I captured a screenshot and it looks like it is 20:9, off by 50:0 pixels in order to come at 21:9 - so I think you're right. 2560*1080 = 19:8. For an AR of 21:9 it should be 2520*1080 but now I'm fucking ants (Dutch equivalent to splitting hairs).
This is one of the sites I've used for years to make easy work of calculations. They have CinemaScope as 2:35 and 2560x0180 as 2:37.
PS: 'I'm fucking ants'? I love it! Idioms such odd phrases that usually have no good way or being explained, as I'm sure you know from learning English as a second language. I'm sure I'll be fascinated with language until het loodje leggen.
LOL, is truth. Though, if they do make a TV, their biggest innovation will be getting all the parts of the puzzle to work together, i.e. their biggest innovation will be making it all look so simple.
It doesn't. It's all speculation. One of the reasons why the TV market sucks is because a lot of people are waiting for Apple to release an actually line of Smart TVs. And maybe just the pent up demand being built is enough to through off the TV market. Right now, Plasma is being phased out, and Sharp's new iGZO technology is going to be released next month at CES and that's supposed to be the replacement for what is currently on the market since it can go to higher resolution, requires less power, etc.
Wow, you really believe that the TV market sucks because everyone is waiting for an aPple TV. I didn't know the brainwashing had gotten that bad. I guess you'd better get in line now for when this phantom TV comes out next fall since there will be 50 million people in line waiting for it.
...Apple might be able to get away with smaller files — using the same codec, mind you, as H.265 isn't ready...
It's funny how a throwaway comment in a post can be the most insightful thing in the thread.
Wikipedia says that the Final Draft of the HEVC [H.265] International Standard will be ratified in January 2013.
Is there any doubt that Apple's going to be first out of the gate with this?
Isn't this likely the primary reason they've forgone the lucrative Christmas season?
The bullet-point feature guesses on the previous page didn't even mention H.265. I'm going to go not-so-far-out on a limb and predict that H.265 + new Apple Interface will be the primary selling points for the new Apple TV.
Wikipedia says that the Final Draft of the HEVC [H.265] International Standard will be ratified in January 2013.
'Scuse me, I need to go drink something so I can spit it out in surprise.
Is there any doubt that Apple's going to be first out of the gate with this?
Yes. They were first with 802.11n but are somewhat lagging behind with 802.11ac.
And with the recent upheaval to iTunes, I imagine they'll be focused on fixing and changing what's already there rather than adding more new features right away. Never mind that the entire iTunes Store will* have to be converted to it before they can support it.
I actually believe HandBrake will be first to support it, even before there are any players in existence that can play the files it creates.
*I say "will"; they won't have to. But the benefits of doing so make it ludicrous to think that they wouldn't.
It's funny how a throwaway comment in a post can be the most insightful thing in the thread.
Wikipedia says that the Final Draft of the HEVC [H.265] International Standard will be ratified in January 2013.
Is there any doubt that Apple's going to be first out of the gate with this?
Isn't this likely the primary reason they've forgone the lucrative Christmas season?
The bullet-point feature guesses on the previous page didn't even mention H.265. I'm going to go not-so-far-out on a limb and predict that H.265 + new Apple Interface will be the primary selling points for the new Apple TV.
'Scuse me, I need to go drink something so I can spit it out in surprise.
Yes. They were first with 802.11n but are somewhat lagging behind with 802.11ac.
And with the recent upheaval to iTunes, I imagine they'll be focused on fixing and changing what's already there rather than adding more new features right away. Never mind that the entire iTunes Store will* have to be converted to it before they can support it.
I actually believe HandBrake will be first to support it, even before there are any players in existence that can play the files it creates.
[SIZE=11px]*I say "will"; they won't have to. But the benefits of doing so make it ludicrous to think that they wouldn't.[/SIZE]
A couple things that come to mind are how wireless and codec standards differ. Once H.265 is completely ratified how long before we start seeing HW decoders appear in our devices? How long before it's viable for the iPhone?
Ballparking, I would say that it takes about 4x the processing power for that codec compared to what was available when H.264 HW decoders first arrived.
That said, this isn't an all-or-nothing situation. Apple could do what it did with HD content rentals/sales on iTS where they offered an SD version for devices that couldn't load the HD version, except on this case it's a different codec.
If they have an Apple HDTV that can grab 4K iTS files that aren't much bigger than current 1080p iTS files that might be more than enough draw for the time being. don't they already have some wonky rule where if you rent/ via the Apple TV it will not let you push it back to iTunes and to other devices, only to the Apple TV of you rent on the rent via some other device?
I'd say CES 2013 will be our best guess to see what the state of H.265 is in. If we see that at CES in devices in some fashion then I think it's in te table.
Ballparking, I would say that it takes about 4x the processing power for that codec compared to what was available when H.264 HW decoders first arrived.
That sounds about right, actually, from what I remember reading. Marvin would probably know better.
That said, this isn't an all-or-nothing situation. Apple could do what it did with HD content rentals/sales on iTS where they offered an SD version for devices that couldn't load the HD version, except on this case it's a different codec.
Right. I see Apple keeping their M4V versions around (of course) for all the computers that can't update to a version of iTunes that can play HEVC files. Those that can will by default have HEVC-coded files download from iTunes when they purchase stuff. There'll be a dropdown in preferences where you can switch between MP4 and HEVC (next to to the one that lets you pick resolution now, but offering an analogue in functionality to the one in the Import Settings button). The choosing would basically just be for people that have computers that can do HEVC but iDevices that can't.
Why did they hide the import settings stuff in its own box, anyway? I guess they assume people don't rip discs as much anymore.
That was from 2.5 years ago but still, 1000x slower is pretty slow and there's another experiment here from this month that suggests similar results for encoding - decoding should be real-time:
I think they'll be able to reuse a lot of the hardware accelerated video algorithms from H.264 but for higher complexity video encoding, it'll probably be very slow. It could be faster at achieving the same level of compression as H.264 but far slower to get double the compression.
Compression is all about removing redundant information so to compress more, they have to do a longer/broader search. I'm personally quite happy with H.264 as far as quality/size. If H.265 just speeds up the encoder at the same quality or allows a noticeable reduction in size for a reasonable compute time it's all good.
For broadcast content, they can of course spend more time on encoding but I think they'll have to do a lot better than what the experiments show to be practical. I don't think they'd bother implementing it though unless they had a plan to make it feasible in the next few years.
I see H.265 as H.264+1 rather than say MPEG-2 -> MPEG-4.
Not bad for HEVC but not 50% better and X264 encode need ~[B]10 sec[/B] and HM9.1 [B]746 sec[/B]"
That reference implementation can't have much optimization.
It's not clear that the real-time implementations are delivering half the bitrate though. From the PSNR improvements in the Vanguard codec, it seems like it will mainly offer slightly better quality at the same bitrate. The amount of quality improvement can be significant:
but they don't say how long it takes to get that level of improvement. There's some interesting comments in the video here:
Fully agree JeffDM, a really poor mockup I found. But still, the fact that it is different and a [I]viable[/I] better option than what we have today made me post it. I certainly do hope Apple will create a TV, but I am still 'weary' of the thought.
Thankfully, they always make me [I]get the picture[/I].
Fully agree JeffDM, a really poor mockup I found. But still, the fact that it is different and a viable better option than what we have today made me post it. I certainly do hope Apple will create a TV, but I am still 'weary' of the thought.
Thankfully, they always make me get the picture.
Maybe wary.
Siri can certainly make complicated tasks simpler, such as where you just say a name and it can give you a list and maybe point you where you last left off if it's the name of a series. Everything else might be refinements. There are other sources, but maybe make it more convenient, which Siri would be part of that puzzle.
Comments
This is one of the sites I've used for years to make easy work of calculations. They have CinemaScope as 2:35 and 2560x0180 as 2:37.
PS: 'I'm fucking ants'? I love it! Idioms such odd phrases that usually have no good way or being explained, as I'm sure you know from learning English as a second language. I'm sure I'll be fascinated with language until het loodje leggen.
Handy! I used Excel; not anymore though - thanks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodyy
You and everyone else don't know what you want. But as soon as you see it, you'll know then.
More like...as soon as Apple says you need it.......you will wonder how you ever lived without it....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland
LOL, is truth. Though, if they do make a TV, their biggest innovation will be getting all the parts of the puzzle to work together, i.e. their biggest innovation will be making it all look so simple.
Is not...
Originally Posted by JackylDog
Is not...
Surely you can do better than a schoolyard retort. In what way isn't it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank
It doesn't. It's all speculation. One of the reasons why the TV market sucks is because a lot of people are waiting for Apple to release an actually line of Smart TVs. And maybe just the pent up demand being built is enough to through off the TV market. Right now, Plasma is being phased out, and Sharp's new iGZO technology is going to be released next month at CES and that's supposed to be the replacement for what is currently on the market since it can go to higher resolution, requires less power, etc.
Wow, you really believe that the TV market sucks because everyone is waiting for an aPple TV. I didn't know the brainwashing had gotten that bad. I guess you'd better get in line now for when this phantom TV comes out next fall since there will be 50 million people in line waiting for it.
Originally Posted by JackylDog
Wow, you really believe that the TV market sucks because everyone is waiting for an aPple TV. I didn't know the brainwashing had gotten that bad.
And what brainwashing would that be? Just sounds like a silly idea, to me. What, you think Apple is actively saying the TV market sucks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
...Apple might be able to get away with smaller files — using the same codec, mind you, as H.265 isn't ready...
It's funny how a throwaway comment in a post can be the most insightful thing in the thread.
Wikipedia says that the Final Draft of the HEVC [H.265] International Standard will be ratified in January 2013.
Is there any doubt that Apple's going to be first out of the gate with this?
Isn't this likely the primary reason they've forgone the lucrative Christmas season?
The bullet-point feature guesses on the previous page didn't even mention H.265. I'm going to go not-so-far-out on a limb and predict that H.265 + new Apple Interface will be the primary selling points for the new Apple TV.
Originally Posted by Frank777
Wikipedia says that the Final Draft of the HEVC [H.265] International Standard will be ratified in January 2013.
'Scuse me, I need to go drink something so I can spit it out in surprise.
Is there any doubt that Apple's going to be first out of the gate with this?
Yes. They were first with 802.11n but are somewhat lagging behind with 802.11ac.
And with the recent upheaval to iTunes, I imagine they'll be focused on fixing and changing what's already there rather than adding more new features right away. Never mind that the entire iTunes Store will* have to be converted to it before they can support it.
I actually believe HandBrake will be first to support it, even before there are any players in existence that can play the files it creates.
*I say "will"; they won't have to. But the benefits of doing so make it ludicrous to think that they wouldn't.
A couple things that come to mind are how wireless and codec standards differ. Once H.265 is completely ratified how long before we start seeing HW decoders appear in our devices? How long before it's viable for the iPhone?
Ballparking, I would say that it takes about 4x the processing power for that codec compared to what was available when H.264 HW decoders first arrived.
That said, this isn't an all-or-nothing situation. Apple could do what it did with HD content rentals/sales on iTS where they offered an SD version for devices that couldn't load the HD version, except on this case it's a different codec.
If they have an Apple HDTV that can grab 4K iTS files that aren't much bigger than current 1080p iTS files that might be more than enough draw for the time being. don't they already have some wonky rule where if you rent/ via the Apple TV it will not let you push it back to iTunes and to other devices, only to the Apple TV of you rent on the rent via some other device?
I'd say CES 2013 will be our best guess to see what the state of H.265 is in. If we see that at CES in devices in some fashion then I think it's in te table.
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Ballparking, I would say that it takes about 4x the processing power for that codec compared to what was available when H.264 HW decoders first arrived.
That sounds about right, actually, from what I remember reading. Marvin would probably know better.
That said, this isn't an all-or-nothing situation. Apple could do what it did with HD content rentals/sales on iTS where they offered an SD version for devices that couldn't load the HD version, except on this case it's a different codec.
Right. I see Apple keeping their M4V versions around (of course) for all the computers that can't update to a version of iTunes that can play HEVC files. Those that can will by default have HEVC-coded files download from iTunes when they purchase stuff. There'll be a dropdown in preferences where you can switch between MP4 and HEVC (next to to the one that lets you pick resolution now, but offering an analogue in functionality to the one in the Import Settings button). The choosing would basically just be for people that have computers that can do HEVC but iDevices that can't.
Why did they hide the import settings stuff in its own box, anyway? I guess they assume people don't rip discs as much anymore.
Someone who definitely would know is an x264 developer:
http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/archives/360#more-360
That was from 2.5 years ago but still, 1000x slower is pretty slow and there's another experiment here from this month that suggests similar results for encoding - decoding should be real-time:
http://iphome.hhi.de/wiegand/assets/pdfs/2012_12_HEVC-Complexity.pdf
I think they'll be able to reuse a lot of the hardware accelerated video algorithms from H.264 but for higher complexity video encoding, it'll probably be very slow. It could be faster at achieving the same level of compression as H.264 but far slower to get double the compression.
Compression is all about removing redundant information so to compress more, they have to do a longer/broader search. I'm personally quite happy with H.264 as far as quality/size. If H.265 just speeds up the encoder at the same quality or allows a noticeable reduction in size for a reasonable compute time it's all good.
For broadcast content, they can of course spend more time on encoding but I think they'll have to do a lot better than what the experiments show to be practical. I don't think they'd bother implementing it though unless they had a plan to make it feasible in the next few years.
I see H.265 as H.264+1 rather than say MPEG-2 -> MPEG-4.
http://www.amazon.com/Tek-Pal-Simple-Remote-Control/dp/B000WNMB2U
[VIDEO]
http://www.rovicorp.com/company/news-center/pressreleases/1434_17072.htm
The ericsson implementation looks like enough evidence it can be done real-time as it's a live encoder:
http://www.digitaltveurope.net/27338/ericsson-launches-first-hevc-encoder-for-mobile/
Vanguard have one:
http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20120902005001/en
but the PSNR improvements here look conservative despite it being a logarithmic scale:
http://www.vsofts.com/markets/Data Sheet_HEVC_08.17.2012.pdf
ATEME has one that does 4K at 15Mbps:
http://itersnews.com/?p=12332
There's a reference encoder here that people can build and that may have been what people have been testing for performance:
http://codesequoia.wordpress.com/2012/11/04/make-your-first-hevc-stream/
There's a test here:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1604693
"psnr with MSU Video Quality Measurement Tool :
HEVC : AVG: 37.57242
X264 : AVG: 36.87016
Not bad for HEVC but not 50% better and X264 encode need ~[B]10 sec[/B] and HM9.1 [B]746 sec[/B]"
That reference implementation can't have much optimization.
It's not clear that the real-time implementations are delivering half the bitrate though. From the PSNR improvements in the Vanguard codec, it seems like it will mainly offer slightly better quality at the same bitrate. The amount of quality improvement can be significant:
but they don't say how long it takes to get that level of improvement. There's some interesting comments in the video here:
http://www.v-net.tv/swisscom-reveals-its-plans-for-hevc-on-classic-iptv/
It looks like a lot of people are gearing up for a January 2013 launch for production-ready codecs so perhaps this will be the focus of CES.
Walt thinks so:
http://allthingsd.com/20120828/samsungs-smart-tv-isnt-as-smart-as-it-thinks-it-is/
I think so, too
I'd rather have something like this:
I'm sure that only works for linear TV. You'd be SOL for anything that's non-linear, such as DVR, download or streaming.
If they do it, I sure hope that's in a corner, edge or a lower thirds, taking the whole screen is more than a bit much.
Thankfully, they always make me [I]get the picture[/I].
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie
But still, the fact that it is different and a viable better option than what we have today made me post it.
It's different, at least.
Maybe wary.
Siri can certainly make complicated tasks simpler, such as where you just say a name and it can give you a list and maybe point you where you last left off if it's the name of a series. Everything else might be refinements. There are other sources, but maybe make it more convenient, which Siri would be part of that puzzle.
Indeed, wary is the word I should have used.