I hope someone makes an app that teaches regular people how they can get their own zombie corporation that doesn't pay taxes and have their salary be funneled through it. That way every American citizen can avoid paying taxes.
I have a feeling that if I were to incorporate a foreign subsidiary of myself and licensed my intellectual property rights to that entity, and then start deducting license fee payments to that entity from my gross income on my tax return, I would get in serious trouble with IRS. Why do corporations get a break?
Even if you didn't get into trouble, at the amount an individual makes, the cost to set it up and manage it would be more than you save.
Once you get into the billions, the running costs of doing it are insignificant in comparison to the savings.
Same reason Mitt Romney was doing nothing illegal in having a much lower effective tax rate than most of us. Once you get to be mega-rich, the tax code can be manipulated in your favor.
Hell, I pay less tax as a percentage of income than people poorer than me because I earn enough to have a massive mortgage and poorer people have to rent. I'm thankful for that, but I'm not convinced it's right.
The question is, why do our politicians allow it to be legal?
If it was Illegal, politicians would have spend the money like it has always done to create nothing. It is better that corporations hold money than our government. I would love to get the same preference but our power is so small in front of these Criminals (government). At least we can invest in companies who win against government!
Has government ever made money? They only created one thing in US "HUGE DEBT- Made In America"
I do not like either party. They are all criminals in one way or the other
Unfortunately this is a political witch hunt. Because Apple is very profitable, Apple will be found guilty of hiding billions of taxes, then Apple would appeal, and end up paying a small token penalty and the show will drag on for month. Apple gain nothing to testify and should just say we are sorry and we have been doing this for years and we are ready to negotiate the price being the most valuable company.
What are you talking about?
Apple has broken no laws. They've not been accused or charged with breaking any laws. They've not been indicted on anything. And there is no trial.
Apple has broken no laws. They've not been accused or charged with breaking any laws. They've not been indicted on anything. And there is no trial.
Am I missing something here?
It's a tried and tested route that the political system follows. Apple has broken no laws, but Standard Chartered Bank had broken no laws either (they never had a trial), but the political system made such a noise and caused them such reputational damage that they paid a large "fine" just to make the whole thing go away.
What's going on is little more than extortion. "Give us more money or we'll wreck your reputation".
Tim Cook: Now listen to me or f@uck off! I need to go and get ready for WWDC.
!
Lol that pretty accurately sums it up Apple hasn't done anything wrong but hopefully after the senators will and come up with that will let them figure out how to ensure revenue whose source is inside the US stays in the US. All the legitimate revenues overseas can stay overseas.
I like a sales/consumption tax myself. Fair, but inherently progressive- the rich do tend to buy more stuff.
It would be freakin' awesome if Apple proposed legitimate ways to improve the tax code, but its a little bit like the hens are asking the fox for advice on how they can build a more secure henhouse.
"Now of course I am minimising my tax. And if anyone in this country doesn't minimise their tax they want their heads read. Because as a Government, I can tell you, you're not spending it so well that we should be donating extra."
Unfortunately this is a political witch hunt. Because Apple is very profitable, Apple will be found guilty of hiding billions of taxes, then Apple would appeal, and end up paying a small token penalty and the show will drag on for month. Apple gain nothing to testify and should just say we are sorry and we have been doing this for years and we are ready to negotiate the price being the most valuable company.
Yep. The laws allow this to happen but Congress doesn't want to admit they created this mess.
And I'm still waiting for their proof of Apple's motives or that the money overseas came from the US
The Senate report is a snow job, full of innuendoes. Apple has, indeed, paid all taxes owed on US pre-tax income. Problems in Ireland are Ireland's problem, not the US's. This is all fundamentally the result of a messed-up tax code created by the Congress.
But who cares.
Some of us pointed out that Cook made a mistake in agreeing to testify in front of these maroons. I hope we were not right. At a minimum, this is disastrous PR for Apple.
nothing Apple can do about the morons who believe everything their government tells them. Had Cook not testified the the media meme would be wondering what Apple has to hide. I hope Cook goes there and runs circles around these blowhards.
The problem isn't that Apple is doing this, the problem is that it is legal.
I think everyone and every company should pay no more than they legally have to. I do however question why the politicians allow practices that seem to wrong to be perfectly legal.
Google are under investigation for the same practices as Apple are using here. In 2011, Google made GBP3bn in revenue in the UK, but only paid GBP6mn in Corporation taxes, because all the sales were booked through Ireland. The politicians have all been complaining about how evil Google must be for doing that, but the fact is, what they are doing is perfectly legal.
I think what they are doing is wrong, but I can see that it's the politicians who need to fix the problem, not the companies to start voluntarily paying more tax for some reason.
The worst part is, Apple isn't asking for anything outrageous. Simply to have a lower tax hit than the full 35% corporate rate on "repatriated" funds (a bit of a misnomer, since those funds were all generated abroad). They really aren't asking to avoid or eliminate the taxes altogether.
It makes sense to me that we shouldn't be double-taxing that money, or making it less possible to "write off" against it. They don't suffer the same "full tax" hit on domestic funds.
Why would the government want to damage successful companies like that by draining them of funds? 35% (on top of any taxes they already paid abroad) is pretty harsh… so much for a healthy profit margin, eh?
I agree this amounts to nothing more than politicians, who wrote the law, looking to make the average person think they actually care about "corporate greed"
Sure beats actually trying to fix the laws that Apple isn't breaking anyway.
As the great Walt Disney said "The way to get started is to stop talking and start doing."
I keep hearing every April 15th that GE paid $0 in US income tax. Why aren't they testifying? Could it be that they have bought and paid for the very senators running this witch hunt? PJ O'Rourke was right when he titled his book "Pariliment of Whores".
I believe that GE has received a pretty hefty tax refund rather than paying any taxes
I hope someone makes an app that teaches regular people how they can get their own zombie corporation that doesn't pay taxes and have their salary be funneled through it. That way every American citizen can avoid paying taxes.
I'm curious do you take any deductions when you file your taxes? If you do, based on your argument, you're avoiding paying taxes.
Ireland is one of many many countries that competes for the business of multinationals. It does so open and fairly. Other countries are free to follow suit.
In most cases it is not the Irish tax rate that is the main issue. Google for example made 9 billion in Europe last year. Those sales are predominantly organised through the European HQ in Dublin, which I should add employs 3,000 people, and before there's a tax cut they send 95% to Bermuda to a subsidiary that owns their IP for search, as allowed by US law.
Apple employs 4,000 people in Ireland. Yes, Ireland has a flexible corporate tax rate, but we are entitled to do so. Just as the US is entitled to change it's own rules to make it more difficult for US companies to avoid billions in tax.
Ireland is just lucky in that unlike other tax havens, Ireland is in the EU, speaks English and has a young well educated workforce. People can say what they like, but if it's just tax avoidance Apple wants, then there are many other places better suited to it.
Just hours after Apple published the full testimony which CEO Tim Cook plans to give to the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations in the U.S. Senate, the government body issued its own findings on the company's offshore tax practices, saying subsidiaries were used to purposefully avoid paying billions of dollars in domestic taxes.
Yeah, Apple simply created subsidiaries in different countries for tax reasons. It had nothing to do with legal requirements in different countries or trying to serve their customers.
US Senators are, by and large, idiots. The entire premise (that Apple's entire business belongs to the US government and anything Apple does elsewhere is evil) is absurd.
The really sad thing is the hypocrisy. With GOP politicians are arguing that they should get the government out of our lives, they're also arguing that they have a right to Apple's entire business - even that which has absolutely nothing to do with the US.
I hope someone makes an app that teaches regular people how they can get their own zombie corporation that doesn't pay taxes and have their salary be funneled through it. That way every American citizen can avoid paying taxes.
I really wish that people who don't have any concept of subjects would stop posting ridiculous comments like that.
There is no legal way for you to do what you're describing. Furthermore, it's absolutely nothing like what Apple does.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by macshark
I have a feeling that if I were to incorporate a foreign subsidiary of myself and licensed my intellectual property rights to that entity, and then start deducting license fee payments to that entity from my gross income on my tax return, I would get in serious trouble with IRS. Why do corporations get a break?
Even if you didn't get into trouble, at the amount an individual makes, the cost to set it up and manage it would be more than you save.
Once you get into the billions, the running costs of doing it are insignificant in comparison to the savings.
Same reason Mitt Romney was doing nothing illegal in having a much lower effective tax rate than most of us. Once you get to be mega-rich, the tax code can be manipulated in your favor.
Hell, I pay less tax as a percentage of income than people poorer than me because I earn enough to have a massive mortgage and poorer people have to rent. I'm thankful for that, but I'm not convinced it's right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson
The question is, why do our politicians allow it to be legal?
If it was Illegal, politicians would have spend the money like it has always done to create nothing. It is better that corporations hold money than our government. I would love to get the same preference but our power is so small in front of these Criminals (government). At least we can invest in companies who win against government!
Has government ever made money? They only created one thing in US "HUGE DEBT- Made In America"
I do not like either party. They are all criminals in one way or the other
Quote:
Originally Posted by winstein2010
Unfortunately this is a political witch hunt. Because Apple is very profitable, Apple will be found guilty of hiding billions of taxes, then Apple would appeal, and end up paying a small token penalty and the show will drag on for month. Apple gain nothing to testify and should just say we are sorry and we have been doing this for years and we are ready to negotiate the price being the most valuable company.
What are you talking about?
Apple has broken no laws. They've not been accused or charged with breaking any laws. They've not been indicted on anything. And there is no trial.
Am I missing something here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso
What are you talking about?
Apple has broken no laws. They've not been accused or charged with breaking any laws. They've not been indicted on anything. And there is no trial.
Am I missing something here?
It's a tried and tested route that the political system follows. Apple has broken no laws, but Standard Chartered Bank had broken no laws either (they never had a trial), but the political system made such a noise and caused them such reputational damage that they paid a large "fine" just to make the whole thing go away.
What's going on is little more than extortion. "Give us more money or we'll wreck your reputation".
Politicians in this country are entirely immoral.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson
The problem isn't that Apple is doing this, the problem is that it is legal.
The problem is that that should have to.
Please investigate these senators for hiding money. I bet some things would be uncovered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by helicopterben
Senators: Blah Blah Blah
Tim Cook: Is that Illegal?
Senators:
Tim Cook: Are you guys done questioning?
Senators:
Tim Cook: Now listen to me or f@uck off! I need to go and get ready for WWDC.
!
Lol that pretty accurately sums it up
I like a sales/consumption tax myself. Fair, but inherently progressive- the rich do tend to buy more stuff.
It would be freakin' awesome if Apple proposed legitimate ways to improve the tax code, but its a little bit like the hens are asking the fox for advice on how they can build a more secure henhouse.
- Kerry Packer
Yep. The laws allow this to happen but Congress doesn't want to admit they created this mess.
And I'm still waiting for their proof of Apple's motives or that the money overseas came from the US
I agree this amounts to nothing more than politicians, who wrote the law, looking to make the average person think they actually care about "corporate greed"
Sure beats actually trying to fix the laws that Apple isn't breaking anyway.
As the great Walt Disney said "The way to get started is to stop talking and start doing."
Quote:
Originally Posted by mactoid
I keep hearing every April 15th that GE paid $0 in US income tax. Why aren't they testifying? Could it be that they have bought and paid for the very senators running this witch hunt? PJ O'Rourke was right when he titled his book "Pariliment of Whores".
I believe that GE has received a pretty hefty tax refund rather than paying any taxes
Ireland is one of many many countries that competes for the business of multinationals. It does so open and fairly. Other countries are free to follow suit.
In most cases it is not the Irish tax rate that is the main issue. Google for example made 9 billion in Europe last year. Those sales are predominantly organised through the European HQ in Dublin, which I should add employs 3,000 people, and before there's a tax cut they send 95% to Bermuda to a subsidiary that owns their IP for search, as allowed by US law.
Apple employs 4,000 people in Ireland. Yes, Ireland has a flexible corporate tax rate, but we are entitled to do so. Just as the US is entitled to change it's own rules to make it more difficult for US companies to avoid billions in tax.
Ireland is just lucky in that unlike other tax havens, Ireland is in the EU, speaks English and has a young well educated workforce. People can say what they like, but if it's just tax avoidance Apple wants, then there are many other places better suited to it.
Shoot, I avoid paying taxes every day. I rather pay for something on amazon and wait for it to ship to save on paying sales tax.
I legitimately want to pay as low a percentage of my income as Apple pays. The government will just use it to buy more drones to kill people
Yeah, Apple simply created subsidiaries in different countries for tax reasons. It had nothing to do with legal requirements in different countries or trying to serve their customers.
US Senators are, by and large, idiots. The entire premise (that Apple's entire business belongs to the US government and anything Apple does elsewhere is evil) is absurd.
The really sad thing is the hypocrisy. With GOP politicians are arguing that they should get the government out of our lives, they're also arguing that they have a right to Apple's entire business - even that which has absolutely nothing to do with the US.
I really wish that people who don't have any concept of subjects would stop posting ridiculous comments like that.
There is no legal way for you to do what you're describing. Furthermore, it's absolutely nothing like what Apple does.