FileMaker discontinuing Bento, will remain available to buy through Sept. 30

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 82


    G Q B , you probably know about major hits like Evernote, Salesforce, Twitter, Facebook, and more are all databases, with varying degrees of client, server (and "cloud") tech. Consumers can't (dont' care) to see how the client and server's work together, but wether the clients is delivered to the desktop via javascript, C++, Objective C, or whatever, the rapid development tools and path to delivery for developers will always be on the desktop.


    It's great that more users are organizing their data on desktops and smaller devices, and that they don't have to worry about the "client software".


    FileMaker's development tools and clients are pretty flexible. The DB Clients can be a mixture of mobile, desktop, multiple OSes, and web browsers. It's pretty great. Actually, it's a GREAT strength of the platform. You might want to check it out. 


    Its pretty interesting that Apple delivered all the iPhone developer tools only on MacOSX. At first I thought that this would hamper that platform, but it doesn't. Developing Apps on Mac OSX for delivery to iOS devices has been a huge success and helped quality.

    just a few pennies.


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GQB View Post


    Well first of all, you have no idea of my background. 20 years in IT, so stuff it.


    Every example you give are essentially enterprise, and usually cloud-based, solutions. Databases on desktops are what I was refering to. Please read, and you'll see that you made my point for me.


  • Reply 22 of 82


    I think GQB was referring to massive user-base, consumer sites.

    He may not realize that there is also a big need for custom knowledge-worker driven databases that provide big features for these teams. FielMaker is great, but he may not realize that these custom solutions can scale up to a larger number of users and multiple OSe, pretty well.



    Though I wouldn't want to develop a Instagram.com site with it. 

     


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by longterm View Post


     


    Huh?


     


    You're totally wrong.


     


    I did NOT say that they're all cloud solutions. In fact, about 90% of the solutions that I write are NOT cloud solutions, but FileMaker's ability to use a desktop solution as ALSO a cloud solution is just another of its many superior qualities.


     


    "Stuff it?" Your clear lack of knowledge of the subject is seeping out. Try making cogent arguments instead of showing your lack thereof.


     


    I've written literally dozens of solutions for companies of every size--single-owner, small-business, corporations, tourist attractions, large universities all over the U.S., financial institutions, non-profit groups, clubs, stores, web concerns. I've written configuration solutions for companies that make backup generators, water pumps, musical equipment road cases, and on and on.


     


    If you knew anything at all about FileMaker, you would know that its chief use is on desktops, laptops, and now iOS devices. 


     


    If you knew anything about how databases are used, you would know that virtually every business concern in the world uses either spreadsheets or databases, and in most cases these days, databases; inventory solutions everywhere use databases to keep track of things. For that matter, financial apps like Quicken are nothing more than frontends for databases. 


     


    Saying that you're in IT, and then saying that spreadsheets and databases are dead, is simply idiotic. 


  • Reply 23 of 82
    boeyc15boeyc15 Posts: 986member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by longterm View Post

     

    Huh?

     

    You're totally wrong.

     

    I did NOT say that they're all cloud solutions. In fact, about 90% of the solutions that I write are NOT cloud solutions, but FileMaker's ability to use a desktop solution as ALSO a cloud solution is just another of its many superior qualities.

     

    "Stuff it?" Your clear lack of knowledge of the subject is seeping out. Try making cogent arguments instead of showing your lack thereof.

     

    I've written literally dozens of solutions for companies of every size--single-owner, small-business, corporations, tourist attractions, large universities all over the U.S., financial institutions, non-profit groups, clubs, stores, web concerns. I've written configuration solutions for companies that make backup generators, water pumps, musical equipment road cases, and on and on.

     

    If you knew anything at all about FileMaker, you would know that its chief use is on desktops, laptops, and now iOS devices. 

     

    If you knew anything about how databases are used, you would know that virtually every business concern in the world uses either spreadsheets or databases, and in most cases these days, databases; inventory solutions everywhere use databases to keep track of things. For that matter, financial apps like Quicken are nothing more than frontends for databases. 

     

    Saying that you're in IT, and then saying that spreadsheets and databases are dead, is simply idiotic. 

     

    Please re-read his orignal post. IMO - His point/theme was for the average user, which is the vast majority of computer users(non business) , these "vast majority"of users are not going to write there own database/app when there is 'an app for that' or hire a 'truck' like yourself to create one for them..
  • Reply 24 of 82
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,835member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by John.B View Post


     


    Does FileMaker Go 12 have Bento's integration with OSX Contacts?



     


    No.


     


    FIlemaker is on its 12th version and still can't interact with Contacts and Calendar.


     


    Furthermore, whilst it is true that it is updated every year. It still doesn't 'feel' as modern as the iWork apps.


     


    If killing Bento gets Filemaker down to $99. it will be worth it, but long term Apple needs to figure out how to integrate the software better with its other offerings.


    As it stands, there's no obvious integration with Contacts/Calendar, Pages, Numbers, Keynote, or Final Cut.


     


    Databases are still necessary in almost every serious business project.

  • Reply 25 of 82
    I'm surprised so many are cheering Bento's demise. It wasn't the best, but it was easy to use and had an easy sync between phone and computer. The replacement isn't only expensive, it's a professional program for database folks, and offers no real connectivity between devices. Even looking the FM pages today, it's all about "This the solution for your business". Why exactly is this big business software going to be a good solution for my mom that just wants to keep basic information in something more than a text file or an XL spreadsheet... (Yes, FM Go is free, but you can't use it standalone...

    Rather than kicking people to the cub, it would have been nice if they followed photoshop elements model - have a cheaper easier to use stripped down product (Filemaker, not Pro?). FMP is way too expensive. Even if they gave it to Bento folks for free, we'd get hit with a nice $200 upgrade price within a year anyways. Maybe Evernote will step in with a more database like product...
  • Reply 26 of 82
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GQB View Post


    Databases on desktops are what I was refering to.



    I agree, file based desktop databases such as MS Access are sort of obsolete.


     


    I think Filemaker is subsisting on people who have already invested in custom FMP solutions and update with each version. I doubt there is a very strong new adopter factor. I haven't used it for more than a decade. I can't recall the last version I had but it was the one that first implemented some proprietary web page hooks but it was slow. Back then, at least, it wasn't even SQL based. Not sure what it uses now but if it is not SQL then it is pretty useless for any commercial applications. Database abstraction is the only way to go now days. With Mysql being free and ubiquitous, unless you are a bank or a research institute of some sort that needs Oracle, I can't see using anything else but Mysql. I guess Windows people can take advantage of MSSQL too but that certainly isn't free.

  • Reply 27 of 82
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post



    Apple needs to figure out how to integrate the software better with its other offerings.


    Apple uses SQLite for several applications on OS X such as Mail, Address book, Safari and Aperture. SQLite is also built into iOS as well.

  • Reply 28 of 82
    toysandmetoysandme Posts: 243member
    "I don't know what you mean by "burning from the last time." When has FileMaker burned you before?"

    He may have been referring to Appleworks.
  • Reply 29 of 82
    longtermlongterm Posts: 80member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by John.B View Post


     


    Does FileMaker Go 12 have Bento's integration with OSX Contacts?



    Yes; I use it every day.

  • Reply 30 of 82
    longtermlongterm Posts: 80member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post


     


    No.


     


    FIlemaker is on its 12th version and still can't interact with Contacts and Calendar.


     


    Furthermore, whilst it is true that it is updated every year. It still doesn't 'feel' as modern as the iWork apps.


     


    If killing Bento gets Filemaker down to $99. it will be worth it, but long term Apple needs to figure out how to integrate the software better with its other offerings.


    As it stands, there's no obvious integration with Contacts/Calendar, Pages, Numbers, Keynote, or Final Cut.


     


    Databases are still necessary in almost every serious business project.



     


    Wrong. Look at all the solutions put forth by Seedcode, for example, or the ability to interact with the Contacts app using a plugin from Productive Computing.




    The strength of FileMaker lies in its ability to be extendable in all sorts of ways, not the least of which are its integration with contact apps, calendars (including Google's calendar), an endless # of web tools like Google's mapping solutions, and on and on.

  • Reply 31 of 82
    longtermlongterm Posts: 80member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post


     

    Please re-read his orignal post. IMO - His point/theme was for the average user, which is the vast majority of computer users(non business) , these "vast majority"of users are not going to write there own database/app when there is 'an app for that' or hire a 'truck' like yourself to create one for them..


     


    No, here's what he said: 


     


    "And the applications you write with such tools tend to be REALLY crappy compared to point solutions in the form of real apps."


     


    First wrong thing that he said.


     


    "You could never write a calorie/exercise tracking app a tenth as good as LoseIt using a spreadsheet or database."


     


    Second wrong thing that he said.


     


    "I truly believe that for the vast majority of users, spreadsheets and database have passed into horse and buggy land faster then we ever could have expected."


     


    So I guess Amazon, Fedex, UPS and every other database-using company is in the horse-and-buggy era.


     


     


    I write solutions for small companies all the time; it doesn't take much money to write your own database and then have a developer step in and enhance it; I see this every day.


     


    What really irritates me is when someone who knows just enough to make inaccurate and misleading statements does so in a public forum. Having written both huge and small systems for companies of all sizes, I know that FileMaker's strength (as well as the strength of other database development environments) lies in the ability of the end-user to develop a solution that works well.


     


    To take this a step further: just because anyone can develop an iOS app doesn't mean that they're all great, or that they're all lousy. I've seen both, and it would be absurd to make a blanket claim that because there are lots of badly-coded iOS apps, I should then assume that they're all bad or outmoded.


     


    As to databases or spreadsheets being outdated or "in the horse-and-buggy era," that's just stupid. I talk with companies every day, and although I don't use spreadsheets, almost every client I work with uses spreadsheets on a daily basis. Look at Microsoft's sales of Excel: are they suffering? Hardly.


     

  • Reply 32 of 82
    General DB works great for me and is less expensive, very capable and powerful. There's also a Mac version and a free reader: Private DB. Better than Bento for my purposes
  • Reply 33 of 82
    longtermlongterm Posts: 80member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post


     


    No.


     


    FIlemaker is on its 12th version and still can't interact with Contacts and Calendar.


     


    Furthermore, whilst it is true that it is updated every year. It still doesn't 'feel' as modern as the iWork apps.


     


    If killing Bento gets Filemaker down to $99. it will be worth it, but long term Apple needs to figure out how to integrate the software better with its other offerings.


    As it stands, there's no obvious integration with Contacts/Calendar, Pages, Numbers, Keynote, or Final Cut.


     


    Databases are still necessary in almost every serious business project.



     


    Several thoughts:


     


    1. It does integrate with Contacts and Calendar; there are several ways to do this. Out of the box it doesn't, but there are tons of plugins for FileMaker that extend its capabilities in many directions. 


     


    Here are just a few that come to mind: 


    Full SMTP integration for sending complex emails;


    FTP/SFTP abilities


    Ability to use PHP from within FileMaker (opening up tons of possibilities);


    Ability to use existing web technologies (like Google Maps, for example) in amazing ways; a cool example of this is to use a map with geolocations displayed on the map using pins, pulled from the database.


    Using HTML for complex dynamic reporting, like n-width crosstab reports;


    Deep integration with Google Calendar and its contacts app.


     


    The list goes on and on an...


     


    2. While Apple Inc. *owns* FileMaker, it is a totally separate company; FileMaker Inc. is managed and run separately, and Apple doesn't dictate how it's developed or updated. 


     


    3. As to an integration with Final Cut, I'm not sure what anyone would want that for; as it stands today, FileMaker is already used by big studios to catalog movie production.


     


    4. FileMaker *does* integrate with Numbers; it can export or import from Numbers files if they're saved as XLS or XLSX files (which are the most common spreadsheet formats).


     


    5. Last thought: when you say that FileMaker doesn't "feel" like modern iWork apps, what version are you basing that on? FileMaker 12 introduced CSS-based layouts, and I fully anticipate that FileMaker 13 will introduce the ability for users to create their own CSS-based layout templates. 


     


    I live in FileMaker every day, and am certified in 3 (soon to be 4) different versions; having spent thousands of hours with it, I know its capabilities. Off the shelf it's a bit misleading because it's easy to write simple little databases that don't do much, but just like any development environment, it can go as far as a user's ability to use it. After all, a hammer can be used to build a house, but it can also be used to put a nail up to hang a picture. 

  • Reply 34 of 82
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,835member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by longterm View Post


     


    Wrong. Look at all the solutions put forth by Seedcode, for example, or the ability to interact with the Contacts app using a plugin from Productive Computing.




    The strength of FileMaker lies in its ability to be extendable in all sorts of ways, not the least of which are its integration with contact apps, calendars (including Google's calendar), an endless # of web tools like Google's mapping solutions, and on and on.



     


    I'm fully aware of the third party plug-ins that are available. I'm referring to out-of-the-box capability.


     


    However you slice it organizationally, this is Apple's software.


    Having to rely on a third party plug-in to interface with Contacts and Calendar is ridiculous.

  • Reply 35 of 82
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,835member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by longterm View Post


    I live in FileMaker every day, and am certified in 3 (soon to be 4) different versions; having spent thousands of hours with it, I know its capabilities. Off the shelf it's a bit misleading because it's easy to write simple little databases that don't do much, but just like any development environment, it can go as far as a user's ability to use it. After all, a hammer can be used to build a house, but it can also be used to put a nail up to hang a picture. 



     


    I use it daily as well. It's good software, and version 12 did give the interface a more modern look.


     


    But as you imply, much of its power is available to pros only. That's considerable different for the other iWork apps.


     


    If (just for the sake of argument) Apple were to bundle Filemaker with the iWork apps the same way MS does with Office, are you telling me that users wouldn't be able to pick out Filemaker as the odd package out?


     


    It is hard to nail down exactly, but something about Filemaker makes it "less approachable" than the other iWork apps.


    This didn't seem to be as much of a problem with the database app in AppleWorks.


     


    Maybe databases are just complex beasts and that's the way it is.


     


    But Apple's rep is built on interface design. If anyone can make complex database creation approachable, it's Cupertino.

  • Reply 36 of 82
    longtermlongterm Posts: 80member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post


     


    I'm fully aware of the third party plug-ins that are available. I'm referring to out-of-the-box capability.


     


    However you slice it organizationally, this is Apple's software.


    Having to rely on a third party plug-in to interface with Contacts and Calendar is ridiculous.



     


    Sorry, but I just don't agree with you at all.


     


    FileMaker is NOT produced by Apple, and its development team is totally separate from Apple's. There is no cross-pollination going on there.


     


    Second, you said that having to rely on third-party plugins is ridiculous; I've used digital recording software since its inception--the same software that is used to produce virtually every CD available on the market today. The most ubiquitous of these, ProTools, uses plugins; without plugins no professional studio would be able to use it to get the results that they get.


     


    There are countless examples of software that relies on external developers to make it as robust as end-users expect it to be. A prime example would be the computer I'm typing on, and every other computer made; it doesn't come with everything that we need, but by assembling tools from various sources, we make it do what we need it to do.


     


    The same can be said for FileMaker; while it is amazingly powerful on its own, with NO plugins, there are some functions that it doesn't (yet) provide, and these have been ably created by smart third-party developers who add value to an already-great platform. 


     


    Here's a case in point: I wrote a huge solution that runs every facet of two tourist venues; these venues generate millions of dollars in revenue every year, and the entire company is run using FileMaker for almost everything. 


     


    In the solution I use TWO plugins to get everything done; one allows us to process credit cards, and the 2nd is only used for complex reporting on a few machines. Everything else is done with out-of-the-box FileMaker scripting, and it's a huge solution comprised of hundreds of screens and millions of data records.


     


    A final thought: this same database is used to power a dozen different web applications, which communicate in real-time with FileMaker; the web apps include inquiry forms, H/R application forms, contest forms, four different ticketing apps (2 for smartphones), and more that I'm forgetting at the moment. 

  • Reply 37 of 82
    brlawyerbrlawyer Posts: 828member


    Never understood what Bento was for in the first place - good riddance then.

  • Reply 38 of 82
    nbiquitynbiquity Posts: 12member


    They never looked like slick native apps. 


     


    Partly because FM is a multi platform database, they had to abstract the graphics UI layer - also other compromises seemed to made the client and the DBs always look like a Windows 95 app (my opinion). 


     


     


    Thankfully, FM 12 really moved the interface forward. The FM themes make DBs look much better, though not really like native OSX or Windows. But at this point there are still a lot of "FileMakery" legacy items to worry about. What would a total rewrite look like? Hmmm 


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post


     


    It is hard to nail down exactly, but something about Filemaker makes it "less approachable" than the other iWork apps.


    This didn't seem to be as much of a problem with the database app in AppleWorks.


     


     


  • Reply 39 of 82
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    popnfresh wrote: »
    Apple has decided that this is in keeping with their post-Steve corporate philosophy of innovating as little as possible, while litigating as often as possible. And seeing as no one was suing or being sued over Bento, it was obviously time to kick it to the curb.

    How about you pop'n'shutup?
    kenaustus wrote: »
    Maybe they can just sell it to Apple for $1, get Apple to clean it up a bit and add it to iWork.

    FileMaker IS Apple.
  • Reply 40 of 82

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by longterm View Post


     


    Sorry, but I just don't agree with you at all.



     


    longterm,


     


    I agree with everything you've written. See you at FileMaker DevCon in San Diego my friend!

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