Developer secretly tested new Mac Pro for weeks inside Apple's 'Evil Lab'



  • Reply 81 of 180
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 19,420member


    Originally Posted by Woochifer View Post

    Tech reviewers and bloggers in general are some of the most jaded and bored egomaniacs anywhere.  

    And the fact that they get paid a pittance -- if they get paid at all -- often only adds to their bitterness.

  • Reply 82 of 180

    Well, there you go.  It's official.  Heavy weight developers, 'The Foundry' tested the bad ass Vader Pro in Apple's 'Evil Lab.'




    They're saying that Apple's revolutionary (and it is!) Mac Pro kicks ass.  That it currently blows PC equivalents out the water.  More ass kicking.


    I'll take the Foundry and Pixar over the doubters (whoever they are...) any time.  It's quite an endorsement.


    More so, the fact that the Foundry ported their Mari program in just a week?


    Strange thing?


    Given all the screaming, cryin' and gnashing of teeth (don't forget sack cloth and ash...) going on wit the 'pros' over the last couple o' years...


    We've had Autocad?  Mari?  (And numerous and increasing amount of 'Pro' apps from the PC side being released onto the Mac side...)  We're getting dual released of many, many graphic apps.  Poser Pro, Photoshop, Lightwave, Painter, Manga Studio.  It's been this way for years though.  But...some of those elusive heavy weight boys like Auto Cad and now Mari?  (I doubt we'll see Studio Max any time soon?)




    What's behind it?


    Well.  Maybe a few things.


    1st.  The WWDC.  Apple sold out in 70 seconds?  Apple are adding millions of developers a year.  That's incredible.  There's an iPad gold rush.  And it needs content.  Apps.  Content.  New generation apps.  As the iPad gets more powerful...  Apple's Mac to develop for it needs to keep a pace to push the envelope, I'm sure.  600 million iDevices is a lot of money!  10 billion paid out to developers.  And it's still going up.  No matter what wallstreet thinks about the lack of 'iThis' of a £95 plastic iPhone to kill Android in unit share.


    The Mac Pro was a significant machine to spearhead this kind of development.  Serious development for a serious market.  It's not separate - the Mac Pro is part of the Apple Eco-System.  The Mac is from the Mini to the laptops to the iMac to the Pro.  They're all decent 'pro' machines in their own context.


    An installed base of 70+ million Mac users and counting.  That's money you can't just walk away from when it takes a 'mere' week to port an app' for the Mac.


    Increasingly, 'pro' level work can be done on anything from a Mini (which was nibbling the ankles of the entry Mac Pro...), an iMac which has hoovered up many of the former 'Mac Pro' territory domains from video, music, 3D, gaming (yes, I said it...), photography.  You no longer need a 'Pro' to do such things.  The Macbook Pro too.  With SSD and an i7 and decent gpu can hold its own to a degree.


    Sure, doing 'Mari' on a Mini might be a stretch.  Well, du-oh! ;)


    However, The Mac as the 'creative' machine has been somewhat democratised for the 'rest of us.'  (it's true mandate...even more so with the iPad...)


    So this porting over of key 'killer' 'pro' software is significant.  And we finally have Apple reaffirming their commitment to their 'high end' customers.


    Mini?  iMac?  Pro?  It's all about just how much computation you want.  And with the Mac Pro.  You're going to get a fulcrum shift.  The Foundry have confirmed Apple's own PR which came from Phil's lips.  Or his 'My ass' :P


    The new preview Darth Pro looks like a land mark release.  Heavy single cpu 12 core computation upto twice as fast?  Super tanker dual GPU as standard for back breaking computation, scorchingly fast SSD on PCIe with faster M/B and Ram?  In something the size of the Cube?


    Pinch me?


    I'm an iMac top of the line owner.  (Love it..)  But...


    I'm looking at Darth Pro covetously.  (That an a 4k monitor?  Somebody stop me...)


    I admit it.  There.  


    Yours, (spiritual Power Mac owner back in '97)


    A couple of questions though.  Is there any reason you can't buy a 2nd Mac Pro and have 2 12 core systems and 2x 2 GPUS as a make shift renderfarm for 3d renders? :)


    2nd.  What's the state of Open GL 4 on the Mac Mavericks?  We've been bemoaning the lack of update to Open GL, now we have 4.x?  But will Apple and AMD turbo boost the 100% deficit of PC vs Mac GPU drivers?  


    Now it's all about Open CL and Open GL, has Apple's Open GL implementation finally slayn the the ghost of poor past GL performance vs PC?


    Sounds like they're finally getting serious about GPUs and GL if they're including two of these babies in the Pro and GL 4.x?




    Lemon Bon Bon.

  • Reply 83 of 180
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 19,420member


    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

    Intuit is another example. The tools are clearly available (which was my point). There are still plenty of idiots in software companies who refuse to use the available tools.

    A bit off-topic, but it remains a mystery to me that the Chairman of this dullard company -- that took forever to produce an Apple-compatible core product -- is on Apple's board.....

  • Reply 84 of 180

    I like the redesign, but I just don't see how the base model will be less than $7,000.  Just look up those components separately and even with costs somehow being pushed down I still come up with around 7k.  The true innovation will be if this is priced in the 3K arena.  If it starts under $3500, it would be silly not to get one for anyone who needs this kind of speed.  Someone show me an example of me being wrong so I can have hope.

  • Reply 85 of 180
    bergermeisterbergermeister Posts: 6,784member


    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

    I don't agree on the prosumer video editing -- that's what I consider myself to be doing.

    I have a Loaded iMac 27" 3.4 GHz Intel Core i7... and it always worked quite well...

    Then I installed OSX Mavericks, and it's like a totally new machine.

    It is fast and fluid -- and FCPX hasn't even been upgraded yet to take advantage of the new features of Mavericks.

    It runs a lot cooler because of "AppNap" and the new power management.

    You have to experience pan/zoom in 3D Flyover with a map filling the entire 27" display -- nothing compares!

    I already have a couple of Pegasus 12s on Thunderbolt. Likely, I will buy a new iMac when next upgraded...

    But, I want to see the Mac Pro pricing and what's available from Apple in Retina or 4K displays (maybe the next iMac?). It's rather a PITA to scale down video from the Retina iPad to display on a non-retina desktop display,


    Same situation here. 

  • Reply 86 of 180


    Originally Posted by Uzimoney View Post

    I like the redesign, but I just don't see how the base model will be less than $7,000.  Just look up those components separately and even with costs somehow being pushed down I still come up with around 7k.  The true innovation will be if this is priced in the 3K arena.  If it starts under $3500, it would be silly not to get one for anyone who needs this kind of speed.  Someone show me an example of me being wrong so I can have hope.

    If Apple can give billions upon billions to shareholders...(I'm not sure S. Jobs ever would have done...)


    ...why can't Apple use it's scale of economic buying power to democratise the 'Pro' workstation.  (Although they have with the Mini/iMac and Macbook Pro Retina to a degree...)  


    Take the iPad.  Everybody thought it would be a £1000 product.  But Apple took a chainsaw to expectations at £399!  Now.  Ofc, we're not talking the same level of scale of economies...


    ...but if they want to move 'more' Pro units a more aggressive entry price would be nice to seize more workstation (whatever that means...) that would otherwise go to windows boxes?


    They've kinda taken on Dell before on price...but they didn't quite stick with it.


    They have offered dual processor Macs (was it up to two models below £2k before now?)  


    Sure, a while ago.


    They've even aggressively brought monitors to the market at prices (initially) that competitors couldn't match.


    They did, historically, offered a 'G5' tower model at £995 for a while.


    If they could scale the price on these from £1295 upto £2k to the uber 12 core.  They could really broaden the 'workstation' market...with one model.  (I consider the iMac a workstation...but that's a separate argument...for me.)  If they want to really drive some units and bring the 'Pro' back in to full unit sales swing AND profit...they've got a windows market to aim at...and a growing Mac market too...


    The pricing is a mystery still.  I guess we could conclude it will be much like the old line.  (And are there any clues that Apple would do something like this considering their partitioned 'up sell' model?  I'm not too optimistic, I guess...)   But the new machine is nothing like the old machine in spec.


    Could we see a true revolution in price as well as spec?


    I hope so.


    Lemon Bon Bon.

  • Reply 87 of 180
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,232moderator
    "All we could see was the monitor, and the Mac Pro was encased in a giant metal filing cabinet on wheels."

    They put it inside an old Mac Pro on wheels? Nice touch.
    Wonder if they will do it in another color too, silver / aluminum?

    I really like the silver metal they use, it's quite symbolic of Apple products and I think it would look nice. They wouldn't have been able to make it shine the way it does though. The intro advert was like how they show off cars with the paintwork reflecting overhead lights.
    cincytee wrote:
    I still question why this machine needs six Thunderbolt ports.

    Daisy chained devices share bandwidth whereas separate ports get the full bandwidth each. Some people will have two displays and 3rd party displays don't have ports on them. This gives you the option to have it either way.
    uzimoney wrote:
    I like the redesign, but I just don't see how the base model will be less than $7,000.

    I priced up a model that could come in at the same $2500 entry price even with 40% gross margins but it depends on what options they offer. If the base config had a quad Xeon and a single entry FirePro, 256GB SSD, 8GB RAM, they could even manage a $1999 entry price, which I think would work quite well for marketing. The GPU options are really what will decide the price points but there's no question they can hit the same entry point as the old model. It doesn't make sense to have it exclusively expensive because that would exponentially cut the target audience. It makes far more sense to have a $1999 entry point. This would actually be less expensive than the Cube when you adjust for inflation. The $1799 Cube from 2000 would be $2300-2400 in 2013.
  • Reply 88 of 180
    muadibemuadibe Posts: 133member


    Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

    How about this as an idea for a Sci-Fi look...

    Consider the the new Mac Pro sitting on, and contained in, a clear tube casing that extends up to become the single support for a clear glass table top...

    And, the table top, when turned on, is also a large multitouch retina display... Wish I had the artistic skills to create an image of this concept!

    Big-Assed [MS Surface] Table... Phil Schiller's ass!

    Sounds like you would be placing a cap over the heating vent.  

  • Reply 89 of 180
    am8449am8449 Posts: 343member

    I'm guessing this new Mac Pro will cost a lot.


    Now that most people are moving to iPads & MacBooks for their daily computing, the Pro desktop can be aimed squarely at professionals who will use this new beast to make money with.  That means they won't mind investing the extra dollars to get a truly powerful machine.


    Gone are the days when you needed a tower Mac to edit video and music.

  • Reply 90 of 180

    Can 2 of the new Pros be daisy chained by Thunderbolt for super-mega-awesomness? What has to be done on the hardware and software to make that work? 


    I am so greedy. 

  • Reply 91 of 180
    mr o wrote: »
    <span style="color:rgb(24,24,24);font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;line-height:18px;">"Can't innovate anymore my ass. Like a boss! </span>
    <img alt="1smoking.gif" id="user_yui_3_10_0_1_1371217226984_1242" src="" style="color:rgb(24,24,24);font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;line-height:1.231;" name="user_yui_3_10_0_1_1371217226984_1242">

    I wish he wouldn't have said that. He is not far off from Balmer. Really the bragging is a bit juvenile, very PC like and unlike the poetry of the mac. I did not at all enjoy the product presentations despite the products being jaw droppingly beautiful. Phil just blew it. Shame. Ive really need to stand up and present the products himself. We need someone with genuine passion.

    How is it bragging when it was the haters and pundits who kept spinning a narrative that said Apple couldn't innovate, or Apple didn't care about pros? And then Apple says nothing for months, except maybe that email from Tim Cook telling a concerned user that Apple plans to refresh the Mac Pro? I think Phil wasn't bragging, but calling out the self-important tech media who produce nothing for the user communities except FUD and LIES.
  • Reply 92 of 180
    I don't know about anyone else..... but.... this new MacPro is wonderful but ..... looks to me like R2D2 in Darth drag. I could see the wheels come down, it already spins, aka the keynote. and then the thing opening up to see the inner guts. How Star Warsy is this ultimate machine?

    They also laughed at the iPad name when it was announced in January 2010. Now who's laughing?
  • Reply 93 of 180
    morkymorky Posts: 180member

    Since Linux was already well supported, I suspect the 1-week port made use of the standard UNIX calls and X11 for presentation. I doubt very many core Apple dev technologies were used, so it was probably a relatively trivial port. That may change as the port develops. The fact that it was the fastest they had ever seen Mari run on any workstation is still impressive for a computer the size of a 40 of Colt45. 


    On an unrelated note, where is the power supply? My guess is they made it a brick to sit on the floor just above your outlet.Made my VIC20 compact in 1981! 

  • Reply 94 of 180

    Hmmm... pricing...

    If you need it,

    If you want it,

    If you must have it,


    Then price is not a consideration...


    My only consideration is...


    Will it allow me to back up my iPhone and iPad on it?




    As was said when the 17" MBP was intro'd:


    "You know you're gunna want one!"


    Or, if possible to rack mount, 2560 for a blazing terascale sys...

  • Reply 95 of 180
    macroninmacronin Posts: 1,174member


    Originally Posted by Morky View Post

    …the size of a 40 of Colt45.

    At 6.6" in diameter & 9.9" tall, I think the new Mac Pro would hold a bit more than 40 ounces of cold, frothy malt liquor…

  • Reply 96 of 180
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,912member
    This really isn't so, at least not in the last three years or so. For example consider the AIRs, an expensive product at first refactored into a very hot seller. It can be argued that the IPad is agressively priced too.

    I'm not saying Apple is cheap but they are very capable of tuning the line up to be very competitive. After all how many we'll constructed Air competitors are there out there. So Apple could position this machine to effectively keep a good portion if the competition at bay.
    jlandd wrote: »
      I don't agree with the argument that it costs x to make so they'll sell it for y.   With Apple there's always been a strong "what the market will bear" strategy and who the prospective buyer is.  I don't think them saving costs from any angle is going to result in a machine that retails for something that anyone except someone with serious needs can rationalize, and Apple knows these people have been waiting and will buy it whether it's $2,750 or $4,750, and the other people won't buy it whether it's $2,750 or $4,750.
    Apple likely has a long tern strategy here. If the want to take work away from the like of HP they need an aggressive price point. Low enough to effectively cut into HPs margins. I believe part of the design goal here was to be able to deliver the highest performance possible at the lowest cost possible.
  • Reply 97 of 180
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,912member
    I d
    Can 2 of the new Pros be daisy chained by Thunderbolt for super-mega-awesomness? What has to be done on the hardware and software to make that work? 

    I am so greedy. 

    I don't really know, I'd be very surprised if it could. I've seen nothing to indicate that the TB hardware is optimized for communications between computers this way. Of course I don't have access to the technical docs to work it out.
  • Reply 98 of 180
    mike fixmike fix Posts: 249member

    All that matters is Cinebench scores...  Let's see some numbers.

  • Reply 99 of 180
    bergermeisterbergermeister Posts: 6,784member


    Originally Posted by lightstriker View Post

    Can 2 of the new Pros be daisy chained by Thunderbolt for super-mega-awesomness? What has to be done on the hardware and software to make that work? 


    I am so greedy. 



    That would be awesome.

  • Reply 100 of 180
    I fucking Love this thing.
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