That's a different ball of wax all together and not what the article is stating.
... but, yes, I have no problem with that.
I didn't phrase my comment well... sorry. I meant Apple might want to consider this as an answer to these silly large phones. Just offer an iPad mini with optional phone capability and they'd clean up IMHO.
I didn't phrase my comment well... sorry. I meant Apple might want to consider this as an answer to these silly large phones. Just offer an iPad mini with optional phone capability and they'd clean up IMHO.
Or not. that's stupid.
The mini is just a smaller iPad, nothing new there. A decent phablet-iPhone can easely create a third category. Read my previous post, please (if you want to understand my point of view).
When was the last time Apple followed any fashionable trend? For a while, competitors were busy making laptops with ever larger 18.4- and even 20-inch screens, but along comes Apple, terminating their own 17" laptop model.
I don't know either Michael, but i believe we are not talking about 4.2" devices. My point was 5" and more.
I believe that most people are "forgetting" that Apple could "easily" create a 5" iPhone that offers 2 to 3 times the speed of the galaxy note2, 2x the battery life than the note2, a much better screen, lighter thinner and great build quality (the best), 3x times the GPU power, better camera, etc etc etc.... AND:
- Provide the ecosystem to take advantage of it.
Such device has much more potential than anything on the market. Maybe not for the SMS/calls user, but for college, enterprise and businesses? That's 1 trillion dollars market cap right there.
What boggles my mind is the "easily" part... Apple isn't even taking a chance with it, despite 150billion $ airbag. Why? The f*cking press and keyboard warriors from both sides. I just can't believe that stupidity is preventing me to take advantage of better technology.
This is your 'car' analogy?
Sorry, you're now working your way back to the 'Car vs Truck' analogy, and you're asking for a truck that handles like a car.
Enterprise doesn't want a bigger phone (I sit in that space). Enterprise wants singular platform to manage. iOS is that.
Colleges don't want phones. iPad for them.
Business... other than some yet undefined road warrior, I see no $20Billion/year profit niche for a larger, faster, 'phone'.
What is missing is functionality. All of these want multi-participant collaboration (iChat AV meets FaceTime meets Webex)
All of these want integrated workspace (iCloud meets sharepoint meets iWork meets realtime document change control)
all of these want integration into their unique business processes, which means a decomposed, distributed, workflow management system for these processes.
I don't see anyone wanting a 4.8" screen as a 'must have' over a 4" or an 8" screen.
You speak of stupidity 'owning' a $150 Billion dollar airbag.
"You keep using that word. I don't think that word means what I think it means."
oversaturated pentile (=crap) with less PPI vs retina vs possible 1080p IGZO ------ Again, imagine the pleasure of using such screen for games, reading, consumption benefits, excel, cad viewing, etc. (read the ecosystem part before talking about interfaces and apps that would make such screen a pain to use).
For the record the Note 2 is not Pentile. I would agree it's rather oversaturated as are most of Samsung's AMOLEDs. In an effort to rid myself of Samsung crap, I had my IT dept swap my Galaxy Nexus they gave me (my iPhone 5 is my personal line) for the new HTC DNA which has the 5in 1080p (440ppi) LCD3 display about 2 weeks ago. That screen is an absolute dream to use. Colors are terrific, reading is sharp and exceptional. I see the screen size as a great benefit for easier map navigation, reading, and games (playing Pitfall for example side by side).
A friend of mine just got the Galaxy Note 2 and I have to say - I just love the size format!
All of a sudden, my iPhone 5 seems like some kind of MICRO phone.
I use my iPhone 5 nearly non stop but mostly for data and the extra size would be so much nicer! The Galaxy Note 2 not too big (bigger is better right?) but the most important thing is that it still -fits in my pocket- just fine and *THAT* is the important thing. The iPad Mini is just not pocketable.
The down side of the Galaxy is of course the software.
I am all for this size factor (and even though it is not likely that Apple will adopt this since they just released the Mini) I for one hope they do, sooner rather than later.
I would love that. I would ditch my iPhone in a second if I could just use the iPad mini for everything.
Possibly this is why things are the way they are, because I think a lot of folks would do the same if they had the opportunity.
I don't get this.
First I'm told that I'm a complete idiot for thinking that people actually use their phones as phones anymore.
And now if I speak out against the inclusion of telephony in a tablet, I'll definitely be called a complete idiot for thinking that anyone wouldn't want phone capability in their tablet.
This sort of crap doesn't make me more open to other people's ideas than I already am. It makes me ignore them entirely, writing them off as idiotic Microsoft-style "find out every conceivable use case, even the stupidest stuff you can think of, and build different products for every single one of them" ideas. It makes me think that I was right in the first place, or at least more right than the people wandering around in the fog, choosing any answer they want at will.
So why would people want their tablet to be a phone if:
1. They're not gonna be able to hold it like a phone
2. People "don't even use their smartphones as phones anymore anyway"
?
I get the whole "one device that does everything" vibe. What I don't get is why people think it's one device when in both situations it's two devices for which you have to account.
The iPads already have the ability to function as phones (microphones and speakers with 4G) ...
Not really. You can use an iPad as a "web phone" using a VoIP app, but that doesn't make it a phone. In fact it barely works in that configuration, and is far from being a useful phone replacement.
As for the "holding it up to your ear" argument ... it's a bit of a red herring. As you mention yourself, there are many other ways to answer a phone, some of which are more popular nowadays than the "original" (holding it up to your ear).
When I see someone using an iPhone on the train or the bus these days, about half the time the person is using the earbuds instead of holding the phone up to their ear and they hold the phone itself up to their mouth like it was an ice-cream sandwich bar and whisper into the microphone at the bottom. This is at least as popular as the "holding it up to your ear" crowd, at least among the under-30's anyway. I see a lot of folks in restaurants lying the iPHone on the table and using speakerphone also.
I think this is coming about because if you answer the phone with the earbuds in, or with a bluetooth earpiece, you end up walking down the street talking to thin air anyway. Whereas even five years ago you would be considered some kind of executive douchebag to use a bluetooth earpiece, now it's so common people have just gotten used to it. Once you get used to talking out loud on a phone call like that in public, then all kinds of options open up.
The idea that you have to talk on the phone by raising it up to your ear is rapidly becoming just another example of "old thinking" IMO.
Are you being obtuse on purpose? (I hope this is not offending, offending isn't my goal... I will explain myself)
Current big phones, tablets (besides the iPad) and similar gadgets (phablets) are useless trash (unless someone has special needs) and should be treated as such. An iPhone is 100 steps ahead of every single phone being sold. True.
But, a 5 inch iPhone? Are you blind?
Note 2 vs iphone vs 5 to 6" iPhone.
Battery
3000mA vs 1050 vs possible 3000mA too ----- The iphone has better battery life than the note on demanding tasks, now imagine what a 3000 mA battery will offer (read the screen part before talking about power consumption).
Screen
oversaturated pentile (=crap) with less PPI vs retina vs possible 1080p IGZO ------ Again, imagine the pleasure of using such screen for games, reading, consumption benefits, excel, cad viewing, etc. (read the ecosystem part before talking about interfaces and apps that would make such screen a pain to use).
Performance
Quadcore designed by monkeys + java + weak GPU + html apps vs a6 + cocoa + native apps vs a6 S + cocoa + native apps + possible ROGUE GPU ----- the iPhone 5 just trounces the note 2 on every metric related to performance. The difference is huge. Now imagine it overclocked and with Rogue.
Ecosystem
Apps that do not that advantage of any atribute vs native apps designed for it vs native apps designed for it ---- Again, you know what I mean here. Imagine new apps, new interfaces, new stuff that nobody saw coming with the iPhone and later the iPad. Apple also brings the tools for earth-shaking apps to be created.
Please, do not underestimate the potential of this device. It can be a much better gadget than everything sold today. It opens new doors. it would also be cheaper then the iPhone + iPad combo, while providing great profit and margins.
I think you're thinking I disagree with you on the rest of the iOS stuff... it may be a English vs Portugese implicit communication. and somehow you're thinking I'm anti-Apple. I'm not.
I am arguing the primary point. An Intermediate screen size does not define a untapped niche of untold riches for Apple to create yet another 300 SKUs (2 colors, 1-3 cell bands, 100 countries), that your same modifications can't provide in the current form factors.
I agree on the ecosystem, and in fact, extend it back to the cloud. What is really missing in the apple ecosystem is 'group management' (why can't ITMS know that my wife and I are part of a single organizational unit, that I'm a member of my work organization, and that I bowl with these 5 guys on Wednesday). That would be enabling.
As for display method, i agree, however, I don't see your argument opening up a whole new market.
As for battery, I disagree. the capacity of the battery is limiting the device, and increasing the size is not an adequate trade off. Weight also has to be considered. The Mini is a winner because battery capacity is now reached a point that 8" can be light enough to hold with one hand. Power storage (and possibly bio-charging) advancements will drive improvements of the phone, not the form factor, as weight is king in mobile computing, and battery drives weight.
You state that increasing the performance envelope of the iPhone platform would unleash possibilities not currently there. I would posit, we are not utilizing the current power curve effectively. I don't disagree that more power plus more GPU would unleash greater capabilities, but I would also posit that there are other gating factors (bandwidth) that would limit the value of more local compute.
You are assuming that there is some limitation of the XxY size of the screen that is limiting innovation between a 4" diag and an 8" diag, by piling on performance above what is already there, but you can't imagine what those innovations would be, and in another thread, you think this would be a 'killer app' for college and business. When in fact, the growth curve is in delivering less costly device to billions in 2nd and 3rd world countries, to elementary schools.
Finally, you are basically saying no one in Apple is looking at these possibilities. My guess is that they are, but the 'smart' move (you may consider it stupid), is to limit SKUs and form factors, until there is a dramatic risk (7" tablets establishing a price point under the umbrella), or dramatic technological breakthrough, (IGZO able to scale to square miles of glass per year for the same or lower price point as current displays).
I do welcome your thoughts here... it's clarifying that you are not looking at this as a 'I need 4.8" phone because I'm special' as many people on this board tend to respond.
First I'm told that I'm a complete idiot for thinking that people actually use their phones as phones anymore.
And now if I speak out against the inclusion of telephony in a tablet, I'll definitely be called a complete idiot for thinking that anyone wouldn't want phone capability in their tablet.
This sort of crap doesn't make me more open to other people's ideas than I already am. It makes me ignore them entirely, writing them off as idiotic Microsoft-style "find out every conceivable use case, even the stupidest stuff you can think of, and build different products for every single one of them" ideas. It makes me think that I was right in the first place, or at least more right than the people wandering around in the fog, choosing any answer they want at will.
So why would people want their tablet to be a phone if:
1. They're not gonna be able to hold it like a phone
2. People "don't even use their smartphones as phones anymore anyway"
?
I get the whole "one device that does everything" vibe. What I don't get is why people think it's one device when in both situations it's two devices for which you have to account.
I don't know if this is personal to me or if you are just railing at the whole world here, but I don't get your remarks either.
I was just trying to get across my personal enthusiasm for the idea of a blended device. My reasoning on the phone in the tablet thing is that (like a lot of people nowadays) I don't get many personal phone calls. I literally get one every month or two. All I'm saying is that I would be okay with using just the iPad (because of the monetary huge savings), and using speaker phone for the occasional time I get a call.
Android makes big screens (more than 4.0 or 4.2) useless. iOS doesn't.
...
Sorry, GS3 is 4.8 and almost all my apps show much more than their equivalent in iphone 4 (even the home screen, I have 7x5 + the dock). I agree the tablets are not catching up but the bigger phones are good. I don't know about phablets though.
For the record the Note 2 is not Pentile. I would agree it's rather oversaturated as are most of Samsung's AMOLEDs. In an effort to rid myself of Samsung crap, I had my IT dept swap my Galaxy Nexus they gave me (my iPhone 5 is my personal line) for the new HTC DNA which has the 5in 1080p (440ppi) LCD3 display about 2 weeks ago. That screen is an absolute dream to use. Colors are terrific, reading is sharp and exceptional. I see the screen size as a great benefit for easier map navigation, reading, and games (playing Pitfall for example side by side).
True. Sorry for that mistake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff
This is your 'car' analogy?
Sorry, you're now working your way back to the 'Car vs Truck' analogy, and you're asking for a truck that handles like a car.
Enterprise doesn't want a bigger phone (I sit in that space). Enterprise wants singular platform to manage. iOS is that.
Colleges don't want phones. iPad for them.
Business... other than some yet undefined road warrior, I see no $20Billion/year profit niche for a larger, faster, 'phone'.
What is missing is functionality. All of these want multi-participant collaboration (iChat AV meets FaceTime meets Webex)
All of these want integrated workspace (iCloud meets sharepoint meets iWork meets realtime document change control)
all of these want integration into their unique business processes, which means a decomposed, distributed, workflow management system for these processes.
I don't see anyone wanting a 4.8" screen as a 'must have' over a 4" or an 8" screen.
You speak of stupidity 'owning' a $150 Billion dollar airbag.
"You keep using that word. I don't think that word means what I think it means."
This isn't about car's analogies.
I addressed my points on my earlier post, and you haven't provided "evidence" of nothing.
First of all, you are completely ignoring the "new" and "unknown factor", just like people did with the first iPhone and iPad. (the new type of app interface, for example).
You don't see anyone wanting a phone bigger than 4.5"? Are you blind? 80 million people, per quarter, are willing to have inferior phones on every single department JUST to have a screen that's 4.5"+ (Razr, S3, note, One, Xperia, you name it) even if they pay almost the same. How many millions would want a bigger screen (bigger than 4") but aren't willing willing to lose performance/build quality/ecosystem for it so they keep buying iPhones? 5 million per quarter? 10? That's almost 100 million potential buyers for this "iPhoneX" each quarter!!! Are you insane?
You are just too limited. You see the iPhoneX just as a bigger phone, just like some people saw the iPad as a big iPod.
Learn... It's much more than that.
For 100 million people per quarter, this isn't a big "iPhone", it's "the best computer one can buy, that's also a phone". Samsung and others make "huge phones" that lose to the iPhone on every metric, so they are not worth it for anyone with at least two brain cells working properly, but an iPhone X? THINK!
Again, please, read my post about the Note vs iPhone vs iPhoneX.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
This is false. They are selling, yes. There is interest in the product, yes. But to say they are "selling like hotcakes" is not really true at all.
I think you are mistaking your own personal enthusiasm for a larger consumer interest here.
Every 4.5+ phone is a phablet, and they are Apple's competition right now. In case you haven't noticed, together they sell a lot and if you ask people "why not the superior iPhone?", the first point will be about screen size. Isn't the 4.7" one X a phablet? wasn't the original note a phablet? isn't the s3 a phablet? etc. Please, let's not let stupid ads define a name for this size category for us and decide the "right" dimension for what's a tablet or "just" a huge phone.
Not really. You can use an iPad as a "web phone" using a VoIP app, but that doesn't make it a phone. In fact it barely works in that configuration, and is far from being a useful phone replacement.
As for the "holding it up to your ear" argument ... it's a bit of a red herring. As you mention yourself, there are many other ways to answer a phone, some of which are more popular nowadays than the "original" (holding it up to your ear).
When I see someone using an iPhone on the train or the bus these days, about half the time the person is using the earbuds instead of holding the phone up to their ear and they hold the phone itself up to their mouth like it was an ice-cream sandwich bar and whisper into the microphone at the bottom. This is at least as popular as the "holding it up to your ear" crowd, at least among the under-30's anyway. I see a lot of folks in restaurants lying the iPHone on the table and using speakerphone also.
I think this is coming about because if you answer the phone with the earbuds in, or with a bluetooth earpiece, you end up walking down the street talking to thin air anyway. Whereas even five years ago you would be considered some kind of executive douchebag to use a bluetooth earpiece, now it's so common people have just gotten used to it. Once you get used to talking out loud on a phone call like that in public, then all kinds of options open up.
The idea that you have to talk on the phone by raising it up to your ear is rapidly becoming just another example of "old thinking" IMO.
Piling on.... old thinking to me is using a phone in a single modality (audio only). iPhone's are a multi-modal device. Talk and surf (not while walking, at least not well) in a connected world is the norm.
iPads are perfectly capable of multi-modal phone calls. The limiting factor now appears to be carriers, and/or the ubuiquity of multiMbit/sec WiFi.
So basically Apple needs to make a larger iPhone because everyone else is doing it and nervous Nellie investors are worried that Apple will lose market share if they don't. So I guess they don't want Apple to innovate but just copy what everyone else is doing. :rolleyes:
These next couple weeks are going to be touch for Apple stock. Heck its already down 16+ these past two days while Google is way up. All the buzz will be around CES and we'll get conflicting reports on earnings - some analysts will claim Apple's going to have a great quarter others will say they aren't.
Comments
I didn't phrase my comment well... sorry. I meant Apple might want to consider this as an answer to these silly large phones. Just offer an iPad mini with optional phone capability and they'd clean up IMHO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
I didn't phrase my comment well... sorry. I meant Apple might want to consider this as an answer to these silly large phones. Just offer an iPad mini with optional phone capability and they'd clean up IMHO.
Or not. that's stupid.
The mini is just a smaller iPad, nothing new there. A decent phablet-iPhone can easely create a third category. Read my previous post, please (if you want to understand my point of view).
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
I don't know either Michael, but i believe we are not talking about 4.2" devices. My point was 5" and more.
I believe that most people are "forgetting" that Apple could "easily" create a 5" iPhone that offers 2 to 3 times the speed of the galaxy note2, 2x the battery life than the note2, a much better screen, lighter thinner and great build quality (the best), 3x times the GPU power, better camera, etc etc etc.... AND:
- Provide the ecosystem to take advantage of it.
Such device has much more potential than anything on the market. Maybe not for the SMS/calls user, but for college, enterprise and businesses? That's 1 trillion dollars market cap right there.
What boggles my mind is the "easily" part... Apple isn't even taking a chance with it, despite 150billion $ airbag. Why? The f*cking press and keyboard warriors from both sides. I just can't believe that stupidity is preventing me to take advantage of better technology.
This is your 'car' analogy?
Sorry, you're now working your way back to the 'Car vs Truck' analogy, and you're asking for a truck that handles like a car.
Enterprise doesn't want a bigger phone (I sit in that space). Enterprise wants singular platform to manage. iOS is that.
Colleges don't want phones. iPad for them.
Business... other than some yet undefined road warrior, I see no $20Billion/year profit niche for a larger, faster, 'phone'.
What is missing is functionality. All of these want multi-participant collaboration (iChat AV meets FaceTime meets Webex)
All of these want integrated workspace (iCloud meets sharepoint meets iWork meets realtime document change control)
all of these want integration into their unique business processes, which means a decomposed, distributed, workflow management system for these processes.
I don't see anyone wanting a 4.8" screen as a 'must have' over a 4" or an 8" screen.
You speak of stupidity 'owning' a $150 Billion dollar airbag.
"You keep using that word. I don't think that word means what I think it means."
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
oversaturated pentile (=crap) with less PPI vs retina vs possible 1080p IGZO ------ Again, imagine the pleasure of using such screen for games, reading, consumption benefits, excel, cad viewing, etc. (read the ecosystem part before talking about interfaces and apps that would make such screen a pain to use).
For the record the Note 2 is not Pentile. I would agree it's rather oversaturated as are most of Samsung's AMOLEDs. In an effort to rid myself of Samsung crap, I had my IT dept swap my Galaxy Nexus they gave me (my iPhone 5 is my personal line) for the new HTC DNA which has the 5in 1080p (440ppi) LCD3 display about 2 weeks ago. That screen is an absolute dream to use. Colors are terrific, reading is sharp and exceptional. I see the screen size as a great benefit for easier map navigation, reading, and games (playing Pitfall for example side by side).
That would be as embarrassing as Eric Schmidt's recent attempt to self-appointment himself as US ambassador to North Korea.
Not a chance.
Samsung has hired the Khardasian's to be the spokespersons for their new "phablets".
Because they had pants pockets big enough to hold a "phablet"
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
I don't see a problem with adding phone capability to iPads as an option.
I would love that. I would ditch my iPhone in a second if I could just use the iPad mini for everything.
Possibly this is why things are the way they are, because I think a lot of folks would do the same if they had the opportunity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
No. Phablets are selling like hotcakes ...
This is false. They are selling, yes. There is interest in the product, yes. But to say they are "selling like hotcakes" is not really true at all.
I think you are mistaking your own personal enthusiasm for a larger consumer interest here.
All of a sudden, my iPhone 5 seems like some kind of MICRO phone.
I use my iPhone 5 nearly non stop but mostly for data and the extra size would be so much nicer! The Galaxy Note 2 not too big (bigger is better right?) but the most important thing is that it still -fits in my pocket- just fine and *THAT* is the important thing. The iPad Mini is just not pocketable.
The down side of the Galaxy is of course the software.
I am all for this size factor (and even though it is not likely that Apple will adopt this since they just released the Mini) I for one hope they do, sooner rather than later.
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
I would love that. I would ditch my iPhone in a second if I could just use the iPad mini for everything.
Possibly this is why things are the way they are, because I think a lot of folks would do the same if they had the opportunity.
I don't get this.
First I'm told that I'm a complete idiot for thinking that people actually use their phones as phones anymore.
And now if I speak out against the inclusion of telephony in a tablet, I'll definitely be called a complete idiot for thinking that anyone wouldn't want phone capability in their tablet.
This sort of crap doesn't make me more open to other people's ideas than I already am. It makes me ignore them entirely, writing them off as idiotic Microsoft-style "find out every conceivable use case, even the stupidest stuff you can think of, and build different products for every single one of them" ideas. It makes me think that I was right in the first place, or at least more right than the people wandering around in the fog, choosing any answer they want at will.
So why would people want their tablet to be a phone if:
1. They're not gonna be able to hold it like a phone
2. People "don't even use their smartphones as phones anymore anyway"
?
I get the whole "one device that does everything" vibe. What I don't get is why people think it's one device when in both situations it's two devices for which you have to account.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob53
The iPads already have the ability to function as phones (microphones and speakers with 4G) ...
Not really. You can use an iPad as a "web phone" using a VoIP app, but that doesn't make it a phone. In fact it barely works in that configuration, and is far from being a useful phone replacement.
As for the "holding it up to your ear" argument ... it's a bit of a red herring. As you mention yourself, there are many other ways to answer a phone, some of which are more popular nowadays than the "original" (holding it up to your ear).
When I see someone using an iPhone on the train or the bus these days, about half the time the person is using the earbuds instead of holding the phone up to their ear and they hold the phone itself up to their mouth like it was an ice-cream sandwich bar and whisper into the microphone at the bottom. This is at least as popular as the "holding it up to your ear" crowd, at least among the under-30's anyway. I see a lot of folks in restaurants lying the iPHone on the table and using speakerphone also.
I think this is coming about because if you answer the phone with the earbuds in, or with a bluetooth earpiece, you end up walking down the street talking to thin air anyway. Whereas even five years ago you would be considered some kind of executive douchebag to use a bluetooth earpiece, now it's so common people have just gotten used to it. Once you get used to talking out loud on a phone call like that in public, then all kinds of options open up.
The idea that you have to talk on the phone by raising it up to your ear is rapidly becoming just another example of "old thinking" IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
Are you being obtuse on purpose? (I hope this is not offending, offending isn't my goal... I will explain myself)
Current big phones, tablets (besides the iPad) and similar gadgets (phablets) are useless trash (unless someone has special needs) and should be treated as such. An iPhone is 100 steps ahead of every single phone being sold. True.
But, a 5 inch iPhone? Are you blind?
Note 2 vs iphone vs 5 to 6" iPhone.
Battery
3000mA vs 1050 vs possible 3000mA too ----- The iphone has better battery life than the note on demanding tasks, now imagine what a 3000 mA battery will offer (read the screen part before talking about power consumption).
Screen
oversaturated pentile (=crap) with less PPI vs retina vs possible 1080p IGZO ------ Again, imagine the pleasure of using such screen for games, reading, consumption benefits, excel, cad viewing, etc. (read the ecosystem part before talking about interfaces and apps that would make such screen a pain to use).
Performance
Quadcore designed by monkeys + java + weak GPU + html apps vs a6 + cocoa + native apps vs a6 S + cocoa + native apps + possible ROGUE GPU ----- the iPhone 5 just trounces the note 2 on every metric related to performance. The difference is huge. Now imagine it overclocked and with Rogue.
Ecosystem
Apps that do not that advantage of any atribute vs native apps designed for it vs native apps designed for it ---- Again, you know what I mean here. Imagine new apps, new interfaces, new stuff that nobody saw coming with the iPhone and later the iPad. Apple also brings the tools for earth-shaking apps to be created.
Please, do not underestimate the potential of this device. It can be a much better gadget than everything sold today. It opens new doors. it would also be cheaper then the iPhone + iPad combo, while providing great profit and margins.
I think you're thinking I disagree with you on the rest of the iOS stuff... it may be a English vs Portugese implicit communication. and somehow you're thinking I'm anti-Apple. I'm not.
I am arguing the primary point. An Intermediate screen size does not define a untapped niche of untold riches for Apple to create yet another 300 SKUs (2 colors, 1-3 cell bands, 100 countries), that your same modifications can't provide in the current form factors.
I agree on the ecosystem, and in fact, extend it back to the cloud. What is really missing in the apple ecosystem is 'group management' (why can't ITMS know that my wife and I are part of a single organizational unit, that I'm a member of my work organization, and that I bowl with these 5 guys on Wednesday). That would be enabling.
As for display method, i agree, however, I don't see your argument opening up a whole new market.
As for battery, I disagree. the capacity of the battery is limiting the device, and increasing the size is not an adequate trade off. Weight also has to be considered. The Mini is a winner because battery capacity is now reached a point that 8" can be light enough to hold with one hand. Power storage (and possibly bio-charging) advancements will drive improvements of the phone, not the form factor, as weight is king in mobile computing, and battery drives weight.
You state that increasing the performance envelope of the iPhone platform would unleash possibilities not currently there. I would posit, we are not utilizing the current power curve effectively. I don't disagree that more power plus more GPU would unleash greater capabilities, but I would also posit that there are other gating factors (bandwidth) that would limit the value of more local compute.
You are assuming that there is some limitation of the XxY size of the screen that is limiting innovation between a 4" diag and an 8" diag, by piling on performance above what is already there, but you can't imagine what those innovations would be, and in another thread, you think this would be a 'killer app' for college and business. When in fact, the growth curve is in delivering less costly device to billions in 2nd and 3rd world countries, to elementary schools.
Finally, you are basically saying no one in Apple is looking at these possibilities. My guess is that they are, but the 'smart' move (you may consider it stupid), is to limit SKUs and form factors, until there is a dramatic risk (7" tablets establishing a price point under the umbrella), or dramatic technological breakthrough, (IGZO able to scale to square miles of glass per year for the same or lower price point as current displays).
I do welcome your thoughts here... it's clarifying that you are not looking at this as a 'I need 4.8" phone because I'm special' as many people on this board tend to respond.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I don't get this.
First I'm told that I'm a complete idiot for thinking that people actually use their phones as phones anymore.
And now if I speak out against the inclusion of telephony in a tablet, I'll definitely be called a complete idiot for thinking that anyone wouldn't want phone capability in their tablet.
This sort of crap doesn't make me more open to other people's ideas than I already am. It makes me ignore them entirely, writing them off as idiotic Microsoft-style "find out every conceivable use case, even the stupidest stuff you can think of, and build different products for every single one of them" ideas. It makes me think that I was right in the first place, or at least more right than the people wandering around in the fog, choosing any answer they want at will.
So why would people want their tablet to be a phone if:
1. They're not gonna be able to hold it like a phone
2. People "don't even use their smartphones as phones anymore anyway"
?
I get the whole "one device that does everything" vibe. What I don't get is why people think it's one device when in both situations it's two devices for which you have to account.
I don't know if this is personal to me or if you are just railing at the whole world here, but I don't get your remarks either.
I was just trying to get across my personal enthusiasm for the idea of a blended device. My reasoning on the phone in the tablet thing is that (like a lot of people nowadays) I don't get many personal phone calls. I literally get one every month or two. All I'm saying is that I would be okay with using just the iPad (because of the monetary huge savings), and using speaker phone for the occasional time I get a call.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
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Android makes big screens (more than 4.0 or 4.2) useless. iOS doesn't.
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Sorry, GS3 is 4.8 and almost all my apps show much more than their equivalent in iphone 4 (even the home screen, I have 7x5 + the dock). I agree the tablets are not catching up but the bigger phones are good. I don't know about phablets though.
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Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff
facetime.
Can talk only with iphone/ipad/mac users. I would expect when somebody requests for phone feature it will be to anybody who has a phone connection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe
For the record the Note 2 is not Pentile. I would agree it's rather oversaturated as are most of Samsung's AMOLEDs. In an effort to rid myself of Samsung crap, I had my IT dept swap my Galaxy Nexus they gave me (my iPhone 5 is my personal line) for the new HTC DNA which has the 5in 1080p (440ppi) LCD3 display about 2 weeks ago. That screen is an absolute dream to use. Colors are terrific, reading is sharp and exceptional. I see the screen size as a great benefit for easier map navigation, reading, and games (playing Pitfall for example side by side).
True. Sorry for that mistake.
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Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff
This is your 'car' analogy?
Sorry, you're now working your way back to the 'Car vs Truck' analogy, and you're asking for a truck that handles like a car.
Enterprise doesn't want a bigger phone (I sit in that space). Enterprise wants singular platform to manage. iOS is that.
Colleges don't want phones. iPad for them.
Business... other than some yet undefined road warrior, I see no $20Billion/year profit niche for a larger, faster, 'phone'.
What is missing is functionality. All of these want multi-participant collaboration (iChat AV meets FaceTime meets Webex)
All of these want integrated workspace (iCloud meets sharepoint meets iWork meets realtime document change control)
all of these want integration into their unique business processes, which means a decomposed, distributed, workflow management system for these processes.
I don't see anyone wanting a 4.8" screen as a 'must have' over a 4" or an 8" screen.
You speak of stupidity 'owning' a $150 Billion dollar airbag.
"You keep using that word. I don't think that word means what I think it means."
This isn't about car's analogies.
I addressed my points on my earlier post, and you haven't provided "evidence" of nothing.
First of all, you are completely ignoring the "new" and "unknown factor", just like people did with the first iPhone and iPad. (the new type of app interface, for example).
You don't see anyone wanting a phone bigger than 4.5"? Are you blind? 80 million people, per quarter, are willing to have inferior phones on every single department JUST to have a screen that's 4.5"+ (Razr, S3, note, One, Xperia, you name it) even if they pay almost the same. How many millions would want a bigger screen (bigger than 4") but aren't willing willing to lose performance/build quality/ecosystem for it so they keep buying iPhones? 5 million per quarter? 10? That's almost 100 million potential buyers for this "iPhoneX" each quarter!!! Are you insane?
You are just too limited. You see the iPhoneX just as a bigger phone, just like some people saw the iPad as a big iPod.
Learn... It's much more than that.
For 100 million people per quarter, this isn't a big "iPhone", it's "the best computer one can buy, that's also a phone". Samsung and others make "huge phones" that lose to the iPhone on every metric, so they are not worth it for anyone with at least two brain cells working properly, but an iPhone X? THINK!
Again, please, read my post about the Note vs iPhone vs iPhoneX.
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Originally Posted by Gazoobee
This is false. They are selling, yes. There is interest in the product, yes. But to say they are "selling like hotcakes" is not really true at all.
I think you are mistaking your own personal enthusiasm for a larger consumer interest here.
Every 4.5+ phone is a phablet, and they are Apple's competition right now. In case you haven't noticed, together they sell a lot and if you ask people "why not the superior iPhone?", the first point will be about screen size. Isn't the 4.7" one X a phablet? wasn't the original note a phablet? isn't the s3 a phablet? etc. Please, let's not let stupid ads define a name for this size category for us and decide the "right" dimension for what's a tablet or "just" a huge phone.
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Originally Posted by Gazoobee
Not really. You can use an iPad as a "web phone" using a VoIP app, but that doesn't make it a phone. In fact it barely works in that configuration, and is far from being a useful phone replacement.
As for the "holding it up to your ear" argument ... it's a bit of a red herring. As you mention yourself, there are many other ways to answer a phone, some of which are more popular nowadays than the "original" (holding it up to your ear).
When I see someone using an iPhone on the train or the bus these days, about half the time the person is using the earbuds instead of holding the phone up to their ear and they hold the phone itself up to their mouth like it was an ice-cream sandwich bar and whisper into the microphone at the bottom. This is at least as popular as the "holding it up to your ear" crowd, at least among the under-30's anyway. I see a lot of folks in restaurants lying the iPHone on the table and using speakerphone also.
I think this is coming about because if you answer the phone with the earbuds in, or with a bluetooth earpiece, you end up walking down the street talking to thin air anyway. Whereas even five years ago you would be considered some kind of executive douchebag to use a bluetooth earpiece, now it's so common people have just gotten used to it. Once you get used to talking out loud on a phone call like that in public, then all kinds of options open up.
The idea that you have to talk on the phone by raising it up to your ear is rapidly becoming just another example of "old thinking" IMO.
Piling on.... old thinking to me is using a phone in a single modality (audio only). iPhone's are a multi-modal device. Talk and surf (not while walking, at least not well) in a connected world is the norm.
iPads are perfectly capable of multi-modal phone calls. The limiting factor now appears to be carriers, and/or the ubuiquity of multiMbit/sec WiFi.
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Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff
Mobile means small and agile.
Where did you get that definition? Tablets are also considered mobile devices. Even laptops are considered that.
These next couple weeks are going to be touch for Apple stock. Heck its already down 16+ these past two days while Google is way up. All the buzz will be around CES and we'll get conflicting reports on earnings - some analysts will claim Apple's going to have a great quarter others will say they aren't.