I love Apple products. I really do. But This is a waste of money. I have family that works in LAUSD and they'll be the first to tell you that rather than buying iPads for kids, a ton of which will be broken and mistreated, they would rather have school supplies and a proper staff.
My mom's school isn't even able to afford a janitor to clean the bathrooms. The kids themselves avoid using them. But hey, they get iPads! Yay! This is such a great example of ignorance at the top.
Our (very small) school depends on a measure of volunteer help, we're not swimming in cash. Our initial iPad buy looks like it'll break even in comparison with paper textbooks within three years (the school system under which we operate is requiring completely new/different textbooks over the next three years, for one thing). The most surprising thing, for me, has been changes in 5-8 grade students' math studies. They've gone from roughly grade-level work, to about 1/3 of the students moving on to from one to five grades worth advancement, once they were let loose to go at their own speed.
We're in a rural central California area, not LAUSD (yay!), but it definitely shows that it doesn't have to be a waste of money, time and effort.
Nah. Billy might get beat up, but only for his iPhone - the bullies are given their own iPad as well. Why beat up someone just to get what you already have?
Not all bullies are still in school, and even if they do have their own.... they sell quickly on the street for $50
Our (very small) school depends on a measure of volunteer help, we're not swimming in cash. Our initial iPad buy looks like it'll break even in comparison with paper textbooks within three years (the school system under which we operate is requiring completely new/different textbooks over the next three years, for one thing). The most surprising thing, for me, has been changes in 5-8 grade students' math studies. They've gone from roughly grade-level work, to about 1/3 of the students moving on to from one to five grades worth advancement, once they were let loose to go at their own speed.
We're in a rural central California area, not LAUSD (yay!), but it definitely shows that it doesn't have to be a waste of money, time and effort.
Thanks for sharing Steve...that's much inline with what I've been reading. My GF is in the special ed field dealing with mildly autistic kids and she is seeing marked improvement when she uses the iPads. Anecdotal, I know, but I don't think I've read anything negative about it.
Now, MS SmartBoards? Ugh! Don't get me started. My GF says, they never work right the first time. She is constantly calling me to ask what to do....I say, "Is it plugged in? OK, restart it!"
The iPad is much more high profile, prolific, and most certainly gets the attention of educators more so than competing products. At the same time those "other products" do get adopted.
Yep. 84 Xoom tablets vs 640,000 iPads. Sounds about right.
Note the decision making process used by the schools in your example. In every case, they were selected by someone who looked solely at initial purchase price. That is a lousy process for choosing technology.
What a fantastic waste of money by CA schools. Demonstrating that our educational administrators are completely out of touch with kids and reality. Have they ever been around kids? Have they seen the way kids treat their textbooks? Scratched, banged up, etc. they take a beating that no iPad could survive and keep on teaching. The replacement costs for broken iPads is going to be 50%. Not to mention the distractions from all the mobile games!
Funny, but my daughter's school had convertible tablets that they purchased for every student - and the breakage rate was a couple percent at most. In fact, I don't recall them ever having to replace any of them. So why would iPads be any different?
I love Apple products. I really do. But This is a waste of money. I have family that works in LAUSD and they'll be the first to tell you that rather than buying iPads for kids, a ton of which will be broken and mistreated, they would rather have school supplies and a proper staff.
My mom's school isn't even able to afford a janitor to clean the bathrooms. The kids themselves avoid using them. But hey, they get iPads! Yay! This is such a great example of ignorance at the top.
Good thing you're not the one making technology decisions. By that standard, schools should never have upgraded from candles to electric lights. And they should never have installed blackboards. Those things were expensive in their day. And white boards are a total waste of money, right?
There are people who are paid to make such decisions based on educational requirements. And technology can help education - as has been shown repeatedly.
If apple could manage to enter the school system in other states than California, they could move a significant amount of ipads.
Apple is already in schools districts in all 50 states. We only hear about the really big purchases. Where do guys like you come up with this utter nonsense anyway?
I have a PhD in computer engineering, and now surround myself with computers, and I will be the first to say that computers DO NOT belong in elementary school classrooms. Kids don't learn "valuable computer skills" in the classroom, especially in the younger grades. Many kids are already surrounded by electronic devices, wouldn't it be nice to get them away from it. No matter how advanced computers get, they do not take the place of human interaction. It's hard enough for kids to socialize properly without electronic devices, and now there are countless kids glued to their mobile devices. Encouraging this behavior is not good for anyone.
The real problem with tablets on the desk is that it's too easy to get distracted. I'm sure we've all wasted countless hours (while we should be working etc) on our devices... I'm doing it right now. Letting kids get started at an early age is not a good idea.
Then of course there's the cost issue. An ipad will last what... 3, 4 years? Sure it will get "up to date" content... but what really changes in elementary education in a 10 year period, what about a 20 year period? Most of the changes made to the curriculum haven't been for the better. We have countless kids who can barely read, they can't do simple math without a calculator, they don't know proper grammar, etc... But boy will they have mobile devices!!! While some kids might learn better with tablets, many won't. The truth of the matter is that tablet devices have not been around long enough for scientific studies to show the long term impact on children's growth. Do we really want to experiment with children's education like this?
Most importantly though, I think of school as the one place where kids should be able to ... be kids. Sure, they have to learn and follow the rules, but they shouldn't be chained to computers. They should experience the real world. It's too easy for young kids to become enamored with the virtual world. It's too easy to not physically interact with other kids.
Looking back on my education, computers were starting to be used... I remember going to the computer lab, and what did I learn? I learned to play where in the world is carmen sandiego, I learned to play number munchers and oregon trail. Highly educational, let me tell you. I actually learned more in 7th grade when I took a typing class (on an actual typewriter!) than all the other years of using actual computers in the classroom (with the exception of the two C++ programming courses I took in high school). Even then, I remember educators talking about how wonderful having the computers was, how much it would help students learn, etc... It just didn't work. With the exception of limited computer use in special classes (like programming, or typing, office skills etc) which tend to focus on middle and high school students, the computers haven't helped, they've just distracted kids from more important things (reading, writing, math, science).
On top of all this, there's the cost. While it's arguably cheaper than text books, I don't really see that. Schools tend to keep text books long past the time they need to be replaced. 5-10 years seems about right, by which point they're pretty beaten up. An ipad simply own't last that long, and there's no way the book publishers are going to charge significantly less for an ebook than a real book... Especially when they realize school districts can keep their ebooks forever, so they won't have a constant money making scheme (the vast majority of the cost of paper books is not the paper or manufacturing...). They'll likely go to subscription schemes, that way they make money indefinitely.
I have a PhD in computer engineering, and now surround myself with computers, and I will be the first to say that computers DO NOT belong in elementary school classrooms. Kids don't learn "valuable computer skills" in the classroom, especially in the younger grades. Many kids are already surrounded by electronic devices, wouldn't it be nice to get them away from it. No matter how advanced computers get, they do not take the place of human interaction. It's hard enough for kids to socialize properly without electronic devices, and now there are countless kids glued to their mobile devices. Encouraging this behavior is not good for anyone.
I'll tell you what. I'll ask the people who are experts in elementary education not to tell you how to design a computer if you'll agree not to try to tell them how to run a classroom.
Do you think the decision to spend $400 M was made on a whim? Have you read any of the examples of how computers have contributed significantly to educational results? Or the ones where iPads, in particular, have improved results significantly (including one example in this thread)?
I'll tell you what. I'll ask the people who are experts in elementary education not to tell you how to design a computer if you'll agree not to try to tell them how to run a classroom.
Do you think the decision to spend $400 M was made on a whim? Have you read any of the examples of how computers have contributed significantly to educational results? Or the ones where iPads, in particular, have improved results significantly (including one example in this thread)?
If you read what i said later, I said that mobile devices haven't been around long enough to show that they positively impact student learning. While there might be isolated studies showing it in certain circumstances, there haven't been studies on students constantly using their devices.
Now, while proving that mobile devices can help is a harder task than showing that they can distract. For instance http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/students-cant-resist-distraction-two-minutes-neither-can-you-1C9984270 quotes research done showing just how distracting these devices are, mostly at college students, but considering the average kids attention span, I imagine the results are worse for elementary school kids (also see http://learning.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/02/are-you-distracted-by-technology/?_r=0 and i'm sure a simple google search will find more). With a book on your desk you might flip ahead and read other (unrelated) material to distract yourself, but with an ipad, the student has the entire internet to distract them. Don't pretend that they won't be distracted by that. I learned that for most of my homework I was far better off doing it in the study lounge where I didn't have my computer to distract me (this was before smart phones). Although I'm just one example, I know I'm not alone, many kids study in the library for the same reason: there are fewer distractions.
I'd argue that the distractions alone are reason enough to stick to real books and avoid ebooks. I've read books on my ipad in the past, and I found the temptation to check every little thing distracting . . . And this was while reading fiction books that I WANTED to read, I couldn't imagine trying to read an actual textbook on there!
I have a PhD in computer engineering, and now surround myself with computers, and I will be the first to say that computers DO NOT belong in elementary school classrooms. Kids don't learn "valuable computer skills" in the classroom, especially in the younger grades....
Except they are not teaching "commuter skills" they are teaching match, english, history, geography, responsibility, research, study, drill and practice, organization, presentation, creative skills and social skills
The real problem with tablets on the desk is that it's too easy to get distracted. I'm sure we've all wasted countless hours (while we should be working etc) on our devices... I'm doing it right now. Letting kids get started at an early age is not a good idea.
It is a simple matter to control what is available on the devices and when -- if you do some research [hint Fraser Speirs iPad Project] you will find that the iPads are much more engaging (less distractive) than almost any other classroom tool.
Then of course there's the cost issue. An ipad will last what... 3, 4 years? Sure it will get "up to date" content... but what really changes in elementary education in a 10 year period, what about a 20 year period? Most of the changes made to the curriculum haven't been for the better. We have countless kids who can barely read, they can't do simple math without a calculator, they don't know proper grammar, etc...
I mentioned in an earlier post that the iPad costs 2%-6% (or less) of the cost-per-pupil of today's US education system. I estimated that the Pads would be replaced every 2 years.
But boy will they have mobile devices!!! While some kids might learn better with tablets, many won't. The truth of the matter is that tablet devices have not been around long enough for scientific studies to show the long term impact on children's growth. Do we really want to experiment with children's education like this?
Can we risk not addressing the miserable education results with the current system?
Most importantly though, I think of school as the one place where kids should be able to ... be kids. Sure, they have to learn and follow the rules, but they shouldn't be chained to computers. They should experience the real world. It's too easy for young kids to become enamored with the virtual world. It's too easy to not physically interact with other kids.
Looking back on my education, computers were starting to be used... I remember going to the computer lab, and what did I learn? I learned to play where in the world is carmen sandiego, I learned to play number munchers and oregon trail. Highly educational, let me tell you. I actually learned more in 7th grade when I took a typing class (on an actual typewriter!) than all the other years of using actual computers in the classroom (with the exception of the two C++ programming courses I took in high school). Even then, I remember educators talking about how wonderful having the computers was, how much it would help students learn, etc... It just didn't work. With the exception of limited computer use in special classes (like programming, or typing, office skills etc) which tend to focus on middle and high school students, the computers haven't helped, they've just distracted kids from more important things (reading, writing, math, science).
Mmmm...
Carmen Sandiego is an American media franchise of educational computer and video games, television series, books, and other media featuring a thieving villain of the same name created by Brøderbund Software. The main premise follows the user or protagonist who become agents of the ACME Detective Agency and attempt to thwart and capture V.I.L.E. ringleader and former ACME agent Carmen Sandiego. The franchise originally focused on teaching geography and history, but later branched out into mathematics, English, and other subjects
Carmen Sandiego was originally created by Brøderbund Software co-founder Gary Carlston and proposed to programmer Dane Bigham in 1983. The idea of the franchise was to create a computer game which would get kids interested in geography, a childhood hobby of Broderbund co-founders Gary and Doug Carlston. Bigham provided the "look and feel" for the game interface from an adventure game he was developing independently and further development was entrusted to the creative "Rubber Room", led by ex-Disney artist Gene Portwood and Lauren Elliott at Brøderbund Software. The game script, graphics and humor were created by Gene Portwood, Lauren Elliott, and writer David Siefkin. An early draft version of the game was written by Gene Portwood and Lauren Elliott and was based in England, chasing Henry VII around London collecting treasures. Another idea proposed was a game based on the Time-Life series of books about great cities of the world. In the end, Carlston decided to base the game on the World Almanac.
On top of all this, there's the cost. While it's arguably cheaper than text books, I don't really see that. Schools tend to keep text books long past the time they need to be replaced. 5-10 years seems about right, by which point they're pretty beaten up. An ipad simply own't last that long, and there's no way the book publishers are going to charge significantly less for an ebook than a real book... Especially when they realize school districts can keep their ebooks forever, so they won't have a constant money making scheme (the vast majority of the cost of paper books is not the paper or manufacturing...). They'll likely go to subscription schemes, that way they make money indefinitely.
Phil
Asked and answered above... The "book" cost is much more than the price of the books themselves... there is expensive warehousing and distribution time (library, classroom, teacher time) that can be better spent on actual education!
And do you really want to defend a system supporting 10-year-old textbooks that were out-of -date the day the were printed?
Except they are not teaching "commuter skills" they are teaching match, english, history, geography, responsibility, research, study, drill and practice, organization, presentation, creative skills and social skills
It is a simple matter to control what is available on the devices and when -- if you do some research [hint Fraser Speirs iPad Project] you will find that the iPads are much more engaging (less distractive) than almost any other classroom tool.
I mentioned in an earlier post that the iPad costs 2%-6% (or less) of the cost-per-pupil of today's US education system. I estimated that the Pads would be replaced every 2 years.
Can we risk not addressing the miserable education results with the current system?
It appears that some of the educational software you used was so good that you didn't even know you were learning...
Asked and answered above... The "book" cost is much more than the price of the books themselves... there is expensive warehousing and distribution time (library, classroom, teacher time) that can be better spent on actual education!
And do you really want to defend a system supporting 10-year-old textbooks that were out-of -date the day the were printed?
First, we need to address the issues facing our education system's miserable results, but giving them more distractions is unlikely to be the answer. As technology has matured, scores in schools have gone down... Doesn't seem like the lack of technology access is responsible for this.
As for carmen sandiego.. .I'll admit I learned some from it, I won't pretend I didn't, HOWEVER the fact is I would have learned FAR more had I spent the same amount of time in a traditional classroom setting. If that's the case the education software was not so good that I didn't know I was learning...It was just a game that taught a few things. You can learn a lot from some games, or watching certain TV shows, but I wouldn't recommend replacing all traditional teaching methods with games and TV.
As for the book cost, I admit it is a huge problem that should be addressed. Honestly, I think most states would be better off writing their own books and self publishing them considering the outrageous cost book publishers want to charge.
As for "And do you really want to defend a system supporting 10-year-old textbooks that were out-of -date the day the were printed?" Are you really going to argue that elementary school math, science, history, and english textbooks are going to be out-of-date in ten years? Do grammar rules change, does arithmetic change? Science does change, but the basics don't change that often. History.... well that happened in the past, sure new theories come up, but again that is stuff that tends to impact higher levels (like college). The one thing that will change somewhat is geography. However, how much world geography is taught in elementary school? Kids learn the continents, and (in the US) tend to learn the states and their capitals. They might learn about geographic features (oceans, seas, mountains, lakes, etc), and some countries, but any map of the world's countries is going to have inaccuracies (at the bare minimum, the most up to date map will contain disputed areas on it). Elementary school kids aren't being taught the names of the countries that are constantly changing, and if they are it's not a huge deal that the map in the book is outdated. The only thing I can think that the book will lack is current events... Things like who is the president, etc. But again, this is changing often, and is easily handled without a book. So what exactly is the HUGE deal with using 10 year old text books (and how will buying digital text books prevent books from becoming outdated)?
I'll tell you what. I'll ask the people who are experts in elementary education not to tell you how to design a computer if you'll agree not to try to tell them how to run a classroom.
Do you think the decision to spend $400 M was made on a whim? Have you read any of the examples of how computers have contributed significantly to educational results? Or the ones where iPads, in particular, have improved results significantly (including one example in this thread)?
If you read what i said later, I said that mobile devices haven't been around long enough to show that they positively impact student learning. While there might be isolated studies showing it in certain circumstances, there haven't been studies on students constantly using their devices.
I'd argue that the distractions alone are reason enough to stick to real books and avoid ebooks. I've read books on my ipad in the past, and I found the temptation to check every little thing distracting . . . And this was while reading fiction books that I WANTED to read, I couldn't imagine trying to read an actual textbook on there!
Phil
Apparently you missed my earlier post about the results of a 3-year experience (arguably better than an abstract study)!
Here it is again -- do a little research and you will find that [most of] the issues you raise have been addressed and resolved -- or were non-issues. For your convenience, I have highlighted various points in blue:
And we all know throwing money at education works right?
Just "throwing money" at anything -- likely won't work!
But that does not mean that you should not spend resources to resolve a problem or improve an enterprise...
Future Shock FRIDAY, JANUARY 29, 2010 AT 10:39AM
I'll have more to say on the iPad later but one can't help being struck by the volume and vehemence of apparently technologically sophisticated people inveighing against the iPad.
Some are trying to dismiss these ravings by comparing them to certain comments made after the launch of the iPod in 2001: "No wireless. Les space than a Nomad. Lame.". I fear this January-26th thinking misses the point.
What you're seeing in the industry's reaction to the iPad is nothing less than future shock.
For years we've all held to the belief that computing had to be made simpler for the 'average person'. I find it difficult to come to any conclusion other than that we have totally failed in this effort.
Secretly, I suspect, we technologists quite liked the idea that Normals would be dependent on us for our technological shamanism. Those incantations that only we can perform to heal their computers, those oracular proclamations that we make over the future and the blessings we bestow on purchasing choices.
The iPad Project: How It's Going THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 23, 2010 AT 7:46PM
So we're now nearly five weeks into the iPad deployment and I thought it was time to update you in some detail.
The Educational Part
So many people have asked me to explain the educational impact of the iPad. I simply can't yet get to grips with everything that's happening. Put simply, the iPad deployment has transformed our school. Not evenly and not everywhere yet, but it's coming.
There are stages to technology adoption. Two important stages are 'replacement' and 'transformation'. With replacement, you take an existing resource and replace it with an essentially identical digital resource. Think of a paper textbook replaced by the same textbook in PDF form. That's not to be sniffed at - there are big advantages to that.
What we're reaching in some classes is the transformation stage. We're seeing the iPad completely change the way that certain subjects are taught. Our best example so far is Art. I will write and share more about what we're doing in Art over time but it's fair to say that it is already far beyond anything I expected in the first year, let alone the first month.
At this point, all I can give you are some practical anecdotes which, I hope, will give you a flavour of the change.
• I picked up a ream of printer paper yesterday. It had dust on top of it.
• Primary 2 pupils have now memorised their passwords. That's not something that happens when they get 40 minutes a week on computers. • Last week, we couldn't get the Primary 3 pupils to stop doing maths and go for lunch. • My daughter April asked me if I could install the educational apps from school on my iPad so she could use them at home.
• We're seeing a reduction in the amount of homework forgotten or not done.
• "Forgetting your folder" for a subject is now a thing of the past.
The one feature that my teachers are crying out for is a way to present the entire iPad UI on a projector. At the moment, it's up to the application how they choose to support the iPad VGA Adapter. Some, such as Brushes, show a 'presentation' style display but almost no applications mirror the entire UI. That's quite technically difficult for a developer, so it would be nice to see something in the OS to support video mirroring.
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Are there any reports to be found that an Android tablet bulk order has been placed by...well, any company or institution? Government?
The iPad is much more high profile, prolific, and most certainly gets the attention of educators more so than competing products. At the same time those "other products" do get adopted.
Sorry for not being clear, I want to know if there's been a 6 figure bulk-order. Not an article about a place where the rolled out 600 tablets, and they're thinking about ordering 1,800 more.
Except they are not teaching "commuter skills" they are teaching match, english, history, geography, responsibility, research, study, drill and practice, organization, presentation, creative skills and social skills
It is a simple matter to control what is available on the devices and when -- if you do some research [hint Fraser Speirs iPad Project] you will find that the iPads are much more engaging (less distractive) than almost any other classroom tool.
I mentioned in an earlier post that the iPad costs 2%-6% (or less) of the cost-per-pupil of today's US education system. I estimated that the Pads would be replaced every 2 years.
Can we risk not addressing the miserable education results with the current system?
It appears that some of the educational software you used was so good that you didn't even know you were learning...
Asked and answered above... The "book" cost is much more than the price of the books themselves... there is expensive warehousing and distribution time (library, classroom, teacher time) that can be better spent on actual education!
And do you really want to defend a system supporting 10-year-old textbooks that were out-of -date the day the were printed?
First, we need to address the issues facing our education system's miserable results, but giving them more distractions is unlikely to be the answer. As technology has matured, scores in schools have gone down... Doesn't seem like the lack of technology access is responsible for this.
I suspect that most students have 1 or 2 periods per week in the computer lab -- usually 2-3 students per computer. While technology may have advanced, I don't think its limited use can be blamed for test scores. Possibly, low standards, teacher salaries, the NEA, tenure, etc. have more to do with it!
As for carmen sandiego.. .I'll admit I learned some from it, I won't pretend I didn't, HOWEVER the fact is I would have learned FAR more had I spent the same amount of time in a traditional classroom setting. If that's the case the education software was not so good that I didn't know I was learning...It was just a game that taught a few things. You can learn a lot from some games, or watching certain TV shows, but I wouldn't recommend replacing all traditional teaching methods with games and TV.
As for the book cost, I admit it is a huge problem that should be addressed. Honestly, I think most states would be better off writing their own books and self publishing them considering the outrageous cost book publishers want to charge.
As for "<span style="background-color:rgb(241,241,241);line-height:1.231;">And do you really want to defend a system supporting 10-year-old textbooks that were out-of -date the day the were printed?"</span>
<span style="line-height:1.231;"> Are you really going to argue that elementary school math, science, history, and english textbooks are going to be out-of-date in ten years? Do grammar rules change, does arithmetic change? Science does change, but the basics don't change that often. History.... well that happened in the past, sure new theories come up, but again that is stuff that tends to impact higher levels (like college). The one thing that will change somewhat is geography. However, how much world geography is taught in elementary school? Kids learn the continents, and (in the US) tend to learn the states and their capitals. They might learn about geographic features (oceans, seas, mountains, lakes, etc), and some countries, but any map of the world's countries is going to have inaccuracies (at the bare minimum, the most up to date map will contain disputed areas on it). Elementary school kids aren't being taught the names of the countries that are constantly changing, and if they are it's not a huge deal that the map in the book is outdated. The only thing I can think that the book will lack is current events... Things like who is the president, etc. But again, this is changing often, and is easily handled without a book. So what exactly is the HUGE deal with using 10 year old text books (and how will buying digital text books prevent books from becoming outdated)?</span>
"and how will buying digital text books prevent books from becoming outdated"
Digital books are updated all time -- the publisher just submits a revised book to the digital bookstore -- and the updates are made available to all users of that book...
In the Apple ecosystem, updating a textbook is just like updating an app or any other iTunes content.
I want to be careful here... but you do not seem to be seeking facts or solutions... rather than applying a reasoned approach to the subject, you appear to be flailing about -- offering whatever objections come to mind! You pride yourself on having a PHD in Computer Engineering... How about applying a little of the discipline you learned and maybe a little of the "scientific method" to your approach... Just MHO!
I suspect that most students have 1 or 2 periods per week in the computer lab -- usually 2-3 students per computer. While technology may have advanced, I don't think its limited use can be blamed for test scores. Possibly, low standards, teacher salaries, the NEA, tenure, etc. have more to do with it!
"and how will buying digital text books prevent books from becoming outdated"
Digital books are updated all time -- the publisher just submits a revised book to the digital bookstore -- and the updates are made available to all users of that book...
In the Apple ecosystem, updating a textbook is just like updating an app or any other iTunes content.
I want to be careful here... but you do not seem to be seeking facts or solutions... rather than applying a reasoned approach to the subject, you appear to be flailing about -- offering whatever objections come to mind! You pride yourself on having a PHD in Computer Engineering... How about applying a little of the discipline you learned and maybe a little of the "scientific method" to your approach... Just MHO!
Dick, you're spot on here. I don't mean to be rude to Phil...but one of the problems with American Education is too many PHD's. I don't know why they don't just "copy" a successful system...Like the English, or Canadians or Koreans (very rigorous, BTW). We seem to have the haphazard approach and change it every couple of years. Hey, here's idea, copy the curriculum of the American Jesuit private schools. Just do that.
First, we need to address the issues facing our education system's miserable results, but giving them more distractions is unlikely to be the answer. As technology has matured, scores in schools have gone down... Doesn't seem like the lack of technology access is responsible for this.
I want to address the issue of technology as a distraction to education...
It can be a distraction, but it can provide just the opposite effect!
Here's an anecdotal experience:
My company, Computer Plus, Inc., installed the first high school computer lab in June of 1980 at Saratoga High School Saratoga, Saratoga, CA.
It consisted of 7 Apple ][ computers , a Corvus 5 MB (yes MegaByte) shared hard disk drive, a Corvus 50-pin flat-cable star LAN network. 6 of the computers were deployed on tables (3 students per table) and each of these had a BW monitor and a Corvus Adapter card (all the program and data files resided on the shared hard disk).. The 7th computer was configured similarly, but additionally had two mini-floppy disk drives (with adapter card) and a Parallel Printer Adapter card that interfaced a Centronics printer.
The project was successfully conceived, funded, launched and managed by Ms Marion Kenworthy, Vice Principal Saratoga High School.
The program was wildly successful * and my company and Apple parlayed that preliminary success into many, many installations.
* We dared not fail as my daughter and Gene Carter's daughter attended Saratoga High School (Gene was VP of Marketing at Apple).
Enough history... Here's the point:
On one of the many tours of the lab -- the kids were doing their "lessons" bouncing around, laughing, telling each other what to do, doing, learning and having fun.
An administrator of another school made a comment that I can still hear today: "It's so nice to see the students engaged, sitting on the edge of their seats -- attentive and participating... rather than leaning back passively".
That's education done right -- nothing else was able to distract them from learning!
In movies, it's called the "lean forward moment" -- where the content [plot] causes you to lean forward and pay attention.
The technology was only the vehicle.
Finally, the iPads have a particular advantage of the standard computers -- you don't need to learn the hardware, the OS, the File System and all the other things that get between you and learning [your stuff]. You can be productive, learning, within minutes -- it's so easy and intuitive that a 4-year-old or a 74-year-old can run with it!
If apple could manage to enter the school system in other states than California, they could move a significant amount of ipads. 640k for LA only, imagine if it becomes the norm in many cities or states.
The upcoming color plastic shells for ipads mini will be better for schools so Apple can compete on prices. Those institutions tend to be very price sensitive.
There is no doubt that Apple will get other states.
Apple will also get other countries. Like this 10.6 Million iPad deal with Turkey.
Meanwhile in Lower Slobgonia Australia the natives get to learn on MS Surfaces... the only place in the world where MS had a "win" at the "lose" of the local kids.
The one thing they will learn is to buy iPads next time... iPads have software.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by gjunkie
I love Apple products. I really do. But This is a waste of money. I have family that works in LAUSD and they'll be the first to tell you that rather than buying iPads for kids, a ton of which will be broken and mistreated, they would rather have school supplies and a proper staff.
My mom's school isn't even able to afford a janitor to clean the bathrooms. The kids themselves avoid using them. But hey, they get iPads! Yay! This is such a great example of ignorance at the top.
Our (very small) school depends on a measure of volunteer help, we're not swimming in cash. Our initial iPad buy looks like it'll break even in comparison with paper textbooks within three years (the school system under which we operate is requiring completely new/different textbooks over the next three years, for one thing). The most surprising thing, for me, has been changes in 5-8 grade students' math studies. They've gone from roughly grade-level work, to about 1/3 of the students moving on to from one to five grades worth advancement, once they were let loose to go at their own speed.
We're in a rural central California area, not LAUSD (yay!), but it definitely shows that it doesn't have to be a waste of money, time and effort.
Quote:
Originally Posted by diplication
Nah. Billy might get beat up, but only for his iPhone - the bullies are given their own iPad as well. Why beat up someone just to get what you already have?
Not all bullies are still in school, and even if they do have their own.... they sell quickly on the street for $50
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveH
Our (very small) school depends on a measure of volunteer help, we're not swimming in cash. Our initial iPad buy looks like it'll break even in comparison with paper textbooks within three years (the school system under which we operate is requiring completely new/different textbooks over the next three years, for one thing). The most surprising thing, for me, has been changes in 5-8 grade students' math studies. They've gone from roughly grade-level work, to about 1/3 of the students moving on to from one to five grades worth advancement, once they were let loose to go at their own speed.
We're in a rural central California area, not LAUSD (yay!), but it definitely shows that it doesn't have to be a waste of money, time and effort.
Thanks for sharing Steve...that's much inline with what I've been reading. My GF is in the special ed field dealing with mildly autistic kids and she is seeing marked improvement when she uses the iPads. Anecdotal, I know, but I don't think I've read anything negative about it.
Now, MS SmartBoards? Ugh! Don't get me started. My GF says, they never work right the first time. She is constantly calling me to ask what to do....I say, "Is it plugged in? OK, restart it!"
Yep. 84 Xoom tablets vs 640,000 iPads. Sounds about right.
Note the decision making process used by the schools in your example. In every case, they were selected by someone who looked solely at initial purchase price. That is a lousy process for choosing technology.
Funny, but my daughter's school had convertible tablets that they purchased for every student - and the breakage rate was a couple percent at most. In fact, I don't recall them ever having to replace any of them. So why would iPads be any different?
Good thing you're not the one making technology decisions. By that standard, schools should never have upgraded from candles to electric lights. And they should never have installed blackboards. Those things were expensive in their day. And white boards are a total waste of money, right?
There are people who are paid to make such decisions based on educational requirements. And technology can help education - as has been shown repeatedly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou
If apple could manage to enter the school system in other states than California, they could move a significant amount of ipads.
Apple is already in schools districts in all 50 states. We only hear about the really big purchases. Where do guys like you come up with this utter nonsense anyway?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkerst
And we all know throwing money at education works right?
Clearly home schooling worked in your favor.
I have a PhD in computer engineering, and now surround myself with computers, and I will be the first to say that computers DO NOT belong in elementary school classrooms. Kids don't learn "valuable computer skills" in the classroom, especially in the younger grades. Many kids are already surrounded by electronic devices, wouldn't it be nice to get them away from it. No matter how advanced computers get, they do not take the place of human interaction. It's hard enough for kids to socialize properly without electronic devices, and now there are countless kids glued to their mobile devices. Encouraging this behavior is not good for anyone.
The real problem with tablets on the desk is that it's too easy to get distracted. I'm sure we've all wasted countless hours (while we should be working etc) on our devices... I'm doing it right now. Letting kids get started at an early age is not a good idea.
Then of course there's the cost issue. An ipad will last what... 3, 4 years? Sure it will get "up to date" content... but what really changes in elementary education in a 10 year period, what about a 20 year period? Most of the changes made to the curriculum haven't been for the better. We have countless kids who can barely read, they can't do simple math without a calculator, they don't know proper grammar, etc... But boy will they have mobile devices!!! While some kids might learn better with tablets, many won't. The truth of the matter is that tablet devices have not been around long enough for scientific studies to show the long term impact on children's growth. Do we really want to experiment with children's education like this?
Most importantly though, I think of school as the one place where kids should be able to ... be kids. Sure, they have to learn and follow the rules, but they shouldn't be chained to computers. They should experience the real world. It's too easy for young kids to become enamored with the virtual world. It's too easy to not physically interact with other kids.
Looking back on my education, computers were starting to be used... I remember going to the computer lab, and what did I learn? I learned to play where in the world is carmen sandiego, I learned to play number munchers and oregon trail. Highly educational, let me tell you. I actually learned more in 7th grade when I took a typing class (on an actual typewriter!) than all the other years of using actual computers in the classroom (with the exception of the two C++ programming courses I took in high school). Even then, I remember educators talking about how wonderful having the computers was, how much it would help students learn, etc... It just didn't work. With the exception of limited computer use in special classes (like programming, or typing, office skills etc) which tend to focus on middle and high school students, the computers haven't helped, they've just distracted kids from more important things (reading, writing, math, science).
On top of all this, there's the cost. While it's arguably cheaper than text books, I don't really see that. Schools tend to keep text books long past the time they need to be replaced. 5-10 years seems about right, by which point they're pretty beaten up. An ipad simply own't last that long, and there's no way the book publishers are going to charge significantly less for an ebook than a real book... Especially when they realize school districts can keep their ebooks forever, so they won't have a constant money making scheme (the vast majority of the cost of paper books is not the paper or manufacturing...). They'll likely go to subscription schemes, that way they make money indefinitely.
Phil
I'll tell you what. I'll ask the people who are experts in elementary education not to tell you how to design a computer if you'll agree not to try to tell them how to run a classroom.
Do you think the decision to spend $400 M was made on a whim? Have you read any of the examples of how computers have contributed significantly to educational results? Or the ones where iPads, in particular, have improved results significantly (including one example in this thread)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
I'll tell you what. I'll ask the people who are experts in elementary education not to tell you how to design a computer if you'll agree not to try to tell them how to run a classroom.
Do you think the decision to spend $400 M was made on a whim? Have you read any of the examples of how computers have contributed significantly to educational results? Or the ones where iPads, in particular, have improved results significantly (including one example in this thread)?
If you read what i said later, I said that mobile devices haven't been around long enough to show that they positively impact student learning. While there might be isolated studies showing it in certain circumstances, there haven't been studies on students constantly using their devices.
Now, while proving that mobile devices can help is a harder task than showing that they can distract. For instance http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/students-cant-resist-distraction-two-minutes-neither-can-you-1C9984270 quotes research done showing just how distracting these devices are, mostly at college students, but considering the average kids attention span, I imagine the results are worse for elementary school kids (also see http://learning.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/02/are-you-distracted-by-technology/?_r=0 and i'm sure a simple google search will find more). With a book on your desk you might flip ahead and read other (unrelated) material to distract yourself, but with an ipad, the student has the entire internet to distract them. Don't pretend that they won't be distracted by that. I learned that for most of my homework I was far better off doing it in the study lounge where I didn't have my computer to distract me (this was before smart phones). Although I'm just one example, I know I'm not alone, many kids study in the library for the same reason: there are fewer distractions.
I'd argue that the distractions alone are reason enough to stick to real books and avoid ebooks. I've read books on my ipad in the past, and I found the temptation to check every little thing distracting . . . And this was while reading fiction books that I WANTED to read, I couldn't imagine trying to read an actual textbook on there!
Phil
Except they are not teaching "commuter skills" they are teaching match, english, history, geography, responsibility, research, study, drill and practice, organization, presentation, creative skills and social skills
It is a simple matter to control what is available on the devices and when -- if you do some research [hint Fraser Speirs iPad Project] you will find that the iPads are much more engaging (less distractive) than almost any other classroom tool.
I mentioned in an earlier post that the iPad costs 2%-6% (or less) of the cost-per-pupil of today's US education system. I estimated that the Pads would be replaced every 2 years.
Can we risk not addressing the miserable education results with the current system?
Mmmm...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmen_Sandiego
It appears that some of the educational software you used was so good that you didn't even know you were learning...
Asked and answered above... The "book" cost is much more than the price of the books themselves... there is expensive warehousing and distribution time (library, classroom, teacher time) that can be better spent on actual education!
And do you really want to defend a system supporting 10-year-old textbooks that were out-of -date the day the were printed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Except they are not teaching "commuter skills" they are teaching match, english, history, geography, responsibility, research, study, drill and practice, organization, presentation, creative skills and social skills
It is a simple matter to control what is available on the devices and when -- if you do some research [hint Fraser Speirs iPad Project] you will find that the iPads are much more engaging (less distractive) than almost any other classroom tool.
I mentioned in an earlier post that the iPad costs 2%-6% (or less) of the cost-per-pupil of today's US education system. I estimated that the Pads would be replaced every 2 years.
Can we risk not addressing the miserable education results with the current system?
Mmmm...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmen_Sandiego
It appears that some of the educational software you used was so good that you didn't even know you were learning...
Asked and answered above... The "book" cost is much more than the price of the books themselves... there is expensive warehousing and distribution time (library, classroom, teacher time) that can be better spent on actual education!
And do you really want to defend a system supporting 10-year-old textbooks that were out-of -date the day the were printed?
First, we need to address the issues facing our education system's miserable results, but giving them more distractions is unlikely to be the answer. As technology has matured, scores in schools have gone down... Doesn't seem like the lack of technology access is responsible for this.
As for carmen sandiego.. .I'll admit I learned some from it, I won't pretend I didn't, HOWEVER the fact is I would have learned FAR more had I spent the same amount of time in a traditional classroom setting. If that's the case the education software was not so good that I didn't know I was learning...It was just a game that taught a few things. You can learn a lot from some games, or watching certain TV shows, but I wouldn't recommend replacing all traditional teaching methods with games and TV.
As for the book cost, I admit it is a huge problem that should be addressed. Honestly, I think most states would be better off writing their own books and self publishing them considering the outrageous cost book publishers want to charge.
As for "And do you really want to defend a system supporting 10-year-old textbooks that were out-of -date the day the were printed?" Are you really going to argue that elementary school math, science, history, and english textbooks are going to be out-of-date in ten years? Do grammar rules change, does arithmetic change? Science does change, but the basics don't change that often. History.... well that happened in the past, sure new theories come up, but again that is stuff that tends to impact higher levels (like college). The one thing that will change somewhat is geography. However, how much world geography is taught in elementary school? Kids learn the continents, and (in the US) tend to learn the states and their capitals. They might learn about geographic features (oceans, seas, mountains, lakes, etc), and some countries, but any map of the world's countries is going to have inaccuracies (at the bare minimum, the most up to date map will contain disputed areas on it). Elementary school kids aren't being taught the names of the countries that are constantly changing, and if they are it's not a huge deal that the map in the book is outdated. The only thing I can think that the book will lack is current events... Things like who is the president, etc. But again, this is changing often, and is easily handled without a book. So what exactly is the HUGE deal with using 10 year old text books (and how will buying digital text books prevent books from becoming outdated)?
Phil
Apparently you missed my earlier post about the results of a 3-year experience (arguably better than an abstract study)!
Here it is again -- do a little research and you will find that [most of] the issues you raise have been addressed and resolved -- or were non-issues. For your convenience, I have highlighted various points in blue:
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iPad Disaster Recovery in Institutional Model Deployments
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eBooks as Tools
We Need to Talk About Android
Driving the Classroom with iTunes U
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Something Very Special and Very Historically Different
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Hire Me?
iOS Multitasking in Detail
The Answer is in the Question
New Ways to Read Speirs.org
Misconceptions About iOS Multitasking
Farewell, Paper Books
Three Mantras from the First Two Years
Beth on Brushes
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A Week With iOS 5
A Supercomputer in Every Backpack
Profile Manager in Practice
Lion Server, MDM and a New Philosophy of Client Management
Thoughts from the Classroom on WWDC
A Web-to-Evernote Workflow that Works Everywhere
Too Early to Tell
It's just getting started
A Workable Model for sub-1:1 iPad Use
iPad Trials at Oklahoma State
On eBook Pricing
iPad in Education Networking Event
Technology for Excellence 2011 Conference
How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Dematerialisation of Educational Technology
Stop Lying
iPad as Digital Whiteboard
The Next-Generation Classroom AV System
Apple Distinguished Educator
Louise Duncan on the ACU Connected Summit
ACU Connected Summit on iTunes U
The iPad Project on Tour
Some Thoughts from the Classroom on iPad 2
The "Mingled Content" Model of App Deployment
On the Rapid End-Of-Lifing of Android Devices
How the iPad Wants to be Used
The New York Times and Justifying the iPad
App Management and Sync
Accessibility on the iPad in Schools
Rolling Out iPad 4.2
What's Next for the iPad Project?
On Strategy
iPads, Curriculum for Excellence and the Next Generation
Run What Ya Brung
iPad Apps for Secondary
iPad Apps for Primary
The Invisible Computing Teacher
The Accoutrements of Computing
The iPad Project: How It's Going
Upcoming Events
The iPad Project: On Battery Life
The iPad Project: Bits, Pieces and Q&A
The iPad Project: Apple Remote iPad
The iPad Project: MacVoices
The iPad Project: What Kind of Day Has It Been?
The iPad Project: The Night Before Christmas
The iPad Project - Paper is Heavy, but eBooks weigh me down.
The iPad Project: Day Twelve - Guns, Butter and Apps
Contacting Me
The iPad Project: Day Eleven - Identity Crisis
Snow Leopard hidden gem: volume limiter
On the App Store Volume Purchase Program
The iPad Project: Day Nine - This Will Kill That .... somehow.
The iPad Project: Day Eight - The Wake Up Call
The iPad Project: Day Seven - Take Out The Trash Day
The iPad Project: Day Six - The Hamiltonian Cycle
The iPad Project: Day Five
The iPad Project: Day Four - Activate the iPad!
The iPad Project: Day Three - End of an Era, and DRM Hell
The iPad Project: Day Two
The iPad Project: Day One
Moving a Mac App: Viewfinder for iPad
International Apple Store Codes
Review: Nomadic Wise Walker Backpack
Using Instruments to Learn About NSCache
The iPhone 4 Grip of Death
World Cup Tracker Spreadsheet
Of 3G iPads and MiFis
Back In
iPad, Two Weeks In
A School Day with the iPad
Everything Changes
Caring For The Code
Basecamp Best Practices
Apple Boots out the Booty
£24m School Can't Get Its WiFi Working
Apple Ships Aperture 3
DHH Gets Some Entertainment
A Distributed Phalanx of Tablets
iPad Fallacy #1: "It's not for content creation"
The Status Quo is Leaving the Building
Insecure at Any Speed
Introducing iPad4Edu.com
Apple Reversing Policy on Smut Apps?
Future Shock
The Polycarbonate-Aluminium Boundary
Why so long?
iPod touch in School
The Apple Soft Porn Store
On Magazines
Carbon: The Technology Thought Impossible
Apple's Technical Feats of the Decade
2010 Clearout: Obsolete Mac OS X Installers
A Brief Review of the GBoard
Geek Western Song
HFS Promise Drags from IKImageBrowserView
Manger Chic
Be Your Own Cloud
On Ruby Leadership
Like working on an airplane, booting computers in a hurry is not something we really do
The Weekly Review as an OmniFocus Project
The App Store as "Essential Facility"
We Are All Lech Wa??sa Now
The Road to Viewfinder 1.0
Squarespace iPhone App
First Impressions of the International Kindle from a UK Owner
Finding the Time: Perspective
Finding the Time, Part 2: Respect Your Energy
Finding the Time, Part 1: No TV, No Console
Brilliant Tax Meme
Reflections on dConstruct 2009
Using HardwareGrowler for Aperture card-erase notifications
Upcoming Speaking and Listening Engagements
On my iPhone
Numbers on OS and hardware combinations from FlickrExport.
Making Changes
Understanding Git Submodules
NSConference, Day One
Git pre-commit hooks and the Clang Static Analyzer
Get Out of Your Subculture
The Devalued Prime Minister of a Devalued Government
iPhone OS 3.0 Wishlist
Zi6 Sample: Rangers vs. AC Milan
One Hundred Meeeelioooonnnn Photos
Drobo Saga: The Resolution
Forevernote
Drobo Saga: Part 2
On the Flickr support in iPhoto '09
Darkslide Premium gets four mice from Macworld
Drobo: Its Part In My Downfall
Videography
Down Memory Lane: Macs I Have Known And Occasionally Loved
Upcoming Conferences
The Joy of Travel Planning
2009 Tweedictions
Darkslide 1.5 Post-Mortem
Recent Media Appearances: Mac Developer Roundtable
Scotland The Best
Hidden Internet: Delicious Network
My Life, as seen through the Ghostbusters franchise
There is More Than One Mobile Context
Retail Education
Retail Therapy
MacJury Holiday Picks
Sharp. Tack Sharp.
Free Idea: FullScreenKit
Extreme Restraint
MacDev 2009: Integrating with Apple's Photography Ecosystem
Apple Retail Store Field Trip
Could Snow Leopard be free?
Two Macs: Fail.
London
Yet Again: Thanks, Apple!
MacDev 2009
A technique for using UITableView and retaining your sanity
Exposure 1.1 post-mortem
Git: Rebase
Dual Systems and Cameras as Computers
FNDA is now "Former" NDA
Git: Branching and Fast-forward Merging
App Store Reviews: credit where it's due
Git committing workflow with BBEdit
App Store: I'm out.
C4[2] Brain-dump
OmniFocus: My Approach
Hear my MacVoice
Where The Numbers Come From
App Store Review is broken
Demographics Is Destiny
It's Out!
On Switching to Git
Another 1.0.
T-minus-twelve
Keywording in Aperture
MacBook Air, one month on
McBarCamp, anyone?
Media Strategies for a MacBook Air
John Redwood MP: Parliament Finally Detaches From Reality
MacBook Air Out of the Box
Aperture 2 In Use
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Late Night ImageKit
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An analogy for RAM and HDD space
Xcode: Unit Testing Built Products
ScreenFlow: The iTunes of Screencasting
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MacBook Air: 10-second review
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Aperture 2: Migrating to RAW 2.0
Aperture 2: Lens Model Metadata
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Aperture 2 First Impressions
Apple Blogging
Spending other people's money
Living in the Cloud
Politics of Trust
Mac Apps I Desperately Want on the iPhone
MacBook Air as "big iPod"
The BBC Will Decide on Apple
Macworld Reflections
'Twas the Night Before Macworld
Remembering London
Wishes for Aperture 2.0
Organising projects and folders in Aperture.
When I Delete a Photo
My Photo Editing Workflow
The Photographs of 2007
Dopplr and the "so what" of social networking
Check the new shiny
If your proprietary RAW workflow dies
What are XIB files?
On the Lying Chancellor scandal
On the Missing CDs scandal
Paging Bruce Schneier
Grab Shots
To use DRM for good and not for evil
On being asked the Canon vs. Nikon question
T-Mobile Terminations Team vs. iPhone
Shooting in the Dark
On Location
Twitterrific 3
Leopard Report
My Leopard Review
In Praise of Tiger
Edinburgh Castle
iPhone Apps Have to Pay Their Way
On the iPhone SDK
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Going Wide
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The Second Step in Photography
London Eye
April Does London
In The Interests Of....
Abandoned Places
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An Aperture User Looks At Adobe Lightroom
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Second Editions
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The Red Arrows
Screen Annotation Tools
Hard Drive Update
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Acorn from Flying Meat
Colour Management and Printing in Aperture
Colin Prior at the Apple Store
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Coverflow Hater
Lazyweb: London
MarsEdit 2
Fallen
Photoshoot Post Mortem
The Road to FlickrExport 3
Badge of Honour
Apple Store, Glasgow
Cameras as Computers
My iPhone Thoughts
Policy Wars!
The Value of You
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Loch Lomond
Hidden Leopard treasures in iLife '08
The Single Most Annoying Thing About Mac OS X
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Busy, busy.
Racing Days
Mugabe: Nice chap, really.
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Sunrise
Simplicity
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xScope: Not just for the Photoshop jockeys
Living the Kinkless Lifestyle
Codeville Writeup
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A Subversion User Looks at Git - Part 2
Getting git-svn working on the Mac
RSS Subscribing Fixed
Oops: Comments
A Subversion User Looks at Git
Any Amount of Computation is Worth It
Bare Strings Considered Harmful
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Great Holiday
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Sorry for not being clear, I want to know if there's been a 6 figure bulk-order. Not an article about a place where the rolled out 600 tablets, and they're thinking about ordering 1,800 more.
I suspect that most students have 1 or 2 periods per week in the computer lab -- usually 2-3 students per computer. While technology may have advanced, I don't think its limited use can be blamed for test scores. Possibly, low standards, teacher salaries, the NEA, tenure, etc. have more to do with it!
"and how will buying digital text books prevent books from becoming outdated"
Digital books are updated all time -- the publisher just submits a revised book to the digital bookstore -- and the updates are made available to all users of that book...
In the Apple ecosystem, updating a textbook is just like updating an app or any other iTunes content.
I want to be careful here... but you do not seem to be seeking facts or solutions... rather than applying a reasoned approach to the subject, you appear to be flailing about -- offering whatever objections come to mind! You pride yourself on having a PHD in Computer Engineering... How about applying a little of the discipline you learned and maybe a little of the "scientific method" to your approach... Just MHO!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
I suspect that most students have 1 or 2 periods per week in the computer lab -- usually 2-3 students per computer. While technology may have advanced, I don't think its limited use can be blamed for test scores. Possibly, low standards, teacher salaries, the NEA, tenure, etc. have more to do with it!
"and how will buying digital text books prevent books from becoming outdated"
Digital books are updated all time -- the publisher just submits a revised book to the digital bookstore -- and the updates are made available to all users of that book...
In the Apple ecosystem, updating a textbook is just like updating an app or any other iTunes content.
I want to be careful here... but you do not seem to be seeking facts or solutions... rather than applying a reasoned approach to the subject, you appear to be flailing about -- offering whatever objections come to mind! You pride yourself on having a PHD in Computer Engineering... How about applying a little of the discipline you learned and maybe a little of the "scientific method" to your approach... Just MHO!
Dick, you're spot on here. I don't mean to be rude to Phil...but one of the problems with American Education is too many PHD's. I don't know why they don't just "copy" a successful system...Like the English, or Canadians or Koreans (very rigorous, BTW). We seem to have the haphazard approach and change it every couple of years. Hey, here's idea, copy the curriculum of the American Jesuit private schools. Just do that.
Also, BTW, great points, Dick!
I want to address the issue of technology as a distraction to education...
It can be a distraction, but it can provide just the opposite effect!
Here's an anecdotal experience:
My company, Computer Plus, Inc., installed the first high school computer lab in June of 1980 at Saratoga High School Saratoga, Saratoga, CA.
It consisted of 7 Apple ][ computers , a Corvus 5 MB (yes MegaByte) shared hard disk drive, a Corvus 50-pin flat-cable star LAN network. 6 of the computers were deployed on tables (3 students per table) and each of these had a BW monitor and a Corvus Adapter card (all the program and data files resided on the shared hard disk).. The 7th computer was configured similarly, but additionally had two mini-floppy disk drives (with adapter card) and a Parallel Printer Adapter card that interfaced a Centronics printer.
The project was successfully conceived, funded, launched and managed by Ms Marion Kenworthy, Vice Principal Saratoga High School.
The program was wildly successful * and my company and Apple parlayed that preliminary success into many, many installations.
* We dared not fail as my daughter and Gene Carter's daughter attended Saratoga High School (Gene was VP of Marketing at Apple).
Enough history... Here's the point:
On one of the many tours of the lab -- the kids were doing their "lessons" bouncing around, laughing, telling each other what to do, doing, learning and having fun.
An administrator of another school made a comment that I can still hear today: "It's so nice to see the students engaged, sitting on the edge of their seats -- attentive and participating... rather than leaning back passively".
That's education done right -- nothing else was able to distract them from learning!
In movies, it's called the "lean forward moment" -- where the content [plot] causes you to lean forward and pay attention.
The technology was only the vehicle.
Finally, the iPads have a particular advantage of the standard computers -- you don't need to learn the hardware, the OS, the File System and all the other things that get between you and learning [your stuff]. You can be productive, learning, within minutes -- it's so easy and intuitive that a 4-year-old or a 74-year-old can run with it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou
If apple could manage to enter the school system in other states than California, they could move a significant amount of ipads. 640k for LA only, imagine if it becomes the norm in many cities or states.
The upcoming color plastic shells for ipads mini will be better for schools so Apple can compete on prices. Those institutions tend to be very price sensitive.
There is no doubt that Apple will get other states.
Apple will also get other countries. Like this 10.6 Million iPad deal with Turkey.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/05/20/prime-minister-visits-apple-hq-as-turkey-ponders-106m-tablet-buy-for-education
Time will tell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkerst
And we all know throwing money at education works right?
It didn't work in your case... read the frickin last paragraph, including the link.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007
There is no doubt that Apple will get other states.
Apple will also get other countries. Like this 10.6 Million iPad deal with Turkey.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/05/20/prime-minister-visits-apple-hq-as-turkey-ponders-106m-tablet-buy-for-education
Time will tell.
Meanwhile in Lower Slobgonia Australia the natives get to learn on MS Surfaces... the only place in the world where MS had a "win" at the "lose" of the local kids.
The one thing they will learn is to buy iPads next time... iPads have software.