Yes, 5"+ phones and tablets are a silly idea, but they are still selling well because the world is full of silly people; These devices aren't just being bought by special needs users, either. "Bigger is better" encompasses a significant portion of any consumer market. Look at how many people drive immensely impractical, comically oversized pickup trucks. Those are not confined to the 'special needs' crowd, and there aren't that many full-time construction workers driving around.
Much as we might know better, in a land of excess the most practical consumer product is rarely the dominant one.
It is silly to think everybody has the same kind of requirements. For eg. I rarely use the phone (may by 5% of my use is phone, the rest is PDA use). So bigger screens are good for reading, emailing, browsing, etc. Recently heard from a friend who has all apple stuff that she is considering note 2 (and I was surprised) and will use bluetooth for phone (which she uses quite a lot).
When you boil it down to the actual use a smartphone, any smartphone has two types of uses. One is voice where you might hold it to your ear unless you prefer bluetooth or speaker mode. The other use is everything else which means using the display in your hands.
More and more people are using the display only far more than they are using the voice part of the phone to talk. I would say that probably 90 to 95% of the use of my iPhone is using apps and not talking. That would include email, games, browsing...etc. I suspect most of you are pretty similar.
When you are primarily using your phone in your hands and not next to your ear, why wouldn't you want a larger screen? It makes everything you view easier on the eyes, you can see more on the screen with less scrolling, and overall it is just a far more pleasing experience. Many purists here are absolutely convinced that is Apple made both a 4" and a 5" iPhone model that the 4" would continue to far outsell the larger device. I am not so sure. I think once people actually hold the two in their hands at a store few would walk out with a 4" phone assuming they are the same price and specs.
Apple really needs to make a larger phone and soon. It doesn't have to be as large as the Note II by any means. But I think it at least has to be around 4.8" to maybe 5.1" in size to stop people from leaving. I love iOS and Apple products and have enjoyed everything about my iPhone 4S for the last 15 months with the exception of the tiny screen which frustrates me to no end on daily use. When my upgrade rolls around later this summer a .5" larger display just won't cut it. I will be going back to Android unless Apple plans on introducing a larger phone because for me the most essential component of a phone is a large display.
I think you're thinking I disagree with you on the rest of the iOS stuff... it may be a English vs Portugese implicit communication. and somehow you're thinking I'm anti-Apple. I'm not.
I am arguing the primary point. An Intermediate screen size does not define a untapped niche of untold riches for Apple to create yet another 300 SKUs (2 colors, 1-3 cell bands, 100 countries), that your same modifications can't provide in the current form factors.
I agree on the ecosystem, and in fact, extend it back to the cloud. What is really missing in the apple ecosystem is 'group management' (why can't ITMS know that my wife and I are part of a single organizational unit, that I'm a member of my work organization, and that I bowl with these 5 guys on Wednesday). That would be enabling.
As for display method, i agree, however, I don't see your argument opening up a whole new market.
As for battery, I disagree. the capacity of the battery is limiting the device, and increasing the size is not an adequate trade off. Weight also has to be considered. The Mini is a winner because battery capacity is now reached a point that 8" can be light enough to hold with one hand. Power storage (and possibly bio-charging) advancements will drive improvements of the phone, not the form factor, as weight is king in mobile computing, and battery drives weight.
You state that increasing the performance envelope of the iPhone platform would unleash possibilities not currently there. I would posit, we are not utilizing the current power curve effectively. I don't disagree that more power plus more GPU would unleash greater capabilities, but I would also posit that there are other gating factors (bandwidth) that would limit the value of more local compute.
You are assuming that there is some limitation of the XxY size of the screen that is limiting innovation between a 4" diag and an 8" diag, by piling on performance above what is already there, but you can't imagine what those innovations would be, and in another thread, you think this would be a 'killer app' for college and business. When in fact, the growth curve is in delivering less costly device to billions in 2nd and 3rd world countries, to elementary schools.
Finally, you are basically saying no one in Apple is looking at these possibilities. My guess is that they are, but the 'smart' move (you may consider it stupid), is to limit SKUs and form factors, until there is a dramatic risk (7" tablets establishing a price point under the umbrella), or dramatic technological breakthrough, (IGZO able to scale to square miles of glass per year for the same or lower price point as current displays).
I do welcome your thoughts here... it's clarifying that you are not looking at this as a 'I need 4.8" phone because I'm special' as many people on this board tend to respond.
I will just answer your well thought (Thank you, some people here really can't have a decent discussion) post, then it may take a while for me to answer again today (train).
To put it simply, I do not care if someone is Anti-Apple or not, as long as they can justify that properly.
What you are missing (a big elephant) is:
This isn't about battery, screen, power, ecosystem and dev tools, build quality. That won't do nothing great.
This is about: The better battery life of every phone + the best screen on a phone that is suitable for cad, excel, multimedia, etc. + the most powerful handheld computer ever created + the right ecosystem and tools to take advantage of that ------ On a single device.
I totally believe that Apple is the only one able to create this new product that can create its own category. No current phone can do what this "iPhoneX" can, no device opens so many doors.
It's a better phone, but much more than that, more than any device.
I hope Apple takes a risk, like they did, like Steve did even if this is proven wrong and a flop. That's Apple. (besides, what can happen that's bad?).
"We believe Apple will offer customers more screen sizes with the next iPhone and a display as large as 5 inches is not out of the question, in our view," White reiterated in his latest note to investors on Friday.
To elaborate:
"Apple's next iPhone, dubbed iPhone 5S or iPhone 6, could be available in three different screen sizes, with up to eight different colour options, an analyst has predicted.
White expects that the iPhone 6 will launch in May or June of this year, and will follow the iPod touch's example by introducing up to eight new colour options.
White also predicts that the iPad will be available in multiple colours in the future.
This [multiple screen size baloney] eventually opens up the possibility for a lower-priced iPhone (i.e., iPhone mini) with a smaller screen size that could allow Apple to further penetrate markets such as China and open up opportunities in India."
I was thinking about filing this under "analysts' guesses" but I think I'm going to skip a step and just go with ????????.
Apple went through a whole thing explaining the screen size:
"What is the design centre for a phone? It's your hand. A phone should feel great in your hand and be easy to use with your thumb."
It's a typical analyst response that Apple should do what everyone else in the market does - make a netbook, make a TV, make a model of device to suit everyone alive - but the people at Apple do what they feel is right. The best setup is really to do very few things really well that you don't have to make adjustments for everyone. That's why Apple products will continue to stand alone from the pile while analysts watch the pile grow and assume it's the right thing to do.
I don't see them offering more colours in the premium devices because they have to allow for the distribution of demand. I don't see them offering a bigger iPhone because people's hands aren't getting bigger and those with big hands will have no trouble using a 4" iPhone. I don't see them offering an iPhone Mini because it would drive people to the smaller model like the iPad - their strategy is to offer the old model at a lower price and it works well for the iPhone. I don't think it will be the iPhone 6 and I don't think it will launch in May or June.
I'm not sure what we will see in the incoming months. The series 6 Rogue GPU will arrive this month but the dual and quad-core versions don't arrive until June so I'd expect the iOS device updates at the end of the year. Haswell is April-June so I'd say the MBP will get the first update as soon as Haswell becomes available and hopefully the entry rMBP can replace the top MBP model in price.
Then the Mini, Pro and iMac can get their updates at WWDC. iPad and iPhone around September with quad-core Rogue 6 - OpenCL support and OpenGL ES 3. Hopefully soon they'll be able to port full desktop games to mobile without changing much code.
There is a market for this device. There are many people who wants a tablet but do not want to pay the high price for a tablet. The smartphones are subsidized. This is why Samsung was able to make Note 2 such success because the price was subsidized.
It's the same reason you choose a 46" TV over a 40" TV... or a 15" laptop over a 13" laptop... or prefer a 3" screen on a new Nikon DSLR over a 2.5" screen on an older camera.
I don't know why this is such a difficult concept to grasp.
Besides... my pocket could certainly accommodate a larger device.
Wow, what an inane view on the subject. Bigger is better.
A 32" HDTV has the same number of pixels as a 60" HDTV so all they are doing is spacing the pixels out and reducing PPI and therefore picture quality.
So why is a bigger TV better? If you need a bigger TV because you have a big room, sit closer. If you need a bigger TV because you have poor eyesight you won't appreciate the HD quality. The ONLY reason TVs are getting bigger and bigger is so people can feel more important than their friends.
Same with phones. You think you need a bigger screen because the neanderthal part of your brain thinks it'll automatically make it a better thing.
What exactly do you need that slightly larger screen for?
They'll have to start breeding people with longer thumbs to operate these ridiculous devices.
Currently, Samsung are selling a phone designed for 1 person. Most of you won't know him.
I got to handle on of those big screen phones last night. The one in the photo I believe. The screen is great, but just waaay to big for a phone when I held it. However the guy who had it wanted something that was not a full tablet but also a phone.. he got what he wanted from the sound of it. I don't think Apple will do this.
Wow, what an inane view on the subject. Bigger is better.
A 32" HDTV has the same number of pixels as a 60" HDTV so all they are doing is spacing the pixels out and reducing PPI and therefore picture quality.
So why is a bigger TV better? If you need a bigger TV because you have a big room, sit closer. If you need a bigger TV because you have poor eyesight you won't appreciate the HD quality. The ONLY reason TVs are getting bigger and bigger is so people can feel more important than their friends.
Are you serious? My TV is situated around 18 feet away from my sofa. Are you saying I should use a 32" TV and move my sofa ten feet forward? The reason TV's are getting bigger is because that is what people want, and often it is for practical reasons. Same with phones. Its really not that hard to understand. I don't buy things to make me feel better, I buy things I want and/or need and would like those things to fit my requirements as closely as possible. And none of those requirements are to make me feel more important to my friends.
One size does not fit all people. Apple can produce all the videos they want about thumb reach, but guess what...I hold my iPhone with two hands as much if not more as I hold it with one hand. When I play any games, reply to emails, texts and many other tasks it is far easier to hold it horizontally in landscape mode with both hands. My favorite game is Modern War, try playing that game vertically with one hand.
I fully understand not everyone uses their iPhone in the same way or uses the same apps. Perhaps some of you tend to use your phone 90% of the time one handed in portrait mode. I don't and for that reason alone I want a larger screen. Apple producing a 4" and a 5" iPhone is a win win for everyone. What exactly is the downside to this?
As AT&T showed, even kids understand this concept.
Your quote... faster horse vs car... You quoted me in that response. It was where you pulled me in.
Quote:
First of all, you are completely ignoring the "new" and "unknown factor", just like people did with the first iPhone and iPad. (the new type of app interface, for example).
no, I'm not. and your arguments for that are orthogonal from your iPhone vs Note vs iPhoneX
You need to break these down into 2 different arguments
1) people are buying big phones
2) there is an unimaginable capability if we put a supercomputer with infinitely fast GPUs, an amazing battery, and a superior visual presentation.
For 1), you numbers don't factor. 120M devices sold last year (PCs, tablets, smart phones), yet you state that 320Million people bought 4.5"+ _phones_?
please refactor and base on attributable fact.
For 2), I agree. I'm ignoring that. I also stated that I believe Apple is not. But, because they aren't selling one now doesn't mean they are stupid. Until they find 'one' killer app for that disruption in the power curve, they can't 'sell' it, and if they can't sell 'it' (internally, or to developers), it won't sell. It's chicken/egg. 'Unknown' equals 'Risk' in business. You can't sell 'unknown' unless you have one representative function to make it known (why put accelerometers on a phone? well now there are many reasons... back then it was both games and coupled with GPS, accurate location. Key Apps, a couple games, and 'Find my iPhone')
Quote:
You don't see anyone wanting a phone bigger than 4.5"? Are you blind? 80 million people, per quarter, are willing to have inferior phones on every single department JUST to have a screen that's 4.5"+ (Razr, S3, note, One, Xperia, you name it) even if they pay almost the same. How many millions would want a bigger screen (bigger than 4") but aren't willing willing to lose performance/build quality/ecosystem for it so they keep buying iPhones? 5 million per quarter? 10? That's almost 100 million potential buyers for this "iPhoneX" each quarter!!! Are you insane?
You are just too limited. You see the iPhoneX just as a bigger phone, just like some people saw the iPad as a big iPod.
Learn... It's much more than that.
For 100 million people per quarter, this isn't a big "iPhone", it's "the best computer one can buy, that's also a phone". Samsung and others make "huge phones" that lose to the iPhone on every metric, so they are not worth it for anyone with at least two brain cells working properly, but an iPhone X? THINK!
Again, please, read my post about the Note vs iPhone vs iPhoneX.
Your argument about my insanity will hold more water when you base your 100Million/qtr' buyers of a larger form factor phone in fact, and not in some phatasmagorical number that 80 million 4.5" or larger phones are being bought because they are larger than an iPhone.
I do think you are
a) overstating the number
b) misunderstanding why big phones sell.
- carriers promote them and sheeple buy them
- people buy their smartphones to be seen, not used (look at internet utilization of smartphones)
- all things being equal (price, primary function), people buy perceived value ('wow' big, I may use that some day)
c) not understanding the primary market for phone growth in the next 3 years
- people moving off of feature phones (48% of mobile phones are still 'not smart')
- people moving off their first Android Phone (that phone sucked...)
- people replacing obsolete iPhone 3GS and 4 phones (same ecosystem)
You need to retool your argument back to the horse vs cars... e.g. What will Apple do if Samsung can make a phone that is better than the iPhone 5(6) and comes with a killer app? I'll buy that.
Because all the data that I'm seeing from you is made up, and conjecting a business model based on this data and the paranoia that someone will build a better mobile device before Apple will and apple will not recover, and the rationalle to throw caution to the wind is everything and build a best of breed mobile computing platform because there is an unknown killer app that will use it and therefore unlimited market for it.
If we see some big ass phone from Apple this year then I really do fear for the company. If they were that concerned about losing sales because of the size of the iPhone, they would have made the iPhone bigger (wider, not just taller).
We got 7" tablets because other companies knew the only way to compete with iPad was on price, and they could make a 7" cheap enough to maybe pull some people away from iPad. With phones these OEM's are basically slaves to the carriers and the carriers wanted to push LTE. That caused a need for big ass batteries which in turn caused a need for bigger phones. Of course they weren't going to market it that way so it was marketed as new and hip and innovative and better than phones with smaller screens. I don't want Apple to start following what everyone else is doing. I want them to do their own thing.
1) I ran the numbers and just under 5" would allow Apple to use the iPad (4)'s 264 PPI display with their 1136x640 resolution. Would that satisfy those that want a bigger display or would it also have to be some HDTV resolution like many Android phones?
2) I can't help but wonder if theis huge phone crazy isn't much like the tiny notebook phase. Are we exchanging uncomfortably small notebooks for uncomfortably large phones?
I know a lot of people that have the 4.7" phones and it doesn't seem to be a problem. It might be if they keep trying to get larger.
1. They're not gonna be able to hold it like a phone
I don't hold my phone to my face anymore when making or taking calls, if that's what you mean "hold it like a phone". I've been using Bluetooth headphones for a couple years now. I find it's a lot more comfortable than holding a brick to my face, however small and light it may be, and it sounds a lot better too. Currently, my "brick" is an iPhone 4.
2. People "don't even use their smartphones as phones anymore anyway"
I wonder to what degree that is true. I know quite a few people that make plenty of calls with smart phones. I see this of iPhone and Android users.
One size does not fit all people. Apple can produce all the videos they want about thumb reach, but guess what...I hold my iPhone with two hands as much if not more as I hold it with one hand. When I play any games, reply to emails, texts and many other tasks it is far easier to hold it horizontally in landscape mode with both hands. My favorite game is Modern War, try playing that game vertically with one hand.
I fully understand not everyone uses their iPhone in the same way or uses the same apps. Perhaps some of you tend to use your phone 90% of the time one handed in portrait mode. I don't and for that reason alone I want a larger screen. Apple producing a 4" and a 5" iPhone is a win win for everyone. What exactly is the downside to this?
As AT&T showed, even kids understand this concept.
I have a hunch that Apple deal with the carriers limit it to only one iPhone model. Carriers do not like to make it very general because the iPhone is subsidized more than the Android phones. If Apple wants to sell two new models at the same time she may need to renegotiate the deal.
It is not a question of if but rather when will Apple make a larger screen. They mistakenly thought that making it just a tad longer would satisfy both camps. They were wrong. I don't think anyone hoping for a larger iPhone was satisfied with .5". And probably some people who felt the old size was perfect were also not very happy. Perhaps if they had gone with a 4.3" display this would have been a better compromise. If they only want to make one iPhone size this would be the closest thing to a sweet spot as you can get. Otherwise, they pretty much have to eventually offer two sizes.
Apple are stubborn but not stupid. If their sales plateau and more studies show that size does matter when people decide to buy a smartphone they will relent. This happened with the iPad Mini and to a certain degree with the iPhone 5. A larger iPhone will come to pass or they will see their market share erode, but when and what size are still up for debate. My guess is 2014 and 5" . The same people on this forum that dismissed this idea will then embrace it as a natural progression of Apple's strategy all along. They will also likely be the first to upgrade to the larger display.
Wow, what an inane view on the subject. Bigger is better.
A 32" HDTV has the same number of pixels as a 60" HDTV so all they are doing is spacing the pixels out and reducing PPI and therefore picture quality.
So why is a bigger TV better? If you need a bigger TV because you have a big room, sit closer. If you need a bigger TV because you have poor eyesight you won't appreciate the HD quality. The ONLY reason TVs are getting bigger and bigger is so people can feel more important than their friends.
Same with phones. You think you need a bigger screen because the neanderthal part of your brain thinks it'll automatically make it a better thing. What exactly do you need that slightly larger screen for?
Because I fucking want one!
Also... when I bought a bigger monitor for my desktop... I didn't do it so I could sit further from the screen. I just wanted a bigger screen.
When was the last time Apple followed any fashionable trend? For a while, competitors were busy making laptops with ever larger 18.4- and even 20-inch screens, but along comes Apple, terminating their own 17" laptop model.
One size does not fit all people. Apple can produce all the videos they want about thumb reach, but guess what...I hold my iPhone with two hands as much if not more as I hold it with one hand. When I play any games, reply to emails, texts and many other tasks it is far easier to hold it horizontally in landscape mode with both hands. My favorite game is Modern War, try playing that game vertically with one hand.
I fully understand not everyone uses their iPhone in the same way or uses the same apps. Perhaps some of you tend to use your phone 90% of the time one handed in portrait mode. I don't and for that reason alone I want a larger screen. Apple producing a 4" and a 5" iPhone is a win win for everyone. What exactly is the downside to this?
You can see by your self the downside of having multiple size and resolution when come to create Apps. With the iPad Mini it was easy to accommodate existing Apps, but on a 4in and 5in screen it become a nightmare of platforms fragmentation like it is on Android where majority of Androids Apps doesn't use well the screen area on Phablet and Tablet.
I don't see a problem with adding phone capability to iPads as an option.
As a 'light' voice user on my iPhone, I'd be first in line for a Retina mini with phone capabilities. Either with headphones, bluetooth or speaker, I'd be glad to have a mini with me at all times and don't need or want 2 devices.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorsos
Yes, 5"+ phones and tablets are a silly idea, but they are still selling well because the world is full of silly people; These devices aren't just being bought by special needs users, either. "Bigger is better" encompasses a significant portion of any consumer market. Look at how many people drive immensely impractical, comically oversized pickup trucks. Those are not confined to the 'special needs' crowd, and there aren't that many full-time construction workers driving around.
Much as we might know better, in a land of excess the most practical consumer product is rarely the dominant one.
It is silly to think everybody has the same kind of requirements. For eg. I rarely use the phone (may by 5% of my use is phone, the rest is PDA use). So bigger screens are good for reading, emailing, browsing, etc. Recently heard from a friend who has all apple stuff that she is considering note 2 (and I was surprised) and will use bluetooth for phone (which she uses quite a lot).
When you boil it down to the actual use a smartphone, any smartphone has two types of uses. One is voice where you might hold it to your ear unless you prefer bluetooth or speaker mode. The other use is everything else which means using the display in your hands.
More and more people are using the display only far more than they are using the voice part of the phone to talk. I would say that probably 90 to 95% of the use of my iPhone is using apps and not talking. That would include email, games, browsing...etc. I suspect most of you are pretty similar.
When you are primarily using your phone in your hands and not next to your ear, why wouldn't you want a larger screen? It makes everything you view easier on the eyes, you can see more on the screen with less scrolling, and overall it is just a far more pleasing experience. Many purists here are absolutely convinced that is Apple made both a 4" and a 5" iPhone model that the 4" would continue to far outsell the larger device. I am not so sure. I think once people actually hold the two in their hands at a store few would walk out with a 4" phone assuming they are the same price and specs.
Apple really needs to make a larger phone and soon. It doesn't have to be as large as the Note II by any means. But I think it at least has to be around 4.8" to maybe 5.1" in size to stop people from leaving. I love iOS and Apple products and have enjoyed everything about my iPhone 4S for the last 15 months with the exception of the tiny screen which frustrates me to no end on daily use. When my upgrade rolls around later this summer a .5" larger display just won't cut it. I will be going back to Android unless Apple plans on introducing a larger phone because for me the most essential component of a phone is a large display.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff
I think you're thinking I disagree with you on the rest of the iOS stuff... it may be a English vs Portugese implicit communication. and somehow you're thinking I'm anti-Apple. I'm not.
I am arguing the primary point. An Intermediate screen size does not define a untapped niche of untold riches for Apple to create yet another 300 SKUs (2 colors, 1-3 cell bands, 100 countries), that your same modifications can't provide in the current form factors.
I agree on the ecosystem, and in fact, extend it back to the cloud. What is really missing in the apple ecosystem is 'group management' (why can't ITMS know that my wife and I are part of a single organizational unit, that I'm a member of my work organization, and that I bowl with these 5 guys on Wednesday). That would be enabling.
As for display method, i agree, however, I don't see your argument opening up a whole new market.
As for battery, I disagree. the capacity of the battery is limiting the device, and increasing the size is not an adequate trade off. Weight also has to be considered. The Mini is a winner because battery capacity is now reached a point that 8" can be light enough to hold with one hand. Power storage (and possibly bio-charging) advancements will drive improvements of the phone, not the form factor, as weight is king in mobile computing, and battery drives weight.
You state that increasing the performance envelope of the iPhone platform would unleash possibilities not currently there. I would posit, we are not utilizing the current power curve effectively. I don't disagree that more power plus more GPU would unleash greater capabilities, but I would also posit that there are other gating factors (bandwidth) that would limit the value of more local compute.
You are assuming that there is some limitation of the XxY size of the screen that is limiting innovation between a 4" diag and an 8" diag, by piling on performance above what is already there, but you can't imagine what those innovations would be, and in another thread, you think this would be a 'killer app' for college and business. When in fact, the growth curve is in delivering less costly device to billions in 2nd and 3rd world countries, to elementary schools.
Finally, you are basically saying no one in Apple is looking at these possibilities. My guess is that they are, but the 'smart' move (you may consider it stupid), is to limit SKUs and form factors, until there is a dramatic risk (7" tablets establishing a price point under the umbrella), or dramatic technological breakthrough, (IGZO able to scale to square miles of glass per year for the same or lower price point as current displays).
I do welcome your thoughts here... it's clarifying that you are not looking at this as a 'I need 4.8" phone because I'm special' as many people on this board tend to respond.
I will just answer your well thought (Thank you, some people here really can't have a decent discussion) post, then it may take a while for me to answer again today (train).
To put it simply, I do not care if someone is Anti-Apple or not, as long as they can justify that properly.
What you are missing (a big elephant) is:
This isn't about battery, screen, power, ecosystem and dev tools, build quality. That won't do nothing great.
This is about: The better battery life of every phone + the best screen on a phone that is suitable for cad, excel, multimedia, etc. + the most powerful handheld computer ever created + the right ecosystem and tools to take advantage of that ------ On a single device.
I totally believe that Apple is the only one able to create this new product that can create its own category. No current phone can do what this "iPhoneX" can, no device opens so many doors.
It's a better phone, but much more than that, more than any device.
I hope Apple takes a risk, like they did, like Steve did even if this is proven wrong and a flop. That's Apple. (besides, what can happen that's bad?).
To elaborate:
"Apple's next iPhone, dubbed iPhone 5S or iPhone 6, could be available in three different screen sizes, with up to eight different colour options, an analyst has predicted.
White expects that the iPhone 6 will launch in May or June of this year, and will follow the iPod touch's example by introducing up to eight new colour options.
White also predicts that the iPad will be available in multiple colours in the future.
This [multiple screen size baloney] eventually opens up the possibility for a lower-priced iPhone (i.e., iPhone mini) with a smaller screen size that could allow Apple to further penetrate markets such as China and open up opportunities in India."
http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=2EBAF450-EC6F-5EBD-B881C5B5545EF061
I was thinking about filing this under "analysts' guesses" but I think I'm going to skip a step and just go with ????????.
Apple went through a whole thing explaining the screen size:
"What is the design centre for a phone? It's your hand. A phone should feel great in your hand and be easy to use with your thumb."
It's a typical analyst response that Apple should do what everyone else in the market does - make a netbook, make a TV, make a model of device to suit everyone alive - but the people at Apple do what they feel is right. The best setup is really to do very few things really well that you don't have to make adjustments for everyone. That's why Apple products will continue to stand alone from the pile while analysts watch the pile grow and assume it's the right thing to do.
I don't see them offering more colours in the premium devices because they have to allow for the distribution of demand. I don't see them offering a bigger iPhone because people's hands aren't getting bigger and those with big hands will have no trouble using a 4" iPhone. I don't see them offering an iPhone Mini because it would drive people to the smaller model like the iPad - their strategy is to offer the old model at a lower price and it works well for the iPhone. I don't think it will be the iPhone 6 and I don't think it will launch in May or June.
I'm not sure what we will see in the incoming months. The series 6 Rogue GPU will arrive this month but the dual and quad-core versions don't arrive until June so I'd expect the iOS device updates at the end of the year. Haswell is April-June so I'd say the MBP will get the first update as soon as Haswell becomes available and hopefully the entry rMBP can replace the top MBP model in price.
Then the Mini, Pro and iMac can get their updates at WWDC. iPad and iPhone around September with quad-core Rogue 6 - OpenCL support and OpenGL ES 3. Hopefully soon they'll be able to port full desktop games to mobile without changing much code.
There is a market for this device. There are many people who wants a tablet but do not want to pay the high price for a tablet. The smartphones are subsidized. This is why Samsung was able to make Note 2 such success because the price was subsidized.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip
Because it's a bigger image on the screen.
It's the same reason you choose a 46" TV over a 40" TV... or a 15" laptop over a 13" laptop... or prefer a 3" screen on a new Nikon DSLR over a 2.5" screen on an older camera.
I don't know why this is such a difficult concept to grasp.
Besides... my pocket could certainly accommodate a larger device.
Wow, what an inane view on the subject. Bigger is better.
A 32" HDTV has the same number of pixels as a 60" HDTV so all they are doing is spacing the pixels out and reducing PPI and therefore picture quality.
So why is a bigger TV better? If you need a bigger TV because you have a big room, sit closer. If you need a bigger TV because you have poor eyesight you won't appreciate the HD quality. The ONLY reason TVs are getting bigger and bigger is so people can feel more important than their friends.
Same with phones. You think you need a bigger screen because the neanderthal part of your brain thinks it'll automatically make it a better thing.
What exactly do you need that slightly larger screen for?
They'll have to start breeding people with longer thumbs to operate these ridiculous devices.
Currently, Samsung are selling a phone designed for 1 person. Most of you won't know him.
"The Hitcher" from The Mighty Boosh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilution
Wow, what an inane view on the subject. Bigger is better.
A 32" HDTV has the same number of pixels as a 60" HDTV so all they are doing is spacing the pixels out and reducing PPI and therefore picture quality.
So why is a bigger TV better? If you need a bigger TV because you have a big room, sit closer. If you need a bigger TV because you have poor eyesight you won't appreciate the HD quality. The ONLY reason TVs are getting bigger and bigger is so people can feel more important than their friends.
Are you serious? My TV is situated around 18 feet away from my sofa. Are you saying I should use a 32" TV and move my sofa ten feet forward? The reason TV's are getting bigger is because that is what people want, and often it is for practical reasons. Same with phones. Its really not that hard to understand. I don't buy things to make me feel better, I buy things I want and/or need and would like those things to fit my requirements as closely as possible. And none of those requirements are to make me feel more important to my friends.
One size does not fit all people. Apple can produce all the videos they want about thumb reach, but guess what...I hold my iPhone with two hands as much if not more as I hold it with one hand. When I play any games, reply to emails, texts and many other tasks it is far easier to hold it horizontally in landscape mode with both hands. My favorite game is Modern War, try playing that game vertically with one hand.
I fully understand not everyone uses their iPhone in the same way or uses the same apps. Perhaps some of you tend to use your phone 90% of the time one handed in portrait mode. I don't and for that reason alone I want a larger screen. Apple producing a 4" and a 5" iPhone is a win win for everyone. What exactly is the downside to this?
As AT&T showed, even kids understand this concept.
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Originally Posted by pedromartins
This isn't about car's analogies.
Your quote... faster horse vs car... You quoted me in that response. It was where you pulled me in.
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First of all, you are completely ignoring the "new" and "unknown factor", just like people did with the first iPhone and iPad. (the new type of app interface, for example).
no, I'm not. and your arguments for that are orthogonal from your iPhone vs Note vs iPhoneX
You need to break these down into 2 different arguments
1) people are buying big phones
2) there is an unimaginable capability if we put a supercomputer with infinitely fast GPUs, an amazing battery, and a superior visual presentation.
For 1), you numbers don't factor. 120M devices sold last year (PCs, tablets, smart phones), yet you state that 320Million people bought 4.5"+ _phones_?
please refactor and base on attributable fact.
For 2), I agree. I'm ignoring that. I also stated that I believe Apple is not. But, because they aren't selling one now doesn't mean they are stupid. Until they find 'one' killer app for that disruption in the power curve, they can't 'sell' it, and if they can't sell 'it' (internally, or to developers), it won't sell. It's chicken/egg. 'Unknown' equals 'Risk' in business. You can't sell 'unknown' unless you have one representative function to make it known (why put accelerometers on a phone? well now there are many reasons... back then it was both games and coupled with GPS, accurate location. Key Apps, a couple games, and 'Find my iPhone')
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You don't see anyone wanting a phone bigger than 4.5"? Are you blind? 80 million people, per quarter, are willing to have inferior phones on every single department JUST to have a screen that's 4.5"+ (Razr, S3, note, One, Xperia, you name it) even if they pay almost the same. How many millions would want a bigger screen (bigger than 4") but aren't willing willing to lose performance/build quality/ecosystem for it so they keep buying iPhones? 5 million per quarter? 10? That's almost 100 million potential buyers for this "iPhoneX" each quarter!!! Are you insane?
You are just too limited. You see the iPhoneX just as a bigger phone, just like some people saw the iPad as a big iPod.
Learn... It's much more than that.
For 100 million people per quarter, this isn't a big "iPhone", it's "the best computer one can buy, that's also a phone". Samsung and others make "huge phones" that lose to the iPhone on every metric, so they are not worth it for anyone with at least two brain cells working properly, but an iPhone X? THINK!
Again, please, read my post about the Note vs iPhone vs iPhoneX.
Your argument about my insanity will hold more water when you base your 100Million/qtr' buyers of a larger form factor phone in fact, and not in some phatasmagorical number that 80 million 4.5" or larger phones are being bought because they are larger than an iPhone.
I do think you are
a) overstating the number
b) misunderstanding why big phones sell.
- carriers promote them and sheeple buy them
- people buy their smartphones to be seen, not used (look at internet utilization of smartphones)
- all things being equal (price, primary function), people buy perceived value ('wow' big, I may use that some day)
c) not understanding the primary market for phone growth in the next 3 years
- people moving off of feature phones (48% of mobile phones are still 'not smart')
- people moving off their first Android Phone (that phone sucked...)
- people replacing obsolete iPhone 3GS and 4 phones (same ecosystem)
You need to retool your argument back to the horse vs cars... e.g. What will Apple do if Samsung can make a phone that is better than the iPhone 5(6) and comes with a killer app? I'll buy that.
Because all the data that I'm seeing from you is made up, and conjecting a business model based on this data and the paranoia that someone will build a better mobile device before Apple will and apple will not recover, and the rationalle to throw caution to the wind is everything and build a best of breed mobile computing platform because there is an unknown killer app that will use it and therefore unlimited market for it.
and I'm the one being called 'insane'? ;-)
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Originally Posted by xgman
They already are big successes for "others"
As far as smartphones are concerned... even 20-30 million units a year isn't considered a success by Apple.
We got 7" tablets because other companies knew the only way to compete with iPad was on price, and they could make a 7" cheap enough to maybe pull some people away from iPad. With phones these OEM's are basically slaves to the carriers and the carriers wanted to push LTE. That caused a need for big ass batteries which in turn caused a need for bigger phones. Of course they weren't going to market it that way so it was marketed as new and hip and innovative and better than phones with smaller screens. I don't want Apple to start following what everyone else is doing. I want them to do their own thing.
I know a lot of people that have the 4.7" phones and it doesn't seem to be a problem. It might be if they keep trying to get larger.
I don't hold my phone to my face anymore when making or taking calls, if that's what you mean "hold it like a phone". I've been using Bluetooth headphones for a couple years now. I find it's a lot more comfortable than holding a brick to my face, however small and light it may be, and it sounds a lot better too. Currently, my "brick" is an iPhone 4.
I wonder to what degree that is true. I know quite a few people that make plenty of calls with smart phones. I see this of iPhone and Android users.
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Originally Posted by gwmac
One size does not fit all people. Apple can produce all the videos they want about thumb reach, but guess what...I hold my iPhone with two hands as much if not more as I hold it with one hand. When I play any games, reply to emails, texts and many other tasks it is far easier to hold it horizontally in landscape mode with both hands. My favorite game is Modern War, try playing that game vertically with one hand.
I fully understand not everyone uses their iPhone in the same way or uses the same apps. Perhaps some of you tend to use your phone 90% of the time one handed in portrait mode. I don't and for that reason alone I want a larger screen. Apple producing a 4" and a 5" iPhone is a win win for everyone. What exactly is the downside to this?
As AT&T showed, even kids understand this concept.
I have a hunch that Apple deal with the carriers limit it to only one iPhone model. Carriers do not like to make it very general because the iPhone is subsidized more than the Android phones. If Apple wants to sell two new models at the same time she may need to renegotiate the deal.
It is not a question of if but rather when will Apple make a larger screen. They mistakenly thought that making it just a tad longer would satisfy both camps. They were wrong. I don't think anyone hoping for a larger iPhone was satisfied with .5". And probably some people who felt the old size was perfect were also not very happy. Perhaps if they had gone with a 4.3" display this would have been a better compromise. If they only want to make one iPhone size this would be the closest thing to a sweet spot as you can get. Otherwise, they pretty much have to eventually offer two sizes.
Apple are stubborn but not stupid. If their sales plateau and more studies show that size does matter when people decide to buy a smartphone they will relent. This happened with the iPad Mini and to a certain degree with the iPhone 5. A larger iPhone will come to pass or they will see their market share erode, but when and what size are still up for debate. My guess is 2014 and 5" . The same people on this forum that dismissed this idea will then embrace it as a natural progression of Apple's strategy all along. They will also likely be the first to upgrade to the larger display.
Because I fucking want one!
Also... when I bought a bigger monitor for my desktop... I didn't do it so I could sit further from the screen. I just wanted a bigger screen.
Let me want that!
iPad mini, and bigger screen having iPhone 5.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac
One size does not fit all people. Apple can produce all the videos they want about thumb reach, but guess what...I hold my iPhone with two hands as much if not more as I hold it with one hand. When I play any games, reply to emails, texts and many other tasks it is far easier to hold it horizontally in landscape mode with both hands. My favorite game is Modern War, try playing that game vertically with one hand.
I fully understand not everyone uses their iPhone in the same way or uses the same apps. Perhaps some of you tend to use your phone 90% of the time one handed in portrait mode. I don't and for that reason alone I want a larger screen. Apple producing a 4" and a 5" iPhone is a win win for everyone. What exactly is the downside to this?
You can see by your self the downside of having multiple size and resolution when come to create Apps. With the iPad Mini it was easy to accommodate existing Apps, but on a 4in and 5in screen it become a nightmare of platforms fragmentation like it is on Android where majority of Androids Apps doesn't use well the screen area on Phablet and Tablet.
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip
Because I fucking want one!
So if it diminishes usability, diminishes quality, increases weight, increases physical size… you want one. Because you want one.
Good thing Apple doesn't operate on the "make it because make it" philosophy.
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Originally Posted by digitalclips
I don't see a problem with adding phone capability to iPads as an option.
As a 'light' voice user on my iPhone, I'd be first in line for a Retina mini with phone capabilities. Either with headphones, bluetooth or speaker, I'd be glad to have a mini with me at all times and don't need or want 2 devices.