I guess this is where we disagree. Because the average person is looking to buy a phone, not a mainframe that requires a college degree in computer science.
The average user is not a pimpled faced 17 year old nerd living in their mom's basement and spending hours rooting their phone.
The average user is somebody like a mom or a grandmother, and they are not interested in being "educated" in order to properly and safely use their devices. They just want a phone that works.
No, we don't really disagree on that point. I'm saying I know exactly what you're talking about, and I see it on a daily basis because of the field of work I'm in. All I'm saying is that it's hard for me to feel sorry for people who screw up, then blame an inanimate object.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackTheRat
In much the same way that the GUI wasn't real computing…you had to go to the DOS command line for that, apparently.
Wow, when was the last time anyone used that argument? Seems like you're really reaching here.
Apple marketing chief Phil Schiller made a rare appearance on Twitter on Thursday to ding the security situation on Google's Android mobile operating system, linking to a report showing that Android malware threats are on the rise.
Sounds like a job for Space Ghost or his web-space equivalent Norton.
Apple's iOS, despite accounting for 22 percent of all smartphones shipped worldwide, is apparently nowhere near as vulnerable as Android.
Marketshare doesn't cover it either because Android is on 600-700 million devices and iOS is on over 500 million. And on top of that, iOS owners browse the web more. Security by obscurity is a redundant argument in this case.
I complete various banking transactions on a weekly basis on my Nexus 4, and have not had an issue to date (I've been using Android for a few years now).
All this report really says to me is what anyone using ANY platform should already know, which is to be smart about what you install on your phone.
The banking example in the article was a pretty sophisticated attack. It infected the PCs first, intercepted banking transactions and asked to verify them via mobile phone. It then sent an SMS with a link called "security update", which infected the phone - a believable SMS as the user requested it. The malware on the PC then made fraudulent transactions, which the infected phone verified without the user knowing.
It's one thing for Mac users to be complacent about security in the face of a handful of threats but it's quite another for Android users to be complacent in light of all the existing malware. The rate of threats also doesn't look like it's slowing down.
iOS has had viruses already. Every OS has. Difference between iOS and Android. When I download an app, I get to see the permissions it is requesting and I can deny them. You put all your faith in Apple and if they screwed up, "Oh well. Sucks for you." Apple treats you like your kids. You enjoy being dominated. You welcome it.
I rather put my faith in Apple than in the hundreds of developers on Android.
I don't know about Android users, but I value my info, and there is no way that I would put all of my personal info at risk just to save a buck or two. I'm talking about various bank account info, credit card info, trading firm info, email info, online retail info, various passwords etc............And somebody expects me to put all of that on an Android device, that is about as secure as a safe made out of cardboard?
I just completed a bank transfer earlier today on my iPad. No way in hell would I have ever done that on any Android device.
...and had it been done on an Android phone, the PIN number would have been 1234.
As they say, "The difference between stupidity and genius is that there is a limit to genius."
Hence why I cringe when an average person asks me for Admin Rights on a work laptop, so they can install some mundane piece of software. Again, this goes back to my point of stating that users are the weakest link, and they should be educated. If they chose not to educate themselves, or ignore those who try, then I have a hard time feeling sorry for them.
I think you may be referring to people being ignorant of social engineered fraud. Even in this day people are still wiring large amounts of cash to Nigeria.
I think you may be referring to people being ignorant of social engineered fraud. Even in this day people are still wiring large amounts of cash to Nigeria.
But it was for an inheritance from someone i never met.
Wow, Android threatens Apple so much that they have to tweet bad stuff about them? No wonder shares are going down, Apple's resorting to Samsung tactics :no:
In this report, they included apps that you intentionally install to monitor your phone. (They didn't call them malware; they listed them as "monitor" apps, but did include them in their overall threat chart.)
Otherwise, it looks like none of the trojans came from the Google Play Store. Can anyone find one from this list like that?
They also required the user to turn on "loading from untrusted sources", and engage in risky behavior such as installing an app from a suspicious text, that claims to be a free game and yet wants access to your contacts and SMS.
Therefore, as far as I can tell from cross-searching McAfee's files, most affected very few people (in some cases, under 50), and in limited parts of the world, such as Spain or Italy or Southeast Asia.
--
This is a publicity grab like that other report saying iOS "leaked more info".
Doesn't matter what OS the report is supposed to be about, these things are mostly an advertisement from an anti-virus maker, drumming up business.
Don't jailbreak or turn on outside sources, exercise common sense, and the threat level is near zero.
Otherwise, it looks like none of the trojans came from the Google Play Store. Can anyone find one from this list like that?
They also required the user to turn on "loading from untrusted sources", and engage in risky behavior such as installing an app from a suspicious text, that claims to be a free game and yet wants access to your contacts and SMS.
Don't jailbreak or turn on outside sources, exercise common sense, and the threat level is near zero.
While I would tend to agree that these articles give the wrong impression of the situation, there are valid issues with the Google / Android model:
"According to Brian Krebs, if you go into the deep "underweb" a world of cyercrimals and security attackers, there is a forum he recently came across where an Android malware developer was "actively buying up verified developer accounts at Google Play for $100 apiece".
Unsurprisingly, this particular entrepreneur also sells an Android SMS malware package that targets customers of Citibank, HSBC and ING, as well as 66 other financial institutions in Australia, France, India, Italy, Germany, New Zealand, Singapore, Spain, Switzerland and Turkey (the complete list is here). The targeted banks offer text messages as a form of multi-factor authentication, and this bot is designed to intercept all incoming SMS messages on infected Android phones."
The banking malware was the one mentioned in the AI article and stole millions from thousands of customers. If it showed up as legit from the Google Play Store, users have no protection. Google would have no choice but to put in stricter measures to filter their store just like Apple.
If it gets to the point where nobody recommends getting 3rd party apps and Google has a strictly curated app store, isn't that just a walled garden with a locked gate?
Wow, when was the last time anyone used that argument? {that 'real computers use command lines'} Seems like you're really reaching here.
Not really. It's the same argument, even though it has been modified.
There have been endless varieties of this argument:
- Real computers use command lines, GUIs are for losers
- Real programmers program in assembly
- Real power users have to be able to tweak every element of their mobile phone
- Real computer users know how to edit the registry.
And so on. And on. And on.
For decades, people have been arguing that a simple, user friendly experience must somehow be the antithesis of powerful computing. They've never been able to justify that position, but it keeps coming back in slightly different forms.
In reality, if there's one thing that computer history teaches, it's that if you want to see the devices that the entire industry will be using tomorrow, look at Apple's products of today.
Not really. It's the same argument, even though it has been modified.
There have been endless varieties of this argument:
- Real computers use command lines, GUIs are for losers
- Real programmers program in assembly
- Real power users have to be able to tweak every element of their mobile phone
- Real computer users know how to edit the registry.
And so on. And on. And on.
For decades, people have been arguing that a simple, user friendly experience must somehow be the antithesis of powerful computing. They've never been able to justify that position, but it keeps coming back in slightly different forms.
In reality, if there's one thing that computer history teaches, it's that if you want to see the devices that the entire industry will be using tomorrow, look at Apple's products of today.
I cringe at the thought of one of my Average Users modifying the registry.
But to your last point, I guess it could be said that if you want to see iOS' features of tomorrow, look at Android today.
That needs to go on the list. You remember what Android used to look like?
I don't think that malware feature is coming to iOS anytime soon.
I do. I also remember a time where iOS didn't support MMS, didn't have spell check, didn't have a notification bar, didn't have facebook integration, didn't have turn by turn navigation...and on and on and on!
I do. I also remember a time where iOS didn't support MMS, didn't have spell check, didn't have a notification bar, didn't have facebook integration, didn't have turn by turn navigation...and on and on and on!
By all means go on and on and on. Only the notification bar can be justified as having been influenced by Android. Copy/paste was delayed by Apple until they could do it properly so that things like this don't happen:
By contrast, Android went from a Blackberry rip-off to an iPhone rip-off in its first 2 years on the market:
December 2007:
September 2008 (Android v1, 1.5 years after the iPhone):
Finally in 2009, software keyboard:
Apple adds a drop-down panel and somehow using one puts them behind Android and now Android is the driving force behind all the innovation? This malware problem is just another example of things Google tried to do to mimic Apple but did them in a way that benefitted Google and ended up taking out the quality control that makes Apple products better.
By all means go on and on and on. Only the notification bar can be justified as having been influenced by Android. Copy/paste was delayed by Apple until they could do it properly so that things like this don't happen:
By contrast, Android went from a Blackberry rip-off to an iPhone rip-off in its first 2 years on the market:
December 2007:
By November of 2007 Google had also demoed a touchscreen proof-of-concept Android phone. They weren't just looking at Microsoft or Blackberry-esque designs. There were a few different ones being shown around. It's just the Blackberry one that ever gets mentioned.
EDIT: Marvin, that's not to be misconstrued as support for NextGenRex. It isn't.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple
I guess this is where we disagree. Because the average person is looking to buy a phone, not a mainframe that requires a college degree in computer science.
The average user is not a pimpled faced 17 year old nerd living in their mom's basement and spending hours rooting their phone.
The average user is somebody like a mom or a grandmother, and they are not interested in being "educated" in order to properly and safely use their devices. They just want a phone that works.
No, we don't really disagree on that point. I'm saying I know exactly what you're talking about, and I see it on a daily basis because of the field of work I'm in. All I'm saying is that it's hard for me to feel sorry for people who screw up, then blame an inanimate object.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackTheRat
In much the same way that the GUI wasn't real computing…you had to go to the DOS command line for that, apparently.
Wow, when was the last time anyone used that argument? Seems like you're really reaching here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity
Android users deserve to have their bank accounts raped.
Do homeless people even have bank accounts?
I don't even... what a stupid thing to say.
I don't own an Android device, or a Windows device, but I don't wish harm on people that use other platforms.
Sounds like a job for Space Ghost or his web-space equivalent Norton.
Marketshare doesn't cover it either because Android is on 600-700 million devices and iOS is on over 500 million. And on top of that, iOS owners browse the web more. Security by obscurity is a redundant argument in this case.
The banking example in the article was a pretty sophisticated attack. It infected the PCs first, intercepted banking transactions and asked to verify them via mobile phone. It then sent an SMS with a link called "security update", which infected the phone - a believable SMS as the user requested it. The malware on the PC then made fraudulent transactions, which the infected phone verified without the user knowing.
It's one thing for Mac users to be complacent about security in the face of a handful of threats but it's quite another for Android users to be complacent in light of all the existing malware. The rate of threats also doesn't look like it's slowing down.
I rather put my faith in Apple than in the hundreds of developers on Android.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
They do indeed.
I don't know about Android users, but I value my info, and there is no way that I would put all of my personal info at risk just to save a buck or two. I'm talking about various bank account info, credit card info, trading firm info, email info, online retail info, various passwords etc............And somebody expects me to put all of that on an Android device, that is about as secure as a safe made out of cardboard?
I just completed a bank transfer earlier today on my iPad. No way in hell would I have ever done that on any Android device.
...and had it been done on an Android phone, the PIN number would have been 1234.
As they say, "The difference between stupidity and genius is that there is a limit to genius."
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1stGenRex
Hence why I cringe when an average person asks me for Admin Rights on a work laptop, so they can install some mundane piece of software. Again, this goes back to my point of stating that users are the weakest link, and they should be educated. If they chose not to educate themselves, or ignore those who try, then I have a hard time feeling sorry for them.
I think you may be referring to people being ignorant of social engineered fraud. Even in this day people are still wiring large amounts of cash to Nigeria.
But it was for an inheritance from someone i never met.
As always, read these with a pinch of salt.
In this report, they included apps that you intentionally install to monitor your phone. (They didn't call them malware; they listed them as "monitor" apps, but did include them in their overall threat chart.)
Otherwise, it looks like none of the trojans came from the Google Play Store. Can anyone find one from this list like that?
They also required the user to turn on "loading from untrusted sources", and engage in risky behavior such as installing an app from a suspicious text, that claims to be a free game and yet wants access to your contacts and SMS.
Therefore, as far as I can tell from cross-searching McAfee's files, most affected very few people (in some cases, under 50), and in limited parts of the world, such as Spain or Italy or Southeast Asia.
--
This is a publicity grab like that other report saying iOS "leaked more info".
Doesn't matter what OS the report is supposed to be about, these things are mostly an advertisement from an anti-virus maker, drumming up business.
Don't jailbreak or turn on outside sources, exercise common sense, and the threat level is near zero.
While I would tend to agree that these articles give the wrong impression of the situation, there are valid issues with the Google / Android model:
http://www.idigitaltimes.com/articles/15826/20130308/android-malware-abounds-even-google-play-store.htm
"According to Brian Krebs, if you go into the deep "underweb" a world of cyercrimals and security attackers, there is a forum he recently came across where an Android malware developer was "actively buying up verified developer accounts at Google Play for $100 apiece".
Unsurprisingly, this particular entrepreneur also sells an Android SMS malware package that targets customers of Citibank, HSBC and ING, as well as 66 other financial institutions in Australia, France, India, Italy, Germany, New Zealand, Singapore, Spain, Switzerland and Turkey (the complete list is here). The targeted banks offer text messages as a form of multi-factor authentication, and this bot is designed to intercept all incoming SMS messages on infected Android phones."
The banking malware was the one mentioned in the AI article and stole millions from thousands of customers. If it showed up as legit from the Google Play Store, users have no protection. Google would have no choice but to put in stricter measures to filter their store just like Apple.
If it gets to the point where nobody recommends getting 3rd party apps and Google has a strictly curated app store, isn't that just a walled garden with a locked gate?
Not really. It's the same argument, even though it has been modified.
There have been endless varieties of this argument:
- Real computers use command lines, GUIs are for losers
- Real programmers program in assembly
- Real power users have to be able to tweak every element of their mobile phone
- Real computer users know how to edit the registry.
And so on. And on. And on.
For decades, people have been arguing that a simple, user friendly experience must somehow be the antithesis of powerful computing. They've never been able to justify that position, but it keeps coming back in slightly different forms.
In reality, if there's one thing that computer history teaches, it's that if you want to see the devices that the entire industry will be using tomorrow, look at Apple's products of today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Not really. It's the same argument, even though it has been modified.
There have been endless varieties of this argument:
- Real computers use command lines, GUIs are for losers
- Real programmers program in assembly
- Real power users have to be able to tweak every element of their mobile phone
- Real computer users know how to edit the registry.
And so on. And on. And on.
For decades, people have been arguing that a simple, user friendly experience must somehow be the antithesis of powerful computing. They've never been able to justify that position, but it keeps coming back in slightly different forms.
In reality, if there's one thing that computer history teaches, it's that if you want to see the devices that the entire industry will be using tomorrow, look at Apple's products of today.
I cringe at the thought of one of my Average Users modifying the registry.
But to your last point, I guess it could be said that if you want to see iOS' features of tomorrow, look at Android today.
I don't think that malware feature is coming to iOS anytime soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
I don't think that malware feature is coming to iOS anytime soon.
I do. I also remember a time where iOS didn't support MMS, didn't have spell check, didn't have a notification bar, didn't have facebook integration, didn't have turn by turn navigation...and on and on and on!
By all means go on and on and on. Only the notification bar can be justified as having been influenced by Android. Copy/paste was delayed by Apple until they could do it properly so that things like this don't happen:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/feb/22/samsung-copy-paste-problem
By contrast, Android went from a Blackberry rip-off to an iPhone rip-off in its first 2 years on the market:
December 2007:
September 2008 (Android v1, 1.5 years after the iPhone):
Finally in 2009, software keyboard:
Apple adds a drop-down panel and somehow using one puts them behind Android and now Android is the driving force behind all the innovation? This malware problem is just another example of things Google tried to do to mimic Apple but did them in a way that benefitted Google and ended up taking out the quality control that makes Apple products better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
By all means go on and on and on. Only the notification bar can be justified as having been influenced by Android. Copy/paste was delayed by Apple until they could do it properly so that things like this don't happen:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/feb/22/samsung-copy-paste-problem
By contrast, Android went from a Blackberry rip-off to an iPhone rip-off in its first 2 years on the market:
December 2007:
By November of 2007 Google had also demoed a touchscreen proof-of-concept Android phone. They weren't just looking at Microsoft or Blackberry-esque designs. There were a few different ones being shown around. It's just the Blackberry one that ever gets mentioned.
EDIT: Marvin, that's not to be misconstrued as support for NextGenRex. It isn't.
Copy/Paste issue was caused by TouchWiz, not Android. It's RIGHT THERE in the first sentence!
Originally Posted by 1stGenRex
Copy/Paste issue was caused by TouchWiz, not Android. It's RIGHT THERE in the first sentence!
What's your point?