BFD, I don't care because I have nothing to hide. I went to my office and I allowed Google to take note of my location. I went to the mall and they updated my location. How does this harm me?
First of all, privacy has an intrinsic value of its own. You don't need to have anything to hide to value privacy, it's simply a valuable thing in and of itself, and a requirement for true freedom. Not giving privacy its due value is an extremely naive position, and a dangerous one.
Secondly, not having anything to hide doesn't really matter when people (e.g., law enforcement) start sifting through that data, obtained without warrants, and decide that your behavior is "suspicious" or that you had the means, opportunity and motive to commit some criminal act that you had nothing to do with. You might think that you have nothing to fear if you've done nothing wrong, but tell that to Brandon Mayfield.
The more data someone is storing about all your movements, all your interests, everything you do, the greater the chance that these things will happen to you, and they will happen to more and more people in the future, especially as those who don't value privacy and freedom steer us toward a more proactive system of law enforcement. Yes, many of you will deride these as "tinfoil hat" comments, but dismissing the dangers of Big Data is the surest way to make sure that these things come to pass and that we erode and lose both our privacy and our freedom.
You've made some good points about privacy. What I meant is I really don't worry about anything I have shared with Google being revealed because it isn't worth much in my opinion. As far as the email is concerned: Yes I do use different emails. As I mentioned I don't use gmail for anything other than to interact with Google. I have a corporate email for business and a .me address for personal use.
Thanks for a thoughtful reply. Too often there are knee-jerk "oh yeah?!" responses these days.
As for not being worried about the data you're sharing with Google, I think you would be surprised at the amount of data you're truly sharing, as much of it is not as readily visible as people think. Unless you're super-diligent (read: borderline obsessive), Google has its fingers in almost everything people do online these days. Unless you delete cookies immediately after checking your gmail, for example, Google can track almost everything you do online -- and make no mistake, they do. The breadth and depth of insight they have into people's lives is truly scary.
When Schmidt made the comment “We know where you are. We know where you’ve been. We can more or less know what you’re thinking about.”, you might think he's talking hyperbole, but this is their goal. If you don't believe it, another Schmidt quote might hammer it home: “I ACTUALLY think most people don’t want Google to answer their questions, they want Google to tell them what they should be doing next." I don't know about you, but I vehemently disagree with that statement. Because there is no such thing as a Delete Button for the data they gather, this is NOT a company I want to have ANY information about me, not my likes/dislikes, my social graph, my real-time location, or anything else. Real-time location over time is especially bad, but I'll hold back from heading down that path right now.
The more data someone is storing about all your movements, all your interests, everything you do, the greater the chance that these things will happen to you,
Well on the other hand if Google is tracking my every move, then there is at least a record of where I was at any given time in the chance that I need an alibi for law enforcement.
Thanks for a thoughtful reply. Too often there are knee-jerk "oh yeah?!" responses these days.
As for not being worried about the data you're sharing with Google, I think you would be surprised at the amount of data you're truly sharing, as much of it is not as readily visible as people think. Unless you're super-diligent (read: borderline obsessive), Google has its fingers in almost everything people do online these days. Unless you delete cookies immediately after checking your gmail, for example, Google can track almost everything you do online -- and make no mistake, they do. The breadth and depth of insight they have into people's lives is truly scary.
Yet the worst that happens is you receive a relevant ad. No threatening letters, no blackmail, no late night calls to your significant other, no messages to your boss on your after-work activities. No dossier on your travels, no reporting to the IRS, no mysterious men-in-black.
They don't pass around your name, discuss your children's poor schoolwork, report your health questions to your insurance company or anything else underhanded or devious that I'm aware of. The exact same thing that Apple (and others) do with your "anonymized" data to work with advertisers, albeit it so far on a smaller scale. They give companies a way to make more effective use of their advertising dollars. That's pretty much all there is to it.
Personally I find Facebook much more intrusive, and seemingly for unclear reasons that go beyond serving up relevant ads. If Google was still bed partners with Apple there would be few if any complaints about them, just as few here complain about Facebook.
Let me ask a simple question:
If Google is so evil, stealing every bit of information they can from you, intruding on your privacy at every opportunity, why is Apple turning you over to them in return for 30 pieces of silver? What would that make Apple?
I don't expect a single one of the resident fear-mongers to answer those questions. I doubt any of them have the cajones.
What a useless product. I would rather have MacBook Air or MacBook Pro. Why not include hdd ? That could be great.
From what I've read so far, it doesn't look like a product I'd have any interest in. For what it currently does I can't see much advantage over a much less-expensive sub-$300 Chromebook. That's something I can rationalize a use for. Not a Pixel.
Yet the worst that happens is you receive a relevant ad. No threatening letters, no blackmail, no late night calls to your significant other, no messages to your boss on your after-work activities. No dossier on your travels, no reporting to the IRS, no mysterious men-in-black. They work with companies for more effective use of their advertising dollars. They don't pass around your name, discuss your children's poor schoolwork, report your health questions to your insurance company or anything else underhanded or devious that I'm aware of. The exact same thing that Apple (and others) do with your "anonymized" data to work with advertisers, albeit it so far on a smaller scale.
Personally I find Facebook much more intrusive, and seemingly for unclear reasons that go beyond serving up relevant ads. If Google was still bed partners with Apple there would be few if any complaints about them, just as few here complain about Facebook.
Let me ask a simple question:
If Google is so evil, stealing every bit of information they can from you, intruding on your privacy at every opportunity, why is Apple turning you over to them in return for 30 pieces of silver? What would that make Apple?
I don't expect a single one of the resident fear-mongers to answer those questions. I doubt any of them have the cajones.
Yes, yes, we know you are shilling for Google, but, the problems between Apple and Google are evidence that the claims you make above are not true. As usual, you are misrepresenting reality, which, by now, for you, is so habitual that you don't even think about it.
Well on the other hand if Google is tracking my every move, then there is at least a record of where I was at any given time in the chance that I need an alibi for law enforcement.
All very well and good unless your "alibi" is what put them on to you in the first place.
1. Buy an iTunes voucher, using cash, from a store across town, in another state while wearing a cap and sunglasses to obscure your face from security camera's.
2. Remove credit card from account or use a voucher to set up your account in the first place.
Personally I prefer the convenience of linking to a credit card, although I also buy iTunes vouchers when they are discounted.
Well on the other hand if Google is tracking my every move, then there is at least a record of where I was at any given time in the chance that I need an alibi for law enforcement.
All very well and good unless your "alibi" is what put them on to you in the first place.
That is a risk I am willing to take because the odds are much more likely that I would walk out of my house and be struck by an asteroid than be suspected of any illegal activity.
What a useless product. I would rather have MacBook Air or MacBook Pro. Why not include hdd ? That could be great.
Because there OS is digital download only and there computers have uselessness for anything but Internet so you might as well get a MacBook (or windows for this matter) and have everything the chrome book has yet more.
If Google is so evil, stealing every bit of information they can from you, intruding on your privacy at every opportunity, why is Apple turning you over to them in return for 30 pieces of silver? What would that make Apple?
I don't expect a single one of the resident fear-mongers to answer those questions. I doubt any of them have the cajones.
Selling an opportunity to Google which can be overridden by the user changing preferences...
...unless Google acts to override them without consent, again.
Selling an opportunity to Google which can be overridden by the user changing preferences...
...unless Google acts to override them without consent, again
So it's perfectly OK for Apple to sell their innocent and unaware users to the evil, spying, privacy stealing Google Search as long as there's something in it for Apple too? That makes Apple sound a bit slimy. Perhaps the truer explanation would be that Apple doesn't consider Google to be any of the above, putting it's users put in harm's way by making Google the default search engine in return for some blood-money. I seriously doubt you want to accuse Apple of playing the part of Judas, nor should you IMO. You do trust Apple's decision-making don't you?
Both companies do what they do for the money when all is said and done. Neither is going to take a chance on killing their cash cows by betraying the users of their products and services.
There's no reason to think they will. And, it's a mistake to confuse "gesture friendly" with "touch-ready". One does not equate with the other.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see, but all signs point in that direction. OS X is becoming more similar to iOS each year; they will likely be two faces of the same coin in Apple's next operating system (more related than the base that OS X serves as for iOS currently).
You're right that gesture-friendly and touch-ready are different. The gestures already work just as well on the trackpad as they would on the touch screen. What about full-screen apps and the launchpad? Full screen apps are less useful from the perspective of a mouse or trackpad user because the menu bar containing most of the functions is hidden until you hover for a second at the top. It's easy enough to switch between applications using gestures, so there's no advantage in ease of switching. They make more sense in a touch environment because it gives the potential for every UI icon to use more space, eliminating space wasted by unnecessary UI elements like the dock.
On to the launchpad, information could be presented in a more space-efficient way if a mouse is being used. The icons have a gracious amount of space between them because it helps with accurate touches. Why implement a touch interface so early? Apple wants its customers to be as comfortable as possible with UI changes. Right now, the launchpad is an accessory, but later it will probably take a much more prominent role in the OS. It makes for one less jarring change in OS 11.
So it's perfectly OK for Apple to sell their innocent and unaware users to the evil, spying, privacy stealing Google Search as long as there's something in it for Apple too? That makes Apple sound a bit slimy. Perhaps the truer explanation would be that Apple doesn't consider Google to be any of the above, putting it's users put in harm's way by making Google the default search engine in return for some blood-money. I seriously doubt you want to accuse Apple of playing the part of Judas, nor should you IMO. You do trust Apple's decision-making don't you?
Both companies do what they do for the money when all is said and done. Neither is going to take a chance on killing their cash cows by betraying the users of their products and services.
*faceplam* Your online reputation management skills are getting more noticeable.
Wearable computers might be very alien to Apple. They might have to change their modus operandi to allow for a lot of variety in sizes, shapes, looks because apparel is so varied.
Yes. Or maybe once computer hardware gets so small and ubiquitous it will just come "for free" in your Ray Bans or Tiffany bracelet, and computer companies will partner with the fashion houses to get their ecosystem on the clothes. e.g. your new diamond earrings have a Powered by Apple logo on the box.
That is a risk I am willing to take because the odds are much more likely that I would walk out of my house and be struck by an asteroid than be suspected of any illegal activity.
A lot of people, even today, are wrongly convicted each year, a lot more than are struck by meteors. The "risks" of Big Data are much higher than you think.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
BFD, I don't care because I have nothing to hide. I went to my office and I allowed Google to take note of my location. I went to the mall and they updated my location. How does this harm me?
First of all, privacy has an intrinsic value of its own. You don't need to have anything to hide to value privacy, it's simply a valuable thing in and of itself, and a requirement for true freedom. Not giving privacy its due value is an extremely naive position, and a dangerous one.
Secondly, not having anything to hide doesn't really matter when people (e.g., law enforcement) start sifting through that data, obtained without warrants, and decide that your behavior is "suspicious" or that you had the means, opportunity and motive to commit some criminal act that you had nothing to do with. You might think that you have nothing to fear if you've done nothing wrong, but tell that to Brandon Mayfield.
The more data someone is storing about all your movements, all your interests, everything you do, the greater the chance that these things will happen to you, and they will happen to more and more people in the future, especially as those who don't value privacy and freedom steer us toward a more proactive system of law enforcement. Yes, many of you will deride these as "tinfoil hat" comments, but dismissing the dangers of Big Data is the surest way to make sure that these things come to pass and that we erode and lose both our privacy and our freedom.
Originally Posted by mstone
You've made some good points about privacy. What I meant is I really don't worry about anything I have shared with Google being revealed because it isn't worth much in my opinion. As far as the email is concerned: Yes I do use different emails. As I mentioned I don't use gmail for anything other than to interact with Google. I have a corporate email for business and a .me address for personal use.
Thanks for a thoughtful reply. Too often there are knee-jerk "oh yeah?!" responses these days.
As for not being worried about the data you're sharing with Google, I think you would be surprised at the amount of data you're truly sharing, as much of it is not as readily visible as people think. Unless you're super-diligent (read: borderline obsessive), Google has its fingers in almost everything people do online these days. Unless you delete cookies immediately after checking your gmail, for example, Google can track almost everything you do online -- and make no mistake, they do. The breadth and depth of insight they have into people's lives is truly scary.
When Schmidt made the comment “We know where you are. We know where you’ve been. We can more or less know what you’re thinking about.”, you might think he's talking hyperbole, but this is their goal. If you don't believe it, another Schmidt quote might hammer it home: “I ACTUALLY think most people don’t want Google to answer their questions, they want Google to tell them what they should be doing next." I don't know about you, but I vehemently disagree with that statement. Because there is no such thing as a Delete Button for the data they gather, this is NOT a company I want to have ANY information about me, not my likes/dislikes, my social graph, my real-time location, or anything else. Real-time location over time is especially bad, but I'll hold back from heading down that path right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
The more data someone is storing about all your movements, all your interests, everything you do, the greater the chance that these things will happen to you,
Well on the other hand if Google is tracking my every move, then there is at least a record of where I was at any given time in the chance that I need an alibi for law enforcement.
New Slogan - Google Everywhere.
Sir, Ballmer did the everywhere thing and its not very Apple.
uhh ok - Everywhere Google !
Sir, that's thinking different, very Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blah64
Thanks for a thoughtful reply. Too often there are knee-jerk "oh yeah?!" responses these days.
As for not being worried about the data you're sharing with Google, I think you would be surprised at the amount of data you're truly sharing, as much of it is not as readily visible as people think. Unless you're super-diligent (read: borderline obsessive), Google has its fingers in almost everything people do online these days. Unless you delete cookies immediately after checking your gmail, for example, Google can track almost everything you do online -- and make no mistake, they do. The breadth and depth of insight they have into people's lives is truly scary.
Yet the worst that happens is you receive a relevant ad. No threatening letters, no blackmail, no late night calls to your significant other, no messages to your boss on your after-work activities. No dossier on your travels, no reporting to the IRS, no mysterious men-in-black.
They don't pass around your name, discuss your children's poor schoolwork, report your health questions to your insurance company or anything else underhanded or devious that I'm aware of. The exact same thing that Apple (and others) do with your "anonymized" data to work with advertisers, albeit it so far on a smaller scale. They give companies a way to make more effective use of their advertising dollars. That's pretty much all there is to it.
Personally I find Facebook much more intrusive, and seemingly for unclear reasons that go beyond serving up relevant ads. If Google was still bed partners with Apple there would be few if any complaints about them, just as few here complain about Facebook.
Let me ask a simple question:
If Google is so evil, stealing every bit of information they can from you, intruding on your privacy at every opportunity, why is Apple turning you over to them in return for 30 pieces of silver? What would that make Apple?
I don't expect a single one of the resident fear-mongers to answer those questions. I doubt any of them have the cajones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
And how does this compare to iCloud cost?
How much do you have to pay Verizon for LTE access?
Shouldn't that be factored in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kakeroat
What a useless product. I would rather have MacBook Air or MacBook Pro. Why not include hdd ? That could be great.
From what I've read so far, it doesn't look like a product I'd have any interest in. For what it currently does I can't see much advantage over a much less-expensive sub-$300 Chromebook. That's something I can rationalize a use for. Not a Pixel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Yet the worst that happens is you receive a relevant ad. No threatening letters, no blackmail, no late night calls to your significant other, no messages to your boss on your after-work activities. No dossier on your travels, no reporting to the IRS, no mysterious men-in-black. They work with companies for more effective use of their advertising dollars. They don't pass around your name, discuss your children's poor schoolwork, report your health questions to your insurance company or anything else underhanded or devious that I'm aware of. The exact same thing that Apple (and others) do with your "anonymized" data to work with advertisers, albeit it so far on a smaller scale.
Personally I find Facebook much more intrusive, and seemingly for unclear reasons that go beyond serving up relevant ads. If Google was still bed partners with Apple there would be few if any complaints about them, just as few here complain about Facebook.
Let me ask a simple question:
If Google is so evil, stealing every bit of information they can from you, intruding on your privacy at every opportunity, why is Apple turning you over to them in return for 30 pieces of silver? What would that make Apple?
I don't expect a single one of the resident fear-mongers to answer those questions. I doubt any of them have the cajones.
Yes, yes, we know you are shilling for Google, but, the problems between Apple and Google are evidence that the claims you make above are not true. As usual, you are misrepresenting reality, which, by now, for you, is so habitual that you don't even think about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Well on the other hand if Google is tracking my every move, then there is at least a record of where I was at any given time in the chance that I need an alibi for law enforcement.
All very well and good unless your "alibi" is what put them on to you in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
Credit card can be a concern.
1. Buy an iTunes voucher, using cash, from a store across town, in another state while wearing a cap and sunglasses to obscure your face from security camera's.
2. Remove credit card from account or use a voucher to set up your account in the first place.
Personally I prefer the convenience of linking to a credit card, although I also buy iTunes vouchers when they are discounted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Well on the other hand if Google is tracking my every move, then there is at least a record of where I was at any given time in the chance that I need an alibi for law enforcement.
All very well and good unless your "alibi" is what put them on to you in the first place.
That is a risk I am willing to take because the odds are much more likely that I would walk out of my house and be struck by an asteroid than be suspected of any illegal activity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Let me ask a simple question:
If Google is so evil, stealing every bit of information they can from you, intruding on your privacy at every opportunity, why is Apple turning you over to them in return for 30 pieces of silver? What would that make Apple?
I don't expect a single one of the resident fear-mongers to answer those questions. I doubt any of them have the cajones.
Selling an opportunity to Google which can be overridden by the user changing preferences...
...unless Google acts to override them without consent, again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
Selling an opportunity to Google which can be overridden by the user changing preferences...
...unless Google acts to override them without consent, again
So it's perfectly OK for Apple to sell their innocent and unaware users to the evil, spying, privacy stealing Google Search as long as there's something in it for Apple too? That makes Apple sound a bit slimy. Perhaps the truer explanation would be that Apple doesn't consider Google to be any of the above, putting it's users put in harm's way by making Google the default search engine in return for some blood-money. I seriously doubt you want to accuse Apple of playing the part of Judas, nor should you IMO. You do trust Apple's decision-making don't you?
Both companies do what they do for the money when all is said and done. Neither is going to take a chance on killing their cash cows by betraying the users of their products and services.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
There's no reason to think they will. And, it's a mistake to confuse "gesture friendly" with "touch-ready". One does not equate with the other.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see, but all signs point in that direction. OS X is becoming more similar to iOS each year; they will likely be two faces of the same coin in Apple's next operating system (more related than the base that OS X serves as for iOS currently).
You're right that gesture-friendly and touch-ready are different. The gestures already work just as well on the trackpad as they would on the touch screen. What about full-screen apps and the launchpad? Full screen apps are less useful from the perspective of a mouse or trackpad user because the menu bar containing most of the functions is hidden until you hover for a second at the top. It's easy enough to switch between applications using gestures, so there's no advantage in ease of switching. They make more sense in a touch environment because it gives the potential for every UI icon to use more space, eliminating space wasted by unnecessary UI elements like the dock.
On to the launchpad, information could be presented in a more space-efficient way if a mouse is being used. The icons have a gracious amount of space between them because it helps with accurate touches. Why implement a touch interface so early? Apple wants its customers to be as comfortable as possible with UI changes. Right now, the launchpad is an accessory, but later it will probably take a much more prominent role in the OS. It makes for one less jarring change in OS 11.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
So it's perfectly OK for Apple to sell their innocent and unaware users to the evil, spying, privacy stealing Google Search as long as there's something in it for Apple too? That makes Apple sound a bit slimy. Perhaps the truer explanation would be that Apple doesn't consider Google to be any of the above, putting it's users put in harm's way by making Google the default search engine in return for some blood-money. I seriously doubt you want to accuse Apple of playing the part of Judas, nor should you IMO. You do trust Apple's decision-making don't you?
Both companies do what they do for the money when all is said and done. Neither is going to take a chance on killing their cash cows by betraying the users of their products and services.
*faceplam* Your online reputation management skills are getting more noticeable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkndrublic
*faceplam* Your online reputation management skills are getting more noticeable.
Just to be clear is that a vote for "Apple is slimy" or "Apple doesn't consider Google evil"? I don't want to misread your intent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Wearable computers might be very alien to Apple. They might have to change their modus operandi to allow for a lot of variety in sizes, shapes, looks because apparel is so varied.
Yes. Or maybe once computer hardware gets so small and ubiquitous it will just come "for free" in your Ray Bans or Tiffany bracelet, and computer companies will partner with the fashion houses to get their ecosystem on the clothes. e.g. your new diamond earrings have a Powered by Apple logo on the box.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
That is a risk I am willing to take because the odds are much more likely that I would walk out of my house and be struck by an asteroid than be suspected of any illegal activity.
A lot of people, even today, are wrongly convicted each year, a lot more than are struck by meteors. The "risks" of Big Data are much higher than you think.