else that connects via HDMI). This seems like a complete fail to me because Blu-ray is and will be the de facto way to watch the best quality content in your HEC. It's not right for a "PC" but it is for your HEC. I'm sure Steve Jobs watched Pixar movies on Blu-ray at home with his family. If you make a set that alienates that segment of users that want "the best" you basically alienate a larger majority. IOW, the Venn diagram would have a lot of overlap.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
It really doesn't.
Well, there is that, but, using that logic we'd have to add a helluva lot of items to that list that don't involve water and food.
Oh, I'd love to provide feedback, just show me how to navigate out of the forums section via that rip-off chrome button. Apparently, it puts you in an endless loop back to forums.appleinsider.com. Without having to type he main URL mind you.
"- SILENT EVERYONE, I'm gonna talk to the TV!"
For manoeuvring the tv for content, volume etc something fool proof is needed that can be controlled when sofa is full of chattering people. I think (hope?) "cracked the code for building a TV" is something else than Siri integration.
Plus, bringing Siri to all languages of the world is too huge a task. World leading languages like English and German will be prioritised and work better than small languages like I dunno... Dutch? Belgian? Swedish? Czech?
When I use Siri on my phone anything that is playing is paused. I could see that happening with the Apple TV audio out or just reducing the sound to a level that won't affect Siri. I certainly use Siri around other people talking and other loud noises and it does fine.
I wouldn't expect the mic to be in the Apple TV device, but in the remote control itself or in the iDevice if that is what you are using to interface with your TV. What Siri as an extra way to dictate a simple sentence that would result in a complex left, right, up, down, and enter button selection on a remote is really child's play compared to what we've gotten from it so far on the iPhone.
As for languages, this is something that will take a lot of time to work out for all speech-to-text systems. It's not just languages either, but dialects, regional phraseology, speech impediments, etc. What Siri as an extra way to dictate a simple sentence that would result in a complex left, right, up, down, and enter button selection on a remote is really child's play compared to what we've gotten from it so far on the iPhone.
I think the bigger hurdle is not that a device in your hand can't pick up what you are saying when you speak into it but for FaceTime on a TV that can tell where the faces are and zoom/center on those faces for the receiver when that person is talking.
I use Siri whilst watching TV and it's fine. I use Siri at night and it's fine. You've created straw man arguments to say that Siri can't be useful. Just because you don't use Siri doesn't mean Siri isn't useful.
So I could not use an Apple TV with my Home Cinema amp that requires just one HDMI on the TV?
I'm not taking a position either for or against this rumor, but your statement is just plain wrong.
What if Apple introduced a full television which had the internals of an Apple TV inside? It would be able to run iOS and you could connect to the App Store and buy and use apps. It's not difficult at all to imagine things outside of what they've done in the past.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
I'm not taking a position either for or against this rumor, but your statement is just plain wrong.
What if Apple introduced a full television which had the internals of an Apple TV inside? It would be able to run iOS and you could connect to the App Store and buy and use apps. It's not difficult at all to imagine things outside of what they've done in the past.
FWIW there's already HDTV's running competitors OS's (Lenovo using Android is one example) and offering mobile apps optimized for HDTV. It's not a unique idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128
Why do you keep saying [the box won't have an app store]? I can't imagine anything further from reality. Apple is selling its ecosystem. The box would be offered specifically for mostly non-Apple customers who want their TV solution. What better way to introduce them to their ecosystem? It's like putting iTunes on Windows. apple could care less if you buy their TV, they want you to buy their services -- that's the whole reason the iPad mini exists.
Actually, a better analogy might be that it's like the Mac Mini. If Apple get;s seriously into the TV game, and offers an Apple TV that is an actual TV and a box like the current Apple TV, there's really no reason to expect that the functionality offered would be different on the two. Just like the functionality on the iMac and Mac Mini are the same, it's reasonable to expect that so would similar variations on Apple TV be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Why doesn't it have it now?
Not really an argument.
I have to agree. It's not the hardware that is the issue, its the content -- quality, timing, pricing etc. if Apple wants to change this world it will have to change things like HBO holding content for a year after the season ends, the crazy pricing, lack of subtitles and alt audio, iTunes Extras not working on devices, seasons missing on shows and so on.
A package of those changes combined with a new STB with more room for streaming, more direct subscription option apps for sports (and not geo restricted) AND a new display that is not just TV but 3D capable (even if just for passive non live feed 3D) as well as working with your computers would be awesome but just the first or first two would majorly change TV. And the place of the TV set no matter who makes it.
I think Apple is moving to redefine the television from THE entertainment hub to just another piece of the game, just like their Post PC movement getting folks away from the desk. I think Apple wants the ebb and flow of games, movies etc to move around from TV to device to computer etc. to do things like have social apps on your iPad and be able to Facebook while you watch if you so desire, or learn more during that Discovery show etc. imagine watching some History Channel show and you hear something you want to remember and you can 'bookmark' it in a companion ipad app while watching. Perhaps even add notes, see links to more info or go back and watch that bit again later on your computer via their website or such. THAT, I think is ultimate goal with everything. No divisions, everything flows in and out from thing to thing.
Wrong line up. It would be the next Cinema Display, not iMac. And the only 'Apple TV' part included would be perhaps being able to Airplay without needing the ATV box. Otherwise you pair it will your ATV box, blu-ray etc.
They don't need to build a full TV for that. Your choice of screens, the box and an iOS device can do all that in spades
AirPlay gets rid of the wires. Apple might even be smart enough to put dual speakers in their revamped Cinema Display with some fancy software system in the Display, set box whatever that detects additional speakers and distributes channels appropriately whether wired or AP. So rather than superseding my built in 2.0 sound when I attach a 2.1 set up, I end up with a 4.1 system. Make those 'stupid, stuck in the 80s' types thrilled. Especially if the content off the store has the audio channels to support such things (and at the prices some items have it should have tracks for it along with the standard 2.0, alt language etc)
This is the only one that is remotely close to Apple Style as the others put too much control in other parties hands or are basically a computer.
But there would be no DVR. The store is your DVR. Up the quality, improve pricing and shorten the wait. Imagine, for example, being able to buy a season pass for a show at $20, stream it in 720p at the same time as local OTA airing and then starting the next day you can stream or download at up to 1080p just as you can now. That is plenty for most folks. There could even perhaps be the ability to auto create a reminder when there's a new episode airing that night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007
Obviously they would have to use iOS software on the Apple version of the TV but the but the physical Loewe designs are nice. Loewe designs are right in line with existing Apple product designs. The Loewe audio designs don't look shabby either.
http://www.loewe.tv/int
Time will tell.
You keep calling these "designs." My point is that this is just "styling" and not a design at all.
How are these products any different at all from any TV you can get at any department store other than the slick styling? They aren't.
My contention is that if Apple enters the TV market and all they have to offer is some "cool styling," then they not only aren't really doing anything at all, it's probably an indication that Apple is now "over" and has become Sony. An Apple TV has to be more than just a new cool remote that uses Siri (really unlikely IMO but everyone keeps saying it).
If that was at a good quality, low price, and it was day after it airs in any country, many folks could call that a win. And it has a way bettered potential to reduce casual downloading torrents etc than all the threatening letters and lawsuits the Studios pull.
That's a very logical argument. And one that Apple would likely consider.
Which is why it is more likely that IF Apple were making some kind of TV/large size display they would start with just the little box while improving content. Then when that is primed and hyped Tim would be able to say something like 'we have all this content in the iTunes stores and customers are going crazy downloading it to their computers, mobiles devices and so on. But imagine how much better it would be if you had a display created to the best way to view all this terrific content and work smoothly with all the pieces of your digital world. And here it is.' And then of course pull a one more thing with something crazy like Pixar releasing 3D files in iTunes.
There are so many pieces that need to be analyzed for this market.
It really makes no sense for Apple to make a TV that has a great UI that we rarely access because we're stuck using the digibox's UI for content. The only caveat i that you wouldn't have to switch inputs on the TV if Apple made a TV, it would just be an overlay of the moded Apple TV UI, but that also goes for Apple making a digibox that could connect to content from you cable/sat company, except that it would be more integrated and surely cleaner, smoother, and more intuitive than what we currently see on the market.
If Apple makes the TV the way Ireland wants it you get to hook up speakers but no Blu-ray player (or anything else that connects via HDMI). This seems like a complete fail to me because Blu-ray is and will be the de facto way to watch the best quality content in your HEC. It's not right for a "PC" but it is for your HEC. I'm sure Steve Jobs watched Pixar movies on Blu-ray at home with his family. If you make a set that alienates that segment of users that want "the best" you basically alienate a larger majority. IOW, the Venn diagram would have a lot of overlap.